Quoted from Murphy That is where my mind works differently then DM, Because I would say anyone who asked someone to bring a rock 'n roll CD to school and then proceeds to judge people on their interpretation of what constitutes rock 'n roll is asking for trouble. If they want to limit it to 50's 3 chord guitar rock then that is what they should have asked for in the first place.

Quoted from Murphy But that is my point Phil, it is absolutely impossible to write a script that has characters and it not be a drama regardless of what genre it is.

Then, maybe, we should refine the genre?  Narrow the playing field so not to allow any undead or dead characters?  Specify that, if the proposed genre is drama, then the script should take place in a realistic setting?

What's the expression about the fart in church?

This is why, when the OWC used horror as a genre, it was always gothic horror.  This way, the challenge wouldn't be flooded by hastefully-prepared zombie scripts and serial killer scripts.

And, repeating myself for the umpteenth time, this is suppose to be a challenge.  You, as the writer, is supposed to be challenged by writing something that you normally do not write.  If the genre for the next OWC is romance, will you bow out of it?  Or throw in a zombie?


Phil

I have nothing to add other than this has been an interesting debate to read on my lunchbreak!  

Quoted from dogglebe If the genre for the next OWC is romance, will you bow out of it?  Or throw in a zombie?

I take it you have not seen 'Fido', a movie where a woman falls in love with her sons pet zombie!

I fully understand the reasons for restricting people to a genre for the OWC, it is a great thing to do. I does force a writer to leave their comfort zone in some way which is never a bad thing. Why you seem to think i have a problem with this is beyond me, I am simply answering the main topic of discussion in that is drama a genre. You have got me confused with someone else as I have never written a zombie script and the only horror I have ever written is for Scarefest and it sucks because I cannot do horror.

Next time maybe you should just say "No Horror!". Or just accept the fact that whatever you choose for the OWC that the genre writers on this site will try and fit the OWC around their own genre. If they do it successfully then great, it shows some inventiveness and the ability to work to a genre anyway, it just has the added bonus of some undead thrown in.  Or do as I have been asking and yet nobody has stuck their neck out to do yet, tell us which scripts failed the OWC for not meeting the genre requirement and tell us why. The only way people learn is if they are told why why are doing wrong, just saying "you broke the rules this aint a drama" is terrible feedback and helps nobody.

Quoted from dogglebe How much of a challenge is this when the rules aren't followed?  I remember the science fiction OWC we had where the theme was 'popcorn.  One person wrote a sci-fi script took place on a spaceship whose name was Popcorn...  And it was only mentioned once! Phil

That's funny though.

Mine took place on a spaceship and only really mentioned popcorn once but I think time will tell if it turns into an underground hit haha probably not though but my hopes have been up for the last year that some day it will become a hit.

You cannot and will never be able to stop people from entering whatever they want even if you attack them and tell them they broke the rules.

Frankly attacking an author is against the rules so please if you do it, do it with a little taste and dignity unlike what is going to happen which is a fight and I refuse to clean up any more threads because people cry about it and call me names in private and it hurts my feelings...

Steering away from the arguing I still have some unanswered questions regarding this whole drama as a genre debate.

The Shining, 1408, Nightmare on Elm Street - All Horror, right? How do we know they are horror? because they all share similar themes, undead, fantasy, scares etc.. It is pretty easy to put horror movies into a genre right?

Chicago, Mary Poppins, West Side Story - all Musicals right? again musicals seem to be pretty easy to put into a genre.

Something About Mary, Juno, Be Kind Rewind, again comedy's, easy, right?

Titanic, The Godfather, Fight Club, It's a wonderful life. - All according to IMDB are 'Dramas'.


So two questions,

A - if the OWC was a musical and someone wrote 'Sweeney Todd the Demon Barber of Fleet Street' would they be guilty of not sticking to the genre and introducing horror?

B - Can someone explain what ties the four drama films together into a genre that does not apply to any of the horror / comedy or Musical movies?

Cheers

One thing I'm repeatedly seeing in response to the scripts that stretched the theme is "if a producer came up to you and asked you to write a short drama about a prison cell, would you really write something about a mountain or a ship or a garbage can or an..."  

Yes, if a producer came to you and asked you to write a short drama about a prison cell, you probably wouldn't feel the need to stretch the theme.  However, when there's 35 other authors submitting scripts, it may not be a bad idea to stretch the theme and go the route of a metaphor just to be out there and be remembered.  Whether or not people like the metaphor, well, that's a different story.

The exercise challenges you to write the theme and the genre within a week.  Sometimes when you're writing you get inspired to try something else and you do go a little out of the way, but it looks like there's talk about censoring that now or something.  I mean, seriously, come on.  It looks like we've established a system to block the poorly formatted scripts as well as oust the leeches which is good enough for me.  If there's 35 scripts out there, I'd like to read a variety and see how other people interpreted the challenge.  Interpretation.  That's what it is.  I don't see why some people are seriously getting offended by it.  

Needless to say, I did write a metaphor.  Some people thought it was okay, some didn't.  Either way I hold no regrets.

Quoted from Murphy A - if the OWC was a musical and someone wrote 'Sweeney Todd the Demon Barber of Fleet Street' would they be guilty of not sticking to the genre and introducing horror?

Haha. Easy question. Unlike the other genres, musicals need one thing and one thing only to make them musicals: multiple musical performances. Other than that, they're essentially other genres. Sweeney Todd is a horror movie. Hairspray is a comedy. They're only musicals because they have musical performances. Period.

Quoted from Murphy B - Can someone explain what ties the four drama films together into a genre that does not apply to any of the horror / comedy or Musical movies?

Well, obviously none of those films have musical numbers so you're not going to be able to lump them in with Mary Poppins, haha. Other than that, it's a tricky question. I have my own ideas as to what constitutes as drama but for the sake of discussion, I'll give two answers. First, the copout. What unites these four films is that they don't have enough of any other genres to constitute as any other genre than drama. Okay, a cheap answer I know. Personally, I think what unites these films is the fact that they center on the emotions and relationships amongst the characters as opposed to the action that occurs within them. The Godfather isn't so much about what gangsters do as it is about what it's like to be associated with gangsters. Titanic isn't so much about the tragedy as it is about the people on the ship. Fight Club has so many complex themes going on at once that it'd be a massive oversimplification to stamp it as, say, an action film.

Food for thought.

Quoted from greg The exercise challenges you to write the theme and the genre within a week.  Sometimes when you're writing you get inspired to try something else and you do go a little out of the way, but it looks like there's talk about censoring that now or something.  I mean, seriously, come on.  It looks like we've established a system to block the poorly formatted scripts as well as oust the leeches which is good enough for me.  If there's 35 scripts out there, I'd like to read a variety and see how other people interpreted the challenge.  Interpretation.  That's what it is.  I don't see why some people are seriously getting offended by it.

I agree 100%. My only issue is that all this doesn't always appear to be the case with people. I honestly think some people spend more time trying to find ways around the "rules" than trying to write a good script, like they're trying to show off or something. Either that or they want to write a completely different script and follow the "rules" just enough to get away with it. The problem with this is that it always shows in the final product. If you spend too much time trying to find a loophole, your script's not going to end up all that great.

Quoted from Murphy Steering away from the arguing I still have some unanswered questions regarding this whole drama as a genre debate. The Shining, 1408, Nightmare on Elm Street - All Horror, right? How do we know they are horror? because they all share similar themes, undead, fantasy, scares etc.. It is pretty easy to put horror movies into a genre right? Chicago, Mary Poppins, West Side Story - all Musicals right? again musicals seem to be pretty easy to put into a genre. Something About Mary, Juno, Be Kind Rewind, again comedy's, easy, right? Titanic, The Godfather, Fight Club, It's a wonderful life. - All according to IMDB are 'Dramas'. So two questions, A - if the OWC was a musical and someone wrote 'Sweeney Todd the Demon Barber of Fleet Street' would they be guilty of not sticking to the genre and introducing horror? B - Can someone explain what ties the four drama films together into a genre that does not apply to any of the horror / comedy or Musical movies? Cheers

I understand your theoretical point, Murphy. No, we can't pinpoint what exactly constitues drama, which by the way is true for any genre. Some genres we define by what they invoke in the viewer, others by certain themes. A western and a horror are not defined by the same standards. We recognize certain themes in a western, and a historical setting, in horror we recognize the atmosphere and the reaction the movie strives to solicit in its audience. Fantasy is defined by a whole third set of parameters, name that which is fantastic.

The conceit that a producer hands us an assignment to write drama is a good one, because you would never argue with a producer saying: "No, but it's technically drama!". It's not about whether or not it's REALLY drama or not, it's about staying inside the guidelines you're given which you hopefully understand. You know what's required of you. And I can understand why it's frustrating to work hard on finding a story that works within those confines, if someone else disregards theme and genre because he'd rather write a different story with werewolves or zombies.

Quoted from greg Yes, if a producer came to you and asked you to write a short drama about a prison cell, you probably wouldn't feel the need to stretch the theme.  However, when there's 35 other authors submitting scripts, it may not be a bad idea to stretch the theme and go the route of a metaphor just to be out there and be remembered.  Whether or not people like the metaphor, well, that's a different story.

It's one thing to stretch a theme.  It's another thing to snap it in half and beat it to death with bridge cable.


Phil

Quoted from Old Time Wesley Mine took place on a spaceship and only really mentioned popcorn once but I think time will tell if it turns into an underground hit haha probably not though but my hopes have been up for the last year that some day it will become a hit.

I just got off the phone with Time.  He said that you should move on....  

Quoted from Old Time Wesley You cannot and will never be able to stop people from entering whatever they want even if you attack them and tell them they broke the rules.

If others would choose not to write reviews to the off-topic OWC scripts, I think the authors would take the theme/genre more seriously.

Quoted from Old Time Wesley Frankly attacking an author is against the rules so please if you do it, do it with a little taste and dignity unlike what is going to happen which is a fight and I refuse to clean up any more threads because people cry about it and call me names in private and it hurts my feelings...

You're right.  While I shouldn't attack the author, I should feel free to critique the scripts as I see appropriate.



Phil

This thread is one of the strangest things (about writing) that I've ever read.

I never knew that drama was like porn -- you only know it when you see it.

I can understand the inclusion of other genres because drama is hard to write.  It's all about the life you've lived and not about the movies you've watched.  

It's easier to build conflict around something external and movie-familiar like a zombie attack. You have your horror set pieces and you move them around the characters and that's your conflict.  With dramas your set pieces are almost always character driven and they force you to write scenes that tell a lot about you.  If a writer isn't sure about his/her voice then drama is not the genre he/she would want to write.

Quoted from Tierney It's easier to build conflict around something external and movie-familiar like a zombie attack. You have your horror set pieces and you move them around the characters and that's your conflict.  With dramas your set pieces are almost always character driven and they force you to write scenes that tell a lot about you.  If a writer isn't sure about his/her voice then drama is not the genre he/she would want to write.

Which is why so many people choose to write horror instead of drama and why I find most horror movies incredibly boring.

Quoted from Takeshi Which is why so many people choose to write horror instead of drama and why I find most horror movies incredibly boring.

Horror movies are, generally, boring because there is rarely anything unique about them.  Look at the zombie scripts that are written here.  For the most part, the biggest difference in them is where the humans hide out and figure out a plan.  All the characters are two-dimensional and the writer puts more thought into 'cool' splatter visuals than into the characters and story.


Phil