I'll see if I can find a few hours to dissect the bottom half of page one tomorrow.

Quoted from DustinBowcot I'll see if I can find a few hours to dissect the bottom half of page one tomorrow.

He's fair game, considering that's how Jeff treats scripts. But it seems like a waste of your time to me.

Well, let's start with Dustin's points here about how terrible the writing is, as I see he now wants to spend some more time on the rest of Page 1, and maybe the entire script.

If that's something you think is important, will help, or whatever, please, spend your time however you feel is appropriate.

I thought you and I were trying to bury the hatchet, but looks like that's not the case.

So, let me respond to your feedback here...

Quoted from DustinBowcot    Code For a sewer, it's pretty nice. Show don't tell... screenwriting 101.

Dustin, c'mon now...this is an animated comedy, set in a sewer, with talking animals.  It's not a realistic world, and in a 5 page script, the last thing I'm going to worry about is describing settings in detail.  It doesn't matter, and you know that.

Actually, I think it's quite a clever way to get things started and make it clear we're not in a real world.

Quoted from DustinBowcot Code Animated cartoons play on each. Good job you told us those cartoons are animated... how would we know otherwise?

Sure, you're correct, but what is the downside here that's worth bringing this up?  Did it cost an extra line?  No.  It's an extra word that doesn't need to be here, but far from something anyone would say makes the entire script poorly written.

Quoted from DustinBowcot Code In front of the TV's... TVs.

  Correct.  Can't argue this at all.  Not sure why i did this...and have done it in the past as well.  Thanks for pointing this out.  It won't happen again.

Quoted from DustinBowcot Code ...old sofas and chairs rest on wooden planking, just above water level... I'd hate to drop something walking along the street in New York, the drainage holes must be huge.

Well, if you really think the only way into a sewer is through a "drainage hole", you're sorely mistaken, my friend.  And, more importantly, again, this is an animated fantasy world comedy.  You either go with it, or you won't be able to watch any of the very successful animated movies that make bajillions of dollars every year.

Quoted from DustinBowcot Code ...an old bullfrog jumps up on one of the TV's... TVs.

Yeah, same as above.  It's a mistake that I completely acknowledge.  Thanks for making it clear that it's a mistake each time it's used.

Quoted from DustinBowcot Code ...waves his little frog arms... What other types of arms would a bullfrog have? You only need to specify if his arms were different from what we'd expect.

Well, I apologize if this threw you off for some reason.  It's a comedy, it's animated, and I thought this was kind of funny or cute

Quoted from DustinBowcot Code CROAKER Who's got the remote, RIBBIT? This reads as though he's asking somebody called RIBBIT who has the remote. The RIBBIT should come after the question as it is not actually a part of it.

Yeah, I agree.  Several peeps seemed to be confused over this, and it is my fault.  It should come after the question mark.  My mistake.

Quoted from DustinBowcot Code A fluffy bunny holds up an old remote, turns off the TV's. TVs. The above is also an incomplete sentence. Pretty sure I saw you bang on about this in the Payload thread. Yet here you are employing the same thing yourself. And why? Just so you don't have one of your dreaded orphans on the page.

I think we're clear now that "TV's" is a mistake.

You are 100% incorrect on this being an incomplete sentence, though, and I implore you an/or anyone else to show me why it's not a complete sentence.

But, more importantly, so what if it was?  What I "bang on about" is fragments.  This is not a fragment in any way, shape, or form.  I've omitted the word "and", and used a comma in it's place, as I always do, as peeps always should.  "and" is not a necessary word in screenplays 99% of the time.

Quoted from DustinBowcot Code (50 year old fourteen foot long alligator) 50-year-old, fourteen-foot alligator... The length goes without saying. Code 15 year old 15-year-old Code 6 year old Code 5 year old Don't you like hyphens?

No, not a big fan of hyphens, really, but you are 100% correct here.  I rarely if ever spell out introduction details like this, and I obviously overlooked these.  Thanks for pointing them out.

Quoted from DustinBowcot Code The animals jump off, as Big Al takes his place on his throne, which is actually a discarded marble countertop. The animals jump off as Big Al climbs onto his throne - a discarded marble countertop.

Again, this isn't something anyone would bring up, unless they're trying as hard as they can to nitpick as much as possible.  There is absolutely nothing wrong with the line as written.  What I wrote does not take up any additional lines.  I merely have 3 extra words based on how I structured the sentence.

Quoted from DustinBowcot That's the first half a page and I only have ten minutes left of freedom that I don't want to waste on reading any more. For somebody with such high technical standards when it comes to other people's work, this script is quite tragic.

Tragic?  Really?  If you read this alongside the other 19 entries, you'd call the writing here "tragic"?  I find that truly ridiculous, and I think you and anyone else who reads this would agree, but I'm out of touch, I guess, and the worst writer in this challenge, as others have noted.

Thanks for your very well meaning post and feedback.  It's much appreciated.

Quoted from eldave1   So, why do I mention all of the above errors? Normally I would not go into that level of detail or nit picky for a script that is written in three days. I expect there will be some errors and I don't view these exercises so much as correcting scripts as I do rating them. But I'm angry. Last night I looked at Paradise Airlines and came across Jeff's review: Lazy-arse effort - mistakes of every kind - rush job. All over-the-top insults, confusing brutal honestly with brutality.  So, in my view - had Jeff read this script (New York) written by someone else he would have skewered it and the writer. Might have even been out on page 1 if it was a ten page challenge with something akin to " if there are this many errors in the opening I'm sure the rest is the same - I can't go on." Long winded way of saying - you got to play in the sandbox you picked. If you are going to weight these things as important in other scripts - weight them important in yours.

Dave, I'll respond to your complete post as well, when I can, but let's clear something up here right now.

The review I gave for "Paradise Airlines" is spot on.  Everything I said was 100% true, and the brief things I bought up were less than 10% of the errors, mistakes, awkward writing, poor Slug use, underdeveloped story, no characters, etc.  No one should argue with a word I said...and I bet ya, there's not a single writer in this tournament that will take it personally.

You know why?  Because I wrote the damn thing, and I was as brutally honest as I am all the time.

What do you think about that?  

Written and conceived in 48 minutes, title page, logline, and submission 10 minutes.  Don correctly told me, "you made it with 2 minutes to spare."

Very embarrassing.  I didn't actually even read it until the next morning, and I laughed a little, cried a little, and then started drinking heavily.  HA!!

My favorite part was "100% healthy organs". The greatest unfilmable ever conceived!  

Quoted from Dreamscale Dave, I'll respond to your complete post as well, when I can, but let's clear something up here right now. The review I gave for "Paradise Airlines" is spot on.  Everything I said was 100% true, and the brief things I bought up were less than 10% of the errors, mistakes, awkward writing, poor Slug use, underdeveloped story, no characters, etc.  No one should argue with a word I said...and I bet ya, there's not a single writer in this tournament that will take it personally. You know why?  Because I wrote the damn thing, and I was as brutally honest as I am all the time. What do you think about that?   Written and conceived in 48 minutes, title page, logline, and submission 10 minutes.  Don correctly told me, "you made it with 2 minutes to spare." Very embarrassing.  I didn't actually even read it until the next morning, and I laughed a little, cried a little, and then started drinking heavily.  HA!!

Brilliant

Ok, Rick, your turn, brother.  I'm a little surprised to read this from you, but it's all in good fun, so let's see exactly what we have here...

Quoted from Scar Tissue Films I love Jeff, his reviews are great and I think he's a very good writer when he puts his mind to it but the reviews of this were consistently bad....for a good reason.

Consistently bad?  They were?  Hmmm, I didn't quite see it that way.

And, "for good reason"?  Really?  OK, let's move forward...

Quoted from Scar Tissue Films The characters were completely unrelatable and forgettable...I'd have to open the script to remember anything about any of them. That was because there were far too many, so all of them were underdeveloped. It was hard to even find a central character.

WOW...again, I'm just literally floored reading this.

You really think the characters here were worse than the vast majority of these scripts?  Forgettable?  WOW...each one was actually completely unique, if you think about it.

Far too many characters...yeah, heard that a number of times.  Also heard, too many characters, had to start skimming.  HA, that's actually quite humorous.  You guys are killing me.

Let's look at all these characters for a second...

11 named characters, 7 with at least 2 or more lines of dialogue, and 2 with 1 line of dialogue.  There are numerous background characters that "are just there".

Is that way too many, considering that 7 named characters are different kinds of animals, 2 are humans, and 2 are "multiple characters".  Is this really hard to differentiate and keep track of?

How many characters do you have in your entry, Rick?  It's hard to say, because a number of them aren't properly intro'd, but I did count, and there are 8 who speak at least 1 line.  There's more, but again, hard to really count, based on how it's written.

So, I have 9 speaking, you have 8.  Am I missing something here?  You really think any one of your characters are more memorable than mine?  Not a fucking chance, and it's a joke if you actually disagree.

Quoted from Scar Tissue Films The central premise was very boring. The whole story was about a meal. Creatures you couldn't relate to, involved in zero stakes manoeuvres.

Very boring?  OK, if that's what you really thought.  I didn't think so at all.

Maybe you're not a fan of animated movies and the like...maybe that's why you find every single "creature" unrelatable?  If you take a second to really read in, I think you'll find quite a bit of personality in each and every character.

Quoted from Scar Tissue Films The prose is OK technically (but full of the same mistakes he will trash an entire script for if he finds just one), but he gave away the ending in the middle of the story...so structurally it was very poor. It was very poor story-telling.

Not even close.  Sure there are little mistakes, but to say "full of the same mistakes he will trash an entire script for"?  Really?  No, not remotely close.

So, here's another interesting "point" a few brought up.  "He gave away the ending on page 3 and 4 of the 5 page script, so he blew it".  HA, again very funny.  We've got readers here who can't even follow along to things that are literally spelled out, and you think there's a simple way not to show what's going on, and have the ending make sense?  I mean, for God's sake, it's an animated comedy and look how many peeps had no clue why there were little wispy ghosts around the ghost peppers.  Really?  Peeps can't understand that?

I structured this the way I did to make it easy to follow and understand.  I saw no way around that in 5 pages, and in reality, there was some stuff that had to get cut when Chester confronted Francesca.

Prose has nothing to do with story structure.

Quoted from Scar Tissue Films It's also a comedy round and was supposed to be funny...and it wasn't. There wasn't a moment that even raised a smile. Not one line of dialogue, which also makes the dialogue very poor.

I'm shocked again to hear this.  Not 1 funny moment here.  Not 1 funny line of dialogue.  Sad to hear this, as I tried and thought I really succeeded.

Quoted from Scar Tissue Films I think it did well to get into the top ten tbh, I think both Tosher's Tale and Agent Eleven are better than it.

Yeah, reading these all, I guess I'm lucky to not be in 16th or 17th.  Some real amazing scripts this round and just so funny.  NOT!!!

I won't even comment on the no dialogue entry or the Sherlock Holmes spoof, but...really?  Honestly, Rick?

Quoted from Scar Tissue Films I wouldn't normally post something like this, but it's just to point out that people have different, subjective opinions on things and Jeff is far more brutal in his reviews, so he has to take it as well.  It was obvious to me that this one was not going to get near the top.  Almost everyone had the same problems with the script. You need to take a good percentage with you to place well.

Jeff can take it for sure.  Just wish what I had to take made a little more sense.

Again, Rick, I'm very surprised this is all coming from you.  Your entry here was absolutely ridiculous, and the audience it would appeal to has got to be less than 5% of the world population.  And I mean that seriously, sorry to say.

Quoted from Dreamscale ...You know why?  Because I wrote the damn thing...

Bummer Dave, the one time Jeff keeps a low profile, changes his M.O. and doesn't lavish his own script with praise.

Quoted from LC Bummer Dave, the one time Jeff keeps a low profile, changes his M.O. and doesn't lavish his own script with praise.

I know - right.

Not to worry. I'm going to save his review on a word file and just cut and paste it as my comment on all of his future OWC entries

Quoted from eldave1 I know - right. Not to worry. I'm going to save his review on a word file and just cut and paste it as my comment on all of his future OWC entries

That seems right, Dave.  Thanks for being the voice of reason, like you so want to be.

But, wouldn't it make more sense just to grade each script based on what it is, not by who wrote it?

You guys are unreal.

You want me to go away?  I can...very easily.

Fuck all those sheep who think they can be wolves.  You're not.  You're weak.

I'm not a sheep or a wolf. I'm a goat. Most of the time I eat, but sometimes I go "baaaaa".

Quoted from Dreamscale That seems right, Dave.  Thanks for being the voice of reason, like you so want to be. But, wouldn't it make more sense just to grade each script based on what it is, not by who wrote it? You guys are unreal. You want me to go away?  I can...very easily. Fuck all those sheep who think they can be wolves.  You're not.  You're weak.

Don't go! I needs your warm touch, Bro.

Quoted from Dreamscale That seems right, Dave.  Thanks for being the voice of reason, like you so want to be. But, wouldn't it make more sense just to grade each script based on what it is, not by who wrote it? You guys are unreal. You want me to go away?  I can...very easily. Fuck all those sheep who think they can be wolves.  You're not.  You're weak.

Jeff - it was a joke. Good grief. Did you seriously think I meant I was literally going to do this? Did I need more .

For the record, I am not a wolf, sheep or the voice of reason.

..........

I'm Batman.

Quoted from eldave1 Jeff - it was a joke. Good grief. Did you seriously meant I was literally going to do this? Did I need more . For the record, I am not a wolf, sheep or the voice of reason. .......... I'm Batman.

I'm not sure anymore, Dave...

Quoted from Dreamscale I'm not sure anymore, Dave...

Okay.  I will clarify exactly how I feel.

I will view all if your work with an open mind. Especially easy in OWCs since they are anonymous.

I am generally okay with the points you make in your reviews of other scripts with noted exceptions on some technical differences we have. However I think your criticisms are expressed way too harshly sometimes.  I think you should change that.  but obviously your prerogative.

I really did not like your inferences of cheating,  score rigging, etc in this contest . They were uncalled for and beneath you. And if you do think there were shenanigans- best handled with a PM to Don.

Like me and most every other writer., I don't think you evaluate your work objectively.  I don't either for my scripts.  However,  when there is a disconnect between how you view your scripts versus how others do, you go off the rails a bit. Well,  in this OWC that is.

I think you must be tired or fatigued or whatever because your comments in this OWC have evolved from biting to mean spirited.

That is what I think.  Conveyed sincerely and with no I'll intention.