One of the things that really got to me was at one point during the script the couple was trying to be sexy with one another.  I don't know about you, but if I were in this situation the last thing on my mind would be sex (and that says a lot).

I also agree that we really needed to know why she says no to him in the first place.  It almost seems like he expects that he has explained it obliquely.  But he hasn't.  

Quoted from mcornetto One of the things that really got to me was at one point during the script the couple was trying to be sexy with one another.  I don't know about you, but if I were in this situation the last thing on my mind would be sex (and that says a lot).

Actually, I can say this has happened to me on more than one occasion. There is a name for it, "break-up fuck" or something? That scene actually never felt that odd to me, or at least it would not if we had a bit more detail about them and what happened. I guess it did come across as a bit cold and clinical but having an imagination helps, we can sort of fill in the blanks with emotional experiences of out own. If that makes any sense? Still not good as the movie should be providing us with some emotion rather than relying on us to imagine or remember those feelings for ourselves.

But in order to believe in these characters we really should have had some knowledge of what happened. If this were my script I would have started at the wedding. Surely they knew people there? had friends there? What a great place for some exposition and a way to clear up some of those strange decisions that were made later on.

She is in the bathroom with a girlfriend, discussing James and how she is not sure anymore, maybe she has feelings for someone else, maybe she is scared etc.. etc..

* Tick one for having a reason.

Her friend offers to take her back to her place and stay there for a couple of days. She says no, she can't, she needs to go back to Jame's parents house because.... I don't know, maybe he is epileptic and she does not want to leave him alone, maybe her car is parked there? Can't be hard to think of something.

* Another tick for getting over the strange reason why she is there at all.

At the same time James is talking to his friend, they suggest he goes and parties with them. No he needs to take her back, he does't want to to just dump her, he wants to show her he can handle this etc..

etc... etc...

Not difficult is it?

Quoted from Murphy Actually, I can say this has happened to me on more than one occasion. There is a name for it, "break-up fuck" or something? That scene actually never felt that odd to me, or at least it would not if we had a bit more detail about them and what happened.

I don't think a "break-up fuck" is that unusual but it is when you are being terrorized by a bunch of masked "whatever they are".

The "sex scene" came before they were terrorized.

As for James and Kristen's characters, I actually don't agree that we needed anything more than we got.  This isn't a movie that needs to go into much detail or background...I think that's why most of these scenes didn't make the final cut of the film.  I personally didn't care or even think about why she turned him down, as it didn't have anything to do with the plot and action.

I do agree that neither was very interesting though.  Was I routing for them?  Of course I was.  Do characters need to be well developed in a horror flick?  I don't really think so.  Should they be more developed than what we get here?  Probably, but I think that's the least of the problems with the script.

It's already painfully slow and dull until the first knock at the door.  And because of the tiny cast, extremely limited scene settings, and very simple premise, I think that Bertino was simply going for nothing more than tension and terror, which works so much better on screen than on the written page.

Much of what worked in the film was creepy BG shots of the masked man lurking in the shadows, unknown to Kristen (as someone said earlier).

This just isn't a genre where backstory or character arc really comes into play.  I know alot of you shoot these types of projects down because of that, but I definitely don't.  It is what it is, and we should understand that and discuss what does work and what doesn't work, within what Bertino was trying to accomplish.

What Brian's done is painted these characters in a kind of empty shell.

This is amazing to me.

Look:

KRISTEN MCKAY WAS BORN ON AUGUST 26TH,
1977.

JAMES HOTOPP WAS BORN ON OCTOBER 12TH,
1975.

No mention of when they died. No mention of anything unique to them.

This same thing appears at the end of the script. No mention of the
date of their death.

All they appear on the page is as if they're empty vessels.

The situation is creating a whole atmosphere around them.

The writing's simplicity enhances the emptiness of the characters.

JAMES
You can smoke if you want.

KRISTEN
Your dad won’t get mad?

JAMES
I don’t care. He won’t after this.

**Why would James say that? *After this.*

Note that the name of Tamara is a character in an American horror film entitled: Tamara

Does the girl in that film who was treated shabbily by her peers have anything
to do with Kristen's "prettiness" as being a reason that she was stalked out
this way? Yes, she's pretty, but also pretty empty and shallow. She doesn't
want to say yes to James perhaps because she still feels there are greener
pastures out there?

A good person looks at the soul; not at the looks. Kristen does care a lot
about her looks. That's why she wants to wear the dress. Does she really
think she's pretty though? She calls herself a fatty.

In this script it feels like these characters are empty on purpose.

Their characters aren't inside of them. Their characters are inside of their circumstances.

**

When James says,

JAMES
No it doesn’t. Look at me. Not
tonight. Look at me. Don’t think
about why, okay. They’re bad. If
they come through this door again,
all I will be thinking about is how
to get them the fuck out.

Then he says:

They’re not like you.

Why would he say that? They're bad people. Is she a sinner? Sometimes?

Regarding the hotel flashbacks:

I had wondered about these myself and to me I was thinking that
it reinforced on the empty and borrowed theme.

My guess is that these two individuals are in the kind of relationship
where there exists a kind of emptiness. There may be love. A "kind" of
love, but it's a love/hate relationship perhaps. Maybe more based on
sex than anything else. Why else would they have so little to talk
about? Nothing of any substance.

Here:

INT. HOTEL HALLWAY - LATE AFTERNOON

James walks back and forth between two rooms. His hands are
full of fast-food bags and drinks. He stops himself from
knocking on one of the doors. Unsure, he pauses, then
presses his ear against the door. He backs away, surveying
the two choices again.
Then, he knocks on both. Kristen opens the door.

*After that, Kristen calls him a retard when he explains
he forgot which room.

Regarding the proposal:

KRISTEN
Why did you have to wait? I
wanted...I needed you to ask me.

JAMES
You should have told me.

KRISTEN
James?

JAMES
I wish you would have told me.

KRISTEN
I’m lying.

Kristen has a lot to say here
it seems:

Page 49

KRISTEN
That day when my mom...when she
died. My dad called, remember. It
was a Saturday. We were going to
lunch. He called and I went into
the bedroom and he told me. I
remember falling to my knees and
the way the weight felt against my
bare skin. It burned. I was
kneeling on the ground holding the
phone in my right hand and looking
at my knees.


KRISTEN (cont’d)
My dad was talking, telling me
about a plane ticket. I can
remember the sound of his voice,
but not the words. You know? Just
his voice. I just stared down at my
knee. You came in after a few more
seconds and when you put your arms
around me it felt good.
But I didn’t need it the way I
thought I would. I didn’t call for
you. The way I thought should.

*A lot of words, but again: emptiness. It seems actually loveless.

She recognized she didn't feel she needed
comforting.

The question of James' fear of guns:

Kristen says:

KRISTEN
Baby...

JAMES
Don’t call me that!

He may have been called a baby by either his father or kids when he was young.

Who knows why he was afraid of guns. There isn't necessarily a reason for
everything. Why are some people obsessive compulsive? Why are some people lazy?

With this:

JAMES
Fuck this.

JAMES
Fuck you!

JAMES
Just shut up.

His tone is cruel.

This is showing his character, but again, only through the circumstances.

At the hotel:

KRISTEN
Come back to bed.

JAMES
I will. Just a second.

James gazes at the light growing brighter on the horizon.

JAMES
Are you happy?

KRISTEN
Sometimes.

JAMES
That’s not enough.

KRISTEN
I don’t think I can try any harder.

JAMES
I’ll help you.

KRISTEN
You can’t.

JAMES
I will.

KRISTEN
You can’t.

*James can't make Kristen happy. It has to come
from herself.

But maybe Kristen doesn't want to be helped. She
didn't want it from James; she didn't even really
want it from the guy on the radio.

When Strawberry says,

STRAWBERRY (O.S.) (cont’d)
He told me. You said no.

She's either lying, but if she's not... ???

When James is dying and Kristen finally says,

KRISTEN
I need you now. James. I need you.

*You know what rings for me at this point?

Don't it always seem to go, you don't know what you've got
'till it's gone. They paved paradise and put up a parking lot.

Again, maybe it's just me, but I see deliberate bareness in this script.

It's like they're trying to rationalize their relationship- what to do, but
it seems they have some kind of foreknowledge that this is it- the end
of the line. Even before they hear a single knock or see a single stranger.

The characters seem to be built around the context from the very beginning.
Even if it's built as a mystery of what that context is. It's our job to find out.

The characters do recognize their love in the end, but we're still left to
wonder about Kristen.

Sandra

I agree with most of what you said here Jeff except for the background part. Do we need them in horror flicks? No, not that much, but in this case the script started out in such a way that we wanted to know more, wanted to know what had happened and who they are. I thought the script started out good for that reason, but left me feeling disappointed in the end.

Quoted from Dreamscale It is what it is, and we should understand that and discuss what does work and what doesn't work, within what Bertino was trying to accomplish.

Haha, why does that make me chuckle? never mind, thinking about a previous script club, you sound like me now and I remember getting shot down for that.

It is plainly obvious that Bertino very successfully accomplished everything he wanted with this script. He wanted to write a film in a genre where character and strong plot is not important and that is exactly what we have here. As character and plot are two of the most important element of any screenplay then not an awful lot more for us to talk about. Ironically it is one of the worst pro scripts I have ever read and yet one of the best pieces of work I have seen from a first time writer. The mind boggles.

Not to mention first time director...

Pia, you were probably looking for alot more here, and I totally understand that.  It sounds like you enjoyed the slow parts here, the slow build...you wanted to know the backstory so these characters would have a real story.

It's obvious that bertino didn't want that.  This draft does actually have alot more backstory than the final cut had, and for me, I'm glad they were cut out, as they weren't necessary, and really didn't have anything to do with the plotline, which was quite simply, a group of lunatics terrorize a couple in their cottage, and then kill them.

That's really all this was about.

I actually kind of agree with Giles when he suggeted an opening at the wedding with some backstory.  If I remember correctly, the filmed version does have some of that, but we don't get much.  We do meet James' friend though, who shows up at the house, only to die, replacing the old man walking teh streets thing, which was just so obvious, as we've already said.

Quoted from Dreamscale This just isn't a genre where backstory or character arc really comes into play.  I know alot of you shoot these types of projects down because of that, but I definitely don't.  It is what it is, and we should understand that and discuss what does work and what doesn't work, within what Bertino was trying to accomplish.

As I said in my last post, I think that Bertino created the emptiness and lack in the characters on purpose. Their dialogue is conspicuously void.

I think he accomplished what he set out to do. I don't know however whether the things I see and feel from it was intentional, or if it was completely his subconscious that was creating the loveless characters, devoid of life context.

It didn't matter it seemed. They were born. That's all that mattered. It was like they had no life prior.

Conspicuously absent lives, knowledge... even their deaths were absent.

Do you think that Brian was too stupid to see this? I don't.

Sandra

I don't think Bertino is in any way stupid, but I just feel he concentrated on tension and terror, over character development and the like.

Quoted from Dreamscale I don't think Bertino is in any way stupid, but I just feel he concentrated on tension and terror, over character development and the like.

Absolutely. I agree. He made these characters as empty vessels ruled by their circumstances. They're in a relationship that is driven sexually, and it shows by the scene, but something holds Kristen back from wanting to "need" James.

It seems to me like she does/doesn't at the same time.

She let's him make her a fire, go get her cigarettes, ... He wants her to need him. He wants to be the giver. It shows in all of his actions even in helping to unzip her dress and smoking together with her.

Sandra

The thing with the missing character points to me is that to build a character doesn't take much. All you have to do is make them human which can be done by giving them a life outside the plot that could relate to both the plot and to us. We have to know that they had a life before the movie started and would have had a life when it ended. How much would that have added to the length? Almost nothing. Probably a minute with stuff peppered here and there throughout that would have satisfied all of my questions and build them to fuller people than we got.

You don't need new scenes to build a character. You just need some kind of substance in the scenes you already have. Choose their words and actions carefully. Make them real. This is almost always grossly overlooked. It takes less than one thinks to create a rounded character. Or rather, it takes work on a backstory that you never see, but almost no time on screen if you know them well enough because all that work will come through.

Agreed George...and everyone else...but doesn't it change your mindset just a tad, knowing what a complete success this script turned into?  Like, maybe that stuff that you always thought was so important, isn't afterall?  At least in this genre?

Know what I'm saying?

Quoted from George Willson The thing with the missing character points to me is that to build a character doesn't take much. All you have to do is make them human which can be done by giving them a life outside the plot that could relate to both the plot and to us. We have to know that they had a life before the movie started and would have had a life when it ended. How much would that have added to the length? Almost nothing. Probably a minute with stuff peppered here and there throughout that would have satisfied all of my questions and build them to fuller people than we got. You don't need new scenes to build a character. You just need some kind of substance in the scenes you already have. Choose their words and actions carefully. Make them real. This is almost always grossly overlooked. It takes less than one thinks to create a rounded character. Or rather, it takes work on a backstory that you never see, but almost no time on screen if you know them well enough because all that work will come through.

I know George, I understand exactly what you and everyone is saying, but I don't think people are "getting it".

Brian, (probably unconsciously or as his little secret) created characters WITHOUT CHARACTER.

They live in a void. They feel empty. They are empty.

It's art. It's not life. It's a commentary on life's emptiness. The void that people experience despite every fulfillment--

You've got your ice cream.

You've got your champagne.

You've got your romance.

You've got your good sex.

You've got your cigarettes.

You've got the prettiness.

BUT STILL YOU'VE GOT NOTHING!!! (Unless... )

That's the point. The hollowness in this is the point.

Sandra