I hope the writer is not discouraged by the negative comments. That's just part of the territory, you need a thick skin.

One reason I really hope the writer is not discourage is because I think a lot of talent is on display here. While there are glitches in the writing, and you've seen that some writers take their greatest pleasure in pointing out those glitches as though they are an affront to civilization, there's plenty of good writing in here too.

And there's a lot of world building and mythology and colorful imagery.

The problem is that this stuff is best left for graphic novels or fantasy books. It doesn't work well in screenplays. This story is a perfect example why. I read 6 pages before I dropped, and it was pretty much all world building. There was some action, but even that felt totally expository.

We weren't learning a single thing about the main character. So there was nothing really to compel us to keep reading.

I definitely think there is a ton of talent behind it. I think for this kind of story, with all this myth and world building, you're better off in the fantasy fiction format.

For screenplays, and I encourage you to continue that pursuit, you have the talent, try to focus on a simpler story that does not require so much setting up. Maybe consider the main character's internal and external need. Get us rooting for him to succeed and then throw sh!t in the way.

Spielberg mashup.  Indiana Jones meets Jaws.

Instead of Jonah, we get Johan. Insted of giant whale, we get a shark. I was joking in my notes here. But you went ahead and did this. Mixing archaeology and the supernatural.  Another voice over, there's been a few of these.  I find narration works best when we really want to know what the character thinks or their backstory. Like gangster lifestyle and Goodfellas. Also big budget stuffhere.

All that said, what an exciting adventure full of intense acion. Right away its a voiceover as he scrambles over ashipwreck . Awesome character intro for an adventure. Immediately I was feeling Indy everywhere. Down to the critters,  boobytraps, sword fighter, and the ark, er, amulet. By the way, all those dead guys in traps, are there any more to worry about?

Cool mythos with Caeus (Chaos). A man turned into a monster upon pursuing greed and gold. Good allegory of what greed does to a man. Becomes savage. An animak. A wolf. On Wall street. Heheh. Jokes. I had to... I also loved the imagery of the arch built of animal skulls, human included. Creepy, gothic, beauty. Horrific and enchanting.

I wish you stayed groundsd in reality. I feel the same with Indy. It works best as exploring why man needs myths and sacred objects. Why are we so compelled by fantastic tales.

Consider mentioning baddies earlier. Set it up more clearly. When he sees men in traps maybe comment on these are the men that he's chasing, the one who wrecked his ship. They kind of camd out of nowhere,  for me.

Nice swordfight. Nice compass imagery. Some cool superhero stuff, like his body glows and later erupts with energy.  Swallowed by giant shark is crazy stuff. How deep is this water? He cuts his way out... the ass? Maybe the gills would work better?

For me you jumped the shark with hovering amulet, this whale stuff really beats that, like jumping a whole row of sharks. The beach ending might be unnecessary if you consider destroying the shark and amulet with same superpowered energy blast. Or maybe end with amulet in museum. No one else lost lives searching for treasure. And shark left alone. I think this might match your intentions still. Just my thoughts.

I loved it so much before it got fantasy. I would have loved the whole archeologist fights pirates for artefact. And lone survivor of shark attack. I think you write action and adventure really well. The mythos was so strong too. I'd focus on fantasy ideas for fantasy scripts. Consider a separation between your two loves.

Regarding the voice over... who is story being told to? Limited space to reveal, it'd be nice to see he owns museum or a teacher. Or like a few other OWC,  an old man reflecting.  The voice over is the easiest way to get out a story. Because of this we've seen it a lot. By now, we need a really good excuse to accept and enjoy a narration.  Although your narration had some good flavour. I wonder if the content is always justified for the images or story here.

Tons of action. Intense. Lots of fun. Nice mythos dwarfed by the supernatural.

Bold metaphysical ending tarnishes a brilliant and super fun set-up.

Okay - let's rename this the VOC (that's VO Challenge) instead of the OWC.

Kev just put up some great feedback on why VO's should be used infrequently.

Openings matter: here we've got becalmed waters, followed by ocean sprays - they don't sit well together here.

Right after, we've got Johan, handsome with a scar? Handsome, but a scar?

"Johan ambles across the bridge with caution." Please. Amble: NOUN, A walk at a slow, relaxed pace, especially for pleasure. Something you do on a Sunday with your dog.

He exhumes a sigh of relief. Exhumes? ex�hume  verb
1. to dig (something buried, especially a dead body) out of the earth; isinter.
2. to revive or restore after neglect or a period of forgetting; bring to light: to exhume a literary reputation; to exhume old letters.

"Johan avoids a herd of scorpions." A group of cows is a herd; a group of scorpions is a cyclone. Try not getting them confused.

This is a p$sser isn't it?

Simon, from what I read, this is definitely not a pisser. This is someone who put a lot of work into it and has a lot of talent. It's someone probably more used to the world of fiction or graphic novels. If he/she sticks it out, they will convert to solid screenwriting very quickly.

As far as V.O., I am actually an increasing fan of it! In fact, I specifically want my next feature to be heavy in V.O.

What I am saying is people have to give some thought before using. If its only purpose is for exposition on the world, make it brief.

There are 3 ways I can think of that make V.O. useful. The first two are when it is not used for exposition...either to bring us right into the story, or to bond us quickly to the main character.

The 3rd way is tricky. V.O. can be used to establish expository information in a way that actually REDUCES exposition. Let me make a stupid example.

Let's say our story is about a girl who's about to get married. The worry is that she will be a runaway bride because she has done this before. To set things up, we need to establish that she has run away before. That's exposition.

There are different ways to do this. It can be done through other characters dialogue. We can do flashbacks. Or we can start the story where she runs away the first time.

Or we can have a voice over that explains it at the beginning.

I'm not saying one way is better than another. But if we use VO, we can get to the present wedding much quicker. That allows us to focus on the current drama and events surrounding it.

For example, the story might begin with the nervous bride walking down the aisle. And we hear her thoughts: "I'm not gonna do it this time. This one's the one. I know I've run away twice before, but the first time I was a kid,the second time I was pregnant. This time I'm really going through with my marriage to Jeff...I think."

And so withing a minute of the film, we're drawn right into the story. Will she run?

That's not the best example, but hopefully makes a point.

In It's a Wonderful Life, there is the corniest VO of all time. Angels in the form of twinkling stars talk to each other about the situation with our main character on Earth. In their dialogue we learn that the boy Jimmy Stewart really, really wants to grow up and get the hell out of this little town and see the world. They also try to show it visually with the boy reading a travel magazine, but it's really the VO that establishes it. And then this technique is used periodically through the first half of the film. It's weird. It works. Watch It's a Wonderful Life and count the beats. Count the high and low roller coaster turns. They come flying past you one after another in the first half of the film. All this is possible because of the silly exposition of the twinkling star angels.

If they didn't use the VO, they would have to waste precious story time establishing it.

This is where the rule Show Don't Tell...can be DEAD WRONG.

We don't want to show things that are not central to the drama at hand. That type of "showing" is just as expository in nature as dialogue. If VO(or character dialogue) can help us avoid expository show scenes, then they are worth it.

A few words...then we get right to the meat of the story. Which is usually good.

I can't write for shit, but I've studied this things the last few years like a jobless guy should!

I'm not going to doubt you here, Kev, but your three ways: this scripts uses none of them - it builds backstory. The problem with VO is that is is disembodied from the character, and when used in the beginning, it is disembodied from a character you have no relation with.

Take 'Samebito' for instance - it starts with a whole bunch of visuals - the VO explains the visuals, and develops the story. I've no problem with its use in that way.

In this story, you have the guy climbing rocks and falling a bit through planks - with a VO explaining the backstory - the two do not relate in any way - I can understand that he wants to concertina things somewhat, but in your example of the bride, the VO relates directly, enhances our understanding, and relates to what she is doing.

All of your points are valid, and I do respect them.

I didn't read all of this and it may have more potential than I gave credit for - so I'll give it another read tomorrow & I'll feedback then.

27. The Tides of Caeus - A warrior attempts to stop a corrupt pirate from gaining a mystical amulet... and put to rest a fabled monster.
Brief - A man goes on a fantasy adventure in a cave battling men and monsters.

Characters to Animate/Voice - 6
Johan, Pirate 3x, Urhmeir, Caeus
Scenes to Build  - 8
Cave w/ rope bridge, catacombs, grand ascent, halls of vigilant, pools of eternity, chambers of eternity, shores of Kartoka
Accessory Visual - twice average
Climb rock slope, fall, torch drop + into water, scorpions, pouring water, spike ball, crushed pirate, stone, water plop, fin rises,
Accessory Audio - none
Lightning, thunder, cave trickled water, ocean wave + spray, rope + plank creaks

Genre & Marketability - Adventure fantasy
Script format - Good
Comments  -  I haven’t even finished page one and I can see the details piling up. I wonder if I can do this if I cut out all the audio and make all this more like a dream fantasy rather than a literal scene.
     Alright, I’m out before even finishing page two. There’s just no economical way for me to animate all of this. It’s just too much for me. I mean, I could do this, but it’d look silly, like a shadow puppet show.
Producer hat off, reader hat on: “Stalactites RATTLE above”? WTH kind of stalactites rattle? Dialog gets a little weak the last few pages. However… you know… fundamentally this isn’t half bad. Strip out all the audio, make it a shadow puppet-like side-scrolling video game, just move the characters along, voice of Johan throughout, and this could be doable.
Final word - Consider. This would be a special project AFTER some serious rewriting of the dialog AND agreement on a production vision far from it’s origins.

10/15           Lo/Hi Estimated Build Hours per Screen Minute
x 11.8          Screenplay Pages
= 118/177     Total Build Hours Time Cost

Okay - gave this another read as I said I would. The Pirate falls onto a stalagmite, not a stalactite.

Anyways - I'm a little bit confused -- I mean having read it, it's not too bad, but I'm not getting some of the logic: "It is said that men who do not hold kindness in their hearts are men not worthy to claim the prize.", and this is one of the reasons that Johan goes to get the trinket. But also it says: "He set the rules. That the only man
who could find the amulet was the one man that could destroy it." Which not only a little bit contradicts the previous bit, but is a bit... dim, isn't it?

I'm also a bit lost on: "Any who could prove themselves worthy would come here to this fabled place." - so is there a previous test, and some of the pirates must have passed it, but them the pirates are clearly : "... not the brainiest bunch this world boasts."

So it's got a bit of an 'epic' feel to it, and congrats on that, but it's not for me, sorry.

I'm not saying this is great, but I think this script is better than most people here are giving it credit for.

Yeah, I had a couple of issues with some descriptions like everybody else. But here's the thing with me - the logline showed this story would be a different take on the challenge but it's not something that would have normally interested me. However, I thought it was paced well early on and it hooked me in. I thought that was an accomplishment. My bar may not be set as high as everyone else's on this thing, but I ended up liking this more than most of the others I've read.

Hey, Simon, I was just trying to point out I am not against using V.O...not at all.

I didn't like the way it was used here, and I tried to explain why.

I do believe a VO can be used JUST to set up a story. Let me give two quick examples  that came to mind.

First, the Book Thief. The narrator used is actually a really weird one...Satan. No idea why because it's not remotely a religious film. Satan is not a character within the film,so it doesn't give us a voice we will share the journey with. And the narration does not move the story...it sets it up. In other words, exposition. And it comes in once or twice during the film to add a little more exposition where needed.

Another example is not quite a voice over, but what amounts to the same...the recent Robin Hood film. They use cartoon images at the beginning to explain the world of the story and set it up.

So let me amend my list. Voiceover should be used:

1) if it helps directly move the story by explaining the motives of the characters
2) brings us into the mind of the character in a which makes us want to journey along with him;
3) sets up the story by using direct exposition which saves the need to "show" exposition in a way which would eat up screen time and delay our ability to get to the meat of the drama.

Does that work?

Ideally, if the writer has to use 3 he can mix in healthy doses of 1 and 2, especially 2. But sometimes that's just not possible.

For example, if the story is about a Marine fighting in Iraq, and the narration tells it from the future, we can't have the Marine himself tell it, or we will know he survives the war...thereby reducing the tension. That would apply to any of the guys fighting along his side, maybe, as well.

If the VO is mere myth and world building, as it is here, that is not advisable. You might get away with it for an epic feature.

Just realized I forgot to comment on this one. I read it, just forgot to add my review.

If I only had one word to describe this, it would be: EPIC.

But...I'm not sure that's a good thing for a 12 pager.  It was extremely visual but IMO, the problem with VO's like this, where someone is giving us history and backstory, it's hard to connect to the characters. So while we're being told the story we're watching some cool action and visuals...but we're not connecting. That's not important to everyone but for me, I need to connect.

This was well written IMO, just missed the mark for me as far as caring about any of the characters.

Great effort for a week's worth of work though.  Congrats.

Just chiming in regarding voice overs.

I largely agree with Kevin a couple posts above. Good criteria to weigh against when considering the use of a narrator.

But sometimes it's best to break the rules. The narrator should live, it makes logical sense for us to assume this. Especially in dramas without supernatural elements.  However...

All I have to say is MENACE II SOCIETY.  

Oh and spoiler alert. Hehehe.  

Why haven't more Scorsese fans seen this?

Sometimes breaking the rules can be a most powerful thing.

'The Tides of Caeus' writer,

You've got a very nice adventure story here.

From this OWC this submission is the second-closest to being off-the-shelf ready to go into production for a contest worthy entry.
It's technical demands to execute would take a fair bit of consideration, though.
They'd involve production principles I understand but have yet to actually execute to anywhere near the extent this story demands.

I don't feel that "as is" this is a block-buster, stand out, OTT, mind blowing story; but it is fundamentally sound, clever, and robust in principle.
There's a lot of good potential from this scenario.

As stated in my producer's notes above I can't do this economically as you would see some Michael Bay/Christopher Nolan type film.
The described audio alone would take forever to accommodate an even more fantastically rich assorted visual elements demanding story - "as is".

However, if we largely cut the audio and instead re-deploy that effort into the visual aspects... then the math starts working in our favor.

If it's agreeable with you I envision a purely voiced-over story (think '300' intro) being told with the protag Johan slicing and dicing his way through a rather lengthy side-scrolling gauntlet of challenging environments overcoming foes of both men and beast.
And don't get hung up on that "side-scrolling" identifier.
I can go forward, backward, up, down, diagonal, and zoom in to and out from the screen/audience. Should be good. Prolly won't FIU.

It'd be a mini epic, but a fun one.
The technique I use is rudimentary which lends itself to "genre's which don't take themselves much tooooo seriously", so... No, I don't envision a Disney-esque "Beast vs. Gaston" sort of epic drama short film.

But it's better than your screenplay sitting around doing nothing.

You wanna record the voice over?  

If you're pretty sure you've got nothing better to do with this story I'd like to get in touch with you to discuss what my animation technical limitations are and how you could consider tailoring a variant of this story to accommodate those limitations for production into an animated short for festival submission, ideally for the 2015 circuit.

If you feel it's appropriate to hold onto this for a while, shop it around to more credentialed entities, then by all means gopherit!

Just know that this open offer is here, now and for down the road.


Sincerely,
Ray

Lee, sorry I didn't finish. If you repost this after cleaning up the unclear parts, I'd be happy to read. I could tell a good writer was involved. The screen writing technique was what led to some confusion for me.

Kevin, not a problem whatsoever my friend.  

As I said in the "what's next" thread, this one was a hacked up thrown into a blender catastrophe with very unclear writing and an overabundance of world building voice overs that led to nothing.

I've already got the 30-pager primed and prepped for upload.  

It's the first of 2 shorts that prequel Age of Shadows.  Call it the set-up to a bigger mechanism.  There is NO V.O work.

To everyone confused with the writing (herd of scorpions - kinda like a herd of walkers from TWD, lots of them, but cyclone works better).  Exhumed means unearth?  Oops.  I thought it meant something else.

The true version is on its way and I apologize for anything made unclear by this OWC entry.  As you will see, the 30-pager is a superior beast.

@RayW

A side-scrolling beat 'em up, eh?  Sounds like fun.  If you're still interested after the 30-page version is up, which suits your "gauntlet of obstacles/monsters" sentence much more than this one does, then I will hand it to you on a silver platter.

Thanks to all that read my script, even if you didn't finish it.  If I haven't read yours, sleep well with the knowledge that I shall make time this weekend.

Good job with this one. Lots of fun. I can't wait to read the expanded version!

Congrats on the animation offer. That's great news.