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Bane killed it for me... Simply not intimidating enough. When I'm bigger and more imposing than the most bad-ass villain of all time -- That's not good. They "tried" to make him seem bigger, but I just couldn't get over the fact he wasn't Bane. Hardy is simply not Jeep Swenson,(RIP) whom played him in B&R, or Glenn Jacobs, who should've been cast to play him.
I was shocked by some of the call backs to Begin and it was well written and, as always, Bale was stellar -- But I hope this is the last we see of Batman for a loooooooooooooong time. A reboot will no doubt tarnish the work done here anyways.
I thought it was okay. It was nowhere near the perfection of The Dark Knight, but it was great compared to the other action movies coming out nowadays.
I just couldn't handle the tonal and pace shifts, and a lot of the first act seemed a bit confusing (to me, at least). I feel like more time should have been spent there.
umm the similarities is they both happened with this batman franchise... Heath Ledger was a huge part (arguably) of the last movie's success...and presumably was on pills dealing with depression as a result of playing the part of The Joker.
the shooter -it is being said... was calling himself the joker.... and killed a bunch of people in a batman screening. so yes they are very much related.
Brilliant movie. Better than The Dark Knight, but I'd have to see it again before I decided if it's better than Begins. My only complaint would be that Gary Oldman and Morgan Freeman are severely underused. Nolan's got two of the greatest actors in the world basically twiddling their thumbs for the whole movie. But this one improved on the flaws of its predecessor (although Hardy's bane isn't quite as interesting a villain as The Joker) and delivers a tremendously satisfying conclusion. It'll be sad to see someone else take up Bale's cowl, but with any luck Warner Bros. will do what they did with Nolan and take a chance on a fairly unknown filmmaker that really has a vision for where the franchise can go and can bring something fresh and different to the story.
As for the shooting, it's a real tragedy but you can't blame this or any other movie. It is not Hollywood that creates these people, it's out culture. No one goes crazy enough to walk into a movie theater and shoot a bunch of people without first being crazy enough for someone to notice. So blame the guy who sold him assault rifles and gas bombs, blame the neglectful parents or the cops who didn't take someone's warning about him seriously; blame anyone you like, but the one thing that's not to blame is this movie. Anyone who wants to have this film pulled or boycott it would be denying themselves a truly exhilarating experience. End of rant.
I can't live the buttoned-down life like you. I want it all. The dizzying highs, the terrifying lows, the creamy middles. Sure, I may offend some of the blue bloods with my cocky stride and musky odors. Oh, I'll never be the darling of the so-called "city fathers," who cluck their tongues, stroke their beards and talk about what's to be done with this Homer Simpson?
I was unfamiliar with the Bane-character before seeing this one but I thought Hardy did great, especially considering you don't really see has face (except that one scene), some snappy dialogue obviously helped. He was big but not ridiculously big but most importantly he was just plain stronger than Batman.
Before seeing this movie I had one giant fear, the Selina Kyle/Catwoman character. I kept picturing the god awful performances by Michelle Pfeiffer and Halle Berry but Nolan's version worked really, really well.
My only minor gripe is that the movie was a tad on the long side (probably because I really needed to take a piss during the last 30 minutes - and I didn't want to miss anything). I remember feeling the same way about The Dark Knight but when I rewatched it it didn't feel long at all. It's probably gonna be the same with TDKR.
Other than that - totally fucking epic.
Down in the hole / Jesus tries to crack a smile / Beneath another shovel load
Have to agree with Rick on the emotion in this film, it was great to see some real conflict between characters and the emotion brough to the fore.
Have to disagree with Baltis on Bane's size being an issue. Nolan focused more on his strategic ability, intelligence, cunning and use of fear and terrorism. Casting Bane as some over sized muscle bound freak just turns him into a comic villan or a caraciture. Hardy was cast not for his size, but for his acting chops and in that regard I think he did a fine job.
SPOLIER:
Dissapointed with the manner in which Bane was dispatched.
I enjoyed this as well. For the first time in the Nolan franchise, I really worried about Batman's survival. He was clearly outmatched by Bane physically. Plus, Bruce Wayne's body is just a mess anymore. Crippled from years of fighting. After swiftly getting his ass kicked by Bane the first go around, I was on pins and needles the second time they square off.
Eventhough I don't think Hardy's Bane was nearly as interesting as Ledger's joker, I never felt intimidated by the joker. He was fun to watch. With Bane, Batman seemed to be up against impossible odds.
SPOILER:
I agree with Eoin. While the second fight between Batman and Bane was satisfying, his final demise was a bit lackluster for me as well.
Casting Bane as some over sized muscle bound freak just turns him into a comic villan or a caraciture.
To be fair, Bane is just that though... A muscle bound freak of nature with supreme intelligence. He was a comic villain long before this movie. And this is where I often disagree with people about the Nolan batman series... I respect he took it in a more realistic approach -- but it isn't Batman to me. It's more like action man -- man dressed kind of like batman who fights kind of like batman villains. Bale, as always, is an amazing actor -- he has such range, probably the best of this generation for sure. But he just isn't batman or Bruce Wayne to me.
Batman, to me, is a very different thing all together... This vision just didn't do it for me. I watched each one at box-office and do not regret seeing these films, but I feel someone needs to come along and try and put Batman back into the gritty Gotham City found in the comics. To fight the colorful characters and do amazing things that only Batman can do in his universe... not ours.
I felt Bane, from the 90's, was the best villain of all time... I loved the series where he came in and destroyed Gotham and took it to nothing in nothing flat. But this Bane just wasn't that Bane. And, again, I'm ok with it because this whole series has been a departure from the comics...
I loathed the dark knight and won't be seeing this new one. Bale the main prob for me.
I'd like to see a reboot done. Set it in the 50's, 60's, or 70's. No allegorical rubbish about the state of the modern world, etc, just Batman fighting villians
I loathed the dark knight and won't be seeing this new one. Bale the main prob for me.
I'd like to see a reboot done. Set it in the 50's, 60's, or 70's. No allegorical rubbish about the state of the modern world, etc, just Batman fighting villians
I wouldn't go so far as to say I want a re-representation of the tv series -- Clooney already proved it won't work. But I would like to see someone take a stab at the "Untold Legends" version of Batman...
I'd like to see Adrien Brody cast as the Joker and Ryan Gosling play Bruce Wayne and Batman... I think there is huge potential with both of them. But, alas, I am wishful casting.
I'd like to come in an reiterate after having seen the film 2 times now -- Went with my nephew and took my little girl to see it yesterday.
my complaints are a great many, but I'll narrow them down a bit.
1. If Gordon was such a good cop, then good detective and then great commisoner -- Why didn't he know Batman's true identity? Gordon Levitt sure did right off the bat.
2. How could a little girl climb out of the hole, but Bane couldn't?
3. Bane blows up half of Gotham and Bale, in prision, is little more than agitated... Yet when he sees 3 guys being flown around by helicopter he gets, as he said, "ANGRY".
4. Batman kicks the living piss out of Bane on their 2nd go around so bad it reminded me of Rocky 3's whole MR.T scenario. The comparison is so blatant and so obvious.
5. Bane's death was a joke.
6. Not one time in the entire movie did Catwoman get hit. Not one. This got on my nerves... Not because I wanted to see some dude beat her up, but because she was given a free pass the entire film at the risk of making women happy. I felt her whole character was tossed in for no other reason than, they had to do something.
7. I hated how Bane was sitting idle in the courtroom, a mere fixture, while the scaercrow was dealing out the judgments. It made his character seem weaker somehow.
8. The ending was absolute tripe. Horrible. In fact, it was so bad I think it was a pick up. all of it. I think nolan did kill Batman off in the explosion, they screened it and it got bad reviews and so Hollywood made him shoot the absurd ending we got with Bale and, of all people, catwoman at the eatery. Lame butter.
9. The atomic explosion in the ocean was so absurd... The whole scene, like the whole movie, seemed a phone in -- Much like Bane and Batman's 2nd fight, where Batman kicks the piss out of him was taken from rocky 3 -- I felt the whole lifting the bomb in the air bit and flying it out of harms way was lifted from "Angels & Demons". What really got me was, at very least, there should have been a huge tidal wave come in on the lower east end of Gotham from the explosion... Let's face it, he didn't take it too far out from the city.
10. Dialogue that had nothing at all to do with what was going on. For instance, Bale saying "I like your apartment" was so awkwardly read and placed. But there were more of these instances than just that one. The whole movie was filled with stuff like that... When gordon is in the hospital and he deems ol' buddy a detective... WTF???
I can and probably should go on -- But the whole movie, right down to toss away dialogue was sub-par. I truly hope this is the last time Nolan helms a Batman movie.
I hated how Bane was sitting idle in the courtroom, a mere fixture, while the scaercrow was dealing out the judgments. It made his character seem weaker somehow.
Dude, that’s spooky you said it that way. All afternoon, they have been showing the man who did the shootings in the courtroom acting exactly like this…
I'd like to come in an reiterate after having seen the film 2 times now -- Went with my nephew and took my little girl to see it yesterday.
my complaints are a great many, but I'll narrow them down a bit.
1. If Gordon was such a good cop, then good detective and then great commisoner -- Why didn't he know Batman's true identity? Gordon Levitt sure did right off the bat.
2. How could a little girl climb out of the hole, but Bane couldn't?
3. Bane blows up half of Gotham and Bale, in prision, is little more than agitated... Yet when he sees 3 guys being flown around by helicopter he gets, as he said, "ANGRY".
4. Batman kicks the living piss out of Bane on their 2nd go around so bad it reminded me of Rocky 3's whole MR.T scenario. The comparison is so blatant and so obvious.
5. Bane's death was a joke.
6. Not one time in the entire movie did Catwoman get hit. Not one. This got on my nerves... Not because I wanted to see some dude beat her up, but because she was given a free pass the entire film at the risk of making women happy. I felt her whole character was tossed in for no other reason than, they had to do something.
7. I hated how Bane was sitting idle in the courtroom, a mere fixture, while the scaercrow was dealing out the judgments. It made his character seem weaker somehow.
8. The ending was absolute tripe. Horrible. In fact, it was so bad I think it was a pick up. all of it. I think nolan did kill Batman off in the explosion, they screened it and it got bad reviews and so Hollywood made him shoot the absurd ending we got with Bale and, of all people, catwoman at the eatery. Lame butter.
9. The atomic explosion in the ocean was so absurd... The whole scene, like the whole movie, seemed a phone in -- Much like Bane and Batman's 2nd fight, where Batman kicks the piss out of him was taken from rocky 3 -- I felt the whole lifting the bomb in the air bit and flying it out of harms way was lifted from "Angels & Demons". What really got me was, at very least, there should have been a huge tidal wave come in on the lower east end of Gotham from the explosion... Let's face it, he didn't take it too far out from the city.
10. Dialogue that had nothing at all to do with what was going on. For instance, Bale saying "I like your apartment" was so awkwardly read and placed. But there were more of these instances than just that one. The whole movie was filled with stuff like that... When gordon is in the hospital and he deems ol' buddy a detective... WTF???
I can and probably should go on -- But the whole movie, right down to toss away dialogue was sub-par. I truly hope this is the last time Nolan helms a Batman movie.
haven't seen it but to me, it's a rental. sorry. bb
I wouldn't go so far as to say I want a re-representation of the tv series -- Clooney already proved it won't work. But I would like to see someone take a stab at the "Untold Legends" version of Batman...
I'd like to see Adrien Brody cast as the Joker and Ryan Gosling play Bruce Wayne and Batman... I think there is huge potential with both of them. But, alas, I am wishful casting.
I think if they were to re-do Batman again (although I enjoyed Scarecrow from "Begins"), I would actually like to see Black Mask as the main villain in the inevitable reboot part two.
I kind of would've liked to have seen a full "The Long Halloween" but that'd be a trilogy in itself.
I think if they were to re-do Batman again (although I enjoyed Scarecrow from "Begins"), I would actually like to see Black Mask as the main villain in the inevitable reboot part two.
I kind of would've liked to have seen a full "The Long Halloween" but that'd be a trilogy in itself.
Hope, I suppose.
I so agree. Black and white. VERY 40'S - a whole NEW franchise trend and compelling? OH YEAH. bb
A lot of valid points. But at the end of the day, money talks. We (assuming we are all adults ) are not the target demograph. A 40's/50's style reboot would be great, but I don't think it would have borad enough appeal to get the core audience on seats. Burton's attempt was great, but it was smothered in cheese, just killed it. No grit.
There are plenty of things you could question in the logic of Nolan's Batman universe. I'd love to know Superman shaves if he's so indestructible. Let's assume he uses focused laser vision . . .
I haven't seen this yet, but the other day Dark Knight was on. This was the first time I had watched it since I began learning screenwriting, and I sometimes see film a little different now. I have to say, it's surprising how many problems there are with Dark Knight, and they don't seem to bother anyone, which in itself might reveal something.
Heath Ledger's Joker is brilliantly written and portrayed. Obviously that is the strength of the film. But there are major issues with the rest of the film. Try to imagine this as a screenplay. For one thing, there are a lot of characters. Now, I am one of those strange people that actually likes a lot of characters in a movie. But many of these characters are completely uninteresting, despite being played by quality actors.
My biggest problem is the vast number of "fast forward" scenes. Scene after scene where there is little conflict and that don't really move the story. They move the plot, and only the plot, and even then, they don't feel necessary.
To be honest, this film suffers from many problems I've had in my own work, where the plot becomes too convoluted, where most people can't follow it, and those that can start losing interest in trying to.
I applaud the effort, on the whole. Nolan is at least trying to do something interesting and adult, which is a big step up. What I get most out of these films is not so much satisfaction on the product itself, but a desire to see his future work, see where he goes from here.
Finally, as I said, I think the Ledger Joker does give us an insight into what works. When I character is that brilliant, it can carry the film. I think sometimes even one or two really memorable scenes in a movie can have audiences leave feeling satisfied. Likewise, one really bad scene can really kill a film. So in our own work, the challenge is to find the memorable scene and avoid the movie killing scene!
10/10? Were you guys seeing the same film that I was?
The Dark Knight Rises was good, but FAR from perfect. To be honest, The Dark Knight is one of the most overrated films ever IMO, so I wasn't expecting much from Nolan's third entry.
But let's start off on a positive note with what worked in the film. Mainly, Joseph Gordon-Levitt. He's absolutely dynamite and he really honed in his performance. Gary Oldman was amazing as well (but that's to be expected). Furthermore, TDKR has it's heart in the right place. It aspires to be so much, to be so epic. And I commend Nolan for those intentions. In addition, the direction, cinematography, score, and action sequences are all solid.
But overall the film feels a little...flat. And there are several reasons for this.
First, the film falls apart when you start asking questions like "how" and "why." For example, why in god's name would the chief of police send ALL of his troops underground? It makes no sense whatsoever. In fact, there was a lot in the film that made little sense whatsoever. Characters act as though they know the outcome (which was the biggest flaw with TDK). This even applies to small scale action sequences. For example, Catwoman pushes someone out of window and lands on a scaffold. How dafaq did she know there was a scaffold a few stories below her? Furthermore, the portrayal of gotham under lock down was anything but unbelievable. you mean to tell me that NO ONE would try to cross those bridges? There would be a mass mob in minutes.
Secondly, the overall story structure was both tedious and tiresome. At the beginning of the film, bruce wayne is out of commission and needs motivation to become the bat once more. well half way through the film SPOILERS, bane breaks bruce's back and the ENTIRE DAMN CYCLE REPEATS ITSELF. once again bruce needs to overcome something in order to put on the bat suit. by second time, i was rolling my eyes, hoping to get the entire ordeal over as quickly as possible. cue the montage music. Speaking of which, the whole 5 month countdown device served one purpose and one purpose only...to help us believe that Bruce's back could be repaired in a matter of months. it's kind of silly really.
Bane was okay. i was really interested in him at first and that intriqued eventually wore off. by the end of the film, he just looked silly. nolan tried so hard but really missed the mark. oh and catwoman was merely a placeholder. thought hathaway was somewhat decent but was 50/50 overall. sometimes she nailed it, others not so much. in addition, there really wasnt much to her character. she really lacked motivation IMO.
was it me, or did Alfred do nothing but cry like a whiny bitch throughout the entire movie? he was literally crying in every scene.
the "twists" are pretty predictable if you read too much information regarding the casting of the film. this was probably my fault.
how in god's name did SPOILERS talia die in that vehicular crash yet gordon just walk out the back like nothing happened? mind you, there was an atomic bomb in there with him.
dialogue was pretty subpart. the hand to hand combat scenes were mediocre at best. a bit dull if you ask me.
but overall, my biggest problem with TDKR is that there's really no message. What was the point of it all? What was the morale of the story? I felt like TDK provided these answers, but not TDKR didn't explore this territory at all. And this is the point of movie making in general. TDKR doesn't have much to say and it really shows. And at the end of the day, it's why I wasn't invested in the film.
I really loved this film, surprisingly even more than the Dark Knight. I thought the Joker was fantastic but the fact that Bane was not only mentally intimidating, but also a strong physical threat to Batman made him all the more threatening. I liked how everyone really had to come together to stop him, and the last character reveal at the end really got me pumped. It makes me curious as to what the next director will do with the franchise.
I wish I could take the credit for that Babz, but it's not mine. I have a pet cat who rules the roost and someone emailed me this ages ago. Looks like he was caught mid grooming.
I really needed to take a piss during the last 30 minutes - and I didn't want to miss anything.
^^ This. My bladder felt like the Hoover dam that last 20 minutes. Kept praying for this thing to wrap up.
Out of the trilogy, I'd probably put this in third -- slightly behind Dark Knight. Batman Begins, IMO, was just a much better movie than its sequels. Like albinopenguin, I also felt that the contrivance of isolating Gotham from the rest of the country simply wasn't believable, even in a movie like this. Things took on a very ponderous tone after the football stadium scene. The tension dissipated because the "ticking time bomb" had such a long fuse -- five months! Just enough time for Batman to get back in shape and find his inspiration, which was convenient for him.
SPOILER The Cotillard reveal -- granted, I didn't foresee her being Ras' daughter or the mystery child who escaped the pit -- but you knew she had to be a bad guy. There was simply no other reason for her characer to be in the movie. I found myself waiting for the twist, which was well-timed but very expected.
Overall I found this to be a satisfying, if bloated and disjointed end to the series. Could have been better, but its still much more intricate and deep than the standard action fare.
It's what I expect. Boring in some parts, thrilling in others. Overall I enjoyed (twice), I think it definitely tops the previous one, but Batman Begins was far better. I think most would agree.
Ann Hathaway was absolutely lush and IMO, she stole the show. Maybe they can spin off a movie of her own. Who knows.
I'd like to come in an reiterate after having seen the film 2 times now -- Went with my nephew and took my little girl to see it yesterday.
my complaints are a great many, but I'll narrow them down a bit.
1. If Gordon was such a good cop, then good detective and then great commisoner -- Why didn't he know Batman's true identity? Gordon Levitt sure did right off the bat.
2. How could a little girl climb out of the hole, but Bane couldn't?
3. Bane blows up half of Gotham and Bale, in prision, is little more than agitated... Yet when he sees 3 guys being flown around by helicopter he gets, as he said, "ANGRY".
4. Batman kicks the living piss out of Bane on their 2nd go around so bad it reminded me of Rocky 3's whole MR.T scenario. The comparison is so blatant and so obvious.
5. Bane's death was a joke.
6. Not one time in the entire movie did Catwoman get hit. Not one. This got on my nerves... Not because I wanted to see some dude beat her up, but because she was given a free pass the entire film at the risk of making women happy. I felt her whole character was tossed in for no other reason than, they had to do something.
7. I hated how Bane was sitting idle in the courtroom, a mere fixture, while the scaercrow was dealing out the judgments. It made his character seem weaker somehow.
8. The ending was absolute tripe. Horrible. In fact, it was so bad I think it was a pick up. all of it. I think nolan did kill Batman off in the explosion, they screened it and it got bad reviews and so Hollywood made him shoot the absurd ending we got with Bale and, of all people, catwoman at the eatery. Lame butter.
9. The atomic explosion in the ocean was so absurd... The whole scene, like the whole movie, seemed a phone in -- Much like Bane and Batman's 2nd fight, where Batman kicks the piss out of him was taken from rocky 3 -- I felt the whole lifting the bomb in the air bit and flying it out of harms way was lifted from "Angels & Demons". What really got me was, at very least, there should have been a huge tidal wave come in on the lower east end of Gotham from the explosion... Let's face it, he didn't take it too far out from the city.
10. Dialogue that had nothing at all to do with what was going on. For instance, Bale saying "I like your apartment" was so awkwardly read and placed. But there were more of these instances than just that one. The whole movie was filled with stuff like that... When gordon is in the hospital and he deems ol' buddy a detective... WTF???
I can and probably should go on -- But the whole movie, right down to toss away dialogue was sub-par. I truly hope this is the last time Nolan helms a Batman movie.
I just couldn’t let you get away with what you wrote. Just trying to put people off this film. Let me try and give you a reply:
1. If you watched the film properly you would have noticed Gordan saying to the John Blake character that he didn’t want to know who Batman was. To him he was just ‘Batman’.
2. It was NOT just a little girl. It was special girl without fear. If you truly watched the film, you would know that it wasn’t strength or sized with got you out of the pit. It was the soul. That’s the whole point of the film.
3. Now you’re just nit picking. Come on. And these people weren’t just being flown around. They were hung and displayed to the world as a message.
4. Batman does not kick the living piss out of Bane in the second fight. Bane is actually winning the fight until Batman punches his mask. Again, if you watched the film properly you would know that this mask prevented Bane from suffering extreme pain. So when it was knocked by Batman, Bane was in unbelievable pain and this gave Batman the upper hand.
5. Okay, I can agree the way Bane went out wasn’t great but how do you know he was dead. Did you see him die?
6. Again you’re clutching at straws. Catwoman’s performance was great. What you’re saying is an opinion, not an actual flaw. Her character was written perfectly. She contrasted with Batman nicely.
7. Really? It made his character seem weak. After he has been snapping people’s necks? The whole point was he was giving power back to the people. Back to the people locked up in that prison due to the lie Gordan and Batman came up with.
8. Hollywood can’t tell Nolan anything. He’s made enough money for warner bros’ to do what he likes. That’s the ending he wanted. And it tied in with Bruce Wayne and Alfred’s internal conflict. All Alfred wanted was for Bruce to stop fighting and find a life away from Gotham. And that’s what happened at the end. It was a great closure to the story.
9. Again with the nit picking. If you nit-picked this much on your favourite films, you would find things which may or may not be flaws.
10. I’m not even going to entertain your number 10. I don’t even understand it. It’s like you want to find reasons to hate this movie.
The irony is the film did have flaws and you didn’t even state one. Talia’s switch at the end was a bit too rushed. Catwoman got a bit lost during the second part of the film. The war at the end could have been more of a war (more brutal).
Other than those gripes (could be more) it was a brilliant film. 9/10 for me. Just as good as The Dark Knight.
I just couldn't let you get away with what you wrote. Just trying to put people off this film.
This is your problem... You've given me too much power.
And if memory serves, since I've spent a total of about 60 bucks on IMAX viewings around the house for seeing this film, Bane was huddled up by a statue with Batman on the approach -- Talia stabs Batman and thus the only reason Bane didn't get a further beatin'. So, yeah, Batman kicks the piss out of Bane on his second go. Just like Rocky beat Lang on his 2nd go.
Also, how the hell did Bane eat; from a straw, carefully slipped in through the side?? That puzzled me.
I liked it overall, but it's not as great as The Dark Knight. The biggest problem is the eight years, and they tried to cram too much into this story.
SPOILERS!
My problems:
How did Bane and Talia know so much about Bruce Wayne? A lot of people would say research on part of Talia, however, how would the audience know? This could've been fixed if they had someone from the first movie show up that was a witness to Raz identifying Bruce as Batman.
The second fight. It couldv'e been handled better since Batman was hitting Bane's face a lot during the first fight and nothing happened. Only in the second fight did Bane's mask gets damaged? C'mon. I would also think that Bane could have foresee this to be problem and have it fixed.
I think it should've gone has so: 1st fight, Batman exposes Bane's weakness with the mask. But Bane still kicks his ass. 2nd fight, Bane fixes the problem, and it's an all out battle between him and Batman.
They should've cut the Gordon Levitt story line. But I think Mr. Nolan did it cause of Warner Bros, and that he wanted the Batman franchise to continue with someone else.
Gabe
Just Murdered by Sean Elwood (Zombie Sean) and Gabriel Moronta (Mr. Ripley) - (Dark Comedy, Horror) All is fair in love and war. A hopeless romantic gay man resorts to bloodshed to win the coveted position of Bridesmaid. 99 pages. https://www.simplyscripts.net/cgi-bin/Blah/Blah.pl?b-comedy/m-1624410571/
I enjoyed the movie, but I don't think that it was as good as it's predecessors.
There was one minor detail that I found that annoyed me. Bear with me, I'm nitpicking here. So Batman and friends manage to open up the tunnels with all the cops stuck in them. Now we know months had gone by at this point, and I realize that they where getting some limited supplies, but I'm supposed to believe they come out in clothes looking as good as the day they went in and not exhausted at all to immediately get into a fight with Bane's men? No sir.
Captain James T. Kirk: I'm sorry, I can't hear you over the sound of how awesome I am.
I'm supposed to believe they come out in clothes looking as good as the day they went in and not exhausted at all to immediately get into a fight with Bane's men? No sir.
Push-ups, man... C'mon... We just seen Bale doing sit ups and push-ups while in the pit -- This, coupled with a shitty diet is surely enough to over come even the most insurmountable odds.
If you can suspend belief long enough to buy Bale getting the piss kicked out of him by Bane in the previous fight -- A Bale who had been training, eating properly and back into the swing of things as Batman -- then we must suspend belief long enough to think that
A) Push-ups and sit-ups are enough training to take down Bane.
&
B) The cops who were banished underground probably got wind of Bale's awesome work-out regiment
But, shhhhhhhhhh.... Don't tell any of the pony pissers the that you know the truth. They don't like that. It's "over thinking" the movie when you do that.
Bale secretly had a copy of the old Charles Atlas dynamic tension series and when the camera was off, he'd resort to this routine. He push and sit up were purely for show.
Great movie, but I could tell the "Robin" angle was probably an executive decision forced upon Nolan to keep a fourth installment a possibility.
Bruce Wayne's pushup routine in a matter of months was a bit unrealistic. Also, I don't know how anyone can escape a nuclear bomb unscathed. Even the lifting of the nuclear bomb itself is suspicious... it looked like he was flying 25 miles an hour and he had a minute left to put a nuclear bomb far enough to avoid damage to the city....
Other than that, it was good -- better than Spider Man, imho.
Bale secretly had a copy of the old Charles Atlas dynamic tension series and when the camera was off, he'd resort to this routine. He push and sit up were purely for show.
Bale secretly had a copy of the old Charles Atlas dynamic tension series and when the camera was off, he'd resort to this routine. He push and sit up were purely for show.
An interest in all thing exercise related. I have the full original series of booklets that were given to me by a family friend. This particular image though I found on the net.
A comment Baltis made about infinite numbers of push up and sit up made me think of this. Let's face it, he wasn't exactly going to become strong enough after that to defeat a man who cleaned him off the ground with one hand . . . I knew, only my friend Charles Atlas had the know how to turn Wayne into a superhero
Cat Woman/ Anne Hathaway: easily the best part of the movie. The character is brilliantly written with heart and depth. Hathaway is both convincing and entertaining, and the chemistry between her an Batman is the heart of the movie, though all of that energy comes from Hathaway. Bale does not score any points for his performance.
Bane: also excellent. His character is a Darth Vader knock off, but so what? It works. Understanding Bane's motivations are a little tricky. The idea initially seemed to be that just as Batman really wants his own end, so does Bane. Seems to be a quality of the League of Shadows. But then there's the twist, and now we know he did it for love.
Robin(the cop): effective enough. Worth having in the story.
Commissioner Gordon: I know the reason he betrayed Batman sounded logical to the writers, but really? That was why the upstanding Commish lied to the people and set up Mr. Bat? Or is it Mr. Man?
the plot: Ok, let's not call them plot holes. Let's call them plot difficulties. And there's just too many to point out. A lot of strange choices. But the whole bomb thing that was going to kill everyone including the bad guys, how does that make sense? All those Occupy people were ok with that? And they knew about it. Everyone did. This is a case where writers get into pickles and the invention to get them out is really jammed in there uncomfortably. Obviously ticking time bombs are good in film, but this was also needed in order to keep the federal army out of the city. But it means our killers want to die. Worse still, it's made clear, very clear from Liam Neeson that it is a rebalancing that's needed to make the city right again. And evil acts will accomplish this by their reasoning. But destroying the city will hardly rebalance it, will it?
That's the big plot difficulty, but there are a hundred little ones. Do they ruin the story? Nah. It still has plenty of fun moments, thrilling action, cool gadgets, tension, and a convincing chemistry between Cat W and Bat M.
the politics: there's a hot debate going on whether this movie is for the Tea Party or the Occupy; for the right or the left. Nolan spells out the answer...literally. And it's neither.
The film is clearly a reference, and a cautionary one, to the French Revolution. He leaves plenty of clues. At the end, Batman's final letter is right out of Dicken's A Tale of Two Cities. "It's a far, far better thing I've done..." This TELLS us the story is about the French Revolution if we're not already convinced.
But we should be. We have the storming of the Bastille, the revolutionary courts, even the killing of aristocrats who aided them.
Nolan's point is that this kind of thing is brewing underneath, and if you don't stop it, when it rises up, it will destroy everything in its path. Wisely, he is not taking positions on specific American movements. He is merely saying Western countries are fostering the type of conditions which in the past led to terrible destruction. He's not offering solutions. Nor should he. Batman does not offer solutions. He merely kicks ass when needed.
conclusion: a flawed movie, very flawed; but well worth the 10 bucks.
I watched this a few weeks ago when released and although I thought the first half was slow, more like a first movie of a trilogy rather than the last. The second half was epic and had me on the edge of seat...I have just loved the whole trilogy but...
Upon reading through all the posts here, it's amazing just how many plot holes there were which never appeared to me when watching.
When they said there was 10 minutes before the bomb blew, I didn't look at the time, but I swear it became 20 minutes in the movie.
Plus the whole thing where the bad guy keeps winning, but never kills him because he or she doesn't want him to miss the end...come on. That's fine for 1960s James Bond movies, or MacGuiver or something.
Bane puts him in a prison of some sort, one with no guards apparently, and leaves no one to watch him? Batman? Come on.
A five month ticking time bomb?
Batman escapes from the prison. somehow finds his way into the city, and takes the time to set up his Batman fireworks display on the bridge? Talk about an ego. And way to ruin the element of surprise for your enemies. There's 12 hrs to go before the bomb blows, and Batman is F'n around with fireworks on a bridge.
Stuff like that seems to happen every couple of minutes. I don't know, maybe expectations get to high for these things. But the movie tries so hard to be intelligent and clever, so why have all these strange plot choices?
Plus the whole thing where the bad guy keeps winning, but never kills him because he or she doesn't want him to miss the end...come on. That's fine for 1960s James Bond movies, or MacGuiver or something.
Bane puts him in a prison of some sort, one with no guards apparently, and leaves no one to watch him? Batman? Come on.
Ha, these super villains just never learn. From Austin Powers:
Scott: Wait, aren't you even gonna watch them? They could get away. Dr. Evil: No-no-no, I'm going to leave them alone and not actually witness them dying, I'm just gonna assume it all went to plan. What? Scott: I have a gun in my room. You give me 5 seconds, I'll get it. I'll come back down here, BOOM! I'll blow their brains out! Dr. Evil: Scott, you just don't get it, do ya? You don't.
I suggest you guys watch the film a second time. I had the same problems with TDKR after watching it the first time, but most of them disappeared after watching it a second time.
There's a lot of things you can miss after watching a film only once, especially one this complicated and at this scale.
I'm not saying it's perfect but you guys are exaggerating the plot holes.
Good point, Major. But to be fair, I said not holes, but difficulties. I mean Batman's escape from the pit like prison is not a hole, but it's pretty far out there. I mean Bane sets up a big TV for him to watch the city destroyed? That's weak. Bane leaves none of his men to watch him? No guards? Weak. Only two people can make that jump? What, Batman is an Olympic athlete now? Despite the medical report we saw earlier in the film, and where he has no cartilage in his knee and can barely walk? And now he has a broken back?
There are a lot of things to figure out on a later viewing. Especially if I can watch later with subtitles, because I can't always understand dialogue in a film, especially if there are sound effects. And I'm not saying everything in a film like this has to be plausible, but this one really asks a lot in the suspension of disbelief department. Don't get me wrong, though, I enjoyed it. The movie was fun. Would have liked to see Hathaway...well, enough said.
They rushed the film. That simple. It was risky in using that angle between Batman and Bane with all the stuff they had going on.
Also, they had too much going on. They should've cut something out of it like the Harvey Dent scenes or the Foley storyline.
The Dark Knight wasn't as rushed or convoluted as this one.
Gabe
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I also hope there's a director's cut also. I think Nolan must have had to cut some things out due to time constraints.
I agree it was very ambitious and they had a lot going on. Maybe it was too ambitious and what they had on paper (screenplay) didn't translate as well as they hoped onto the big screen.
But I feel the ideas it possesses were very interesting. And with the Batman in the pit thing. Bane did break his back (or dislocated it) and there has only ever been one person to escape that pit. Bane broke Batman mentally and physically; and there was no point killing Bruce Wayne at that time because, like Alfred said earlier in the film, that's what Bruce wanted.
To escape he had to find that fear again. Which really contrast perfectly and subtly with Batman Begins and his need to overcome fear it that film.
There's no other films out there like this. I mean, it's ambitious, but at least the film tried.
Bit too lazy to write out a long review on this, so I'll quote my own blog:
This is an epic in every sense. From the omnipotent brilliance of Zimmer’s score, to the scope of ambition in Nolan’s vision, to the scale of the challenges Batman must overcome - this is a work of brilliance that will inspire filmmakers for generations.
I thought it was good, but not great. An epic? Not in my books. Don't think it'll be making too many "Greatest Movie Of All Time" lists. You want to come out of the theatre thinking that Batman is one bad a$$ mofu hero, but he just got beat up the whole movie and pretty much lost his final battle. Yay??
It may or may not make the best of lists, but inspire many filmmakers it unquestionably will. The closing fight played perfectly with how they had set his character up throughout the film.
Oh god, I don't want to live in a world where TDKR inspires filmmakers to create films with gaping plot holes, cheap deaths, and subpar action sequences.
Oh god, I don't want to live in a world where TDKR inspires filmmakers to create films with gaping plot holes, cheap deaths, and subpar action sequences.
Liked it, then?
Fair enough, but out of interest, AP, what films of this ilk should inspire filmmakers, do you think?
haha I didn't hate it, but I certainly didn't love it.
Films with more heart for sure. Films with a more meaningful message. TDKR had the chance to finally say something, and it went out with a whimper. I feel like TDK was much more poignant.
haha I didn't hate it, but I certainly didn't love it.
Films with more heart for sure. Films with a more meaningful message. TDKR had the chance to finally say something, and it went out with a whimper. I feel like TDK was much more poignant.
A few of my mates have said that, too. Personally I found heart and meaning in it, but that's the beauty of film, I guess - everyone sees it through their own lens.
His climbing out of the prison (getting out of a hole) was the anchor. Was it fear or was it hope that got him up. I've been debating that one. Definite undertones to that question within the dialogue, but I thought Nolan was pretty evenhanded and neutral.
Found the movie pretty mediocre, all in all...nothing to stand out except the generally excellent technical filmmaking we've come to expect from Nolan. It all seemed a bit tired and lame. Still no break for the superhero-third-movie curse, in my opinion.
Wish I could join in. But I found this to be overall a pretty sleepy affair.
The clean energy chick cozying up was, a tad obvious. Not a lot happens in the first forty minutes of the film. Every scene with those two doofy corporate types that hired Bane were super tedious.
It just seemed wonky that Gotham was cut off for MONTHS before things happened. I liked humanity forced to examine itself in Dark Night more than here. I just didn't get much of sense of urgency throughout the film.
And Bane sounded like a poof. I dug Bane's back story, but not his presence in the film.
Batman's entrance on the back was flat. Things like Matthew Modine's character getting an off screen death. Why? The guy's gotten like a half hour of screen time and that's it? Weird.
The action's stellar. Looks phenomenal. Glad they wrapped it pretty well.
E.D.
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I have to agree with Brett. Bane was a letdown of a villain. I found his desire for chaos to be too similar to the Joker's; Bane did his work without the dramatic flare that Joker had. Nolan's interepretation of Selena Kyla was one of the few saving points in the film.
I thought it was funny how, at the beginning of the film, Bruce Wayne was a virtual cripple. Yet, by the end of the film, he was able to take on one of Ras Al Ghul's greatest student (even after getting his spine broken). All while, in the second movie, he was geeting his ass handed to him by street hoods!
Bane was the wrong villain to close the trilogy with, IMHO. After the second movie, I saw this fanfic poster:
May that fan hang his head in shame for that obvious gaffe.
As for NPH as Riddler, I hope it never comes to pass in the new crop of Bat-films in the years to come. Not if the plan is to play it like the late Frank Gorshin or Jim Carrey in Bats Forever. If Joker is open for interpetation, (and Bane, for that matter) why not The Riddler?
On a side note: if I were to have a reboot of Batman, I'd pitch up a version of the Gotham By Gaslight graphic novels.
My bad on the Freeman misspelling (I didn't notice it until you pointed it out). Darren did express his didsapproval of NPH in the role. I think he'd nail it.
Curious if any who watched this and didn't enjoy it have had a second view and changed their minds? It's certainly a movie that rewards you for subsequent views.
Also have to recommend the soundtrack - excellent, and the titles of the tracks perfectly describe the requisite moments in the film.
Have to say that the Bruce climbing out of the prison (the crucial moment in the film) is the most impressive thing I've seen in a long while in any movie. Beautiful filmmaking, wonderful scene.
Curious if any who watched this and didn't enjoy it have had a second view and changed their minds? It's certainly a movie that rewards you for subsequent views.
Also have to recommend the soundtrack - excellent, and the titles of the tracks perfectly describe the requisite moments in the film.
Have to say that the Bruce climbing out of the prison (the crucial moment in the film) is the most impressive thing I've seen in a long while in any movie. Beautiful filmmaking, wonderful scene.
I've tried to watch the film now... twice. And I never make it through it without dozing off. Everything feels so rushed and convoluted. Over stuffed with ham-fisted symbolism when all I want is a clear story.
Why did we spend so much time with those two corporate weenies that hired Bane? Did we really need them to be in that much of the film?
This most accurately sums up my feelings on the film...
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I've tried to watch the film now... twice. And I never make it through it without dozing off. Everything feels so rushed and convoluted. Over stuffed with ham-fisted symbolism when all I want is a clear story.
Why did we spend so much time with those two corporate weenies that hired Bane? Did we really need them to be in that much of the film?
This most accurately sums up my feelings on the film...
Horses for courses!
Can't say I agree with the idea of ham-fisted symbolism, but that's the beauty of film. One man sees nuance, another man sees ham-fistedness.
I've tried to watch the film now... twice. And I never make it through it without dozing off. Everything feels so rushed and convoluted. Over stuffed with ham-fisted symbolism when all I want is a clear story.
Why did we spend so much time with those two corporate weenies that hired Bane? Did we really need them to be in that much of the film?
i nearly choked to death... you fell asleep during TDKR?? twice ? seriously? do you have a pulse? do you feel emotion? how do you fall alseep during that movie?
smh
Did you find the Exocist to be a Comedy and The Fly to be Romantic?
lol
thats probably one of my favorite movies of the last 5 years.... by far the best movie this year. and its not even close
do you feel emotion? how do you fall alseep during that movie?
Personally, I've never seen any emotion in a Nolan film (I've seen all of them). There's nothing wrong with that, really. I'm just surprised to see it mentioned. To me the films are utterly bereft of that kind of stimulation, or the attempt at it. To me, Nolan makes films about huge ideas -- and bless him for it -- in which the pesky problem of human emotion is abstracted and manipulated at the intellectual level.
It's been a while since I saw the film now but if I were to use one word to sum it up it would be... Underwhelming.
Maybe it was simply the fact that every review I saw or heard was always so positive it was almost impossible to live up to the expectations I had. But saying that it feels good to see on here there are others it didn't work for and I'm not just broken.
One of the reasons I didn't enjoy it so much was Bane. I'm a big fan of Tom Hardy and I just felt like he was wasted. It may as well of been any guy with some muscles playing the role. Because I couldn't see his face he just didn't feel very menacing, not to mention the stupid voice he has. He also seemed to have been reading the 'Bond villain guide' that states instead of killing your enemy just put him in a situation he can get out of eventually to come back and inevitably defeat you.
In fairness he did have one moment where I did like him, if I remember correctly, in the plane he's escaping from he tells one of his minions to stay on board while it crashes (can't remember why), but the minion has absolutely no problem with it. That to me was the sign of a great leader that a guy was willing to die for him no questions asked. That was at the beginning too so I did want to love Bane, in the end I just didn't.
Alfred is a right whiny little girl through the whole movie too.
As Andrew suggested above I might have to see it again, sometimes a second viewing can change my opinion, my problem now is I just don't really want to see it again.
Color me weird, but I think the Fly is mainly a love story..and yeah, it's romantic. Up until the baby maggot dream sequence, anyway The ending when Geena Davis finally deals with Brundlefly makes me cry. She still loves him. That's why it works on a higher level than most 'body-melt' movies. It's a classic love story for me.
I saw TDKR on blue ray just before Xmas. I thought it was really entertaining piece of mainstream movie making. I will rewatch it, which I can't say about the recent barrage of Marvel movies. I thought Hathaway was outstanding. I wasn't bored once, and considering the nearly 3 hour duration, that's rare for me. Bane did sound weird, though. I did giggle at his expressions a few times.
Personally, I've never seen any emotion in a Nolan film (I've seen all of them). There's nothing wrong with that, really. I'm just surprised to see it mentioned. To me the films are utterly bereft of that kind of stimulation, or the attempt at it. To me, Nolan makes films about huge ideas -- and bless him for it -- in which the pesky problem of human emotion is abstracted and manipulated at the intellectual level.
if you werent moved by Michael Cain's performance.. or Batman/Bruce Waynes overall arch in the film.... i really dont know what to tell you.
Chris Nolan has been one of if not the best and original Directors/film makers of the last decade...memento/inception
to see this board responding negatively to his movies is astounding... and makes me wonder.
Color me weird, but I think the Fly is mainly a love story..and yeah, it's romantic. Up until the baby maggot dream sequence, anyway The ending when Geena Davis finally deals with Brundlefly makes me cry. She still loves him. That's why it works on a higher level than most 'body-melt' movies. It's a classic love story for me.
Thank you, sir, for beating me to the punch. The Fly is my favorite movie and it is absolutely a love story, among many other things, and one of the best there is at that. It's not understated either. Despite how grim the film is at large, the romantic angle is extremely palpable and touching right 'til the very end.
Keeping on topic, I have to say TDKR was pretty meh. The plotholes and logistical issues are there in spades and the fact that Christopher Nolan has proven himself the meticulous filmmaker he is should warrant the film being accountable for all of them, especially those in the final act. But at the end of the day, it's Batman and should be weighed first and foremost as entertainment. That said, I felt like where it was meant to be exciting, powerful, or poignant, it was weak and the moments where I was the most invested ended up being the moments I was the most let down. Throw a garbage villain on top of that and you've got a pretty lackluster film whose inadequacies are compounded by the existence of the two preceding films and twice over for the fact that it was the finale of the series and should've been out of the ballpark.
I think examining the film in it's own right, it was extremely ambitious in the best way and despite flying too close to the sun, it's a more or less successful genre work. Unfortunately, it being part of a trilogy that begs to be looked at collectively really, really hurts.
Couple of quotes from Nolan about The Dark Knught Rises:
"We tried with all three [Batman] films, but in the most extreme way with "The Dark Knight Rises," what I call this sort of snowballing approach to action and events. We experimented with this in "The Dark Knight," where the action is not based on clean and clear set pieces the way "Batman Begins" was, but we pushed it much further in this film. The scope and scale of the action is built from smaller pieces that snowball together so you're cross-cutting, which I love doing, and trying to find a rhythm in conjunction with the music and the sound effects, so you're building and building tension continuously over a long sustained part of the film, and not releasing that until the very last frame. It's a risky strategy because you risk exhausting your audience, but to me it's the most invigorating way of approaching the action film. It's an approach I applied with "Inception" as well, to have parallel strands of tension rising and rising and then coming together. In "The Dark Knight Rises," from the moment the music and sound drop and the little boy starts singing "The Star-Spangled Banner," it's kind of like the gloves are coming off. I've been amazed and delighted how people have accepted the extremity of where things go."
"For me, "The Dark Knight Rises" is specifically and definitely the end of the Batman story as I wanted to tell it, and the open-ended nature of the film is simply a very important thematic idea that we wanted to get into the movie, which is that Batman is a symbol. He can be anybody, and that was very important to us. Not every Batman fan will necessarily agree with that interpretation of the philosophy of the character, but for me it all comes back to the scene between Bruce Wayne and Alfred in the private jet in "Batman Begins," where the only way that I could find to make a credible characterization of a guy transforming himself into Batman is if it was as a necessary symbol, and he saw himself as a catalyst for change and therefore it was a temporary process, maybe a five-year plan that would be enforced for symbolically encouraging the good of Gotham to take back their city. To me, for that mission to succeed, it has to end, so this is the ending for me, and as I say, the open-ended elements are all to do with the thematic idea that Batman was not important as a man, he's more than that. He's a symbol, and the symbol lives on."
The first quote is especially pertinent. I urge you to give this film a second viewing if you haven't already.
It's funny. When I saw it for the first time, I couldn't figure out what those plot hioles were. When folks pointed them out to me, I thought, okay, that does seem a bit odd. In recent weeks however, I have rewatched it, and each time I do, I find the "plot holes" are less...and less...
I chalk it all up to four major things.
1 - It's a great film, but not on same plateau as the previous film.
2 - The nitpickers were distracted/didn't pay attention
3 - Real time and movie time are two different things. For example, Bane's attack on Gotham's stock exchange in "real time" was at least a few hours while in "movie time" was a few minutes. During the holdup, it rained outside and the sun was going down.
4 - There is/was no need to show scenes/possible scenes which repeated steps from the previous two films. Thus, when Wayne escapes the Pit, with no income...do we really need to see the methods he used in 'Batman Begins' where he traveled across the globe studying the criminal underworld? Not to merntion his training in the LoS? Worst case he called Alfred for help.
It's funny. When I saw it for the first time, I couldn't figure out what those plot hioles were. When folks pointed them out to me, I thought, okay, that does seem a bit odd. In recent weeks however, I have rewatched it, and each time I do, I find the "plot holes" are less...and less...
I chalk it all up to four major things.
1 - It's a great film, but not on same plateau as the previous film.
2 - The nitpickers were distracted/didn't pay attention
3 - Real time and movie time are two different things. For example, Bane's attack on Gotham's stock exchange in "real time" was at least a few hours while in "movie time" was a few minutes. During the holdup, it rained outside and the sun was going down.
4 - There is/was no need to show scenes/possible scenes which repeated steps from the previous two films. Thus, when Wayne escapes the Pit, with no income...do we really need to see the methods he used in 'Batman Begins' where he traveled across the globe studying the criminal underworld? Not to merntion his training in the LoS? Worst case he called Alfred for help.
Ok fine, DJS. I'll give it another chance. But if I don't like it. It's your fault.
Regards, E.D.
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It's funny. When I saw it for the first time, I couldn't figure out what those plot hioles were. When folks pointed them out to me, I thought, okay, that does seem a bit odd. In recent weeks however, I have rewatched it, and each time I do, I find the "plot holes" are less...and less...
I chalk it all up to four major things.
1 - It's a great film, but not on same plateau as the previous film.
2 - The nitpickers were distracted/didn't pay attention
3 - Real time and movie time are two different things. For example, Bane's attack on Gotham's stock exchange in "real time" was at least a few hours while in "movie time" was a few minutes. During the holdup, it rained outside and the sun was going down.
4 - There is/was no need to show scenes/possible scenes which repeated steps from the previous two films. Thus, when Wayne escapes the Pit, with no income...do we really need to see the methods he used in 'Batman Begins' where he traveled across the globe studying the criminal underworld? Not to merntion his training in the LoS? Worst case he called Alfred for help.
Not sure I agree with point 3, but agree with gist. This film is doing incredibly well to not be considered a complete disaster after Dark Knight. I loved Ledger, but Joker was not his best performance - will always be his Ennis Del Mar.
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) are not the target demograph. A 40's/50's style reboot would be great, but I don't think it would have borad enough appeal to get the core audience on seats. Burton's attempt was great, but it was smothered in cheese, just killed it. No grit.
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