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SimplyScripts Screenwriting Discussion Board    Unproduced Screenplay Discussion    Short Scripts  ›  A Stand Against Evil Moderators: bert
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  Author    A Stand Against Evil  (currently 2832 views)
Don
Posted: July 25th, 2013, 5:46pm Report to Moderator
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So, what are you writing?

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A Stand Against Evil by Dan Ball - Short, Sci Fi, Fantasy - A Zoroastrian hot dog vendor must defend his business and his customers from evil. 9 pages - pdf, format


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Forgive
Posted: July 25th, 2013, 6:23pm Report to Moderator
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Can't get the link to work - divine intervention for getting cars 'n' gods confused?
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DanBall
Posted: July 25th, 2013, 9:05pm Report to Moderator
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Sorry, I'm not quite sure what's going on with my hosting service.

Try this: https://www.dropbox.com/s/6468bge8yvs291y/astandagainstevil_draft4.pdf


"I remember a time of chaos. Ruined dreams. This wasted land. But most of all, I remember The Road Warrior. The man we called 'Max'."

THE PINBALL WARRIOR (scifi, WIP, ~30 pg.)
A STAND AGAINST EVIL (short, 9 pg.)
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MarkRenshaw
Posted: July 26th, 2013, 4:49am Report to Moderator
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That second link works for me.

Iím writing these notes as Iím reading the script.

The opening reads like the intro to a joke. You know like, ďA Rabi and Nun enter a barĒ type joke? You introduce 11 people in three lines!  Will be interesting to see if all these will play a part in the story.

This ĎThe Zoroastrian way.í Ė I like the idea of it, Iíve come across similar principles in some spirituality stuff Iím into at the moment but in no way does Jaffrey seem to be following these principles in any of his actions or words.

Ahh here comes a demon lol Ė Iím warming up to this!

Wow! You know what, I really liked that! It was quirky, funny, spiritual and had a good message. Iíd say donít introduce all the characters at once, just say something generic like ďSeveral customers are lined up waiting to be servedĒ and then introduce the Nuns etc only at the point where they become relevant to the story.

Iíd also suggest having something to show Jaffrey is trying to make a difference earlier with his hot dog stand. Having a narrator say it is not enough, and is a bit of a short cut really. With his actions and his words we need to understand what heís doing or if heís given up, why?

I didnít understand some of the religious elements of the story but I understood enough. It may have helped me to understand the demons role more and what he could and couldnít do. For example he asks for a deal to take the customers souls and then says later he could take them if he wanted. Was he lying? If not why didnít he just take them? It would have been nice to have something in to help the audience understand the rules more.

I also didnít understand the customers reaction or lack of to Ahriman and his actions. It seemed at first they couldnít see him or were ignoring him. Then when he killed the nuns the rest reacted in terror briefly but didnít run, then calmly carried on ordering their hotdogs.

For the test to truly work, the customers should never really been aware of Ahriman at all or the danger they were in.  Once they know heís there and for them to pass they need to act Ďgoodí it seems to defeat the purpose of the test. Iíd suggest having Ahriman visible (in his true form anyway) only to Jaffrey and their conversations hidden to the other customers also.

Ahriman could curse the nuns and tells Jaffrey they will die agonising deaths soon. You could then either show this in a kind of a flash forward or not even show it at all and have Jaffrey know it to be true. This raises the tension, thereís very real danger and none of the customers are aware of it. If Jaffrey is to save them not only can he not tell them anything but he canít demonstrate to them the danger they are in either.  

Just some ideas but yeah, I really liked that, shows a lot of potential.


For more of my scripts, stories, produced movies and the ocassional blog, check out my new website. CLICK
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StevenClark
Posted: July 26th, 2013, 5:10am Report to Moderator
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Dan,
I liked this one alot.  Clear and concise.  I read it twice as I suspected the different type, races or religions of Jaffrey's customers might yield some meaning.  Damned if I can figure that out.  Still a bit early.  Perhaps it's just you showing us that people of all races can come together when evil is at hand...something like that.

Jaffrey's character was well done.  Enjoyed his speech pattern, and making him Indian, and the defacto leader here, goes a ways to back up what I sdaid earlier about people of different races uniting.

Really, I think this story is a good twist on some other "The Devil and ..." type stories.  I wrote one myself years and years ago.  

Ahriman, aside from his appearance, seemed pretty normal and matter of fact in his speech.  Sort of like the devil could really be anyone.

Intersting how you chose the nuns to be the first to go.

A bit of foreshadowing with the candle going out.

And interesting how it was the deaf mime who set Jaffrey's victory in motion with sign language.  Sort of a take on action instead of words.  

Your descriptions and action were clear enough.  Did you really need the narrator?  I feel that minus this the script wouldv'e been more ambiguous, thus giving the reader something more to think about in terms of the story, and Jaffrey's arc.  That was pretty much the only thing I had an issue with.

I did not notice anything wrong technically.  Maybe I missed something, but was too into the story, I guess.

Otherwise, a good read.  And a clever take on the "Devil and..." type story.  

Regards,
Steve


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DanBall
Posted: July 27th, 2013, 9:57am Report to Moderator
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Hey, Mark and Steve. Thanks a lot for your responses. I'm busy at a family reunion this weekend, but I'm thinking a lot about the customers' reactions (Mark) and the narration (Steve).

Also, Don, my web host went out of business so the link I gave you is no longer hosted. But I also attached the PDF to my submission form just in case something like this happened, so if you still have that, you have the PDF.


"I remember a time of chaos. Ruined dreams. This wasted land. But most of all, I remember The Road Warrior. The man we called 'Max'."

THE PINBALL WARRIOR (scifi, WIP, ~30 pg.)
A STAND AGAINST EVIL (short, 9 pg.)
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AmbitionIsKey
Posted: July 27th, 2013, 9:46pm Report to Moderator
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Hey Dan, I read this yesterday and was quite busy so I didn't manage to get my thoughts written down.  But it's 3:40am here, there's no nice food anywhere in this house, so I thought I'd get to it.

I really liked this piece.  The writing was real crispy and flowing.  Pithy.  Made for a quick read for me yesterday and it was enjoyable.  It worked in the pages, and you did manage to fit in a lot in a few short pages, and it packed a punch.

Wasn't a fan of the narration, if felt unneeded...

I liked Jaffrey a lot.  I felt that many of the characters could have been cut to save introducing them in one block paragraph.

Anyways, this was SUCH an intriguing read with a nice message behind it.  A cool story.  I'm actually interested to find out what made you wanna write this, if there was something personal behind it?  It was real cool.

I don't know what other advice to add to fix this.  Length was perfect, great writing, cool story.  I'd just say rethink the narration, because it felt too unnatural.

Curt


"No matter what you do, your job is to tell your story..."

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AmbitionIsKey  -  July 28th, 2013, 8:45am
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dogglebe
Posted: July 28th, 2013, 8:41am Report to Moderator
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I wasn't fond of this script; I'm not even sure I understood it completely.  It just seemed to go on for way too long.  IMO, you could cut two or three pages off it.

Your intro:


Quoted Text
Two COPS (30s), two BUSINESSPEOPLE (30s and 40s), a JUNKIE (early 20s), two NUNS (50s and 60s), two RABBIS (both 60s), a MIME (early 30s), and a SUMO WRESTLER (mid 30s) with achinchilla...


isn't a good way to introduce characters.  It overloads the readers' heads with information.  You could save the descriptions and introduce them as they step up to the stand.

Hope this helps.


Phil
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Colkurtz8
Posted: July 28th, 2013, 7:31pm Report to Moderator
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Daniel

Itís not often Iíve had to look up the meaning of a word in the logline

Technically, the writing is solid.

Iím liking the poetic depictions by the Narrator of the Zoroaster creed.

While I like the flat out randomness of it and not knowing much about the spiritual context explored (though a lot of it is common to most religious beliefs anyway) the oft silly humour isnít really working for me. You got this highly bizarre situation with all these unique character but the dialogue feels rather stale, particularly Jaffrey.

Ahrimanís in your defence, does talk with a little more wit and flare.

The wager set-up between Jaffrey and Ahriman, while not being anything original, does have me curious to see what Jaffrey is going to do to win the bet.

A nice sleight of hand (pun intended, sorry) with Jaffrey using sign language to prompt the mime but the whole thing still left me scratching my head. And I donít mean that in an entirely bad way either, I enjoyed the variety of cartonnish characters but overall itís not really my kind of thing.

I struggle to see what age group you are aiming for too. Whoís your audience? The humour leans more to the slapstick and broad while the narrative explores ethics and faith...hell of a combination you got there! But are they compatible?

Col.


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DanBall
Posted: July 29th, 2013, 2:03pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from MarkRenshaw
Wow! You know what, I really liked that! It was quirky, funny, spiritual and had a good message. Iíd say donít introduce all the characters at once, just say something generic like ďSeveral customers are lined up waiting to be servedĒ and then introduce the Nuns etc only at the point where they become relevant to the story.


So you're saying it might be a better surprise if I kinda play my 'hand of characters' close to the chest? I think that's a pretty good idea.


Quoted Text
Iíd also suggest having something to show Jaffrey is trying to make a difference earlier with his hot dog stand. Having a narrator say it is not enough, and is a bit of a short cut really. With his actions and his words we need to understand what heís doing or if heís given up, why?


The narrator was the quickest, most economical way I could think of to get the point across. Otherwise, I'd resort to more exposition and/or slow the story down explaining it. Maybe I could have Ahriman push Jaffrey more, asking him why he's not more excited to be serving people. Also, the narrator fit my idea of this being a modern day fairy tale or entry from "1001 Arabian Nights."


Quoted Text
I didnít understand some of the religious elements of the story but I understood enough. It may have helped me to understand the demons role more and what he could and couldnít do. For example he asks for a deal to take the customers souls and then says later he could take them if he wanted. Was he lying? If not why didnít he just take them? It would have been nice to have something in to help the audience understand the rules more.


In Zoroastrian belief, good and evil is seen more along the lines of order and chaos. The forces of evil (one of which is Ahriman) are more about causing people to not do good things. Order is maintained by people doing good, but if they don't keep that up, then things devolve into chaos. So it's not like the demons encourage people to murder someone as opposed to helping an old woman cross the street...they just encourage people not to help her cross the street.

With Jaffrey vs. Ahriman, my thought would be that Ahriman's bored and he's spent milennia leading people to an easy demise. With Jaffrey, he wants to play a little bit because he doesn't think Jaffrey's going to defeat him.


Quoted Text
I also didnít understand the customers reaction or lack of to Ahriman and his actions. It seemed at first they couldnít see him or were ignoring him. Then when he killed the nuns the rest reacted in terror briefly but didnít run, then calmly carried on ordering their hotdogs.


Yeah, that was a part that I didn't develop properly. At first, I had no reactions from the crowd, as if Ahriman didn't exist, but I didn't like it because then they wouldn't know Jaffrey had saved them.



Quoted Text
For the test to truly work, the customers should never really been aware of Ahriman at all or the danger they were in.  Once they know heís there and for them to pass they need to act Ďgoodí it seems to defeat the purpose of the test. Iíd suggest having Ahriman visible (in his true form anyway) only to Jaffrey and their conversations hidden to the other customers also.


Hmm...this makes a lot of sense. Although, I don't know how you would get away with portraying their conversation alongside Jaffrey talking to the customers. I suppose it could be a flashback or the customers think he's talking to himself. Not sure I really like either of those options.


Quoted Text
Ahriman could curse the nuns and tells Jaffrey they will die agonising deaths soon. You could then either show this in a kind of a flash forward or not even show it at all and have Jaffrey know it to be true. This raises the tension, thereís very real danger and none of the customers are aware of it. If Jaffrey is to save them not only can he not tell them anything but he canít demonstrate to them the danger they are in either.


By that point, I feel like the tension would be deflated. I think what I'd rather do is make Ahriman visible to the customers, but have him keep them detained at a distance so they can't hear his wager to Jaffrey. That way, they think they're just stepping up to order while this creepy demon/guy-in-a-suit watches them. When the nuns step up and are disintegrated, they're terrified. Then it's up to Jaffrey to double down and do good.


Quoted Text
Just some ideas but yeah, I really liked that, shows a lot of potential.


Thanks, Mark! You brought up some fantastic points that I knew I was overlooking. Can't remember if I've read any of your stuff lately or not. If there's anything you want me to look at, let me know.


"I remember a time of chaos. Ruined dreams. This wasted land. But most of all, I remember The Road Warrior. The man we called 'Max'."

THE PINBALL WARRIOR (scifi, WIP, ~30 pg.)
A STAND AGAINST EVIL (short, 9 pg.)
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DanBall
Posted: July 29th, 2013, 10:02pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from StevenClark
Dan,
I liked this one alot.  Clear and concise.  I read it twice as I suspected the different type, races or religions of Jaffrey's customers might yield some meaning.  Damned if I can figure that out.  Still a bit early.  Perhaps it's just you showing us that people of all races can come together when evil is at hand...something like that.


Thanks, Steve!

No meaning behind the characters, mainly just wanted to have an assortment of odd characters, like a fairy tale. The sumo wrestler with a chinchilla was the cherry on top. With the nuns later on, I did play off the idea that nuns are usually do-gooders, but Ahriman either didn't count their own good deeds in their favor or they were complacent nuns.


Quoted Text
Jaffrey's character was well done.  Enjoyed his speech pattern, and making him Indian, and the defacto leader here, goes a ways to back up what I sdaid earlier about people of different races uniting.


Yeah, I had fun "sprucing up" his grammar.


Quoted Text
Your descriptions and action were clear enough.  Did you really need the narrator?  I feel that minus this the script wouldv'e been more ambiguous, thus giving the reader something more to think about in terms of the story, and Jaffrey's arc.  That was pretty much the only thing I had an issue with.


The whole point of the narration was to add to the atmosphere of the story and to reduce the exposition I was probably going to need to include. Either exposition or lengthen the story itself. But I'd rather find a way to make the narrator work than get rid of it, because it's part of the 'Arabian Night' concept.


Quoted Text
Otherwise, a good read.  And a clever take on the "Devil and..." type story.


Thanks, Steve! I know I already read one of your scripts, but I'll keep a lookout for the others and try to give some thoughts when I can.


"I remember a time of chaos. Ruined dreams. This wasted land. But most of all, I remember The Road Warrior. The man we called 'Max'."

THE PINBALL WARRIOR (scifi, WIP, ~30 pg.)
A STAND AGAINST EVIL (short, 9 pg.)
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DanBall
Posted: July 30th, 2013, 8:48am Report to Moderator
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Quoted from AmbitionIsKey
Hey Dan, I read this yesterday and was quite busy so I didn't manage to get my thoughts written down.  But it's 3:40am here, there's no nice food anywhere in this house, so I thought I'd get to it.


Oh, man. And you were going to read a script about food when you wrote this...  

Quoted Text
Wasn't a fan of the narration, if felt unneeded...


Yeah, I could see that. When it comes to using narration, I'm not the most experienced at it and I wanted to use it because this concept called for it and I didn't want to spend all day explaining things using the characters themselves.


Quoted Text
I liked Jaffrey a lot.  I felt that many of the characters could have been cut to save introducing them in one block paragraph.


Hmm. Perhaps. I have a variety of characters, but their identities don't really serve a purpose. Like the sumo wrestler could be anyone with a chinchilla. It's just interesting to look at, though.


Quoted Text
Anyways, this was SUCH an intriguing read with a nice message behind it.  A cool story.  I'm actually interested to find out what made you wanna write this, if there was something personal behind it?  It was real cool.


One day, I tried to scribble down 7 short ideas in 10 minutes and this was one of those. The others were about a cowboy who meets a wizard, a football player that has a compulsive-tackling disorder, a robot prepping to throw a house party for his coworkers, a girl who rents out her womb to pay for college, a boy who's visited by Homer the Poet in his bedroom, and a couple on a date that finds out they're step-siblings.

Of those ideas, I thought this one and the cowboy/wizard one worked the best. Some of those others might work too with more thought put into them. I tried fleshing out the step-siblings one, but when I bounced the idea off people, no one liked it.


Quoted Text
I don't know what other advice to add to fix this.  Length was perfect, great writing, cool story.  I'd just say rethink the narration, because it felt too unnatural.

Curt


Thanks, Curt! I know I've already read some of your other scripts, but I'll keep an eye out for more of them and try to give my thoughts when I can. Like I said above, the narration is part of the concept, so I'll probably work on trying to fix it, rather than drop it. Thanks for pointing that out!


"I remember a time of chaos. Ruined dreams. This wasted land. But most of all, I remember The Road Warrior. The man we called 'Max'."

THE PINBALL WARRIOR (scifi, WIP, ~30 pg.)
A STAND AGAINST EVIL (short, 9 pg.)
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DanBall
Posted: July 30th, 2013, 8:57am Report to Moderator
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Quoted from dogglebe
I wasn't fond of this script; I'm not even sure I understood it completely.  It just seemed to go on for way too long.  IMO, you could cut two or three pages off it.


Initially, I wanted to trim some from the beginning, particularly the junkie's episode, but I felt it cut to the action too soon without really establishing the Jaffrey character first. So I left it in.


Quoted Text
Your intro...isn't a good way to introduce characters.  It overloads the readers' heads with information.  You could save the descriptions and introduce them as they step up to the stand.


Yeah, I'm thinking it's best to reveal each character as they step up, as opposed to showing my hand all at once.

Phil, thanks for taking a look at this. Sorry you didn't like it more. Let me know if I can return the favor! In the meantime, I'll keep an eye out for your stuff and look it over.



"I remember a time of chaos. Ruined dreams. This wasted land. But most of all, I remember The Road Warrior. The man we called 'Max'."

THE PINBALL WARRIOR (scifi, WIP, ~30 pg.)
A STAND AGAINST EVIL (short, 9 pg.)
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DanBall
Posted: July 30th, 2013, 9:22am Report to Moderator
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Quoted from Colkurtz8
Daniel

Itís not often Iíve had to look up the meaning of a word in the logline


Yeah, it's not a very common religion. I chose it because I'm a HUGE Queen fan and Freddie Mercury was raised in a Zoroastrian family. The exotic nature of that sounded cool, so I wanted to tell a modern day Zoroastrian fairy tale of some sort.


Quoted Text
While I like the flat out randomness of it and not knowing much about the spiritual context explored (though a lot of it is common to most religious beliefs anyway) the oft silly humour isnít really working for me. You got this highly bizarre situation with all these unique character but the dialogue feels rather stale, particularly Jaffrey.


The main thing I tried to do with Jaffrey was make him grumpy and bad at English grammar. Also had him reword some cliches. I'm not really sure what I should do to give it more punch.


Quoted Text
I struggle to see what age group you are aiming for too. Whoís your audience? The humour leans more to the slapstick and broad while the narrative explores ethics and faith...hell of a combination you got there! But are they compatible?


I know this is the last thing a screenwriter should do, but I'm not really aiming for any 'age group'. I'm telling an entertaining story about good vs. evil that is meant to have universal appeal. It's a whimsical story with a message...like a fairy tale, which is precisely what I was aiming for.

Fairy tales, to my knowledge, weren't always aiming for a target demo. Why should storytellers always be forced to put their stories in a box these days? The profits and the trends behind that 'box' mentality will fade away someday, but the stories will remain and people will help themselves to enjoying them, whether they're in the target demo or not. Some producers will probably pass on it because of that, but others might see it as being fresh. We'll see.

In any case, I'm glad you still gave me honest feedback, despite your misgivings. It's really appreciated and I'll look for ways to return the favor.


"I remember a time of chaos. Ruined dreams. This wasted land. But most of all, I remember The Road Warrior. The man we called 'Max'."

THE PINBALL WARRIOR (scifi, WIP, ~30 pg.)
A STAND AGAINST EVIL (short, 9 pg.)
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Colkurtz8
Posted: July 31st, 2013, 2:17am Report to Moderator
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Quoted from DanBall

The main thing I tried to do with Jaffrey was make him grumpy and bad at English grammar. Also had him reword some cliches. I'm not really sure what I should do to give it more punch.


- Why not give him good grammar? He's self employed so we can assume he has been in the country a long time (although I  realise that immigrants would surprise you how quick they can get set up in their adopted country) and since he's dealing with customers, albeit rudely, wouldn't it be a interesting twist on the tired, old stereotype of broken-English-foreigner-commits-faux pas'-with-every-sentence by having him well spoken, in that affected, learned way?

He over compensates for English not being his native tongue by overt displays of wordplay.

This could allow you to have more fun with the way he deals with his customers too.


Quoted from DanBall

I know this is the last thing a screenwriter should do, but I'm not really aiming for any 'age group'. I'm telling an entertaining story about good vs. evil that is meant to have universal appeal. It's a whimsical story with a message...like a fairy tale, which is precisely what I was aiming for.

Fairy tales, to my knowledge, weren't always aiming for a target demo. Why should storytellers always be forced to put their stories in a box these days? The profits and the trends behind that 'box' mentality will fade away someday, but the stories will remain and people will help themselves to enjoying them, whether they're in the target demo or not. Some producers will probably pass on it because of that, but others might see it as being fresh. We'll see..


- While I totally concur with your sentiment, my vote is secured, sir!.  I'm wasn't talking about marketability, or trying to pigeonhole your script into a certain genre or type.

What I'm saying is that the mix of broad, often silly humour present in the script with an attempt to tackle fundamental religious and ethical philosophies is possibly an incompatible combination...or at least it jarred for me.

Of course, as I tend to do, I could be taking all this waaaaaay too seriously

Col.


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