Okay. Whilst reading some of the OWC scripts it occurred to me that some of the scripts I read were horror not drama and I pointed that out in two of my posts. However, the posts that followed mine more or less disputed what I said. One person basically said it doesn't matter if people stick to the genre or not and the other said that drama isn't a genre. Well, first of all, I think it does matter if people haven’t stuck to the genre, because if nobody stuck to the genre then it would be pointless nominating one. Secondly, it has always been my understanding that drama is a genre.

What do you guys think?      

You already know my views on this, this is from wikipedia...

Quoted Text A drama film is a film that depends mostly on in-depth character development, interaction, and highly emotional themes. Many people say that in a good drama film, the audience is able to experience what other characters are feeling and identify with someone.

This goes along with what i have already thought Drama to be, anything that is a dramatized enactment of a written work. For instance 'Drama class" is where you are taught to act. I have always thought that whether a movie, TV or a play is a performance of a script then it is drama regardless of the genre.

But also on the wiki is the following that would suggest that Drama is also a genre, But like the DVD stores that have a drama section I think that drama has only become a genre because it is a good way of pinholing a movie that may not be easily classified as a Horror, or Thriller or Love story etc...

For instance the 'Political Drama' is missing from the list below, I bet you could think of a 100 different drama's that are missing from the list below. Is 'The Shining' a horror film or is it a scary drama film? I think there is a very thin line there.

Quoted Text Dramatic Films include a very large spectrum of films. Because of the large number of drama films, these movies have been sub-categorized: War drama - Character development set in War theme. Legal drama (Courtroom drama) - Character development in fictional court cases. Erotic drama - Character development focused on sexuality and sexual encounters. Sports drama - Character development based on sports Crime drama - Character development based on themes such as the Police or the Mafia. Historical drama - Films that focus on historical pasts. Biographical film - Films that focus on true stories of real people. All film genres can include dramatic elements, such as comedies, action films, and horror movies, but typically, films considered drama films focus mainly on the drama of the main issue.

Drama is absolutely a genre and I agree that not sticking to the genre is a cop out (in fact it makes the script looks like it was written before the OWC and then tweeked a bit to match the given situation).

Quoted from sniper Drama is absolutely a genre and I agree that not sticking to the genre is a cop out (in fact it makes the script looks like it was written before the OWC and then tweeked a bit to match the given situation).

But how do you decide what a drama is then Sniper? If a script is a horror does that mean it cannot be a drama?

Quoted Text drama films focus mainly on the drama of the main issue.

So if the main issue is a serial killer who likes to carve his initials into his victims then it is a horror and cannot be a drama, but it the main issue is a vandal who likes to carve his initials into bus stops then it can be a drama?

What many people seem to do with drama is assign it to a movie that does not easily fit into a drama, so in reality Drama is not a genre but is actually an anti-genre!

Even if we are going down the drama is a genre route then we need to judge each script on it's own merits. So if a horror script is just torture porn and empty headed shocks for thrills then I will buy into what you say and agree it should not be classed as a drama.

But a horror about a killer who is having conversations with his alter-ego's or voices in his head* is totally focussed on the drama, it is a character led piece and therefore how can it not be a drama? Of course it is drama.

* This was started by a comment on the thread for Repetition.

Every movie/script must have drama as an element in order to work. A "true" drama piece rarely focuses on horror/action/comedy/thriller etc. elements. Sure, those elements could be present in a drama but never as a focus point in respect of screen time.

Take movies like Glengarry Glen Ross, A Few Good Men or The Contender to name but a few. In all those movies the narrative is focused solely on the drama. I just couldn't picture myself calling them anything but drama, though I'm sure you could sub-categorize every movie into whatever fits your temper.

Quoted from sniper Every movie/script must have drama as an element in order to work. A "true" drama piece rarely focuses on horror/action/comedy/thriller etc. elements. Sure, those elements could be present in a drama but never as a focus point in respect of screen time. Take movies like Glengarry Glen Ross, A Few Good Men or The Contender to name but a few. In all those movies the narrative is focused solely on the drama. I just couldn't picture myself calling them anything but drama, though I'm sure you could sub-categorize every movie into whatever fits your temper.

I can't really argue with what you say Sniper. Glengarry Glen Ross is a good one to bring up and I cannot disagree with what you say at all, I would not be able to call it anything else but a drama. But I would still use drama in the anti-genre sense. Not that there is anything wrong with calling it a drama but I would not want to exclude any other character driven movie from being called  a drama just because it is also a horror or a comedy for instance.

I agree with Sniper, drama is a genre. However, I don't think you can simply have drama alone, unless you're are making one of them boring ass life-time movies. You need some other elements(horror,comedy,action) to balance the drama.

~Zack~

Quoted from Zack I agree with Sniper, drama is a genre. However, I don't think you can simply have drama, unless you're are making one of them boring ass life-time movies. You need some other elements(horror,comedy,action) to balance the drama.

Zack, you need to watch Glengarry Glen Ross.

For the purposes of an OWC shouldn't it be clear that drama means the following:

NOT COMEDY
NOT HORROR
NOT ACTION
(NOT ANIMÉ)

Drama as a genre relies on dialogue, or the plot is conveyed through dialogue, not through fighting, explosions, shooting monsters or people falling down manholes.

Dramas with comedic elements are called Dramedy. Which of course means comedies with dramatic elements are callled...Comas?

I digress. But I will echo Rob and say: You need to watch Glengarry Glenn Ross, Zack. What about Memento? Isn't that drama?

Quoted from Death Monkey What about Memento? Isn't that drama?

Yeah, and so is Heat when you think about it.

Wasn't Memento an action thriller? Sure it was dramatic, but it had thriller vibe to it. Oh, and falling down a manhole is pretty dramatic.

~Zack~

Quoted from Zack Wasn't Memento an action thriller? Sure it was dramatic, but it had thriller vibe to it. Oh, and falling down a manhole is pretty dramatic. ~Zack~

Isn't there just one scene with an actual pace in that film? Where he's being chased by Dodd. There's no action to speak of. 99% of the film consists of "talky scenes" and the action lies in the dialogue, if you will.

Whether or not it's a thriller...I'm not sure. Most of the time this genre seems to mean "action without explosions". But I suppose thriller/drama wouldn't be too much of a stretch.

Quoted from Zack I don't think you can simply have drama, unless you're are making one of them boring ass life-time movies.

OK, Zack -- this is just silly.  

There are sub-genres of drama, of course, but of course Drama is a genre

Add these to your viewing list, Zack:

The Ice Storm
Midnight Cowboy
Leaving Las Vegas
American History X
Rain Man
Taxi Driver
What's Eating Gilbert Grape

And that is just off the top of my head, man.  There are thousands more where what is going on is pure, human drama without conventions "borrowed" from other genres.

You need to step outside of the Horror aisle once in a while.

I've seen American History X. There was a decent amount of action in that movie. But yeah, I already said in my first post that I did agree that drama was a genre.

~Zack~

It takes more than one or two grisly murders, a handful of bullets, or some one liners to turn something from a drama to some kind of drama-action/horror/comedy hybrid. Eastern Promises, for example, is first and foremost a drama, despite Viggo Mortensen in the buff having a knife fight with some Chechen mercenaries. American History X is also a pretty straightforward drama. You can argue semantics, of course, but the fact is drama is a genre. Just because you don't want to write within the boundaries that constitute a valid genre piece doesn't mean the genre doesn't exist... and for the record, writing within said boundaries doesn't make you a conformist. You can approach a genre unconventionally without dabbling in other genres at the same time.

Quoted from Takeshi Okay. Whilst reading some of the OWC scripts it occurred to me that some of the scripts I read were horror not drama and I pointed that out in two of my posts. However, the posts that followed mine more or less disputed what I said. One person basically said it doesn't matter if people stick to the genre or not and the other said that drama isn't a genre. Well, first of all, I think it does matter if people haven’t stuck to the genre, because if nobody stuck to the genre then it would be pointless nominating one. Secondly, it has always been my understanding that drama is a genre. What do you guys think?

My post was more out of frustration that people don't review the scripts seriously and every review starts looking the same when the next guy says what the guy above said.

Reviews are supposed to be your opinion on a given script and not the guy aboves opinion.

I'd rather get 2 reviews that MEAN something instead of 20 that don't.  My opinion.

Drama is a genre but it is also found in aspects of every other genre which blurs the line. Of course people would think that drama has to be tears and heartache with Dawson's Creek kinds of emotion but in my opinion it can be whatever the writer makes it.

It is like comedy. One persons idea of comedy may not be funny to you but that doesn't mean it's not comedy.

I apply the video shelving rule to my genre categories.  Would anything written for the challenge show up on the Drama shelf or would it go into Action, Horror, Sci-Fi?  

Would it be grouped with Evening, The Painted Veil and A Mighty Heart (which are on the first page of drama in Netflix for me)?

I haven't read all the entries but the ones I have I wouldn't place on the Drama shelf.  

Just because Drama has a section at the DVD store does not make it a genre. My point was that all film is Drama, everything is a drama film. It is just that some films cannot be easily slotted into a genre due to the fact they deal primarily with the emotional issues of the characters but do not take place in a fantasy land, or in a horror setting for instance. So a film in the horror genre is still a drama. While Glengarry is in the drama section of netflix because they do not have a section for 'Sales Films". Imagine if there was a genre for "Sales Films" that would mean that Glengarry cannot be a drama because it must be a "Sales Film".

Drama is definitely, 100% not a genre. A drama is a dramatic film, a movie in the drama section of the video store is a dramatic film with no obvious genre, therefore is a drama but that does not make drama a genre.

Sniper gave A Few Good Men as an example. Let us say that leaving the script pretty much intact that 'A Few Good Men" was instead of being set in Guatanamo was instead set in the Vampire court of Vasgelerard. Instead of a solider being killed it was in fact a senior vampire elder who was hacked to death in a bloody mess. Now this would be put in the horror genre and would therefore cease to be a drama. Even though the courtroom scenes would stay exactly the same in that the movie is primarily about the Characters and their emotions.

From the dictionary..

Quoted Text dra·ma n. A prose or verse composition, especially one telling a serious story, that is intended for representation by actors impersonating the characters and performing the dialogue and action. A serious narrative work or program for television, radio, or the cinema. Theatrical plays of a particular kind or period: Elizabethan drama. The art or practice of writing or producing dramatic works. A situation or succession of events in real life having the dramatic progression or emotional effect characteristic of a play: the drama of the prisoner's escape and recapture. The quality or condition of being dramatic: a summit meeting full of drama.

Quoted from Takeshi Okay. Whilst reading some of the OWC scripts it occurred to me that some of the scripts I read were horror not drama and I pointed that out in two of my posts. What do you guys think?

I've read five or six of the OWC scripts and I found two of them to be more horror than drama.  Writing a different genre is practically cheating.  The point of the OWC is to see if you can write a particular script based on a particular genre and theme, and working with a tight deadline.

If a director asked you to write a dramatic short that involved a prison cell, how do you think he would feel if you gave him a script with zombies in it?  Or ghosts?  I'm going to guess that he would be disappointed in the script, no matter how well written it may be.  If he wanted horror, he would've asked for horror.

If I read anymore OWC scripts, and find that it's not following the genre/theme restrictions, my comments on it will be that the writer did not follow the guidelines.  I recommend that everyone else do the same.

It's one thing to use a little artistic license in a script; it's another things to simply ignore the rules.


Phil

The guy above you just said it wasn't a genre and makes good points. How is it cheating if it is not technically a genre?

That could be an argument...

Personally I don't care because mine never got any reviews saying "This doesn't follow the genre or theme" which means I did.

Maybe Don should have a committee of people who aren't going to participate that read the scripts and if they don't say "This follows the theme and genre" then it gets rejected.

That way nobody is complaining.

Quoted from Murphy Just because Drama has a section at the DVD store does not make it a genre. My point was that all film is Drama, everything is a drama film. It is just that some films cannot be easily slotted into a genre due to the fact they deal primarily with the emotional issues of the characters but do not take place in a fantasy land, or in a horror setting for instance. So a film in the horror genre is still a drama. While Glengarry is in the drama section of netflix because they do not have a section for 'Sales Films". Imagine if there was a genre for "Sales Films" that would mean that Glengarry cannot be a drama because it must be a "Sales Film". Drama is definitely, 100% not a genre. A drama is a dramatic film, a movie in the drama section of the video store is a dramatic film with no obvious genre, therefore is a drama but that does not make drama a genre. Sniper gave A Few Good Men as an example. Let us say that leaving the script pretty much intact that 'A Few Good Men" was instead of being set in Guatanamo was instead set in the Vampire court of Vasgelerard. Instead of a solider being killed it was in fact a senior vampire elder who was hacked to death in a bloody mess. Now this would be put in the horror genre and would therefore cease to be a drama. Even though the courtroom scenes would stay exactly the same in that the movie is primarily about the Characters and their emotions. From the dictionary..

Bear in mind that the dictionary is prescriptive, not descriptive. The fact of the matter is that drama (in terms of motion pictures) has been and is used as a genre everywhere (video-stores, IMDB, by actors, directors, studios, audiences) and we all know what a drama means. Quibbling over semantics is missing the point, I think. Drama is a genre by virtue of it being treated as such by almost everyone involved in film-making and watching. It's an extra-lexical consensus, you might say.

David Bordwell in the seminal textbook Film Art argues that genre is easier to recognize than define. I think that's true because we all know what drama means in terms of movies, don't we? We all recognize it. Certain titles spring to mind and so on.

I understand your vampire movie example, but you're operating under the assumption that genres can't merge. the movie you're talking about would be classified a horror/drama, much like Emily Rose was. Supernatural creatures like vampires are inherently loaded with horror (unless you you spoof them) in that they have an entire mythos surrounding them - the entire undead, bloodsucking creatures of the night thing. the question is if, in your court-room vampire flick, there are no vampires sucking blood from anyone, is it really a vampire movie? Could you imagine a movie whre vampires would be vampires only because we were told they were? Wouldn't your movie just be A Few Good Men - with toothy albinos?

Quoted from Old Time Wesley The guy above you just said it wasn't a genre and makes good points. How is it cheating if it is not technically a genre? That could be an argument....

But it would be a poor argument, IMHO.

As DM pointed out, the definition listed above is not an appropriate definition.

Merriam-Webster Online Dictionary better describes drama as:

Quoted Text a composition in verse or prose intended to portray life or character or to tell a story usually involving conflicts and emotions through action and dialogue and typically designed for theatrical performance : play — compare closet drama b: a movie or television production with characteristics (as conflict) of a serious play; broadly : a play, movie, or television production with a serious tone or subject    2: dramatic art, literature, or affairs 3 a: a state, situation, or series of events involving interesting or intense conflict of forces b: dramatic state, effect, or quality

One you start throwing in zombies or talking animals or fairies, you're taking away the human condition.

Quoted from Old Time Wesley Personally I don't care because mine never got any reviews saying "This doesn't follow the genre or theme" which means I did. Maybe Don should have a committee of people who aren't going to participate that read the scripts and if they don't say "This follows the theme and genre" then it gets rejected. That way nobody is complaining.

There will always be someone to complain.


Phil

Quoted from Murphy I can't really argue with what you say Sniper. Glengarry Glen Ross is a good one to bring up and I cannot disagree with what you say at all, I would not be able to call it anything else but a drama. But I would still use drama in the anti-genre sense. Not that there is anything wrong with calling it a drama but I would not want to exclude any other character driven movie from being called  a drama just because it is also a horror or a comedy for instance.

You answered your question right there, Murphy. If you can't call a movie anything other than a drama, then it's a drama. So therefore the genre exists.

Films like: American Beauty, Krammer versus Krammer, Broadcast News, Cool Hand Luke, Giant, Ghandi, The Ice Storm and The Sweet Hereafter are all dramas. They're not comedies or horrors with elements of drama in them, they are dramas.

Sure there’re hybrid genres that have an equal share of drama and comedy, or drama and horror, but there’re also movies that are predominantly dramas and are therefore called dramas.  

  
    

Quoted from dogglebe One you start throwing in zombies or talking animals or fairies, you're taking away the human condition.

Not when it is the story of humans dealing with an attack of Zombies as most if not all Zombie films are about.


I am not gonna win this one so will bow out, but wanted to repeat that this whole thread was started because in some peoples eyes the OWC script "Repetition" is not a drama. I think that is certainly not the case. It is dealing with someone with severe mental problems having conversation with his inner demons, how anyone can say this is not dramatic is beyond me. If you want to call it Horror/Drama then do so, but it is a piece of drama.

Quoted from Takeshi You answered your question right there, Murphy. If you can't call a movie anything other than a drama, then it's a drama. So therefore the genre exists.

When used in the video store shelf way it is an anti-genre.

Red Light
Green Light
Orange Light

All 'Lights'

A white light is rarely called a 'white light' it is usually called just a 'light'. Ask someone to shine a light on something you are expecting a normal white light. If they shine a red light you are gonna say "i never asked for a red light did I?"

So a 'light' becomes a genre of a white light colour, but that does not mean that the other colour lights are not 'lights'. They are just a 'light' with a genre, the white light does not have a genre.

Quoted from dogglebe If I read anymore OWC scripts, and find that it's not following the genre/theme restrictions, my comments on it will be that the writer did not follow the guidelines.

Maybe if we would actually have Horror once in a while, people would not be so compelled to stick it in where it doesn't belong.

The primary genre that the majority of members love to write and read is consistently ignored -- and that is why it keeps slipping into the challenge.

Quoted from dogglebe There will always be someone to complain.

Haha -- yeah, that's me.  Sorry.  But I read a whole boatload of scripts this time around, so I can hop onto my soapbox guilt-free.

Quoted from Murphy Not when it is the story of humans dealing with an attack of Zombies as most if not all Zombie films are about.

Zombie scripts, for the most part, are about blood and gore and people turning into zombies after getting bitten.

Quoted from Murphy I am not gonna win this one so will bow out, but wanted to repeat that this whole thread was started because in some peoples eyes the OWC script "Repetition" is not a drama. I think that is certainly not the case. It is dealing with someone with severe mental problems having conversation with his inner demons, how anyone can say this is not dramatic is beyond me. If you want to call it Horror/Drama then do so, but it is a piece of drama.

Repitition, IMHO, was drama.  It was about personal torment and guilt.

Maybe, with future OWC, we'll have to include a rule about no multiple genre scripts.  People complained a while back that the genre/themes were getting tough.  But when easier ones are announced, people go wide with it.


Phil

Quoted from bert Maybe if we would actually have Horror once in a while, people would not be so compelled to stick it in where it doesn't belong. The primary genre that the majority of members love to write and read is consistently ignored -- and that is why it keeps slipping into the challenge.

You don't need the OWC to write a horror script.  Just write one!  When last Halloween's OWC was comedy, a bitchstorm started because people wanted to write horror.  WTF is stopping these people?  You wan t to write your zombie script, then write a zombie sript.  But if the OWC is a drama about a telephone repairman, don't write that the phone was broken by a horde of zombies.

That kind of crap you should be able to write on your own.


Phil

Quoted from dogglebe You don't need the OWC to write a horror script.  Just write one!

Yes, but people like to play the game -- and horror is alot of fun for alot of members.  The OWC always gets people fired up, but horror does that best.

And I will state for a flat-out, undeniable fact, you get more non-player readers when the genre is horror.

I am veering way off topic here -- I would hate to have to mod myself -- though it's been done before.

I agree that Drama is somewhat nebulous as a genre, and the reason I piped up was the idea of people being penalized for writing a Horror/Drama hybrid.

One of the best scripts this time around -- and I've read most -- has many trappings of a horror script.

Fine, the next OWC will be horror....

bunch of cry babies.



Phil

Quoted from Murphy When used in the video store shelf way it is an anti-genre. Red Light Green Light Orange Light All 'Lights' A white light is rarely called a 'white light' it is usually called just a 'light'. Ask someone to shine a light on something you are expecting a normal white light. If they shine a red light you are gonna say "i never asked for a red light did I?" So a 'light' becomes a genre of a white light colour, but that does not mean that the other colour lights are not 'lights'. They are just a 'light' with a genre, the white light does not have a genre.

So much for bowing out, hey, Murphy?

You see a movie as being a drama by default or an anti-genre, as you put it, if it’s not clearly horror, comedy or sci-fi. I think you're laboring under the assumption that I'm failing to see your point of view. I see it, but I just don't agree with it.
  
Hold a white light up next to a blue and green light and ask people what the colors of the lights are. They'll say white, blue and green. They won't say, "anti blue and green, blue and green."  

Quoted from dogglebe Fine, the next OWC will be horror....

Ack!  Now it can't be horror!

How you twist my words, you cursed, Machiavellian dog-fiend!!

Quoted from bert Ack!  Now it can't be horror! How you twist my words, you cursed, Machiavellian dog-fiend!!

Of course, if the next one was horror, then the October was couldn't be horror.

And you thought it was easy organizing this thing.


Phil

Quoted from Takeshi So much for bowing out, hey, Murphy?

INT. GARY"S OFFICE - MORNING

Gary bows out of the conversation with his tail between his legs. He closes the blinds, turns off the light and closes the door behind him.  

FADE OUT:

I thought this was supposed to be "fun" and a "challenge" not who wants to sell a short to some teenager with a camera.

Horror is a popular genre. The only reason it is popular is because anybody can do it and they do but it's never good.

I would rather harder genre/themes but ones that don't make it so that all the scripts are similar like this one. Maybe it was hard but it also had similar scripts all around and that's never good.

People will always complain and I will be here to complain about them complaining so eventually we can have some fun and peace or a lot of deleted posts but I prefer fun and peace.

To put a cap on this one...

Drama is a genre. We all know this (right, Murph'?). End of discussion.

Iro. OWC, stick to the given genre and theme or submit your script the "regular" way.

Quoted from sniper To put a cap on this one... Drama is a genre. We all know this (right, Murph'?). End of discussion. Iro. OWC, stick to the given genre and theme or submit your script the "regular" way.

Sure thing Sniper, thanks for sorting me out. You know me, Im just a 17 year old kid, a bit wet behind the ears and not really capable of speaking for myself. Thanks for taking the time to speak on my behalf and put me right. After all what do I know? I know nothing of course.

lets crack on shall we and rip into a some fools for daring to include some horror or comedy in their drama scripts. You bastards!!!!!

Quoted from Murphy Sure thing Sniper, thanks for sorting me out. You know me, Im just a 17 year old kid, a bit wet behind the ears and not really capable of speaking for myself. Thanks for taking the time to speak on my behalf and put me right. After all what do I know? I know nothing of course. lets crack on shall we and rip into a some fools for daring to include some horror or comedy in their drama scripts. You bastards!!!!!

Wait a minute...are you being sarcastic??

Seriously though, I think the problem is that your definition of drama seems to be "anything that is dramatic", which is also one of the lexical definitions. But drama is ALSO a genre, which I don't think you really can deny without offering altertive for labelling movies like The Ice-Storm or The Sweet Hereafter. What would you call these movies?

Quoted from Death Monkey Wait a minute...are you being sarcastic?? Seriously though, I think the problem is that your definition of drama seems to be "anything that is dramatic", which is also one of the lexical definitions. But drama is ALSO a genre, which I don't think you really can deny without offering altertive for labelling movies like The Ice-Storm or The Sweet Hereafter. What would you call these movies?

Not sure I am allowed to answer this Death Monkey, but will see if I can get away with it.

I have not once denied that there are movies that are classed as only drama, I am understand the idea put here that drama is a genre - though I much prefer anti-genre.

What i have said all along is just because 'The Ice-Storm' is a drama it does not mean that 'The Shining' is not. Take the horror out of the Shining and it is a drama, take the music out of 'Chicago' and it is a drama. Or put it another way, a horror film is just a drama with horror elements, a musical is just a drama with music. So I don't think it is enough to say something must be a drama because by every single definition of the word everything is a drama.

Now you can be specific and say the genre must be drama but then we really need to understand under what circumstances a piece will cease to be considered a drama, is there a certain amount of blood? or an exact number of jokes? When does a drama with a couple of songs become a musical and not a drama?

I just think that nobody can say that any of these OWC are not drama. A well written script should have all the required elements for a drama script regardless of whether it is horror, comedy or musical. And if people here do think that then I would rather they put their money where their mouth is and tell us which ones are not drama and explain to us why so we will know in the future.

Quoted from Murphy Not sure I am allowed to answer this Death Monkey, but will see if I can get away with it. I have not once denied that there are movies that are classed as only drama, I am understand the idea put here that drama is a genre - though I much prefer anti-genre. What i have said all along is just because 'The Ice-Storm' is a drama it does not mean that 'The Shining' is not. Take the horror out of the Shining and it is a drama, take the music out of 'Chicago' and it is a drama. Or put it another way, a horror film is just a drama with horror elements, a musical is just a drama with music. So I don't think it is enough to say something must be a drama because by every single definition of the word everything is a drama. Now you can be specific and say the genre must be drama but then we really need to understand under what circumstances a piece will cease to be considered a drama, is there a certain amount of blood? or an exact number of jokes? When does a drama with a couple of songs become a musical and not a drama? I just think that nobody can say that any of these OWC are not drama. A well written script should have all the required elements for a drama script regardless of whether it is horror, comedy or musical. And if people here do think that then I would rather they put their money where there mouth is and tell us which ones are not drama and explain to us why so we will know in the future.

I hear you. I get what you're saying about drama being an anti-genre, but then it's still a genre. If you add horror to a drama then it's no longer a drama, exactly because we then define the GENRE drama as being "that which is without". So if you're tasked to write a drama, then if you rely on horror elements or comedic elements, you're no longer dealing with a drama.

Like I said before a genre is much easier to recognize than to define, so naturally there's no arbitrary quota of blood or jokes that will universally turn something into a comedy or horror, but nonetheless most people will agree that The Others is horror while Freddy Got fingered is a comedy, even though there's much more gore in the latter (and fewer jokes...).

Which is why for the purposes of a OWC when the genre is drama, it's sort of defeating the purpose to go "Well technically everything is drama, so my script is too!" when hopefully all participants know what a drama looks like even if there isn't a surefire way to prove genres. You can't prove something is rock'n roll but if you were asked to bring rock'n roll CDs to school you wouldn't bring Miles Davis, even though you can't prove that he's not rock'n roll.

Quoted from Old Time Wesley I thought this was supposed to be "fun" and a "challenge" not who wants to sell a short to some teenager with a camera.

How much of a challenge is this when the rules aren't followed?  I remember the science fiction OWC we had where the theme was 'popcorn.  One person wrote a sci-fi script took place on a spaceship whose name was Popcorn...  And it was only mentioned once!

The idea of this game is to see if you can write under tight guidelines.  If you can't, then don't enter.

Quoted from Murphy A well written script should have all the required elements for a drama script regardless of whether it is horror, comedy or musical. And if people here do think that then I would rather they put their money where their mouth is and tell us which ones are not drama and explain to us why so we will know in the future.

It's one thing to include the elements of other genres, but you have to remember what the core genre is and work with that.


Phil

Quoted from Death Monkey but if you were asked to bring rock'n roll CDs to school you wouldn't bring Miles Davis, even though you can't prove that he's not rock'n roll.

That is where my mind works differently then DM, Because I would say anyone who asked someone to bring a rock 'n roll CD to school and then proceeds to judge people on their interpretation of what constitutes rock 'n roll is asking for trouble. If they want to limit it to 50's 3 chord guitar rock then that is what they should have asked for in the first place.

Quoted from dogglebe It's one thing to include the elements of other genres, but you have to remember what the core genre is and work with that.

But that is my point Phil, it is absolutely impossible to write a script that has characters and it not be a drama regardless of what genre it is.

Quoted from Murphy That is where my mind works differently then DM, Because I would say anyone who asked someone to bring a rock 'n roll CD to school and then proceeds to judge people on their interpretation of what constitutes rock 'n roll is asking for trouble. If they want to limit it to 50's 3 chord guitar rock then that is what they should have asked for in the first place.

But how can you function in real life with that sort of relativistic attitude? When someone tells you to bring rock music to a party would you EVER bring Bach? Would you ever bring Britney Spears?

It seems kinda contrarian to me. You can go around and say "you can't prove it's not rock'n roll" all you want, but you must KNOW what people mean, right?

White and black aren't technically colors, but nobody would ever ask for a colorless car. White is a color by virtue of the fact that everyone recognizes it as such. Same goes for drama as a genre.

I guess if you don't recognize the (albeit arbitrary) boundaries of genre, why would you participate in a achallenge that specifically asks you to confine yourself without them? You must know there's a point to there being the limitation of drama, right?

Quoted from Murphy Of course I do DM, and I am never actually put forward a OWC. But drama is a pretty weak genre to put forward for the OWC and I do not think it is fair for people to be slating anybodies work for not being a drama when by definition every single script in the OWC is a drama anyway. We really have to agree to disagree here and you need to stop asking me questions so I can stop answering them. I am man enough to take it on the chin and will still respect you in the morning Goodnight.

Are you coming on to me?




Okay I'm done.

Quoted from Murphy That is where my mind works differently then DM, Because I would say anyone who asked someone to bring a rock 'n roll CD to school and then proceeds to judge people on their interpretation of what constitutes rock 'n roll is asking for trouble. If they want to limit it to 50's 3 chord guitar rock then that is what they should have asked for in the first place.

Quoted from Murphy But that is my point Phil, it is absolutely impossible to write a script that has characters and it not be a drama regardless of what genre it is.

Then, maybe, we should refine the genre?  Narrow the playing field so not to allow any undead or dead characters?  Specify that, if the proposed genre is drama, then the script should take place in a realistic setting?

What's the expression about the fart in church?

This is why, when the OWC used horror as a genre, it was always gothic horror.  This way, the challenge wouldn't be flooded by hastefully-prepared zombie scripts and serial killer scripts.

And, repeating myself for the umpteenth time, this is suppose to be a challenge.  You, as the writer, is supposed to be challenged by writing something that you normally do not write.  If the genre for the next OWC is romance, will you bow out of it?  Or throw in a zombie?


Phil

I have nothing to add other than this has been an interesting debate to read on my lunchbreak!  

Quoted from dogglebe If the genre for the next OWC is romance, will you bow out of it?  Or throw in a zombie?

I take it you have not seen 'Fido', a movie where a woman falls in love with her sons pet zombie!

I fully understand the reasons for restricting people to a genre for the OWC, it is a great thing to do. I does force a writer to leave their comfort zone in some way which is never a bad thing. Why you seem to think i have a problem with this is beyond me, I am simply answering the main topic of discussion in that is drama a genre. You have got me confused with someone else as I have never written a zombie script and the only horror I have ever written is for Scarefest and it sucks because I cannot do horror.

Next time maybe you should just say "No Horror!". Or just accept the fact that whatever you choose for the OWC that the genre writers on this site will try and fit the OWC around their own genre. If they do it successfully then great, it shows some inventiveness and the ability to work to a genre anyway, it just has the added bonus of some undead thrown in.  Or do as I have been asking and yet nobody has stuck their neck out to do yet, tell us which scripts failed the OWC for not meeting the genre requirement and tell us why. The only way people learn is if they are told why why are doing wrong, just saying "you broke the rules this aint a drama" is terrible feedback and helps nobody.

Quoted from dogglebe How much of a challenge is this when the rules aren't followed?  I remember the science fiction OWC we had where the theme was 'popcorn.  One person wrote a sci-fi script took place on a spaceship whose name was Popcorn...  And it was only mentioned once! Phil

That's funny though.

Mine took place on a spaceship and only really mentioned popcorn once but I think time will tell if it turns into an underground hit haha probably not though but my hopes have been up for the last year that some day it will become a hit.

You cannot and will never be able to stop people from entering whatever they want even if you attack them and tell them they broke the rules.

Frankly attacking an author is against the rules so please if you do it, do it with a little taste and dignity unlike what is going to happen which is a fight and I refuse to clean up any more threads because people cry about it and call me names in private and it hurts my feelings...

Steering away from the arguing I still have some unanswered questions regarding this whole drama as a genre debate.

The Shining, 1408, Nightmare on Elm Street - All Horror, right? How do we know they are horror? because they all share similar themes, undead, fantasy, scares etc.. It is pretty easy to put horror movies into a genre right?

Chicago, Mary Poppins, West Side Story - all Musicals right? again musicals seem to be pretty easy to put into a genre.

Something About Mary, Juno, Be Kind Rewind, again comedy's, easy, right?

Titanic, The Godfather, Fight Club, It's a wonderful life. - All according to IMDB are 'Dramas'.


So two questions,

A - if the OWC was a musical and someone wrote 'Sweeney Todd the Demon Barber of Fleet Street' would they be guilty of not sticking to the genre and introducing horror?

B - Can someone explain what ties the four drama films together into a genre that does not apply to any of the horror / comedy or Musical movies?

Cheers

One thing I'm repeatedly seeing in response to the scripts that stretched the theme is "if a producer came up to you and asked you to write a short drama about a prison cell, would you really write something about a mountain or a ship or a garbage can or an..."  

Yes, if a producer came to you and asked you to write a short drama about a prison cell, you probably wouldn't feel the need to stretch the theme.  However, when there's 35 other authors submitting scripts, it may not be a bad idea to stretch the theme and go the route of a metaphor just to be out there and be remembered.  Whether or not people like the metaphor, well, that's a different story.

The exercise challenges you to write the theme and the genre within a week.  Sometimes when you're writing you get inspired to try something else and you do go a little out of the way, but it looks like there's talk about censoring that now or something.  I mean, seriously, come on.  It looks like we've established a system to block the poorly formatted scripts as well as oust the leeches which is good enough for me.  If there's 35 scripts out there, I'd like to read a variety and see how other people interpreted the challenge.  Interpretation.  That's what it is.  I don't see why some people are seriously getting offended by it.  

Needless to say, I did write a metaphor.  Some people thought it was okay, some didn't.  Either way I hold no regrets.

Quoted from Murphy A - if the OWC was a musical and someone wrote 'Sweeney Todd the Demon Barber of Fleet Street' would they be guilty of not sticking to the genre and introducing horror?

Haha. Easy question. Unlike the other genres, musicals need one thing and one thing only to make them musicals: multiple musical performances. Other than that, they're essentially other genres. Sweeney Todd is a horror movie. Hairspray is a comedy. They're only musicals because they have musical performances. Period.

Quoted from Murphy B - Can someone explain what ties the four drama films together into a genre that does not apply to any of the horror / comedy or Musical movies?

Well, obviously none of those films have musical numbers so you're not going to be able to lump them in with Mary Poppins, haha. Other than that, it's a tricky question. I have my own ideas as to what constitutes as drama but for the sake of discussion, I'll give two answers. First, the copout. What unites these four films is that they don't have enough of any other genres to constitute as any other genre than drama. Okay, a cheap answer I know. Personally, I think what unites these films is the fact that they center on the emotions and relationships amongst the characters as opposed to the action that occurs within them. The Godfather isn't so much about what gangsters do as it is about what it's like to be associated with gangsters. Titanic isn't so much about the tragedy as it is about the people on the ship. Fight Club has so many complex themes going on at once that it'd be a massive oversimplification to stamp it as, say, an action film.

Food for thought.

Quoted from greg The exercise challenges you to write the theme and the genre within a week.  Sometimes when you're writing you get inspired to try something else and you do go a little out of the way, but it looks like there's talk about censoring that now or something.  I mean, seriously, come on.  It looks like we've established a system to block the poorly formatted scripts as well as oust the leeches which is good enough for me.  If there's 35 scripts out there, I'd like to read a variety and see how other people interpreted the challenge.  Interpretation.  That's what it is.  I don't see why some people are seriously getting offended by it.

I agree 100%. My only issue is that all this doesn't always appear to be the case with people. I honestly think some people spend more time trying to find ways around the "rules" than trying to write a good script, like they're trying to show off or something. Either that or they want to write a completely different script and follow the "rules" just enough to get away with it. The problem with this is that it always shows in the final product. If you spend too much time trying to find a loophole, your script's not going to end up all that great.

Quoted from Murphy Steering away from the arguing I still have some unanswered questions regarding this whole drama as a genre debate. The Shining, 1408, Nightmare on Elm Street - All Horror, right? How do we know they are horror? because they all share similar themes, undead, fantasy, scares etc.. It is pretty easy to put horror movies into a genre right? Chicago, Mary Poppins, West Side Story - all Musicals right? again musicals seem to be pretty easy to put into a genre. Something About Mary, Juno, Be Kind Rewind, again comedy's, easy, right? Titanic, The Godfather, Fight Club, It's a wonderful life. - All according to IMDB are 'Dramas'. So two questions, A - if the OWC was a musical and someone wrote 'Sweeney Todd the Demon Barber of Fleet Street' would they be guilty of not sticking to the genre and introducing horror? B - Can someone explain what ties the four drama films together into a genre that does not apply to any of the horror / comedy or Musical movies? Cheers

I understand your theoretical point, Murphy. No, we can't pinpoint what exactly constitues drama, which by the way is true for any genre. Some genres we define by what they invoke in the viewer, others by certain themes. A western and a horror are not defined by the same standards. We recognize certain themes in a western, and a historical setting, in horror we recognize the atmosphere and the reaction the movie strives to solicit in its audience. Fantasy is defined by a whole third set of parameters, name that which is fantastic.

The conceit that a producer hands us an assignment to write drama is a good one, because you would never argue with a producer saying: "No, but it's technically drama!". It's not about whether or not it's REALLY drama or not, it's about staying inside the guidelines you're given which you hopefully understand. You know what's required of you. And I can understand why it's frustrating to work hard on finding a story that works within those confines, if someone else disregards theme and genre because he'd rather write a different story with werewolves or zombies.

Quoted from greg Yes, if a producer came to you and asked you to write a short drama about a prison cell, you probably wouldn't feel the need to stretch the theme.  However, when there's 35 other authors submitting scripts, it may not be a bad idea to stretch the theme and go the route of a metaphor just to be out there and be remembered.  Whether or not people like the metaphor, well, that's a different story.

It's one thing to stretch a theme.  It's another thing to snap it in half and beat it to death with bridge cable.


Phil

Quoted from Old Time Wesley Mine took place on a spaceship and only really mentioned popcorn once but I think time will tell if it turns into an underground hit haha probably not though but my hopes have been up for the last year that some day it will become a hit.

I just got off the phone with Time.  He said that you should move on....  

Quoted from Old Time Wesley You cannot and will never be able to stop people from entering whatever they want even if you attack them and tell them they broke the rules.

If others would choose not to write reviews to the off-topic OWC scripts, I think the authors would take the theme/genre more seriously.

Quoted from Old Time Wesley Frankly attacking an author is against the rules so please if you do it, do it with a little taste and dignity unlike what is going to happen which is a fight and I refuse to clean up any more threads because people cry about it and call me names in private and it hurts my feelings...

You're right.  While I shouldn't attack the author, I should feel free to critique the scripts as I see appropriate.



Phil

This thread is one of the strangest things (about writing) that I've ever read.

I never knew that drama was like porn -- you only know it when you see it.

I can understand the inclusion of other genres because drama is hard to write.  It's all about the life you've lived and not about the movies you've watched.  

It's easier to build conflict around something external and movie-familiar like a zombie attack. You have your horror set pieces and you move them around the characters and that's your conflict.  With dramas your set pieces are almost always character driven and they force you to write scenes that tell a lot about you.  If a writer isn't sure about his/her voice then drama is not the genre he/she would want to write.

Quoted from Tierney It's easier to build conflict around something external and movie-familiar like a zombie attack. You have your horror set pieces and you move them around the characters and that's your conflict.  With dramas your set pieces are almost always character driven and they force you to write scenes that tell a lot about you.  If a writer isn't sure about his/her voice then drama is not the genre he/she would want to write.

Which is why so many people choose to write horror instead of drama and why I find most horror movies incredibly boring.

Quoted from Takeshi Which is why so many people choose to write horror instead of drama and why I find most horror movies incredibly boring.

Horror movies are, generally, boring because there is rarely anything unique about them.  Look at the zombie scripts that are written here.  For the most part, the biggest difference in them is where the humans hide out and figure out a plan.  All the characters are two-dimensional and the writer puts more thought into 'cool' splatter visuals than into the characters and story.


Phil