I think that unfortunately Hollywood has undergone a paradigm shift for the worse, in part due to the bad economy...

Whereas in the past producers could afford to take a chance on an undiscovered because they knew they had 5 bankable projects in the works, nowadays even projects with bankable stars are having tough draws...

Talent will still win out though, so my advice to everyone here (including myself) is write, READ, and do anything you can to immerse yourself in as much material as you can to make yourself better...

Oh, and a complete subjugation of your ego also helps.  A writer on the verge of getting a project done told me that he learned this the hard way and there is no reason I should have to learn it the same way.  That's perhaps the toughest advice to take...

Everyone complains about Hollywood and their cruddy movies, but I remember Robert McKee saying that the films coming out of Hollywood is a direct reflection of the deterioration of the writing nowadays. Basically he said, Hollywood is constantly looking for the greatest scripts, but they're very hard to find.  

Quoted from Grandma Bear Everyone complains about Hollywood and their cruddy movies, but I remember Robert McKee saying that the films coming out of Hollywood is a direct reflection of the deterioration of the writing nowadays. Basically he said, Hollywood is constantly looking for the greatest scripts, but they're very hard to find.

I knew they were making the same movies over and over again and I've been saying it since Spiderman 2 was like Spiderman 1 and then Spiderman 3 was an exact copy of the first two.

They all have the exact same plot. Bad guy starts good, something happens to make him bad. MJ gets in trouble and at the end they become good again in a matter of speaking.

I just spoiled all three Spiderman movies and it's a shame that they are so simple.

me (btw every time I see your posts I think I posted it!),

It's an interesting way to look at it and it made me think.  That's probably half the problem - the other half is that 80-90% of the world is made up of sheep, who are easily mollified and who feel safe with what works...

This is probably the way it will always be, since if the fringe element (cinematically speaking) became the norm well, then, it would be the norm, wouldn't it?

Oh and about Spiderman - one good thing came out of James Franco croaking in 3 - he now has time to do a guest spot on "General Hospital"...

Yeah, I'm a dude and I'm a GH fan - is there a problem with that?  

Quoted from Grandma Bear Everyone complains about Hollywood and their cruddy movies, but I remember Robert McKee saying that the films coming out of Hollywood is a direct reflection of the deterioration of the writing nowadays. Basically he said, Hollywood is constantly looking for the greatest scripts, but they're very hard to find.

I dont agree with this comment, there is good scripts in hollywood , and i dont see the deterioration of the writing. I think the problem is that the big studios choose to produce the commercial ones not the good ones....

And the spiderman is of cource a commercial script.....

The problem is in audience not in writers.

Quoted from Dimitris I dont agree with this comment, there is good scripts in hollywood , and i dont see the deterioration of the writing. I think the problem is that the big studios choose to produce the commercial ones not the good ones.... And the spiderman is of cource a commercial script..... The problem is in audience not in writers.

I agree to an extent.

I don't really blame Hollywood for what they do. It's a vicious circle though. They have to keep making money to keep on making films, so the onus becomes on going with commercial scripts. The studios have now cancelled a lot of projects in favour of video game tie ins and that kind of thing, because it has an already established audience.

Then audiences complain that the Hollywood well has run well and truly dry because they are only making remakes and stories based on stuff that they already know, which they then complain about because the Hollywood system changes it so much it doesn't even resemble the original.

But they go to see it in the first place, as you suggest.

At the same time I can't blame audiences because they are only aware of the major Hollywood films because of the level of advertising and smaller films that try something new disappear without trace after a couple of days or a week at most.

Ultimately that is why so many filmmakers are now looking at self-distribution methods as the traditional system is fundamentally broken.

Remember that this is an opportnity though. Hollywood has backed itself into a corner. It can only make stupid, inoffensive films geared to a mass market. It can't risk going near things that are different, controversial or potentially ground breaking.

That is where the opportunity lies for those that are not part of the system. You can make anything you want without the pressure of time or having to worry about outside influences.

Quoted from Dimitris The problem is in audience not in writers.

I think it's both. Everyone blames the producers for stinkers but no one wants to hold the writers and directors accountable. Somebody had to make it after all. Maybe it's because we're of the same ilk or something. Lots of writers for hire out there. I don't think I'm cynical enough to think that all of them write solely for paychecks but I think a good chuck of them have low standards for what makes a good movie. Case in point, The Ugly Truth. I really don't care what anyone says. It's a good idea for a movie. I don't think I need to tell anyone how it really turned out.

That said, the writers who get produced in Hollywood are only a small fraction of the writers who actually write in Hollywood. I'm positive there's a ton of talented writers out there.

Quoted from James McClung I think it's both. Everyone blames the producers for stinkers but no one wants to hold the writers and directors accountable. Somebody had to make it after all. Maybe it's because we're of the same ilk or something. Lots of writers for hire out there. I don't think I'm cynical enough to think that all of them write solely for paychecks but I think a good chuck of them have low standards for what makes a good movie. Case in point, The Ugly Truth. I really don't care what anyone says. It's a good idea for a movie. I don't think I need to tell anyone how it really turned out. That said, the writers who get produced in Hollywood are only a small fraction of the writers who actually write in Hollywood. I'm positive there's a ton of talented writers out there.

When it comes to the system, the producers pick the scripts up from the writers and give it to a director who generally can do what he wants to with it. So the question becomes whether the director changed the script after he got it, the producer changed the script after he got it, or the writer stank to begin with. In all likelihood, the original script was fine, or they wouldn't have grabbed it. Then too many minds worked it over to make it more commercial or to satisfy the star who wanted more screentime (I mean, the star is bringing in the audience, right?), and when you get to the end of the process, the art that was becomes the commercial star vehicle that we're tired of. Whose fault is it? Studios gotta make money by bringing in the audience, and the audience won't show unless that star gets their screentime.

Movies are a collaborative effort, so when they make one looking "just so," not only can you blame the studio, but the average moviegoers as well. Look at our most recent blockbuster: New Moon. It's a sequel based on a book. It works decently as a companion to the books, but you can't just watch it by itself. Whose fault is that movie? You have the author of the series, the screenwriter who adapted it, the director who made it the way it is and approved every piece of it, and the TARGET audience who wants to see the story they want to see.

None of us are average moviegoers, so we have trouble "getting" what THEY want to see. I hear people around my office rave about this movie or that movie that I have seen and I shake my head because the movies they love really, really suck. Yet, they love these films, so in deference to us more "enlightened" viewers, they'll make the movies that appeal to the masses.

"I hear people around my office rave about this movie or that movie that I have seen and I shake my head because the movies they love really, really suck. Yet, they love these films, so in deference to us more "enlightened" viewers, they'll make the movies that appeal to the masses."

-- Apologies for going off topic but I can't help being curious over what movies your co-workers talk about? I have the same experiences time and again but keep quiet the majority of the time for fear of sounding like a snob who gets accused of "hating anything mainstream" which of course isn't true but its hard to get your point across when one in the minority. So as I said, (most of the time) I keep my mouth shut. Doing my bit to live by the "everyone's opinion is valid" maxim.