Quoted from chism Strippers, Jordan? Honestly, what would Jesus say?

He'd say, "Goddamn bitch, work that ass!!!"

Quoted from Shelton I think people should treat this place like a bar/pub, and refrain from talking about religion or politics.

Quite. This thread started out as with "isn't this a funny joke"  and quickly descended into a "ban all religion".

I would just like to point out that the whole point of religion is that it is about belief and faith not having things proven scientifically.

There are plenty of bigots in religion, and plenty of closed minds, and plenty of people who want to tell you what to do and what to believe, and want to ban things they don't like.

But there are also plenty of atheists who are bigots, have closed minds and want to tell you what to believe and what to do, and want to ban things they don't like.

It has little to do with the merits or otherwise of particular religions or atheism and everything to do with human nature.

Quoted from Niles_Crane I would just like to point out that the whole point of religion is that it is about belief and faith not having things proven scientifically.

Sorry Niles but I completely disagree. That's like saying Tony Blair meant well and was a lovely man, becasue that's what he wanted.

Or banks are about fulfilling dreams and customer service. That's what they want you to think. When actually, it's all about profit. And profit alone. Sadly.

Religion, like business, is about perpetuation of the organisation, money, power and control.

RV

Oops. I just saw Shelton's post and seem to have mentioned both.

Yeah, you're probably right Shelton. I've said my bit on here about them. I'll gracefully bow out and refrain from posting on this thread from now on.

For a lot of religious people it's not enough for them to have their beliefs. Everyone else has to believe it as well. Or die.

There is always Frisbeeism - the belief that when you die, your soul goes up on the roof and gets stuck.

Quoted from Matt Chisholm For a lot of religious people it's not enough for them to have their beliefs. Everyone else has to believe it as well. Or die.

You don't have to be religious for this argument to apply.

Stalin?
Chairman Mao?
Hitler?
Pol Pot?

Indeed - the Nazis' exterminated 250,000 Jehovah's Witnesses because of their religion's refusal to bear arms for the Reich.

Let's hope this isn't another German example some people would like to follow.

Blaming Jesus Christ for the horrors perpetrated in his name is a bit like blaming Einstein for Hiroshima.

Quoted from Niles_Crane I would just like to point out that the whole point of religion is that it is about belief and faith not having things proven scientifically.

Religion is and always has been about control.  What you are talking about here is spirituality and that is something entirely personal and different.

I don't know why about once a year we have to have some big dust-up about religion.

This one has been mostly civil -- but not all of them are.

Then half the people start shouting to delete the posts -- while the other half get mad that the mods won't let anybody discuss "grown-up" topics and treat people like children.

I hate religion threads.

That's not a bust on Tommy -- who would have guessed that even Scientology was an off-topic?

I am not gonna tell anybody not to talk about it -- but would ask that people generally try to avoid the topic.

Quoted from bert I am not gonna tell anybody not to talk about it -- but would ask that people generally try to avoid the topic.

Can we go back to the homosexuality thread then  

Allahu Akbar!

Quoted from bert I don't know why about once a year we have to have some big dust-up about religion. I am not gonna tell anybody not to talk about it -- but would ask that people generally try to avoid the topic.

Probably something to do with impending festivities!

I have said my piece anyway, and like RV will now bow out gracefully.

At least we managed to avoid death threats.

There are a couple of brilliant posts in this thread. This one:

Quoted from Niles_Crane Quite. This thread started out as with "isn't this a funny joke"  and quickly descended into a "ban all religion". I would just like to point out that the whole point of religion is that it is about belief and faith not having things proven scientifically. There are plenty of bigots in religion, and plenty of closed minds, and plenty of people who want to tell you what to do and what to believe, and want to ban things they don't like. But there are also plenty of atheists who are bigots, have closed minds and want to tell you what to believe and what to do, and want to ban things they don't like. It has little to do with the merits or otherwise of particular religions or atheism and everything to do with human nature.

And this one:

Quoted from rendevous Sorry Niles but I completely disagree. That's like saying Tony Blair meant well and was a lovely man, because that's what he wanted. Or banks are about fulfilling dreams and customer service. That's what they want you to think. When actually, it's all about profit. And profit alone. Sadly. Religion, like business, is about perpetuation of the organisation, money, power and control. RV Oops. I just saw Shelton's post and seem to have mentioned both. Yeah, you're probably right Shelton. I've said my bit on here about them. I'll gracefully bow out and refrain from posting on this thread from now on.

I agree with both of these posts because they're both true. In this world we simply do not have mere black and white, but a whole lot of gray/grey.

All of the contradictions that exist are in fact necessary and man must make his own discernments and judgments against himself, within himself and by contrast, he must exist within a "society" to which he is accountable to because "no man is an island".

As such, boundaries need to exist. You might not want to use the word "religious". You might substitute the word, "law", if it will make you happier.

However, laws were made to be broken. Why? Because:

A known mistake is better than an unknown truth.

If it weren't so, then parents would simply not allow their children to grow up and make those mistakes and learn from them; therefore:

While we exist here, we must play the game and the flaws that exist within us have been given to us for a reason. It doesn't make us "bad" people, it makes us "real" people.

Probably the worst condition is that of a "religious person" who thinks they are saved with their good deeds, and what else do they need?" It's a false kind of state because a nice and cozy little world is not where we are at this point. We simply don't have enough strength to be truly caring. Even our greatest altruists, (who might even be an atheist who knows?) do their altruism because it makes themselves feel good on a very particular level that is probably the height of egoism when you think about it.

Right now, our responsibility is to each other. Period. No matter what, we all need to get over ourselves and dig deep for that effort, because we are altogether on one planet in one ship and we are all star stuff.

The End.  

Sandra

Yeah, I wanted to let this thread go, but this line bothered me. =(

Quoted from Niles_Crane But there are also plenty of atheists who are bigots, have closed minds and want to tell you what to believe and what to do, and want to ban things they don't like.

I'm an athiest. I never tell anyone what to believe.  Usually, I don't even mention to people who bring up religious topics how outlandish it would be to believe in a God (in the usual form portrayed by different religions). I typically just keep that in my head and nod and smile.

However... I'm also not one of those people who doesn't like a religion and tells people they can't display it. If you love your religion, great, let the whole world know, if you want.

But, we get into problems when:

A) People's religions aren't "respected" enough so they have to bring down other people's. A great several examples of it have happened near where I live in the recent weeks. In one specific occasion, a group of Jewish people put up a Menorah (I think I spelled it correctly. If not, sorry) in a public park. The town was fine with it but, only allowed it for one day, so other people could get their turns, too. So, the people who put up the Menorah complained to city hall about a sign that was put up on a fire station saying, "Merry Christmas". I wish I still had the exact quote, but it was a couple weeks ago, but one of the Menorah people was quoted as saying something akin to, "If we can't display our religious pride on city property, neither should they."

B) People try and tell people that their religion is best. This one happens alot in Christianity. But, it does come from them all. There isn't much else that needs to be said here. I'm sure, at least in the United States (not certain if they do this across the Atlantic or not), that everyone has been visited in their home with either a Jehovah's Witness or a Mormon. I get several of each every year. And, every year, I open my door, listen to them talk, take their pamphlet and toss it after they leave. You should be friendly about it, though, if they do that to you. I mean, they mean well so just do whatever you want after they're gone.

That's all and sorry for the ginormous walls of text. Not my usual style. =)

-Sean

I don't believe in God but I believe in the general message in the bible. Be good to others, let he who is without sin cast the first stone, though shall not murder etc. Those teachings were pretty much what took us from the savage-stage to the civilized-stage and basically made us what we are today. Now, in no way can I condone how that message was spread back in the day but that's another can of worms.

The old testament, though, is not my cup of tea - this has to be one of the most horrific and jugdemental texts ever written. Please, that one just needs to be put back in the drawer where it belongs.

Regarding Scientology, pfff, who cares? They are what they are and as long as what they're doing is legal then, by all means, have fun. I have no sympathy for people who falls for their tricks and schemes, if you walk in there blind with no cane then you had it coming anyway.

Be open minded - but question everything.

Quoted from sniper Those teachings were pretty much what took us from the savage-stage to the civilized-stage

Civilization started with the invention of beer!