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Script Club VIII: The Strangers (currently 8755 views)
Dreamscale
Posted: January 28th, 2009, 10:41pm
Guest User
It is a hollow film, and hollow characters, but I don' think that Bertino consciously did that. It's just what it is, and in this genre, that's more than acceptable.
Agreed George...and everyone else...but doesn't it change your mindset just a tad, knowing what a complete success this script turned into? Like, maybe that stuff that you always thought was so important, isn't afterall? At least in this genre?
Know what I'm saying?
I know what you're saying, but I think the people you're directing it at won't. It's always going to be two sides of the fence on that one.
As far as the characters, we learn a little about them. Obviously, there's tension due to the refused proposal, yet they still love each other. They say it, and they express it physically (well, until the knock on the door).
Do we learn all we'd care to know about them and why things are the way they are. Not really. But, has anyone given any thought to what we know about the characters and the way the script ended? I mean, could we not have been allowed to identify with the characters so that when what ultimately happens, happens, it's not so much of a downer?
I know it seems silly, but sometimes a writer will intend to kill off a certain character, but then avoid because they like them too much. Could be a similar scenario here, and he avoided the aggravation by making them hollow.
It is a hollow film, and hollow characters, but I don' think that Bertino consciously did that. It's just what it is, and in this genre, that's more than acceptable.
We just don't know if it was conscious or not on his part.
I completely agree. It is what it is. That's what fascinates me so much.
If it weren't for you and "The Rented Shoes", I wouldn't have went back and read the script over another two times!!!!
Maybe I should throw up my other notes, and see what you guys say to that? There were so many things that just weren't "right" with this draft. No way did this thing get him the Nicholls nod. No way...
You want to see them? The rented shoes was just 1 of many things that I found amazingly not right...
Maybe I should throw up my other notes, and see what you guys say to that? There were so many things that just weren't "right" with this draft. No way did this thing get him the Nicholls nod. No way...
You want to see them? The rented shoes was just 1 of many things that I found amazingly not right...
Basketball “goal” – strange wording here, and it’s used a 2nd time as well.
2 passages that run 5 lines in the first 2 pages.
Page 2 – lots of stuff in here that was never intended to be “onscreen”.
Weak intro – 4 pages of nothingness. Poor scene headings, 2 unnamed characters, no action.
Page 4 – Is this supposed to be “Super”? Is it a V.O.? Again, terrible scene heading used here – what is “Entry Way” supposed to mean? Weak!
We get absolutely no introduction at all of James and Kristen, other than the Super/V.O.
“They are tired and angry.” – show us, don’t tell us this kind of info.
Page 8 – “grabbing a 12 pack…” – interesting…
Page 9 – “He can hear the clinking of the wind chimes…” – poorly written
A 6 line passage!!!!
2 more passages with passive verbiage.
Page 12 – “…rented shoes…” – like how do we know they’re rented?
“…shiny rented shoes…” – again? C’mon!
Page 13 – Another 5 liner!!!!
Shouldn’t “knock” be all capped, as it’s a sound that we definitely want to draw attention to?
Page 21 – a 7 line passage!!!! WTF???
Lots of examples of scenes opening up, repeating the exact scene heading.
Page 26 – first time we’ve seen the scene heading, “INT. House”
Page 27 – “WOMEN” used as a character name – should be “WOMAN”
6 line passage!!!
Page 34
Another 6 line passage that ends with …”…is swinging in the wind.” Unreal!
Page 38
“James reaches the driver’s side and Kristen the passenger.” – poorly written sentence
Page 40, 41 – Poorly written here…all of it…weak dialogue, lots of telling, not showing, etc. Sentences on their own that should be combined with a comma…just weak all around.
Page 44 – Flashback scene – 3 pages of almost nothing going on…way too detailed, dull, and uneventful.
Page 47-50 – 3 more pages of basically nothing but boring, unnecessary dialogue.
Page 54 – those damned “rented shoes” again…ARGH!!!!
This stuff about the gun makes no sense – first, James said his Dad definitely did not have a gun. Then, he says, maybe he does. Then, he finds the gun, and says, “It’s still here. He was going to sell it.” This is all poorly done,, and makes no sense.
Page 57 – axe is spelled 2 ways…”axe” and ax”. Pick one, and stay with it!
Page 69-74 – Another 5 page flashback that doesn’t go anywhere and doesn’t do anything, IMO.
Page 77-81 – 4 pages of meaningless banter with the radio that goes nowhere. Why would she turn it off and not at least tell the guy what state she was in, where she was earlier, etc. Stupid and senseless!!!
Page 84 – “EXT. HOUSE” – This is not an EXT. shot, as Kristen is pushing the curtain open – she’s inside!
Page 97 – return of those damned “rental shoes”!!!!
Ending – lots and lots of identical passages from the beginning, which is totally not necessary. We get the V.O. again from the Detective that we never see or meet, so how do we know he’s a Detective and who is he talking to/with?
Basketball “goal” – strange wording here, and it’s used a 2nd time as well.
I agree, but just because it seems odd to us, it doesn't mean it doesn't belong.
Quoted from Dreamscale
2 passages that run 5 lines in the first 2 pages.
Agreed again. Chunky text. But how much do the rules mean to you? Are you willing to break them if you bloody well feel? Does it make you a sinner? Maybe.
Quoted from Dreamscale
Page 2 – lots of stuff in here that was never intended to be “onscreen”.
When a book gets adapted, there is plenty that never goes on screen. In scripts too, there are things that don't go on the screen but mean something to the author in order to get some things across. Even if it means telling by virtue of its directness. (Telling).
In the hands of a skilled writer, it can be most effective. Of course if someone's just "trying" to break the rules for the sake of breaking the rules, that's another story.
[/quote]
Quoted from Dreamscale
Weak intro – 4 pages of nothingness. Poor scene headings, 2 unnamed characters, no action.
The nothingness you describe feels like a lot to me.
I've already explained that in previous posts.
I'm skipping down in your post because it's getting late, but I'll look at your other good points tomorrow. And I do think they're good-- don't get me wrong. It's just that I feel reason in it and not mistakes. There are some actual mistakes I know, but a lot of the points you are making I feel are good things. I'm thinking from a completely different angle I know.
Here:
Quoted from Dreamscale
Ending – lots and lots of identical passages from the beginning, which is totally not necessary. We get the V.O. again from the Detective that we never see or meet, so how do we know he’s a Detective and who is he talking to/with?
Again Jeff, I think you're missing the point on this.
The Detective is just a device. You and I know that. We are subtly brought into this "flashback" because that's what it is... and you know what? The first thing I had thought is:
Who is the one that's telling this story? Not the characters-- they're dead.
We are in complete omniscient. I'm going to harp back on the fact that "The car is running". It's running in the beginning and it's running in the end even though James set it on fire.
Also, that these people's deaths are NOT mentioned. Only their births. TWICE.
The repeat of the beginning in the end is entirely right and perfect for this story.
The repeat of the beginning in the end is entirely right and perfect for this story.
The beginning is the ending.
Sandra
Your comments here are giving me a Funny Games vibe.
Does Bertino include the aftermath of the attacks first just to prove a point about the American audience? Obviously, something horrible has happened to the people in this house, and we as an audience stick around anyway to find out what.
Or does he drag on all of this psychological torture and mind play on purpose just to prove how prosaic the experience really is? After all, nothing happens to these characters for quite some time, but their paranoia over the presence of strangers instantly brings out their survival instincts without calling for it.
It seems to me that the strangers only attacked because that's what the protagonists expected of them. Kristen picked up a knife long before the strangers ever did.
Your comments here are giving me a Funny Games vibe.
Does Bertino include the aftermath of the attacks first just to prove a point about the American audience? Obviously, something horrible has happened to the people in this house, and we as an audience stick around anyway to find out what.
Or does he drag on all of this psychological torture and mind play on purpose just to prove how prosaic the experience really is? After all, nothing happens to these characters for quite some time, but their paranoia over the presence of strangers instantly brings out their survival instincts without calling for it.
It seems to me that the strangers only attacked because that's what the protagonists expected of them. Kristen picked up a knife long before the strangers ever did.
I think you might really have something here and I think I've been having a hard time articulating it.
I'm going to ramble for a moment-- well, more than a moment because I just finished watching it on film. Oh God!!!!! Oh God!!! Oh God!!!! Oh God!!!!
All I can think of saying first is thanks everyone for giving your insight on the script. No matter how much we disagree!!! It's helped me to learn that:
If you are serious about what you want to intend in your work, then write it as a short story or a novel first. Then Hollywood can't mess with it.
In this case, it was Bertino's decision to mess up his work, but that's ok. You've got to give if you're working to get your work filmed.
I should add, that cinematically, some parts were definitely improved upon. But having said that--
The story wasn't.
The story was ruined.
There was the good replacement of Mike with the old man, and even scenes with them pushing the piano against the door seemed much more realistic than in the script, but all of the depth that I saw despite the scripts barren character scape went missing.
This is not the film I read.
If I were working with a talented director, it's not even the same movie at all that I'd create.
These questions plague me:
What happened to Strawberry Shortcake????
If you look up a Halloween Costume for this character or happened to have kids in the time that this was popular, you'll know she's not here in the film.
Where is the happy face mask???
Again, not here.
Where is The Pin-Up Girl?
Ditto.
Why is it 4:00 o'clock and not almost 3:00 in the morning?
Guess they weren't on Mountain Time in the Spring or something like that.
How come Kristen was Jordon in the beginning???
Why wasn't she wine stained???
She looked very glamorous.
And why wasn't James' hand shown as being injured?
What happened to the hotel scenes?
What happened to the contradictory dialougue that I displayed in my posts???
I guess they just didn't want to deal with it.
Who the Hell needs literary crap? Just give'm what they want...
Yes, I think there was some literary crap in Brian's work.
Too bad it wasn't in the film.
The masked people????
Hah!!!
Pleeeeeeeaaaaaaaaaaaase!!!!!
Give me Strawberry Shortcake any day. These masked people were not the interesting masked individuals I saw in the script.
And regarding character:
James neve gave Kristen the shit she deserved in the movie... Unless that was when I was pouring myself a drink.
**
I had the feeling I'd say this:
The script was better than the movie.
But the movie... if you'd seen it first and you were young (I don't know how young that is but young enough not to ask all the questions we're asking) then I think you'd enjoy it.
It definitely is a thriller more than a horror.
If I were to work on it and put in my 2 cents, I'd certainly work in that "artsy element" that is probably more fringe than anything.
The relationship and the characters would be portrayed, (in all their emptiness) to the hilt. But at least that would be something. A nothing that is something.
My criticisms don't lie with the film itself. Here we go again:
It is what it is.
But:
My criticisms lie with the discrepancies between the script and the movie.
They are completely different to me and it's sad because I felt it was more than what we wound up seeing in the film. That's always the way though.
Ah, but Sandra, the time will come when we will discuss the script's transition to the movie and now is not the time yet. We need to get into the dialogue portion of our discussion. Dialogue is always a weak point of mine, so I can't exactly throw stones here. The weak lines have been touched on here and there throughout the discussion, but what are some specific thoughts on how the dialogue ran in the script?
There was very little dialogue, first of all. And secondly, what dialogue there was, didn't say much, and was rather weak.
This wasn't a script or movie that required heavy or impressive dialogue though. It's power and intensity came from its silence, and that's what really made it work overall.
There was very little dialogue, first of all. And secondly, what dialogue there was, didn't say much, and was rather weak.
This wasn't a script or movie that required heavy or impressive dialogue though. It's power and intensity came from its silence, and that's what really made it work overall.
I agree with this. The power of "not" saying something means a lot more here.
It's a story about the interior world as much as it is the exterior. The sparse and meaningless dialogue has meaning.
I agree that this script does not need a lot of dialogue. However the dialogue that is there needs to be better than this. I thought it was atrocious. (I think that's the word I mean)
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Script Club VIII: The Strangers
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