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SimplyScripts Screenwriting Discussion Board    Unproduced Screenplay Discussion    Short Scripts  ›  The Art of Persuasion - In Production Moderators: bert
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  Author    The Art of Persuasion - In Production  (currently 10264 views)
Don
Posted: December 22nd, 2010, 7:50pm Report to Moderator
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So, what are you writing?

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The Art of Persuasion by Gabriel Moronta (mr. ripley) - Short - A angel and demon battle over a soul.  14 pages - pdf, format


+++
Script removed at the request of the writer.  

Help fund the making of this film - http://www.indiegogo.com/projects/the-art-of-persuasion/x/6399427

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Revision History (4 edits; 1 reasons shown)
Don  -  March 6th, 2014, 10:05am
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Mr.Ripley
Posted: December 23rd, 2010, 12:47am Report to Moderator
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Thanks Don for posting this up.

Thoughts (positive and negative) are welcomed. I take it all into consideration.

I did several rewrites on this to the point of exhaustion.

This was originally a SoulShadows entry but I decided to not submit it since it was too complicated back then. Went back to this when I was stuck in my feature and needed my juices flowing.

Looking for outside feedback. If you want, I could read something of yours in return.

Thanks again for those who critique,
Gabe


Just Murdered by Sean Elwood (Zombie Sean) and Gabriel Moronta (Mr. Ripley) - (Dark Comedy, Horror) All is fair in love and war. A hopeless romantic gay man resorts to bloodshed to win the coveted position of Bridesmaid. 99 pages.
https://www.simplyscripts.net/cgi-bin/Blah/Blah.pl?b-comedy/m-1624410571/
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cloroxmartini
Posted: December 23rd, 2010, 2:37am Report to Moderator
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Nice.

I don't like people offing themselves because it happens so much. It's such a quick way to end stories after people screw themselves up.

The push pull between good an evil has a nice flow, Matthew listening to each voice, struggling with decisions, making the wrong ones for the wrong reasons and being influenced all the way, then losing. It would be interesting to see where Matthew is now, since we get to see Alexander afterwards.

And what of Gabriella? Does she go back to God and say she lost that one, better luck on the next one?

Why not make Matthew a punk? But then we might not care about him. But the punk would have the same struggle, same influences of good and evil, right?
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Mr.Ripley
Posted: December 23rd, 2010, 11:23am Report to Moderator
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Thanks for the read. Glad you enjoyed it.


Quoted Text
I don't like people offing themselves because it happens so much. It's such a quick way to end stories after people screw themselves up.


I understand but I needed this story to end. I wanted this to be a short, with a small cast, and with limited locations to entice filmmakers to want to film this, if interested.

And I wanted Matthew to lose. By killing himself, Matthew goes to hell according to Catholicism.  


Quoted Text
The push pull between good an evil has a nice flow, Matthew listening to each voice, struggling with decisions, making the wrong ones for the wrong reasons and being influenced all the way, then losing. It would be interesting to see where Matthew is now, since we get to see Alexander afterwards.


Thanks. I really worked on that for a while.



Quoted Text
And what of Gabriella? Does she go back to God and say she lost that one, better luck on the next one?

Why not make Matthew a punk? But then we might not care about him. But the punk would have the same struggle, same influences of good and evil, right?


It's a loss for God. It never crossed my mind to include Gabriella and God. I'll take that into consideration. Thanks

I wanted people to care for Matthew. This short is representation of what people are suffering in NY with the job loss and bad economy.  

If you want something read of yours, let me know. Thanks for your critique.
Gabe


Just Murdered by Sean Elwood (Zombie Sean) and Gabriel Moronta (Mr. Ripley) - (Dark Comedy, Horror) All is fair in love and war. A hopeless romantic gay man resorts to bloodshed to win the coveted position of Bridesmaid. 99 pages.
https://www.simplyscripts.net/cgi-bin/Blah/Blah.pl?b-comedy/m-1624410571/
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grademan
Posted: December 23rd, 2010, 11:48am Report to Moderator
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Gabriel,
Oh no, another review from this guy…

Overall I liked this.  Here are my comments.

Highlights

I liked the father treating the son as a dumb ass.  I also liked how his father started out with innocuous statements like “did you have a good day.’

Matthew was a typical male, blind to the possibilities around him.  Leave it to the wife to work out a compromise solution.

The pace was good and started cooking when the father calls.

Things to consider:

Word choices in the beginning.  What does dressed heavily mean? Dressed in all-white is the same is dressed in white.  The word all seldom adds anything to the sentence. When sitting in the car people are identified as sits at, sits in, sits on.

What did “repeats again” add to your story?

this is a story told many ways many times on the boards.  Yours is unique in that it involves seeing the crime on TV.

I hard time differentiating between Gabriel and Alexander through their dialogue.  Just too friendly between them.

Matthew was tougher than I thought, or weaker depending on how I look at it. I am not sure if I felt his desperation. Almost but not quite.

Thought the ending with Lucifer was weak. Could have ended after the gun shot.  Where was Gabriella’s wrapup time with God.

I wonder if the story would have been more powerful if you had not had the Alexander and Gabriel characters. perhaps having his brother and his wife playing the roles of good versus evil.  And the old man playing a godlike roll.

Did the kid get shot?  I wasn't sure.  If so, that would make sense as to why Matthew shot himself even though he had a newborn  at home.

Hope this helps,

Gary


Revision History (3 edits; 1 reasons shown)
grademan  -  December 23rd, 2010, 3:08pm
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RayW
Posted: December 23rd, 2010, 12:09pm Report to Moderator
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Howdy Gabe

It's been nice to finally read something of yours.
It's nice.

I remember you working on something for the last 7WC, that you were going slow for the reasons such things happen, and I remain interested in whatever product finally has come of that, no matter the time elapsed.
It's all good. No hurries. No worries.

If Clorox Martini hadn't said it first I might not have noticed, but the good and evil arguments do flow well.
The consistent patter between them, despite escalating events in Matthew's life, carries well to the end as if they've worked this routine over centuries almost losing enthusiasm rather than honing it.
I don't think their bosses have noticed.

Aside from the absence of the much ballyhooed left-justified FADE IN: your formatting looks fine.
Flashback is done well, although it doesn't really add anything to the story. Without it the story goes just fine.
One less scene for a director to shoot!

I kind of understand that the victor, Alexander, gets face time with the boss.
Makes sense to me as is.
Sux2B the loser. Oh, well.

The subject is rather "done", but this is a fine, fimable execution of it.
When I did THE OTHER HOOF everyone saw it going in eight different directions, all completely missing my intentions, so I'll refrain from suggesting "additional avenues" to pursue.

It's nice.
Cut the flashback, but otherwise it's fine.

Please save a review for AUTOMATED (working title) to be posted in a couple weeks.
Gracias!



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Electric Dreamer
Posted: December 23rd, 2010, 12:51pm Report to Moderator
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Whoops, looks like there's two versions of this posted for some reason.
I'll re-post my comments here...

Hey Gabe.

I'll give you another read. You've been generous with your time on my stuff.

Gotta say, I don't care for angel/demon conscience battle ideas in general.
This one is no different, right down to the all white and all black clothing.
I had a problem with your opening, is was frustratingly wordy.
Instead of taking a sentence to describe each character's seating assignment in the car...
How about, "Matt looks at the picture as he drives." Takes care of him.
"Gabriela looks at the cell phone in his hand." Watch the road, she says.
Alexander leans forward between the pair. Then deliver his opening dialog.
This tells the story instead of telling seat assignments. Just my thought.

Put "Winter" in your slug instead of taking extra lines about heavy clothing.
Stuff like this would have helped me stay focused on your opening page.

p. 3 Heed my warning, very prophetic, was that intentional?
p. 5 The slo mo direction after the gun is fired yanked me out of your story.
p. 7 Seems weird the concerned mother isn't calling.
      She only speaks after Matt calls the jerky dad type.

I have a hard time getting into a character that kills innocents to pay bills.
We don't see Matt debate with the angel and demon characters.
That's usually where the meat of these types of story is, the conflict.
For a story about the battle of conscience, there's very little dilemma or debate.

Sorry, Gabe, I didn't care for this one.
Good luck on Obscure and thanks for posting.

Regards,
E.D.


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Mr.Ripley
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Thanks Guys,

To Gary

Thanks for the highlights.

In regards to your considerations:

I'll work on my word choices. The "dressed heavily" was something I was debating on either deleting or keeping. It was supposed to mean that Matthew was wearing his coat with a hoodie. But I didn't want to be too specific with his clothes. But it was my mistake. I should have just written it.  

"Repeats again" was my way in not repeating the clerk going to the cash register, taking money out, and putting it in the bag. I'll see what I can do with this.

I was hesitant in putting the tv scene in since I wanted this to be low budget. But then i thought, it could be done in low budget by not showing much, so it stayed.

They know each other through Matthew. They've been doing this for a while in order to win Matthew's soul for the long or short run.  

I'll work on showing his desperation. I admit that. Probably show his tattered clothing or add a flashback.  

I wanted to promote my Christian script . And if people liked Alexander much, wanted to say he would be in my next Christian script. Guess I was wrong. lol.  

I never though about giving Gabriella time with God at the end. She did lose. But you're the second person to bring this up, so I'm taking into this consideration.

I strictly wanted this to be angel and demon scenario. Nothing with the family. It would have made a surprising reveal for example that the wife was a demon. However, the angel and demon represented his inner thoughts. Also, I didn't want  anyone to represented as a angel or demon.  

The clerk did get shot but survived hence the robbery came on the news.

Hopefully this makes sense. If not ask me and I'll explain.
Gabe


Just Murdered by Sean Elwood (Zombie Sean) and Gabriel Moronta (Mr. Ripley) - (Dark Comedy, Horror) All is fair in love and war. A hopeless romantic gay man resorts to bloodshed to win the coveted position of Bridesmaid. 99 pages.
https://www.simplyscripts.net/cgi-bin/Blah/Blah.pl?b-comedy/m-1624410571/
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Mr.Ripley
Posted: December 23rd, 2010, 6:51pm Report to Moderator
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Hey ray

I've seen you commenting a lot. Don't be afraid to offer your view on how a story should go. It might help the writer out.

I'm still working on the feature. It's a long battle. lol.

I wanted there to be highs and lows for the angel and demon throughout the story.  Life ain't simple so.   Their dialogue was one of the the hardest parts of the script.

I noticed after I submitted it. That's how focus I get to a story. I forgot that

The flashback was meant to establish the reason why Matthew commits this robbery and Sarah before we make it to the apartment. I was even thinking about adding a flashback or a scene where Matthew shoots the clerk. But i couldn't think of anything.  

Thanks. I've been messing up on execution for a while. But I'm sure some people are going to say this sucks so. lol.

let me know when AUTOMATED comes up.

Gabe

  


Just Murdered by Sean Elwood (Zombie Sean) and Gabriel Moronta (Mr. Ripley) - (Dark Comedy, Horror) All is fair in love and war. A hopeless romantic gay man resorts to bloodshed to win the coveted position of Bridesmaid. 99 pages.
https://www.simplyscripts.net/cgi-bin/Blah/Blah.pl?b-comedy/m-1624410571/

Revision History (1 edits)
Mr.Ripley  -  December 23rd, 2010, 7:05pm
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Mr.Ripley
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Hey E.D.

Thanks for your comments. The angel and demon conscience story gets tiring after a while. I was very hesitant in writing this since I saw people writing this type of story. But I like the topic. You gotta write what you like.

Matt's not driving. He's parked. But I get your point. I'll see how I can trim this.

The "heed my warning" comment was intentional. It's hard to describe but...let's say person A tells person B 7 numbers and tells him to play this in the lottery. Person B doesn't since he's a hard head. person A tries to convince him to play it but person B doesn't. The 7 numbers come out and Person B is angry at himself since he didn't follow person A. Hopefully this makes sense. If not, I'm a very complicated person.

He didn't kill the clerk. The dad says that the clerk survived. And it was a robbery, no murder was intended. It just so happens that Alexander had other plans.

No worries. I'm glad for your time and comments. Let me know if you want me to read something of yours.

Gabe




Just Murdered by Sean Elwood (Zombie Sean) and Gabriel Moronta (Mr. Ripley) - (Dark Comedy, Horror) All is fair in love and war. A hopeless romantic gay man resorts to bloodshed to win the coveted position of Bridesmaid. 99 pages.
https://www.simplyscripts.net/cgi-bin/Blah/Blah.pl?b-comedy/m-1624410571/
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RayW
Posted: December 23rd, 2010, 8:46pm Report to Moderator
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Well... if you're askin' [how the story should go]...  

Skip the flashbacks.
As dumb as I think most people are, I'm pretty sure the opening of Matt looking at his girl and his daughter on his cellphone sells the family need well enough.
No benefit to hammering it in twice.
Story isn't that complex.

Second, as Matt's situational anxiety ratchets up so should the arguing intensity and "passion" between Gabby & Alex.
All three elements escalate together.
The story is really about them much more so than Matt.
If they're fighting for souls - then fight, d@mmit!
Put some "soul" into your soul-game.

Third, no need at all for Matt to have even shot or let alone kill the clerk.
Armed robbery with shots fired is deep enough doo-doo.
Matt could be such a wiener that he's suiciding over just getting in family and police trouble over robbing the store.
No need for a killing.

Fourth, and purely just because I'm an @ss, I'd make Alex more over the top.
Page ten butt f#cked remark coulda gone ten times farther.
I think you could make it a stress-comedy scene there.

As is, I don't like Matt.
I don't empathize with his supposed plight or dilemma.
Anyone dumb enough to rob a grocery store with cameras rolling deserves to get what's coming.
For God's sake. Rob the pizza dude on a Friday night.
D'ja!
Idiot!
Rob a barber shop. Not a hair salon. Women do checks and cards. Guys do cash. Rob a barber shop.
Dumb munkey moron.
He deserves to goto h3ll just on general principles.

How'zat?    



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Mr.Ripley
Posted: December 23rd, 2010, 9:03pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from RayW
Well... if you're askin' [how the story should go]...  

Skip the flashbacks.
As dumb as I think most people are, I'm pretty sure the opening of Matt looking at his girl and his daughter on his cellphone sells the family need well enough.
No benefit to hammering it in twice.
Story isn't that complex.

Second, as Matt's situational anxiety ratchets up so should the arguing intensity and "passion" between Gabby & Alex.
All three elements escalate together.
The story is really about them much more so than Matt.
If they're fighting for souls - then fight, d@mmit!
Put some "soul" into your soul-game.

Third, no need at all for Matt to have even shot or let alone kill the clerk.
Armed robbery with shots fired is deep enough doo-doo.
Matt could be such a wiener that he's suiciding over just getting in family and police trouble over robbing the store.
No need for a killing.

Fourth, and purely just because I'm an @ss, I'd make Alex more over the top.
Page ten butt f#cked remark coulda gone ten times farther.
I think you could make it a stress-comedy scene there.

As is, I don't like Matt.
I don't empathize with his supposed plight or dilemma.
Anyone dumb enough to rob a grocery store with cameras rolling deserves to get what's coming.
For God's sake. Rob the pizza dude on a Friday night.
D'ja!
Idiot!
Rob a barber shop. Not a hair salon. Women do checks and cards. Guys do cash. Rob a barber shop.
Dumb munkey moron.
He deserves to goto h3ll just on general principles.

How'zat?    


LMAO. Honesty is the best policy.

As to your first comment, I'll consider removing it. I wanted to establish Sarah and Matthew's dilemma early on. But, like you said, it's already implied. I'll think about it.

Second comment, I was thinking of Alex using curse words against her but I found it to be crappy. No one curses a lot. I wanted their insults to be with class.

Third comment, the shooting was supposed to lessen Matthew's morale and show that Alexander was up to no good from the beginning. Alex shouts gun when the clerk didn't have one. Gabriella points this out. Matthew just doesn't realize it.

Fourth comment, I presume you liked Alex's victory dance. lol. I was really scared that people will find that weak like Gary. But I kept it since it cracked me up when I came up with it. I never saw that in a film, IMO.

At the end, it was the clerk that provided the sketch to the police. Matthew was wearing a hoodie to cover his face. But I need to work on showing this part of this.

Hope this explains it,
Gabe


Just Murdered by Sean Elwood (Zombie Sean) and Gabriel Moronta (Mr. Ripley) - (Dark Comedy, Horror) All is fair in love and war. A hopeless romantic gay man resorts to bloodshed to win the coveted position of Bridesmaid. 99 pages.
https://www.simplyscripts.net/cgi-bin/Blah/Blah.pl?b-comedy/m-1624410571/
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bert
Posted: December 24th, 2010, 2:36am Report to Moderator
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Hey, Gabe.  Great to see you writing something that is generally well-received as opposed to confusing the cr*p out of everybody.  I trust you know I mean that in a friendly way, as I do find that your stuff has a unique voice that you continue to improve upon.

I liked the flash as a transition from the car to the park.  That was a nice touch.

But I was confused by the voices of Alexander and Gabriella after Matthew enters the store.  Were they actually there, or was this VO?  Fix this oversight; I would go with the VO.

When Matthew watches the news, I would replace the police sketch with surveillance footage from a security camera.  Perhaps in the parking lot.  Then the clerk could have died, which vastly increases the stakes for Matthew -- and as a bonus, his final act makes a little more sense.

From your comments, I think you are placing too much emphasis on this stuff with the hoodie -- overthinking it, you know?  Show his face, move the story, no big deal.

For me, you might be taking Alexander a bit too far once Matthew commits his final act, but the first line you give him is great.  The perfect reaction for that character.  Keep that, for sure.

I know exactly what you are going for with your final scene haha.  It is always a risk to reference another of your works in a script, but I enjoy it when writers do so, and I have done it myself.  I am not sure if I should encourage you to keep that little shout-out, but I did want to let you know that at least one reader recognized your intent.  

And I reached the end without scratching my head one time!  Nice work, Gabe.  This script represents an improvement, and I enjoyed it -- although you do need to go through and add VO where necessary in a consistent fashion.

I was beginning to wonder if I would ever see a script from you that had no WTF moments.  Now I find that I almost miss them...


Hey, it's my tiny, little IMDb!
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Mr.Ripley
Posted: December 24th, 2010, 3:13am Report to Moderator
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Hey Bert

Thanks for comments. I'm enthralled that one of my works is received with no scratching heads. I knew this would happen sometime in my life. Now that it has, I'm going to try and retain this, espeically with my feature.  


Quoted Text
But I was confused by the voices of Alexander and Gabriella after Matthew enters the store.  Were they actually there, or was this VO?  Fix this oversight; I would go with the VO.


Alex and Gabby were there. I wanted them to be present throughout the script. But I will consider the VO.


Quoted Text
When Matthew watches the news, I would replace the police sketch with surveillance footage from a security camera.  Perhaps in the parking lot.  Then the clerk could have died, which vastly increases the stakes for Matthew -- and as a bonus, his final act makes a little more sense.

From your comments, I think you are placing too much emphasis on this stuff with the hoodie -- overthinking it, you know?  Show his face, move the story, no big deal.


Point taken. I'm taking some time away from this short in order to rewrite it later.


Quoted Text
For me, you might be taking Alexander a bit too far once Matthew commits his final act, but the first line you give him is great.  The perfect reaction for that character.  Keep that, for sure.


It was fine I was walking there. But I'm glad that you liked one part of it. Writers gotta take those risks.


Quoted Text
I know exactly what you are going for with your final scene haha.  It is always a risk to reference another of your works in a script, but I enjoy it when writers do so, and I have done it myself.  I am not sure if I should encourage you to keep that little shout-out, but I did want to let you know that at least one reader recognized your intent.  


Thank You Bert. Acknowledgment is accepted. I might take that out in the rewrite to make it a more drama piece. Haven't decided yet. I like the idea of a prequel.


Quoted Text
And I reached the end without scratching my head one time!  Nice work, Gabe.  This script represents an improvement, and I enjoyed it -- although you do need to go through and add VO where necessary in a consistent fashion.


That's one of the best comments I've ever received. That's a good sign my writing is looking up.  


Quoted Text
I was beginning to wonder if I would ever see a script from you that had no WTF moments.  Now I find that I almost miss them...


I have plenty of shorts on this site. God be with you if you do go back and look at them.

Thanks again,
Gabe


Just Murdered by Sean Elwood (Zombie Sean) and Gabriel Moronta (Mr. Ripley) - (Dark Comedy, Horror) All is fair in love and war. A hopeless romantic gay man resorts to bloodshed to win the coveted position of Bridesmaid. 99 pages.
https://www.simplyscripts.net/cgi-bin/Blah/Blah.pl?b-comedy/m-1624410571/
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TheRichcraft
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Good work overall, but I would follow the advice given by the others about tweaking the story here and there.  Good draft that just needs some more polishing.

I do suggest that both Alexander and Gabriella wear gray clothes.  The black and white clothing were too cliche.
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