Thought I'd start a new thread here on the debate over Pro writers having an unfair advantage in getting their scripts produced over Non Pro writers.

I'll start with 2 fairly recent examples that I doubt anyone will be able to disagree with.

Both happen to come from Wes Craven.

In 2007, Craven and his son wrote the script for The Hills Have Eyes 2 in approximately 2 weeks.  The finished product was a complete fucking mess that virtually everyone hated.  Budgeted at $15 Million, it did actually churn out a profit, and hauled in $37 Million WW.  But this was due to the success of the equally budgeted, but far superior Alexandre Aja written The Hills Have Eyes remake the prior year, which churned out $70 Million WW.

No way in Hell this abomination would have been made if anyone else without Craven's clout had written it, as it was a complete and utter joke of an effort.

In 2010, Craven wrote and directed My Soul to Take.  The movie was a complete and utter disaster, budgeted at $25 Million, and taking in a wimpy $21 Million WW.  Not even Craven's name could get butts into theater seats, and critics and fans alike all tore this piece of shit a new asshole.

Again, if anyone else, without Craven's name recognition had submitted this script, it would have found the circular file faster than a fly finds a fresh piece of shit.

Agreed, but it's not the script that getting the film Produced. It's Wes Craven.

He became Wes Craven by writing Nightmare on Elm Street...one of the greatest horrors of all time....after he'd written Last House on the Left which caused a big stir.

And let's not forget...he;s the guy that wrote the Hills Have Eyes in the first pace back in 77!!!

When it comes to writer director features there's a completely different screenplay standard than for that of a pure spec script and even a pro script.

So there's three standards, really.

But Rick, this is exactly the entire point of this discussion.

Craven is a Pro writer.

He wrote these 2 scripts.

They're both abysmally horrific.

They both got made, and if anyone else had written them, they'd both be shredded and laughed at.

The playing field is all about money.

You write something that will bring the dollars in, you'll be the next big thing.

That's the only playing field there is...it's the only game in town.

Quoted from Dreamscale But Rick, this is exactly the entire point of this discussion. Craven is a Pro writer. He wrote these 2 scripts. They're both abysmally horrific. They both got made, and if anyone else had written them, they'd both be shredded and laughed at.

Have you read them? Send them to me via email.

Craven did not direct Hills Have Eyes 2 (2007).

My Soul to Take did not make money.

Quoted from Dreamscale Craven did not direct Hills Have Eyes 2 (2007). My Soul to Take did not make money.

I'm not sure of your point.

Craven is probably about ten billion dollars in credit with the studios after all his films have been taken into consideration. The studios can afford to let him squander a few mill here and there.

Almost every one is still shown on TV to this day. Hills have Eyes was on last night (original).

Rick, how can you say you're not sure what my point is?  I don't get it.

You're doing the same thing you continually do.  You're not listening to anyone's point and you're continually defending every Pro writer's every effort, it seems.

I have not read the scripts, nor do I have them.  I can only go on what I viewed as a finished product.  It's a concept.  It's a story.  It's a plot.  It's certain characters doing and saying certain things.

Both of these examples are examples of poorly conceived ideas, with poor outcomes.

Just to be crystal clear, if any Non Pro writer had submitted these scripts/concepts, they would not have been accepted.  Period.

Are you seriously sticking up for these 2 examples?  C'mon now...

Just to chime in here a bit to mention that Wes Craven admitted to have had problems in selling A Nightmare on Elm Street (he says it in the dvd commentary, I think). He was just lucky I suppose that it turned out to be a cult classic (not to everyone's taste though). that's it.

Gabe

Well, leaving aside the fact that you're again talking about scripts that you've never seen, yes, you're right.

A guy who has written several mega hits, is world famous and has brought in billions of pounds over three decades will have more chance of getting a project off the ground than a nobody.

But he was a nobody once, just like everyone else.

Well if you consider being a porn director for the mafia, a nobdoy...

AHHH! Enough with the pointless debates!

Stop bickering about the principles of things that may-or-may-not-be-true, and just focus on writing something with a strong hook, an intriguing story that unfolds in a compelling way, and has roles that actors would love to get their hands on. Great writing can be added at a later date. It's the icing on the cake, but you need a bloody cake first!

There are so many of these discussions that I sometimes wonder if all we do on here is slowly go round in the same circles, occasionally mumbling "Hang on, haven't I been past that before?" It's been nearly three years since I joined, and if I had a dollar for every time I heard the word "unfilmables"...

Quoted from JonnyBoy AHHH! Enough with the pointless debates! Stop bickering about the principles of things that may-or-may-not-be-true, and just focus on writing something with a strong hook, an intriguing story that unfolds in a compelling way, and has roles that actors would love to get their hands on. Great writing can be added at a later date. It's the icing on the cake, but you need a bloody cake first! There are so many of these discussions that I sometimes wonder if all we do on here is slowly go round in the same circles, occasionally mumbling "Hang on, haven't I been past that before?" It's been nearly three years since I joined, and if I had a dollar for every time I heard the word "unfilmables"...

That IS all we do. What else can you do a website?

That's why I tried to commit forum suicide the other day. It's just a way of stopping you working.

If you were a pro writer I bet you could fluff that post to at least three times as long, including unfilmables and orphans.

And if you were publishing it yourself I bet you could include camera angles and sneak in some shot lists, as well.

However, since you're John Q Public Spec Writer Non-Extraordinaire you'll have to cut it down to a terse delivery of fundamental grunts and yips.

And that page-turning b!tch had better sparkle like a mid-summer night's star, too.

Quoted from JonnyBoy AHHH! Enough with the pointless debates! Stop bickering about the principles of things that may-or-may-not-be-true, and just focus on writing something with a strong hook, an intriguing story that unfolds in a compelling way, and has roles that actors would love to get their hands on. Great writing can be added at a later date. It's the icing on the cake, but you need a bloody cake first! There are so many of these discussions that I sometimes wonder if all we do on here is slowly go round in the same circles, occasionally mumbling "Hang on, haven't I been past that before?" It's been nearly three years since I joined, and if I had a dollar for every time I heard the word "unfilmables"...

I've been here since September -05. Too long...

I feel like I've seen the same discussions come and go, come and go. Same with members for that matter. A lot less reviews lately and people have left too. Not sure what has happened.

I've also seen people get their hopes up only to see nothing happening after a loooong period of being jerked around and eventually get depressed when they realized the big dream won't happen.

Write the best script you can and then try your best to get some insider to read it. If it is as great as you think it is, people will notice it. Fact is, most of us don't write great scripts. If you want your own script produced, the only way to guarantee that is to produce it yourself.

Quoted from Grandma Bear If you want your own script produced, the only way to guarantee that is to produce it yourself.

Three cheers for the
writer/director
waiting to blossom forth
in all of us made
both bitter and better by
awareness, reason and
common sense!

Good luck to
everyone else!

- Picture of three beers in a toast here -


D@mmit! If you reeeeealy want something done...

An interesting discussion. Me personally I find Wes Craven to be hit and miss.
I'll always have a love for the original Elm Street, but I also enjoyed Serpent and The Rainbow and People Under The Stairs. And I think his best film is the thriller Red Eye. But yes, My Soul To Take was a mess.

However, a good point is made. Generally, Craven sticks to low to modest budgets.
And any feature script written in two weeks time is going to be by the numbers. I don't care who you are or how high tier you are. Does that make Craven and his son bad writers? Not completely. It does, however, suggest that if they had more time, it could have been better. (Although it IS The Hills Have Eyes we're talking about...)

Okay, I'm just going to throw two words into this melee, for consideration and discussion.

Uwe Boll.  I *gots* to get me a copy of one of his scripts, see how masterful that is...  ))))

He's more of a Director and Producer, than a writer.

I have to admit that I actually liked 2 of his movies that he did write himself, Seed and Rampage.  Now, don't get me wrong, when I say I liked them, I'm not saying they were actually good films or an example of good writing, but I've seen far, far worse...like the 2 Wes Craven movies up for discussion here.

What you are seeing as a non-level playing field is networking.

Though you would never do this - if you were to write your entire script in crayon...
And a producer thought it would make a bunch of money then it would be funded.
Of course to get that script to that producer would mean you need to know the guy or at the very least they need to know you.  That may not seem fair but it's not a double standard.

Wow, too much already being discussed here and too much to type and I'm already late. I'll say this much - if you're not a marketing genius on top of being a writer, then don't bother writing. The business has changed to the point where you're competing with so many people, good writing almost doesn't matter because it won't get in the proper doors without good marketing...

Oh yes, and you NEED a connection. At least one. I started out with quasi-connection and a more legitimate one on the fringes of the business (he's in horror, transitioning to other genres). I worked those tirelessly, to the point where now I'm kind of in a position to help my connection out as much as he helped me in the beginning...

If you can't market yourself, learn. If you don't have any connections, drop what you're doing, move to Hollywood and start reading scripts or getting coffee for a small production house. Otherwise, and I mean this, you're wasting your time...

What Brett's doing? Marketing. He's good at marketing his own stuff. How many of us sitting here rooting him on have thought about trying the same thing?

"I'll say this much - if you're not a marketing genius on top of being a writer, then don't bother writing."

Way too strong of a statement. I've read too many interviews, scriptshadow is a good source, with new writers who manage to get one really good script discovered and that opens the door. Once it's open, they have to make the right impressions and do the right things, and if they do, and they have the talent, they do well.

I'm not downplaying marketing, just saying that to conclude that one has to be a marketing genius or not write is way too strong.

Also, the process and journey of learning to write can be a long one, and it can take place alongside other things happening in your life. Some of these writers spend many years writing scripts, learning the craft, while they do other things in life. Then circumstances become such where they have the opportunity to pursue things more directly, and it happens when they are also developed enough as a writer, and they make something happen.

There's no reason not to keep writing, and perhaps down the road a situation presents itself where you can put yourself in a place, like Brett has, where you can push things. And there are other pathways. I've seen writers win a contest or film a short that draws attention which opens doors. All of these paths are longshots, but that's the nature of it.

I think anyone who gets involved in this knows it's an extreme long shot. That doesn't make it a waste of time.

I agree, Kev.

Marketing is the best way of ENSURING success. Someone who can market themselves will get more opprortunities, more quickly, and won't need to be as good (probably).

You'd hope there's always a place for just a great script though.

Opportunities are getting slimmer though...there's very little money outside the studio system and they tend to go with people they know.

When you do manage to find people that can open doors for you, make sure you have a script that is damned good. I had the opportunity to show people scripts in Hollywood 2 years ago (including a CAA person). I realized at that time that this was BIG and that none of the scripts I had was something I wanted them to read. I knew it had to be great and mine were not. I knew I wouldn't get the opportunity again if I showed them something that wasn't ready. I know I made the right decision.

Think about this too, and this squares with what you said the other day, Rick. How many so called prepro scripts have you read that you thought deserved to be filmed?  Writing a script that's truly good, and has wide enough appeal to justify millions of dollars, is extremely hard. We can blame marketing and lack of connections, but mostly it's just that we haven't written a standout script.

That said, yeah, marketing and connections are huge. I'm not downplaying them. People here are trying to learn how to write that standout script, though. Odds are against that. But fun trying, and like anything with a big pay off, the odds are against succeeding, but worth pursuing.

The hardest part is actually writing the truly standout script. If one manages to somehow do that, their odds for success should go up.

It's hard to decide what way to go with writing and filmmaking as well.

The best pre pro script I ever read, I think, was one that got to the final at the Nicholls. It was a haunting ghost story set in China about three sisters and a violin.

The writer sent it to me, so he must have been getting pretty desperate. Great script...but honestly I can't see anyone making money on it.

You could change the setting to the US or to the UK (or wherever) to lower the cost (if you're not from China obviously) but you think to yourself..is the horror crowd really going to go for a slow burning romantic/Gothic story about a violin?

Maybe a really famous Director could get away with it, but you can sort of imagine sitting in front of some hard faced execs trying to shift it and saying it was about a haunted violin and them just looking at you like dirt. (I think Anne Rice wrote a story about a haunted instrument as well, and that tanked).

Kind of sad, you can even get something pretty much perfect and it's still all wrong, if you know what I mean.

Then there's the other side of it:

Really crap, but amusing videos that you can knock on once a week are worth more in the current climate than most well made independent films.

Quoted from Grandma Bear When you do manage to find people that can open doors for you, make sure you have a script that is damned good. I had the opportunity to show people scripts in Hollywood 2 years ago (including a CAA person). I realized at that time that this was BIG and that none of the scripts I had was something I wanted them to read. I knew it had to be great and mine were not. I knew I wouldn't get the opportunity again if I showed them something that wasn't ready. I know I made the right decision.

Pia,

Good on you to resist the temptation to put yourself out there too soon.
You couldn't be more right, I see it a lot at the pitch cons and mixer events.
People trying to sell "cookie dough" like it's a "wedding cake".
It's transparent and stinks of desperation, you can smell it like a fart in a car.
Industry types can tell lightning fast if you have anything real to say.
I try to keep it short, concise, pleassant and make lots of eye contact.
Timing's a bitch, but if you don't have confidence in your material, they'll know!
If you don't have faith in your work, no one else ever will even look at it.

It's like charity work, everyone gives to the big shiny charities. Why?
Because they want their money associated with success.
Sure, the ramshackle charities could use it more.
But, they don't get as much dough, because they don't appear ready to use it well.

Regards,
E.D.

Quoted from ajr If you can't market yourself, learn. If you don't have any connections, drop what you're doing, move to Hollywood and start reading scripts or getting coffee for a small production house. Otherwise, and I mean this, you're wasting your time... What Brett's doing? Marketing. He's good at marketing his own stuff. How many of us sitting here rooting him on have thought about trying the same thing?

I hear, "Be an intern and get a feel for the business", all the time here.
And many small production houses are always looking for interns.
It's a great way to meet folks in a non-pressure cooker environment.
If you can't stand the "heat" of pitches and promotion, and want to learn, then intern.
It's a game anyone can play and get a feel for the vibe of the industry.

And much thanks for the shout out, you're far more deserving of such things.
I hang on every word about Grand Avenue's progress.
If you're "good in the room" these pitch cons are a fantastic resource.
I want to share as much about that process as I can with SS members.
It's the least I can do since I picked up a lot about craft from awesome folks here.
If my posts convince one person to go out there and promote themselves, big win.

Ryan's local, so I may just make him go, cuz I know where he lives, sorta.

It's only a matter of time before fortune smiles down on Grand Avenue.

Cheers,
E.D.

Quoted from leitskev "I'll say this much - if you're not a marketing genius on top of being a writer, then don't bother writing." Way too strong of a statement. I've read too many interviews, scriptshadow is a good source, with new writers who manage to get one really good script discovered and that opens the door.

And how do the new writers manage to get said script discovered? Marketing. My point is those who are "managing" today are doing more than posting it on here, Circalit and Inktip. They're networking and querying in every way possible, some are creating video or youtube presentations, etc.

Those who are passively posting will get lapped because your script is competing against mine for reads, and I spend every waking minute promoting myself, and I will get lapped by someone who's even more diligent and who is more talented and who has 10 times the connections.

That's my point. Figure out how many people are doing this - in the hundreds of thousands, by estimate - and then think how they're going about competing for reads and how you're going to top them. If you can't approach it from that perspective it won't get noticed. That doesn't mean that you're not still a good writer or that writing is not worthwhile, it just means you haven't found a way to differentiate yourself, and that comes through marketing...

I am not posting on Inktip, nor anywhere else. Nor am I querying, or marketing in any way at all. And I do not expect to get discovered on SS.

So what am I doing? Learning how to write. As Pia said, you need to be ready if and when the door opens. In my case, I'm not ready. There's too much I need to learn and hopefully master to a degree.

I recognize the need to market. I'm just saying one should not be discouraged from learning how to write. I read an interview recently with a guy with no connections whose script got noticed in a contest. It didn't get produced, but it did get him in the door, and quickly led to work in the industry. He made a point of saying that had these opportunities presented themselves to him a year or two earlier, he would have blown it because he was not ready as a writer.

Good to have connections, very important to find a way to market...just saying people need to write, and shouldn't be discouraged from that. But I thank you for the marketing encouragement and advice! It is taken to heart.

Related to this whole discussion, I was just told about the following experiment that took place in the 80s - a gentleman named Chuck Ross retyped the script to Casablanca, and shopped it around to various agencies under the original name: Everybody Comes to Ricks.

Though considered one of the best scripts ever written, the results - and rejections - were quite interesting...

http://www.museumofhoaxes.com/hoax/archive/permalink/casablanca_rejected/

HaHa...that's great!  Good job, Janet!  Excellent post!!!!!

You know, it's impossible to separate the quality of a film from the quality of a script.

Casablanca is considered one of the greatest scripts because it's one of the greatest films. Whether or not it's truly a great script or not is open to debate.

[Rick's note, try and find a post in the screenwriting class (I think) that's an interview with a screenwriter who talks about whether there's any such thing as a great script at all...I comented on it, and I know Sandra did..that's as much as I can remember..it's a brilliant post, full of useful and interesting info)]

Had a different Director and different actors delivered the same lines and same scenes in inferior ways, no-one would ever talk about it.

Pro example: Armoured. Every review slated the script....they said things like "They paid 1.5m for this...they shouldn't have bothered"...very hurtful. The script was very good. Textbook writing, but very good. IMHO, it was a career making script for a Director who just played it as it was to the fullest ability. The wrong Director got it (a good one, just wrong for the film) and made it worse. The script got the blame....no-one actually reads the script.

Amateur example: Mine and Pia's End of the Tour...won a few awards and was nominated and won awards for Best Screenplay...no-one ever read the screenplay (completely different level, I know, but it illustrates a point). No-one reads the script. If the stories poor, they blame the script...without having any clue as to whether they stuck to it or not.

I've read Casablanca. It's a middling script. (By which I mean the film could have gone either way...it was far from a sure fire "classic" in script form) It was the charisma of Bogart, the chemistry between him and another truly great actress Ingrid Bergmann the style of the shooting and every other thing besides that created the final masterpiece.

There's some stories that are so good, they are almost undestroyable. (One of those is Oedipus Rex...a story Aristotle considered almost perfect...no matter how medicore the presentation of it the story grips you). Other stories are brilliant in certain hands, and downright pitiful in others.

You'll have seen this yourselves when a good script on SS, hasn't been handled to its fullest potential when Produced, something that I've been guilty of as well.

I'll grant that a good movie - and a good script - are not synonymous.

Though in this instance, it's worth noting that Casablanca won the Oscar for best screenplay.  (And - to boot - was a "pro" script...and therefore by the logic should have risen automatically to the top of the slush pile on it's own merits...)

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0034583/awards

Rick, my friend...you continue to walk down your own 1 way street, no matter which direction the traffic comes from.

When you love a movie, like Black Swan, for instance, you say and site the script over and over as the reason why it's so good.

When I or someone else shows an example of a horrid movie, directed by the writer, even, you say you can't blame the script.

It's just not fair having these discussions with you because you know how to debate and you continually choose not to agree with any other point or option, and make arguments up that are very difficult to challenge.

I'm at a loss on how to get through to you.

I remember the Script Club in which Armored was looked at.  I didn't participate, but really wish I did.  The movie was far from good, and just based on the premise, I can see why, yet you continually quote how great the script was. Do you have it available?  If so, E-mail it to me and I'll look at it, and probably trash it to high Hell.  

We also looked at The Strangers on a Script Club, and the script itself wasn't anything to write home about, yet it made a pretty decent flick, that was quite successful.

Bottom line is that anything can happen with a script, whether it's bad, OK, good, or great.  The point of this thread, though, is that very few Non Pro writers get a real chance for their scripts to have a chance at being a real movie.

I just don't see why you can't just come out and agree with that.

Quoted from wonkavite I'll grant that a good movie - and a good script - are not synonymous. Though in this instance, it's worth noting that Casablanca won the Oscar for best screenplay.  (And - to boot - was a "pro" script...and therefore by the logic should have risen automatically to the top of the slush pile on it's own merits...) http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0034583/awards

I'm not sure if you got my point. What I'm saying is that people give awards for best screenplay to great films. Ie there's an assumption that because the film was great, the script was.

No-one reads the script.

You rarely get (if ever) a Best Screenplay handed out to a film that everyone thought was crap. But sometimes the script was great and the film was crap, and sometimes the film was great and the script was crap.

Casablanca is considered a great script becasue the film is a classic. If someone had done a hack job on the film, the script itself would have been slated.

Quoted from Dreamscale The point of this thread, though, is that very few Non Pro writers get a real chance for their scripts to have a chance at being a real movie.

Very few pros get that chance as well.  So what's the point?

Michael, Michael, Michael...

By definition of a "pro Writer", they've already had that chance, and that chance has become a reality...hasn't it?

A lot of those people who "make it" end up writing what other people tell them or rewriting what someone else has written. Not very many get to write what they want and get paid big dollars. Are you sure you want to "make it" if you have to move to Hollywood and write what other people tell you to? Just asking in case some people don't realize what working in Hollywood might actually mean.  

Quoted from Dreamscale Rick, my friend...you continue to walk down your own 1 way street, no matter which direction the traffic comes from. When you love a movie, like Black Swan, for instance, you say and site the script over and over as the reason why it's so good. When I or someone else shows an example of a horrid movie, directed by the writer, even, you say you can't blame the script. It's just not fair having these discussions with you because you know how to debate and you continually choose not to agree with any other point or option, and make arguments up that are very difficult to challenge. I'm at a loss on how to get through to you. I remember the Script Club in which Armored was looked at.  I didn't participate, but really wish I did.  The movie was far from good, and just based on the premise, I can see why, yet you continually quote how great the script was. Do you have it available?  If so, E-mail it to me and I'll look at it, and probably trash it to high Hell.   We also looked at The Strangers on a Script Club, and the script itself wasn't anything to write home about, yet it made a pretty decent flick, that was quite successful. Bottom line is that anything can happen with a script, whether it's bad, OK, good, or great.  The point of this thread, though, is that very few Non Pro writers get a real chance for their scripts to have a chance at being a real movie. I just don't see why you can't just come out and agree with that.

Jeff, you've not shown me one of those bad scripts. Each time you do what the reviewers of Armoured did and blame the script for the poor film. It's not necessarily the case. I'm absolutely sure that in some instances you ARE right...the script was crap as well, but neither you nor me have read them, so we can't make an objective opinion.

Shoot a film and you'll see how easy it is for literally everything to go wrong.

The Armored script should be linked on the script club page. Pia probably has it if not. I've no doubt you'll rip it to pieces, but you rip everything to pieces! There's nothing incredible about it, it's by the numbers, it's purely someone following the likes of Syd Field literally, but it works, because bizarrely, despite the popularity of these types of books...no-one actually follows them.

As for the point about the non pro people, I agree. But remember, Armored was a non-pro script. It sold for $1.5M.

I believe if people write their scripts as well as that guy did, and put them out there to the world, they'll get their shot. A script like that could even filter down to someone like me and become a success, IMO. They fucked it up, it happens. They hired an "arty noir" director for a gritty action flick. Sometimes oddball choices work, sometimes they don't.

There are better writers on here than that guy. No, that's not right. There are people who write in a superior way to that guy, but haven't quite put the whole package together.

I mean, I could literally point fingers and say where I think people are going wrong in comparison to the better pros. That's presumptuous to the point of abject arrogance, but from a critical point of view I feel I can see things quite clearly.

BTW, I never sited the reason Black Swan was so good was the script. The film is even better than the script IMO. Aronofsky took it to new levels. The script is very, very good though. (But it was written with the input of the Director...if you look at the histories of most succesful writers you'll find they had a mentor that helped them refine their style). The only reason I've commented on it so frequently was the script club, and then on Territory because I was comparing it for this "double standard" people were talking about.

I don't believe in this double standard. A script can be extremely descriptive but not over descriptive...if that particular story calls for it.

At the same time a story with less description on an objective scale can be "over" descriptive because the type of story doesn't warrant it.

That's my opinion. I don't have to change it because other people disagree.  

Black Swan was very descriptive, but it can't possibly be described as over descriptive when that description actually made it into the shots of the final film. That's an oxymoron. Clearly it was exactly descriptive enough for that particular type of story.

A less character driven and introspective piece would probably not need that level of description and it would be a fault if it was there.

From my point of view, when a script isn't quite good enough in the eyes of an individual (and it's always subjective), they will give a reason. If they are getting bored reading it, they might throw out that it's over descriptive, or that it's not tight enough..whatever. I think it's because the script isn't quite good enough in their eyes, not that there are double standards.

When a script is written to pro level, you don't notice the writing, you immediatley become engrossed in the story and you often find you can breeze through the whole script.

So my point is that I don't think most pre pros have earnt the right for the shot just yet, either because their scripts aren't quite there, or they just haven't got themselves in front of enough faces.

You've got to take your shot. You've got to forcibly show the world how good you are somehow. They are not going to come and find you, they have no need.

Quoted from Dreamscale Michael, Michael, Michael... By definition of a "pro Writer", they've already had that chance, and that chance has become a reality...hasn't it?

Most scripts that sell never get Produced. There's professional writers who have sold 12 scripts and never had a singular movie produced.

Studioes even buy things just to stop other people producing them. Sometimes for mega bucks.

Quoted from Scar Tissue Films The Armored script should be linked on the script club page. Pia probably has it if not. I've no doubt you'll rip it to pieces, but you rip everything to pieces! There's nothing incredible about it, it's by the numbers, it's purely someone following the likes of Syd Field literally, but it works, because bizarrely, despite the popularity of these types of books...no-one actually follows them.

we could use that one for another Script Club...  

The writer was a regular member at Done Deal Pro and caused a lot of stir there. Sort of like if someone here at SS sold a script for "real" money and not just a few dollars.  It's very slow here if anyone feels up to another SC.  

We did a script club on it already!

Quoted from Scar Tissue Films We did a script club on it already!

It was just a test to see if you remembered.  

I'm up for it, Pia.

And, Rick, I want to thank you for your different tone here.  That's all I'm asking for and expecting.

You're right...everything is subjective and no one should be ale to "tell" others what is right and wrong...unless it's plain old wrong...

We all base our opinions on what we believe and hopefully, we believe whatever it is we believe, for a reason.  It's the same thing about following or breaking certain "rules".  Something either makes sense, or it doesn't.  Sometimes, something from left field will work, and others, it won't.

You guys know I'm quite passionate in what I say and "preach".  I do it because I honestly and whole heartedly believe that what I'm saying makes sense and is "right".   I'm sorry that causes friction and trouble in here. That's never my intent.

Who else is up for a new Script Club with this Armored script/movie?

Armoured was a really good read.

Didn't see the flick but from what i heard, they completely fucked it up by changing parts of the script that made it work