I preferred Holland in the final; on the other side we have support now from Brazil.

If our players go for fun with a smile on their face, as in the semi, they will win. If they go into the match with a serious overboard attitude, as Brazil did against us, then we will suck and lose.


Dustin, don't give up on your team now. It's one last step to the cup.

To be fair, I thought both semis were played in a good spirit. Not as much diving, or flopping as the Americans have named it, as I expected. Even Robben stayed on his feet during some of those strong gusts of wind.

As for Germany, I've never seen as good a performance from a team on such a big stage. There was a lot of talk of Brazil being hopeless, which they were to a man, but I like to give credit where it's due, and the Germans went next level.

It's pretty rare a team plays that good twice in a row, so doing it again after an almost perfect performance will be tough.

While Germany are surely strong favourites, I wouldn't right off Argentina just yet. There's a well known saying in football, the best teams find a way to win when not playing well. They haven't played well yet, but they've made it to the final. Granted Messi hasn't had a good tournament, and was anonymous in the semi, I still wouldn't bet against him banging in a hat-trick.

Germany v Argentina in the final, it doesn't get much worse for an Englishman.

Quoted from stevie And IMO Messi is nowhere near worthy to be mentioned in the same breath as the elite footballers yet, if ever. Scoring a million goals in La Liga isn't an automatic pass.

Quoted from stevie I would rate Becks higher than Messsi in my top ten of all time, simply because of his ticker when playing for England.

- Wow. I love ya, Stevie but they are two utterly baffling points of view to me; that Messi shouldn't be considered among the best ever and you'd rate Beckham ahead of him. Wow.

But, of course that is your opinion and this is mine, no more.

Quoted from irish eyes From one of the best semi to the worst. Germany obviously favorites, don't really care who wins. Argentina have Messi... Germany have a team. Mark

Well that nailed it - some might have noted that the Argies also have Aguero -- yes, you might not have noticed that he was on the pitch as well as Messi. He kicked the ball twice too. Well done Sergio, get yourself a pint.

Now you can see that Argenoteamas are a group of never-beens who are ready and willing to be dismantled by the Na-- Germans. Zeek heil!

Quoted from stevie Messi did nothing in the semi. The Argie defence got them through. Germany to win 3-1 for me.  Argentina can win of course but they will have to play something special. And IMO Messi is nowhere near worthy to be mentioned in the same breath as the elite footballers yet, if ever. Scoring a million goals in La Liga isn't an automatic pass. Performing for your country consistently in the big events is the key. I would rate Becks higher than Messsi in my top ten of all time, simply because of his ticker when playing for England.

Come on now. He's been by far the best player for Argentina this WC. They wouldn't be anywhere near here without him. I don't like Messi but he's the best player in the world and has been for years.

This world cup he basically decided all of Argentina's games.  Scored 2 goals against Nigeria, scored a goal against BIH, scored a stoppage goal to win against Iran, he set up the extra time goal against Switzerland and he set up the best chance they had against Holland. Most of the things he does he does individually.

I liked Beckham but he wasn't close to Messi's level IMO. Plus Messi just turned 27 few weeks ago. He still has many high level years in front of him.

I understand what you guys are saying and respect that.

Sure, Messia and Ronaldo are the 2 best players in the world right now and have been for a few years. But performing for your country as well as domestically gives the chance to be rated with the best ever players like Maradona, Pele, Cruyff, Beckenbauer, etc.

David Beckham has always been one of my favourites. The amount of pressure he has had to endure both on and off the pitch has bee huge. He always played well for England, playing proudly and captaining his country. His goals at vital times have been great.

Give me a guy that rolls up his sleeves and never gives up ahead of players who whinge and sook when things get tough, I'm looking at you Barcelona and Spain, lol.

Messi hasn't done anything memorable for Argentina yet. Either has Ronaldo.

Quoted from PrussianMosby Dustin, don't give up on your team now. It's one last step to the cup.

If it is one thing I've learned about Germany... they could be down to 7 men and they would still find a way to win.

Quoted from stevie I understand what you guys are saying and respect that. Sure, Messia and Ronaldo are the 2 best players in the world right now and have been for a few years. But performing for your country as well as domestically gives the chance to be rated with the best ever players like Maradona, Pele, Cruyff, Beckenbauer, etc. David Beckham has always been one of my favourites. The amount of pressure he has had to endure both on and off the pitch has bee huge. He always played well for England, playing proudly and captaining his country. His goals at vital times have been great. Give me a guy that rolls up his sleeves and never gives up ahead of players who whinge and sook when things get tough, I'm looking at you Barcelona and Spain, lol. Messi hasn't done anything memorable for Argentina yet. Either has Ronaldo.

I have to strongly disagree. I hate it when people pick the best players and lay blame on them for their teams shortcomings. They can't do everything by themselves there are 10 other players on the team. You can't say they haven't done anything memorable for their teams, when they really do THE ONLY MEMORABLE things on their teams.

For instance, you say Ronaldo hasn't done anything for Portugal. Well, lets look at what he has done recently. He scored 8 goals to help them qualify to the world cup. He played injured this World Cup and he still masterfully set up the goal to tie against the US and scored the winning goal against Ghana. When he was most needed he showed up twice to keep their hopes alive. The Euro 2012 he scored twice against Holland to have Portugal win the group, then he scored the only goal to take Portugal to the semi's against the Czech. He also scored like 7-8 goals during the qualifications to take them to Euro 2012.

He has been consistently been the best Portugal player for 10 years now. He can't do everything by himself. The guy tries and does his best. It's not his fault that there aren't other players close to his talent on the team to help him get over that hump and win something. With him on the team Portugal played in the final at Euro 2004, semi WC 2006 and semi Euro 2012. Maybe if had another player with skills at least close to his they would have won something. But to say he hasn't done anything for Portugal, it's just not being objective. He has done A LOT.

If we look at it like that than Beckham did FAR less for England and England had a more star-studded team. Name wise, England had a hell of a team. Owen, Rooney, Lampard, Gerrard, Ferdinand, Cole and so on.  What did England win with Beckham on the team? Nothing. They even failed to qualify to Euro 2008. Since they hosted the Euro back in 1996 they failed to get to any kind of semi final, WC or Euro with Beckham on the team. Does that mean that Beckham did nothing for England? No, no it doesn't.

Ronaldo has scored 50 goals for Portugal from 114 games. And during the 00s he played a lot of games as a winger and in midfield. Even after, there usually was a striker ahead of him, yet he scored a goal every second game and contributed greatly to the teams play.

Same goes for Messi. He took them to this final. HE DID IT. I don't like Messi, but he was absolutely crucial to getting them here. Most if not all of the games they won this WC were do to him taking matters into his own hands and doing his thing. The games were won by his individual skill.

It is unfair to say that these two guys haven't done anything for their countries when they've clearly done so much. One great player and a bunch of decent - good ones don't win World Cups and Euro Championships.

Quoted from Demento I have to strongly disagree. I hate it when people pick the best players and lay blame on them for their teams shortcomings. They can't do everything by themselves there are 10 other players on the team. You can't say they haven't done anything memorable for their teams, when they really do THE ONLY MEMORABLE things on their teams. For instance, you say Ronaldo hasn't done anything for Portugal. Well, lets look at what he has done recently. He scored 8 goals to help them qualify to the world cup. He played injured this World Cup and he still masterfully set up the goal to tie against the US and scored the winning goal against Ghana. When he was most needed he showed up twice to keep their hopes alive. The Euro 2012 he scored twice against Holland to have Portugal win the group, then he scored the only goal to take Portugal to the semi's against the Czech. He also scored like 7-8 goals during the qualifications to take them to Euro 2012. He has been consistently been the best Portugal player for 10 years now. He can't do everything by himself. The guy tries and does his best. It's not his fault that there aren't other players close to his talent on the team to help him get over that hump and win something. With him on the team Portugal played in the final at Euro 2004, semi WC 2006 and semi Euro 2012. Maybe if had another player with skills at least close to his they would have won something. But to say he hasn't done anything for Portugal, it's just not being objective. He has done A LOT. If we look at it like that than Beckham did FAR less for England and England had a more star-studded team. Name wise, England had a hell of a team. Owen, Rooney, Lampard, Gerrard, Ferdinand, Cole and so on.  What did England win with Beckham on the team? Nothing. They even failed to qualify to Euro 2008. Since they hosted the Euro back in 1996 they failed to get to any kind of semi final, WC or Euro with Beckham on the team. Does that mean that Beckham did nothing for England? No, no it doesn't. Ronaldo has scored 50 goals for Portugal from 114 games. And during the 00s he played a lot of games as a winger and in midfield. Even after, there usually was a striker ahead of him, yet he scored a goal every second game and contributed greatly to the teams play. Same goes for Messi. He took them to this final. HE DID IT. I don't like Messi, but he was absolutely crucial to getting them here. Most if not all of the games they won this WC were do to him taking matters into his own hands and doing his thing. The games were won by his individual skill. It is unfair to say that these two guys haven't done anything for their countries when they've clearly done so much. One great player and a bunch of decent - good ones don't win World Cups and Euro Championships.

- I wholeheartedly agree with everything you say in response to that deluded Ozzy...but was too lazy to write it.

However, I'm curious about one thing, its easy to hate on Ronaldo as he's not the most likable individual on the field with his bit?hing, moaning, posturing etc while also appreciating that we need personalities like him in the game and this personality is part of him as a player...but why don't you like Messi?

Quoted from Colkurtz8 However, I'm curious about one thing, its easy to hate on Ronaldo as he's not the most likable individual on the field with his bit?hing, moaning, posturing etc while also appreciating that we need personalities like him in the game and this personality is part of him as a player...but why don't you like Messi?

I don't hate either of them. I think those two have been BY FAR the two best players in the world past 5 years or so. I have no problem admitting it. It's just hard for me to root for people that are just so naturally talented at something. Just seems a bit unfair to me Plus the whole world loves them, they can do without my support. I prefer the fighting underdog type. Instance, I find Miroslav Klose very likeable.

But I respect Ronaldo and Messi a lot. Especially Ronaldo for all of his humanitarian work he does out of the pitch.

Quoted from Demento I don't hate either of them. I think those two have been BY FAR the two best players in the world past 5 years or so. I have no problem admitting it. It's just hard for me to root for people that are just so naturally talented at something. Just seems a bit unfair to me Plus the whole world loves them, they can do without my support. I prefer the fighting underdog type. Instance, I find Miroslav Klose very likeable. But I respect Ronaldo and Messi a lot. Especially Ronaldo for all of his humanitarian work he does out of the pitch.

- It is our natural instinct to go for the underdog alright but Messi rarely puts a foot wrong in any respect. He just seems like a model professional while being very very very good at his profession. I always find it surprising that anybody would take a disliking to him outside of his opponents.

The only (kind of) negative thing I've heard about him is, as captain, he demanded Tevez not be brought to the world cup as his style of play detracted from his own. I don't know how much truth there is to that though and the reason why I call it "kind of" negative is that Tevez has proven on more than one occasion what a diva he can be so perhaps it was best for the team a la Nasri.

Also, apparently Messi demands preference over other Barca strikers, that the team play around him, which might explain why some great ones didn't entirely flourish at Camp Nou. Again, I don't know how accurate that is either but being as good as he is, it makes sense to build your side around La Pulga!

Quoted from Colkurtz8 - It is our natural instinct to go for the underdog alright but Messi rarely puts a foot wrong in any respect. He just seems like a model professional while being very very very good at his profession. I always find it surprising that anybody would take a disliking to him outside of his opponents.

Like I said I don't hate him. I just don't find him very likeable. I was never one to like "the best" at something. I marvel at his skill, I just don't root for him. It's hard for me to get behind someone who is SO dominant. I kind of instinctively get a feeling "well this guy gets all the attention and admiration, let me focus on someone else".

But him and Ronaldo are way above everyone else. I miss the days before they came along, because things weren't so clear cut as to who was the best back then. You had a lot of top players and one year one would shine, the next the other and so on.

I used to despise Ronaldo. His theatrics on the pitch would do my head. But as I've got older I've begun to appreciate those who clearly work incredibly hard to get to the top of their profession, whatever that may be.

Did you ever hear of when Ronaldo got quoted as saying something along the lines of 'I was sent by the football gods'.

A reporter asked Messi what he thought of the statement, his response...

'I don't remember sending him'.

Class.

Quoted from ArtyDoubleYou Did you ever hear of when Ronaldo got quoted as saying something along the lines of 'I was sent by the football gods'. A reporter asked Messi what he thought of the statement, his response... 'I don't remember sending him'. Class.

- Ha, quality!

It's that old chestnut isn't it? Comparing players from different eras?

I'm not saying obviously that Messi and Ronaldo aren't world class. But in the history of the game they sit on the second tier for me.

Think of it in musical terms: the top echelon of bands is The Beatles, Led Zeppelin, The Rolling Stones, The Who.

Next level would be say...Pink Floyd, The Eagles

Messi and Ronaldo are the latter