Like I said earlier, I thought the script started out pretty good, leaving us wondering what on earth has happened before. But it soon loses that because the characters are extremely stupid.

I agree with what you are saying GM except for when I watched the move it felt a lot more tense. I felt no tension or thrills in the script. So I agree with your points there GM, but I agree with Jeff on the movie.

Although I have to agree with what Giles has said, I don't think it's fair to lay things out like that and point out all the negatives, and only the negatives.  In most movies, we have to suspend our disbelief to allow the movie to work, in the ways that it can.

Compare this to most mainstream horror, and you'll see that it is much better...it makes more sense, it's done better, and it works better.

Quoted from Dreamscale Giles, I'm a horror buff for sure, in that I see and have seen just about literally everything that has come out, and although this is not unique, it is different, and comes across as different. It is a very high level of tension, and once it gets going, it never lets up.  The different thing is that basically, no one dies until the very end, and there isn't any reveal or twist at the end. Mainstream horror is few and far between recently.  Seriously, look at all the releases in the last 2 years and you'll see what I mean.  This was played as real the entire way through...no wise cracking killers, no over the top set pieces...just good old fashioned stalk and torment, and then kill.  It's rare that the good guys die and the bad guys get away stock free.  It just doesn't happen that way very often.

Ils, Wolf Creek, Eden Lake are just three that spring to mind that rely on the same formula. Although In Wolf Creek at least one of the protags manages to escape. And like I have already said Ils is almost the exact same film.

It certainly has a European influence to it, Europe has taken the place of Japan for influencing US horror at the moment and this style of film is typical of European horror. Looks at films like The Devil's backbone for instance, classed as a horror but is 90 minutes of story with a build up of suspense with the actual horror occurring in the final moments. The Orphanage too is very similar.


* But of course these movies do horror/suspense with far more intelligence that The Strangers, I dislike having to stretch my limits of believability just to watch a movie. As i said, this movie was not made for me, I can live with that and think this writer did a good job of doing all that was expected of him. My problem is the people who watch these movies and do not demand a better class of horror for their money, better writing and more believable plots and stories.

Quoted from Grandma Bear Like I said earlier, I thought the script started out pretty good, leaving us wondering what on earth has happened before. But it soon loses that because the characters are extremely stupid. I agree with what you are saying GM except for when I watched the move it felt a lot more tense. I felt no tension or thrills in the script. So I agree with your points there GM, but I agree with Jeff on the movie.

If I was to say one positive thing it would be the scene where she is in the Kitchen and one of the baddies is just standing in the room watching her. Very good suspense and a little scary, it was actually the highlight of the whole script/movie for me. I found it very creepy when we just saw them lurking in the background - that was well done.

Quoted from Murphy To try and get back on point here are my thoughts on this story and why I think that it just fell apart from word go. It relied on the fact that the two protagonists would make the wrong decisions and the antagonists relied on being lucky that these two unknown victims would not make the right decisions. Let us start with the whole premise... 1 - Out Antag's are indiscriminately knocking on doors trying to find suitable victims. - They pick a couple in their mid-20's both physically fit and presumably not stupid. Are they really the right choice?  Oh, lucky for us they are stupid - that's a relief! 3 - She smokes, she is out of cigarettes, but despite being dumped James is happy to drive somewhere to buy her some smokes - he must be a nice guy - that's a relief! 3 - They allow James to drive off looking for cigarettes. How do they know where is going? How do they know he is not picking up 4 of his football playing, weightlifting friends from the train station? Oh, he has come back alone - that's a relief! Why did they allow him to drive off not knowing where he was going? It made no sense when you think of what happened the next time they tried to drive off. 4 - She has got a mobile phone!! Oh no! Oh, lucky there, it is out of battery - that's a relief! 5 - James has left his phone in the car - that's a relief! 6 - All this time and James forgets he has a gun - that's a relief! 7 - Oh no, we forgot the radio!! But she has no idea where she is, not even which state she is in - that's a relief! 8 - James remembers he has a gun, but does not know how to use it - that's a relief! 9 - They decide, against all the odds, to split up - that's a relief! And it goes on. It seems like no real thought was put into this screenplay at all, just one lucky coincidence after another. And to be honest, I don't think the movie was any better at all. In fact in some ways the script worked better, at least we got some kind of idea of what the antags were doing.

I saw the coincidences too and I commented early about it being silly-willy from a lot of perspectives with the same kind of questions you ask such as:

Why does he finally remember there's a gun? Why did she "absently" cut herself when she was in the bedroom squeezing into the knife? There were a lot of things like that I know.

But according to an interview with Brian that I just researched, he took part of the idea from his childhood growing up out in the middle of nowhere and he said it always scared him because there weren't any people around for miles.

He certainly might not have intended these people to be ghosts, but this script sure does have a certain sensibility about it, (to me that is) and I can appreciate it for its strengths.

The sentence style may be very bland, but there's something about it that resonates with me.

The question came up:

Why me/us? And the answer from The Stranger is simply: Because you were home.

Well isn't that the way? When bad luck comes knocking at your door-- you get an illness, you get in a car accident, you meet up with a killer... What is the reason? Because you were there. With the circumstances and negative energies culminating around you and  there you have it: Because you were home.

There are many incidences where the writer doesn't intend something, and other people see it.

I would love to have Brian Bertino show up on these boards and ask him a few questions myself.

Sandra

Quoted from Murphy To try and get back on point here are my thoughts on this story and why I think that it just fell apart from word go. It relied on the fact that the two protagonists would make the wrong decisions and the antagonists relied on being lucky that these two unknown victims would not make the right decisions. Let us start with the whole premise... 1 - Out Antag's are indiscriminately knocking on doors trying to find suitable victims. - They pick a couple in their mid-20's both physically fit and presumably not stupid. Are they really the right choice?  Oh, lucky for us they are stupid - that's a relief! 3 - She smokes, she is out of cigarettes, but despite being dumped James is happy to drive somewhere to buy her some smokes - he must be a nice guy - that's a relief! 3 - They allow James to drive off looking for cigarettes. How do they know where is going? How do they know he is not picking up 4 of his football playing, weightlifting friends from the train station? Oh, he has come back alone - that's a relief! Why did they allow him to drive off not knowing where he was going? It made no sense when you think of what happened the next time they tried to drive off. 4 - She has got a mobile phone!! Oh no! Oh, lucky there, it is out of battery - that's a relief! 5 - James has left his phone in the car - that's a relief! 6 - All this time and James forgets he has a gun - that's a relief! 7 - Oh no, we forgot the radio!! But she has no idea where she is, not even which state she is in - that's a relief! 8 - James remembers he has a gun, but does not know how to use it - that's a relief! 9 - They decide, against all the odds, to split up - that's a relief! And it goes on. It seems like no real thought was put into this screenplay at all, just one lucky coincidence after another. And to be honest, I don't think the movie was any better at all. In fact in some ways the script worked better, at least we got some kind of idea of what the antags were doing.

I strongly agree with most of this.

However, I will say that most city boys like the one in this script truly don't know how to use a gun, so his urgency when trying to use one was spot-on to me. It was something different that really worked.

Quoted from Murphy 1 - Out Antag's are indiscriminately knocking on doors trying to find suitable victims. - They pick a couple in their mid-20's both physically fit and presumably not stupid. Are they really the right choice?  Oh, lucky for us they are stupid - that's a relief!

I think the antags are expecting the protags to be stupid.  I think that is part of the point of the story.  Everything points at them being pretty dumb.  

Even the stuff with the engagement.  He was stupid enough to think she would say yes - despite something about her mother something something...He even went so far as to put roses in the bathtub...

She was stupid enough to come home with him after saying no...

So we're set up for them to be stupid and any stupid things they do later are in character.

Quoted from mcornetto I think the antags are expecting the protags to be stupid.  I think that is part of the point of the story.  Everything points at them being pretty dumb.   Even the stuff with the engagement.  He was stupid enough to think she would say yes - despite something about her mother something something...He even went so far as to put roses in the bathtub... She was stupid enough to come home with him after saying no... So we're set up for them to be stupid and any stupid things they do later are in character.

Good point. Some of the things are blatantly stupid and that's one of the problems I had in my feelings towards the script. I couldn't understand how "the stupidness" worked. I felt it wasn't just stupid. That's what was coming through to me. That's why I read the script again. Maybe that was stupid. I don't know. But I didn't feel bad about reading it again. I still feel there's more to it than what's on the surface, but after reading Brian's interview, I agree with Jeff that ghosts weren't (at least not on a conscious level) intended. That's something I'm perceiving. Unless Brian is keeping that his little secret.

Sandra

Quoted from Sandra Elstree. Good point. Some of the things are blatantly stupid and that's one of the problems I had in my feelings towards the script. I couldn't understand how "the stupidness" worked. I felt it wasn't just stupid. That's what was coming through to me. That's why I read the script again. Maybe that was stupid. I don't know. But I didn't feel bad about reading it again. I still feel there's more to it than what's on the surface, but after reading Brian's interview, I agree with Jeff that ghosts weren't (at least not on a conscious level) intended. That's something I'm perceiving. Unless Brian is keeping that his little secret. Sandra

Thinking about my last sentence:

I think that with some of my work, I will certainly keep a few secrets so that the audience can discern what they want from it. That's an important thing I think:

Leaving some things open to speculation.

These points on stupidness actually help me in understanding why I feel the way I do about this script. I think it's very much like a painting or any piece of art: The painter, the artist, the author-- they leave an impression of themselves in the work. I don't know what it is and I don't know why some of us connect with something and others don't, but that's special in itself.

For me this is a totally weird moment of gratefulness because I wouldn't be analyzing this script if it wasn't for Simplyscripts. And I do plan on seeing the movie so that's another thing that wouldn't have happened. Whether it comes of to me as good or bad it doesn't matter. I have the opportunity to connect with some writing that means something to me personally. This is an awesome experience. But then again-- I don't take movies for granted.

The amount of movies I've watched in my life are minuscule compared to some of the heavy fans here. I grew up in a day when to watch a movie meant that you darkened the room and ran those old reels-- if you were lucky enough to own one. The other option was "the vacation slide" view. That too involved closing the drapes and making a big production of it.

I never did get the click on a movie in the middle of the afternoon for no good reason thing. Although today-- that's what people do.

So for me, movies are still very much of a novelty. When I go to see one in a theater. IT'S A BIG DEAL!!!!

Studying scripts without having seen the movie first is a marvelous opportunity because they truly are two completely different mediums and yet the script animal
must serve its purpose and be the tunnel into the visual realm.

I went to a hockey game tonight, but tomorrow night I think I'll be watching The Strangers.

Thanks everyone,

Sandra

All right, for the next day, let's move on to the characterization/arc/journey portion.

Did you get a sense of who these people were? Were you able to relate to them or sympathize with them? Were you sad to see them go or grateful that they weren't able to do anything else stupid?

Personally, I would like to have seen something in their character background to explain some of the things that happened. One thing I never fully understood was why she said no. Ok, she's not ready, but why not? Is it just because her mother died? Well, they just came from a wedding which makes the stereotypical single woman a little wedding crazy. I think I missed when mom died, which might have factored in, but even then, losing someone close to you makes you long for someone else in your life, so what was it that really made her say no?

And I would also have liked to know what it was about guns that freaked him out. I grew up in a city. Well, it's more like suburbia, but still, I never had a need to hunt or defend myself throughout my entire life and yet, I don't fear guns. Now, I was in the military and I managed to score expert on the M16 and M60, but still, I've never been in any kind of battle to necessitate me shooting at someone. I also wasn't afraid of the weapon when they issued it to me. If I were threatened, they would find me to be one heck of a shot. Usually, a fear that profound stems from something in the past. We never learn that. An innate fear of guns? I don't think so.

We had a whole lot of hotel flashbacks that told us very little to nothing about these people. I know they were supposed to, but those scenes didn't relate to the STORY. It would have been so easy to plug those flashback with pertinent character building info, but instead, it was more about whatever their relationship is or was supposed to be and didn't really define anything for me. Maybe I missed something.

In the end, after watching the stupidity, I was kinda numb. As a person, I was sad to see them lose, but no part of me was lost when they went. I can relate to the fear of the isolation and situation. Yeah, that would really suck, but that's the atmosphere, not the character.

Now, as for their journey, the experience did serve to bring them somewhat closer together, and I wonder if they might have ended up together in the end had they survived. After all, they nearly had sex despite the fact that she dumped him right before. And although he didn't defend her or show much in the way of bravery, she might have found him more endearing in the end. She did keep the ring on. So as a journey, they showed some growth as a couple which helped to bolster the sadness of the ending, so that's something.

Quoted from Shelton What I mean by that is that the "rented shoes" and "basketball goal" being referenced in the script have nothing to do with whether it worked or not. It didn't have anything to do with the finished film, and frankly, it sucked. Would showcasing those shoes and goal make me think otherwise?  Probably not. Is the story engaging? Not really.  Are people wondering why the reasoning behind Kristen turning James down wasn't revealed?  Yes.  Was it necessary to show that?  No.  It was fairly obvious in my mind. It's things like that we should be discussing.

It was because he wore rented shoes, right?

Quoted from Sham I don't know why this film did so well, and I don't think anyone else does, either. If I had an answer for why bad movies made millions, I could explain to you why Meet the Spartans opened at #1.

Dummy!  If I had an answer for why bad movies made millions, I would have written Meet The Spartans!  

I wish I was better at articulating my thoughts...

I agree George that the journey here was them as a couple. Individually I didn't really understand them at all. I also didn't find either one of them likable at all. Their relationship didn't really work for me at all. They didn't seem particularly close or anything. I think they must have been pretty close before the previous evening and must have known each other so when they are threatened by outsiders it seemed to me they would work and rely on each other pretty well, but their relationship didn't come across as such at all, IMHO of course.

The fumbling with the gun on James' part almost embarrassing.

Don't know if any of this makes sense... it did to me..  

Possibly she woke up and realized she could never love a man who wears rented shoes?

Personally I never connected with either of them at all, they were both easy to dislike, both rather shallow and lacking personality, and yes, no back story at all, which the hardest thing to understand seen as we had so many flashbacks and had plenty of time to build character.

Who were they? What did they do? Where are they from?

Nothing. To enjoy a movie I need to believe in the characters, these guys I couldn't and it is as simple as that.

.......

On a related note there is an excellent article in the LA Times about Horror movies and what the studio's are looking for at the moment. Well worth a read....

http://www.latimes.com/entertainment/news/movies/la-ca-horror25-2009jan25,0,4347465,full.story

Good one GM.

I thought Kristen seemed extremely clingy and it annoyed me that she kept apologizing.

Nowhere in this script did I read them saying anything intelligent. Only lots and lots of repetediv stuff like

KRISTEN
It’s so cold.
JAMES
Just think about the bed.   It’s
warm in the bed.
KRISTEN
Can’t this wait til tomorrow?
JAMES
I’m thirsty.  I need ice.  We could
be sleeping.