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Scientology is no less negative or silly as any other religion.
It is the only one that when you hear the story, you laugh out loud but still about as believable as any other.
The idea of the contest is funny however if it is legit they shouldn't run it as anonymous and ask for all your information just to enter the contest (Only if you win) seems kind of odd to me.
Can't say I agree. But I take the point. Seriously I do. Part of me does agree. However, there is something seriously wrong with Scientology, I have studied their litigious behaviour, their tactics against complaints and their behaviour against detractors, Anonymous and Legion in particular.
Islam, RC Church of Rome etc don't behave in quite the same way. And we all know about the Catholic's current troubles with fiddling and Ireland. See Newsarse for details for their plan of action.
I can't see a problem with the competition at all. Hey, make Youtube vids? Yeah? Then go here and peiss these eejits off and, get paid!
Scientology is no less negative or silly as any other religion.
It is the only one that when you hear the story, you laugh out loud but still about as believable as any other.
The idea of the contest is funny however if it is legit they shouldn't run it as anonymous and ask for all your information just to enter the contest (Only if you win) seems kind of odd to me.
Seems kind of odd to me that someone thinks "religion" is silly.
Sandra Elstee
As in:
DorkoJorko Who are those humans?
Sandra People that don't believe in themselves.
DorkoJorko What do you mean... Don't believe in themselves?
Scientology is no less negative or silly as any other religion.
It is the only one that when you hear the story, you laugh out loud but still about as believable as any other.
The idea of the contest is funny however if it is legit they shouldn't run it as anonymous and ask for all your information just to enter the contest (Only if you win) seems kind of odd to me.
You're right of course. The origin story is not more absurd than most of the things found in religious texts.
However we're fortunate enough to have seen the genesis of scientology and know that it's just a pyramid scheme.
I would say most scientologists are benevolent, it's just that there are darker sides to these things as there tends to be with most organised religions.
They are also extraordinarily powerful. Because of the sheer amount of money they control and the power they have over peoples minds, they are able to infiltrate Government at all levels and push through policy to further legitimise and entrech themselves.
Personally I woudl take the German approach and ban them,but it's too late for that now in the UK.
To be honest, at times I think we should just ban religion full stop in Europe. Can't believe that some many Political debates and issues are still about Theology in this day and age. We seem to be sliding back into the Dark Ages at times.
To be honest, at times I think we should just ban religion full stop in Europe.
Why just Europe?
I'd have to agree with W, Scientology really is no more ridiculous that most religions, especially when you put it up against things like Mormons and their magic underwear and what not. I guess Scientology is just more overtly funny and outlandish, but as Bill Maher says the newer religions always are more insane because by the time they get to the trough all the good crazy has been taken.
But I don't think the story of Xenu dropping billions of aliens into volcanoes and blasting them with H-bombs is any more insane and ridiculous than an invisible sky god raping an Earth woman and impregnating her with himself so he can send himself on a suicide mission.
But I think Alan Shore says it better than I ever could.
I'd have to agree with W, Scientology really is no more ridiculous that most religions, especially when you put it up against things like Mormons and their magic underwear and what not. I guess Scientology is just more overtly funny and outlandish, but as Bill Maher says the newer religions always are more insane because by the time they get to the trough all the good crazy has been taken.
But I don't think the story of Xenu dropping billions of aliens into volcanoes and blasting them with H-bombs is any more insane and ridiculous than an invisible sky god raping an Earth woman and impregnating her with himself so he can send himself on a suicide mission.
But I think Alan Shore says it better than I ever could.
I wouldn't want to dictate what other cultures should do, but I feel able to voice an opinion about my own.
I don't have a problem with people believing what they want in the comfort of their own homes, but when Religion becomes a huge structure it becomes harmful in my opinion, because it seeks to control the thought processes of everyone. They all invest large amounts of money in order to force Governments to bow to their wishes (eg teaching Creationism in British schools). They are constantly involved in an ideological war trying to pervert humanity's progress.
Religion set back our progress by hundreds of years until the invention of the printing press made it possible to disseminate information faster than the Church could burn people at the stake just for telling the truth.
Often people twist Religious texts for political agendas or selfish means. Even those with good intentions interpret things differently. In the end even the simplest, most seemingly obvious point of principle can be interpreted to mean anything you want it to do.
Perversions end up in the texts and become part of standard practice.
Look at the Child abuse scandal involving the Catholic Church. That is a DIRECT result of their teachings.
They create the Virgin Mary. A paragon of womanhood who is impossible to live up to. It is sexist because no woman can aspire to it, it's physically impossible
It also creates the situation whereby sexual purity is held in esteem and therefore female sexuality becomes seen as perverse and dirty.
The men then try and deny their most fundamental sexual instincts, the need to procreate, and attempt to live a chaste life. Psychologically this is incredibly dangerous as we have seen. The instincts will merely come out in another way, often the most corrupt and heinous way imaginable.
The problem isn't just confined to Catholicism, similar perversions are found in almost all religions. Eg the separation of Muslims from non-Muslims in the Koran, a tenement of the religion that can only logically lead to conflict and intolerance for all time.
In the end, in order to be a good person, it seems that you at the very least have to discount large parts of any given scripture, but of course, once you are putting yourself in a position whereby you are judging for yourself what is right and what is wrong, you are already by definition discounting the "correctness" of that particular Religion.
Anyway, Peace and Love. Sorry if anyone is offended.
PS If anyone wants to commune with God, I'd suggest doing what most Prophets seem to do and just go out into the wilderness for a certain time. Whether it's up a Mountain, or in a cave or in the desert. No point reading it second hand.
I don't have a problem with people believing what they want in the comfort of their own homes, but when Religion becomes a huge structure it becomes harmful in my opinion, because it seeks to control the thought processes of everyone. They all invest large amounts of money in order to force Governments to bow to their wishes (eg teaching Creationism in British schools). They are constantly involved in an ideological war trying to pervert humanity's progress.
They
are constantly involved in an ideological war, trying to pervert humanity's progress.
Dec,
You are a sweetheart, in my mind, but I'm going to take your quote and run with it...
***
The early portion of your words:
...but when Religion becomes a huge structure it becomes harmful in my opinion,
It seems the problem is:
That it's NOT religion that is this huge structure that is becoming harmful right now-- but rather "secularism".
We live in a world of limits. I mean: where twenty degrees Celsius is comfortable.
Religion imposes laws and limits. If we don't like them, then that's our problem.
Which hearkens back to what you've said:
...but when Religion becomes a huge structure it becomes harmful in my opinion,
My question is:
What is the harm in "Structure"?
My inner feeling is that "Religion" isn't the problem, but it's "Secularism"-- that is the problem.
When we reject the consideration for boundaries, then we reject life. Why?
Because life is built on the basis of polarities and that means we must have opposites.
In this world, we need both religion and secularism; therefore there exists no argument in actuality, but only in virtuality.
Being secular doesn't mean that there are no boundaries, that's ridiculous. We assign boundaries to ourselves. We don't need God to tell us what is right or wrong. Just because we don't think life was started by an invisible man living in space doesn't mean that we reject life. That's a statement that is completely typical of the arrogance and condescending nature of religion. "You can't be as happy as I am, because I've found Jesus and you haven't". Give me a fuckin' break.
The problem is that some people simply don't want to fit into this "structure" that religion imposes. The harm in overgrown "structures" of any kind is that they put boundaries in our freedom in one way or another.
This does not only apply to religion, but to many different social problems like the abortion issue, the gay marriage debate, etc. All of which are at their core Religious and Political issues. This is the reason why politics and religion are pointless to argue and debate about. No one willl change his/her mind about it and the result is only useless bickering. This is the reason nobody can ever reach a friggin' agreenment in public schools as if whether or not people should say prayers in graduation ceremonies and the like.
The government, I feel, is a necessary evil to maintain a degree of order in an otherwise wild society. But religion, the way it is now, is nothing more than a perverted, evil and worthless thing causing troubles which would not exist without it. Churches, all of them, are organized more as businesses than centers of faith nowadays, anyway. I'm all for believing in God and whatnot, but don't try to shove your beliefs down people's throats. I do believe in God, but if anyone knocked on my door reading me fragments of the Bible, I would slam it in their faces...not politely, either.
Quoted Text
In the end, in order to be a good person, it seems that you at the very least have to discount large parts of any given scripture, but of course, once you are putting yourself in a position whereby you are judging for yourself what is right and what is wrong, you are already by definition discounting the "correctness" of that particular Religion.
Exactly my thoughts. All ancient holy scriptures are perverse and bigoted in one way or another. Some have also been tainted further by men who had no business doing so in the first place ...
[*cough*King James*cough*homophobe*cough*]
...Yeah, ain't I subtle?
I simply cannot believe some of the more religious people out there who are intolerant of bigotry and violence when their Bible not only advocates it but ENCOURAGES it. Hypocrisy at its finest. Now, of course, this could simply boil down to fanatism, and people like that would exist with or without religion.
But what's sad about this is that the good Catholics/Christians that reject the bigoted, sexist content of the Bible are essentially rejecting their religion by going against the Bible's word. Thus, true goodness can never be achieved from any holy scipture, but rather through the actions of individuals forging their own path to virtue with the choices they make in everyday life. One needs no holy book for that.
But yeah, like I said -- never argue politics or religion. People always get angry and upset at one another at one point if you do. Damn...I really should follow my own advice.
Being secular doesn't mean that there are no boundaries, that's ridiculous. We assign boundaries to ourselves. We don't need God to tell us what is right or wrong. Just because we don't think life was started by an invisible man living in space doesn't mean that we reject life. That's a statement that is completely typical of the arrogance and condescending nature of religion. "You can't be as happy as I am, because I've found Jesus and you haven't". Give me a fuckin' break.
I didn't use the name "Jesus" in my post.
Te-he!!! But YOU DID.
I wonder what THAT means.
Laugh out Loud--
Matt Chisholm says,
Just because we don't think life was started by an invisible man living in space doesn't mean that we reject life. That's a statement that is completely typical of the arrogance and condescending nature of religion. "You can't be as happy as I am, because I've found Jesus and you haven't". Give me a fuckin' break.
My question is:
Do you you have a marvelous answer to "How life was started?"
In all honesty, I think creationism and science both have some merit. Science can be proven and calculated, as opposed to creationism which is only based on faith. But quite frankly, neither of them satisfy me, so I believe in both in the meantime. Seriously, the question for me is not so much "how life was started," but rather "why" and "for which purpose?" Neither theory makes any sense to me whatsoever. With creationism, life involves man-made concepts like salvation, paradise and whatnot; but that still explains nothing. Science is simply hollow and its only explanation is "how we are here?" But WHY? That is the true question. What is the point of "intelligent beings" being placed on a planet only to suffer an ongoing mysery known as life with a few pleasurable, tender moments throughout? It makes no sense whatsoever. Ah, now I'm confusing myself.
No I don't have a marvelous answer for how life started. I have no idea how it started. But just because I can't explain it rationally doesn't mean there isn't a rational explanation. I have no problem with saying those three magical words that religious people seem to not be able to say: I DON'T KNOW.
There are many things that science and rationality cannot explain. Yet. But compared with the age of religion, science is a baby. It has to be given a chance to age and mature, then perhaps it can start to find answers to the larger question.
No, Sandra. I don't know how life started. But that doesn't mean I have to make up a ridiculous story about an invisible, vengeful, jealous, misogynist homophobe who snapped his fingers and suddenly made the universe appear.
There are many things that science and rationality cannot explain. Yet. But compared with the age of religion, science is a baby. It has to be given a chance to age and mature, then perhaps it can start to find answers to the larger question.
That is a very good point. Science is indeed a rather new concept compared to religion. Perhaps it'll find the answers we're looking for. Or it might reach a dead end just like religion. Truthfully, I don't think the meaning and purpose of life is a question that can EVER be answered.
In all honesty, I think creationism and science both have some merit. Science can be proven and calculated, as opposed to creationism which is only based on faith. But quite frankly, neither of them satisfy me, so I believe in both in the meantime. Seriously, the question for me is not so much "how life was started," but rather "why" and "for which purpose?" Neither theory makes any sense to me whatsoever. With creationism, life involves man-made concepts like salvation, paradise and whatnot; but that still explains nothing. Science is simply hollow and its only explanation is "how we are here?" But WHY? That is the true question. What is the point of "intelligent beings" being placed on a planet only to suffer an ongoing mysery known as life with a few pleasurable, tender moments throughout? It makes no sense whatsoever. Ah, now I'm confusing myself.
--Julio
My dear Julio,
Don't be confused. We are are going through the same trail and it's beautiful in the long run.
However, something I feel needs mentioning is that the Bible is indeed rather scientifically accurate in spots. For example, I am fairly certain the Old Testament refers to the Earth as round, something which wasn't discovered and agreed upon until much later. How did they know this? Hell if I know.
So in certain ways, the Bible is an accurate piece of work, magic aside. Pretty damn accurate for a thousand-year-old piece of text, actually. A lot of ruins recently discovered have been revealed to be cities mentioned in the bible which just a few years ago were considered to have been about as real as Atlantis, so Matt, don't toss that book aside just yet. Trust me, it is a good read. You just have to deal with its dated ideals.
No, Sandra. I don't know how life started. But that doesn't mean I have to make up a ridiculous story about an invisible, vengeful, jealous, misogynist homophobe who snapped his fingers and suddenly made the universe appear.
But, that's part of the Old Testament. They revised it because people apparently didn't like the ending in the first one. So, they did a reboot of the series.
Scientology is no less negative or silly as any other religion. It is the only one that when you hear the story, you laugh out loud but still about as believable as any other.
I agree Wes. That reminded me of a quote I read this week:
"I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours.” - Stephen Roberts
But, that's part of the Old Testament. They revised it because people apparently didn't like the ending in the first one. So, they did a reboot of the series.
Oh I forgot that religious people are allowed to pick and choose their beliefs at their convenience. My apologies.
I think people should treat this place like a bar/pub, and refrain from talking about religion or politics.
Quite. This thread started out as with "isn't this a funny joke" and quickly descended into a "ban all religion".
I would just like to point out that the whole point of religion is that it is about belief and faith not having things proven scientifically.
There are plenty of bigots in religion, and plenty of closed minds, and plenty of people who want to tell you what to do and what to believe, and want to ban things they don't like.
But there are also plenty of atheists who are bigots, have closed minds and want to tell you what to believe and what to do, and want to ban things they don't like.
It has little to do with the merits or otherwise of particular religions or atheism and everything to do with human nature.
I would just like to point out that the whole point of religion is that it is about belief and faith not having things proven scientifically.
Sorry Niles but I completely disagree. That's like saying Tony Blair meant well and was a lovely man, becasue that's what he wanted.
Or banks are about fulfilling dreams and customer service. That's what they want you to think. When actually, it's all about profit. And profit alone. Sadly.
Religion, like business, is about perpetuation of the organisation, money, power and control.
RV
Oops. I just saw Shelton's post and seem to have mentioned both.
Yeah, you're probably right Shelton. I've said my bit on here about them. I'll gracefully bow out and refrain from posting on this thread from now on.
I don't know why about once a year we have to have some big dust-up about religion.
This one has been mostly civil -- but not all of them are.
Then half the people start shouting to delete the posts -- while the other half get mad that the mods won't let anybody discuss "grown-up" topics and treat people like children.
I hate religion threads.
That's not a bust on Tommy -- who would have guessed that even Scientology was an off-topic?
I am not gonna tell anybody not to talk about it -- but would ask that people generally try to avoid the topic.
There are a couple of brilliant posts in this thread. This one:
Quoted from Niles_Crane
Quite. This thread started out as with "isn't this a funny joke" and quickly descended into a "ban all religion".
I would just like to point out that the whole point of religion is that it is about belief and faith not having things proven scientifically.
There are plenty of bigots in religion, and plenty of closed minds, and plenty of people who want to tell you what to do and what to believe, and want to ban things they don't like.
But there are also plenty of atheists who are bigots, have closed minds and want to tell you what to believe and what to do, and want to ban things they don't like.
It has little to do with the merits or otherwise of particular religions or atheism and everything to do with human nature.
Sorry Niles but I completely disagree. That's like saying Tony Blair meant well and was a lovely man, because that's what he wanted.
Or banks are about fulfilling dreams and customer service. That's what they want you to think. When actually, it's all about profit. And profit alone. Sadly.
Religion, like business, is about perpetuation of the organisation, money, power and control.
RV
Oops. I just saw Shelton's post and seem to have mentioned both.
Yeah, you're probably right Shelton. I've said my bit on here about them. I'll gracefully bow out and refrain from posting on this thread from now on.
I agree with both of these posts because they're both true. In this world we simply do not have mere black and white, but a whole lot of gray/grey.
All of the contradictions that exist are in fact necessary and man must make his own discernments and judgments against himself, within himself and by contrast, he must exist within a "society" to which he is accountable to because "no man is an island".
As such, boundaries need to exist. You might not want to use the word "religious". You might substitute the word, "law", if it will make you happier.
However, laws were made to be broken. Why? Because:
A known mistake is better than an unknown truth.
If it weren't so, then parents would simply not allow their children to grow up and make those mistakes and learn from them; therefore:
While we exist here, we must play the game and the flaws that exist within us have been given to us for a reason. It doesn't make us "bad" people, it makes us "real" people.
Probably the worst condition is that of a "religious person" who thinks they are saved with their good deeds, and what else do they need?" It's a false kind of state because a nice and cozy little world is not where we are at this point. We simply don't have enough strength to be truly caring. Even our greatest altruists, (who might even be an atheist who knows?) do their altruism because it makes themselves feel good on a very particular level that is probably the height of egoism when you think about it.
Right now, our responsibility is to each other. Period. No matter what, we all need to get over ourselves and dig deep for that effort, because we are altogether on one planet in one ship and we are all star stuff.
Yeah, I wanted to let this thread go, but this line bothered me. =(
Quoted from Niles_Crane
But there are also plenty of atheists who are bigots, have closed minds and want to tell you what to believe and what to do, and want to ban things they don't like.
I'm an athiest. I never tell anyone what to believe. Usually, I don't even mention to people who bring up religious topics how outlandish it would be to believe in a God (in the usual form portrayed by different religions). I typically just keep that in my head and nod and smile.
However... I'm also not one of those people who doesn't like a religion and tells people they can't display it. If you love your religion, great, let the whole world know, if you want.
But, we get into problems when:
A) People's religions aren't "respected" enough so they have to bring down other people's. A great several examples of it have happened near where I live in the recent weeks. In one specific occasion, a group of Jewish people put up a Menorah (I think I spelled it correctly. If not, sorry) in a public park. The town was fine with it but, only allowed it for one day, so other people could get their turns, too. So, the people who put up the Menorah complained to city hall about a sign that was put up on a fire station saying, "Merry Christmas". I wish I still had the exact quote, but it was a couple weeks ago, but one of the Menorah people was quoted as saying something akin to, "If we can't display our religious pride on city property, neither should they."
B) People try and tell people that their religion is best. This one happens alot in Christianity. But, it does come from them all. There isn't much else that needs to be said here. I'm sure, at least in the United States (not certain if they do this across the Atlantic or not), that everyone has been visited in their home with either a Jehovah's Witness or a Mormon. I get several of each every year. And, every year, I open my door, listen to them talk, take their pamphlet and toss it after they leave. You should be friendly about it, though, if they do that to you. I mean, they mean well so just do whatever you want after they're gone.
That's all and sorry for the ginormous walls of text. Not my usual style. =)
I don't believe in God but I believe in the general message in the bible. Be good to others, let he who is without sin cast the first stone, though shall not murder etc. Those teachings were pretty much what took us from the savage-stage to the civilized-stage and basically made us what we are today. Now, in no way can I condone how that message was spread back in the day but that's another can of worms.
The old testament, though, is not my cup of tea - this has to be one of the most horrific and jugdemental texts ever written. Please, that one just needs to be put back in the drawer where it belongs.
Regarding Scientology, pfff, who cares? They are what they are and as long as what they're doing is legal then, by all means, have fun. I have no sympathy for people who falls for their tricks and schemes, if you walk in there blind with no cane then you had it coming anyway.
Be open minded - but question everything.
Down in the hole / Jesus tries to crack a smile / Beneath another shovel load
I'm an athiest. I never tell anyone what to believe.
Sean -
I have absolutely no problems with atheists. Good luck to you! I did not say that all atheists are bigots.
Your attitude is commendable and I too will talk to Mormon's and Witnesses (yes, they do come door to door here) about their religion - as you say, there is no need to be rude to people who mean well, whatever your opinion of them (and mine is pretty low).
It may have escaped everyone's attention, but I never actually stated my religious beliefs here - my point was that you cannot blame everything on religion, but have to accept that it is people who pervert beliefs for their own ends, whether based on a bible or a scientific text.
I have absolutely no problems with atheists. Good luck to you! I did not say that all atheists are bigots.
Your attitude is commendable and I too will talk to Mormon's and Witnesses (yes, they do come door to door here) about their religion - as you say, there is no need to be rude to people who mean well, whatever your opinion of them (and mine is pretty low).
It may have escaped everyone's attention, but I never actually stated my religious beliefs here - my point was that you cannot blame everything on religion, but have to accept that it is people who pervert beliefs for their own ends, whether based on a bible or a scientific text.
Anyway, I'm off again.
And, the only problem I had with what you said, wasn't even a problem. Plenty of athiests, from my experience, are bigots in a religion-based sense. Maybe I was upset because I was wrong. I don't like being wrong. =)
For the sake of discussion and what this thread was actually started about, there's a key difference that separates Scientology from the rest and it's not the ideology. Information on every other religion is available to the public to access and interpret as they choose. Scientology withholds information (or tries to anyway) and makes its members pay before they have access to its services.
Quoted from Niles_Crane
my point was that you cannot blame everything on religion, but have to accept that it is people who pervert beliefs for their own ends, whether based on a bible or a scientific text.
I don't like to get involved in these sorts of threads but I do follow them for the sake of curiosity and I have to say this is the smartest thing I've read so far. The way I see it, anytime people with a common goal/belief try to organize on a mass scale, it's to the detriment of the rest of society because so many people take things too seriously and can't, for the life of them, respect someone else's opinion.
The way I see it, anytime people with a common goal/belief try to organize on a mass scale, it's to the detriment of the rest of society because so many people take things too seriously and can't, for the life of them, respect someone else's opinion.
What about trade unions? If it wasn’t for them a lot more people would be working under appalling conditions and for less money.
I had the same thought as James. When people collect themselves into groups, especially groups that believe themselves to be the holders of some sort of "truth," be they religious or political -- as for politics, communists come to mind -- there is a danger that they will attempt to foist that "truth" upon others.
If a group doesn't allow for it's beliefs to be questioned, then in my opionion, it's best to stay away from said group.
What about when people organize on a mass scale to raise funds for people who are starving or have been the victims of a natural disaster?
But I get the gist. As one dude said on another site "It's all too easy for people whose "eyes are opened" to one set of dogma to fall right into another set of dogma and look for new transgressors to punish".
What about when people organize on a mass scale to raise funds for people who are starving or have been the victims of a natural disaster?
The difference is, in such cases, like Katrina, the help doesn't come with strings attatched. No one is saying, "we'll help you IF... fill in what ever IF you want, be it religious or politcal.
Most people simply want to help others. Bravo to them! But some people, if they help you, they have expectations that you, in the end, being helped by them, will further their cause. They want you to convert... and if you don't, they might cut off what ever help they offer.
I had the same thought as James. When people collect themselves into groups, especially groups that believe themselves to be the holders of some sort of "truth," be they religious or political -- as for politics, communists come to mind -- there is a danger that they will attempt to foist that "truth" upon others.
If a group doesn't allow for it's beliefs to be questioned, then in my opionion, it's best to stay away from said group.
Seth,
Very good. We're getting into a n interesting part here because what I've learned is that:
We can't stay away from
"Our groups"... Like you guys here. I can't stay away from you for better or for worse. Why? I don't know. Except that I feel a family vibe that I can't explain.
I'll share some of my studies today with you.
Today it was the Hebrew letter, Nun.
As you know, everything in Life has it's polar opposite which gives us our feeling of reality.
Here, with the letter Nun, we deal with two properties that are very resourceful to us and if we acknowledge them, we will feel how they teach us.
Norah Tehilot is associated with "great praises". It comes from the letter Nun and yet:
So too does:
Nefilah, which means "fall" and also exists within Nun...
Have you heard the saying that
"Pride comes before the fall?"
You probably have, but more importantly, if you've witnessed it in your life, then you really can relate.
I know it's a digression, but with regard to your words on "groups"...
We truly are "one" group. We might have all kinds of different quirks and quarks, but we are truly the same. The best thing is that our "apparent" differences are such blessings.
Can any of us imagine a world where everyone is just like ourselves, believing in exactly what we believe in, having the same personality traits? Truly...
If we think about it, that would be a very boring world.
We truly are "one" group. We might have all kinds of different quirks and quarks, but we are truly the same. The best thing is that our "apparent" differences are such blessings.
Can any of us imagine a world where everyone is just like ourselves, believing in exactly what we believe in, having the same personality traits? Truly...
If we think about it, that would be a very boring world.
We are very lucky indeed.
Sandra
Yea. I think we're all basically the same. We all want the same things. To be loved, accepted, understood.
And I appreciate differences. I'm learning too, anyway. This is all on an individual basis though.
When people collect themselves, and think they know what's best for everyone, then we turn into warring Baboons.
are constantly involved in an ideological war, trying to pervert humanity's progress.
Dec,
You are a sweetheart, in my mind, but I'm going to take your quote and run with it...
***
The early portion of your words:
...but when Religion becomes a huge structure it becomes harmful in my opinion,
It seems the problem is:
That it's NOT religion that is this huge structure that is becoming harmful right now-- but rather "secularism".
We live in a world of limits. I mean: where twenty degrees Celsius is comfortable.
Religion imposes laws and limits. If we don't like them, then that's our problem.
Which hearkens back to what you've said:
...but when Religion becomes a huge structure it becomes harmful in my opinion,
My question is:
What is the harm in "Structure"?
My inner feeling is that "Religion" isn't the problem, but it's "Secularism"-- that is the problem.
When we reject the consideration for boundaries, then we reject life. Why?
Because life is built on the basis of polarities and that means we must have opposites.
In this world, we need both religion and secularism; therefore there exists no argument in actuality, but only in virtuality.
Sandra
Secularism is the problem?
No offence, but no way. The greatest thing about modern life is the belief that Religion should be separated from Government.
It means that decisions can be made on evidence, logic, reason and compassion and not on the tenements of some medieval literature that's been changed throughout time beyond all recognition and sense.
I understand where you are coming from regarding conflict creating new ideas. The problem is Religion does not change, it does not present new ideas. All it does is try to drag things back to their particular Dogma.
It's like a 2000 year old millstone hanging round everybodies necks.
We are continually having to relive the same fights over and over again, instead of moving on with intelligent Government.
The great irony is that Secularism follows "God's Law" better than most Religions. It allows for tolerance and says that discrimination cannot take place on Religious grounds.
To quote Jesus:
"Then give to Caesar what is Caesar's, and to God what is God's" (Although like all religious Doctrine, you can interpet it however you want).
Ultimately secularism allows the very debate you say is so important. It allows everybody to have their say and debate what should be done, it also allows people of differing faiths and beliefs to live together as equals. It's just that you need to put forward intelligent, considered reasons rather than "The Frog Monster told me".
Ultimately, regardless of Religion/structure/whatever, Dogma is bad.
It means that you are entrenched in a view and can't change with reason or logic.
The peculiar danger with religion is that it is not only Dogmatic (particularly Monotheistic Religion), it also grants the follower the belief that their view is backed by a Divine Power. A very dangerous and potentially explosive mix as we have seen in history and in the very recent past.
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