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SimplyScripts Screenwriting Discussion Board    Unproduced Screenplay Discussion    Short Horror  ›  Manikin
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  Author    Manikin  (currently 2838 views)
Don
Posted: November 15th, 2016, 5:38pm Report to Moderator
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So, what are you writing?

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Manikin by Gary Manson - Short, Horror - Rick's dreams come true when the soul of his dead brother inhabits a havoc wreaking manikin. 16 pages - pdf, format

Writer interested in feedback on this work



Visit SimplyScripts.com for what is new on the site.

-------------
You will miss 100% of the shots you don't take.
- Wayne Gretzky

Revision History (3 edits; 1 reasons shown)
Don  -  November 19th, 2016, 3:41pm
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Dreamscale
Posted: November 16th, 2016, 9:39am Report to Moderator
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Very, very poorly written logline, filled with mistakes.

Incorrect use of periods, commas, apostrophes, and just downright poorly constructed.

I'm not even going to open this up, because I know how bad the writing is going to be.

Sorry, but this ain't gonna fly, bro.
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Gary Manson
Posted: November 16th, 2016, 2:20pm Report to Moderator
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Well, I am very sorry for missing an apostrophe off the word BROTHER'S. Having said that, I do think your comment is a bit over the top.

Do you not make mistakes? Didn't you ever make mistakes, when you first started writing?

I dare say, there will be some mistakes in the actual script but I am learning....

Encourage, don't discourage.

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Gary Manson  -  November 16th, 2016, 2:55pm
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Dreamscale
Posted: November 16th, 2016, 3:03pm Report to Moderator
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Not trying to be mean, Gary, just pointing out that your logline is riddled with mistakes.

It's far from just missing the apostrophe.
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LC
Posted: November 16th, 2016, 5:58pm Report to Moderator
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Hey Gary.

Read it and will post some comments later. Just on my way out at the mo'.


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Dreamscale
Posted: November 16th, 2016, 7:15pm Report to Moderator
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I read the first page, and as I knew, it is riddled with mistakes, sorry to say.

You need to learn how to use periods and commas, and when to and when not to use either.

Lots of unfilmables and wasted lines.

Just trying to make you aware, bro.
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Grandma Bear
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I took a quick look and Jeff is right, but don't let that discourage you from writing. Readers used to get VERY irritated with me for my grammar and lack of knowledge of especially how to use commas. I've learned a lot since and have many produced scripts by now. I'm still learning how to write properly in English, but it doesn't seem to bother readers as much anymore. So, Jeff is right, but don't get discouraged. Instead, realize that you have to learn these things and set out to become a better writer in order to tell your stories better.  


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Gary Manson
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Thank you to all who have commented on my second script. Well, at least my lack of knowledge when using punctuation. Some of the comments, I have found to be encouraging. Yes, I am new to writing, and yes I am obviously still learning.

I do, however, understand the need for correct punctuation, in action sequences, but not so much in dialogue.  As we all know, words are often misspelled, due to how actual dialogue is pronounced in today's society. But it is excepted.

The problem I have, and it is just my opinion but surely, only the writer knows how his or her dialogue, should be spoken. So, punctuation is merely subjective and should not detract from what the writer is actually trying to portray.

In short, too much, emphasis, is put on dialogue punctuation?

Cheers

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Gary Manson  -  November 17th, 2016, 6:33am
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Grandma Bear
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I would agree it's less important in dialogue. I still haven't decided which is better, write in a character's description that they speak like a southern grit or with a German accent, or actually write the words as they sound. I've done both, but most of the time I do it in the character intro. It's up to the actor and director to decide how the dialogue should be and reading words the way they sound rather than how they are properly spelled, just slows down the read IMHO.  


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Gary Manson
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Thank you, Angry Bear. Sorry, but I do not know your actual name. I appreciate your comments, though.

Cheers
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Dreamscale
Posted: November 17th, 2016, 10:09am Report to Moderator
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Gary, I'm Jeff.

Listen, bro, sure in dialogue words and phrasings may be written differently than they would in action/description lines, but why do you think punctuation would be different?  It wouldn't, as far as I can imagine.

Sure, you can have a character speak in incomplete sentences and the like, but normal punctuation rules will still apply.

Finally, did someone actually say something about your dialogue?  Why did you even bring this up?

Just look at both your logline and first page...do you see the mistakes/problems?  You may not...and others may not as well...but they're there.  Trust me, they are there and you need to learn what's wrong and how to make it right.

Your writing will improve exponentially if you learn these simple, basic rules of writing.
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Gary Manson
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Hi, Jeff.

I was merely asking a question about punctuation in dialogue, so I can get a better understanding. I thought, punctuation in dialogue, can cause pauses when the writer doesn't necessarily want a pause, am I right or wrong?

In answer to your question about my logline and first page, yes, I do see mistakes, which I will rectify.

My whole point is, I thought you were a bit abrupt, in your initial comment. I have read two of your scripts today and found, what I consider to be, mistakes but I carried on reading them because I was interested in the script as a whole and what you were writing about.

I don't mind comments about my work, as long as it is constructive. That's how we learn.

Cheers
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JakeJon
Posted: November 17th, 2016, 11:46am Report to Moderator
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G,
I liked your "story idea".  Creative!   My opinion, you could work the "Mani" story many different ways.  You're the "story master" here.  Create, create, create.
Not bad for # 2.

Some suggestions:

Pg. 14 " Shawn collared me".   Shawn's already dead,  No?

Pg. 16  (John pauses.  Downs a drink.)   John??  Who's John.

I know.  I'm guilty of the same.  Review, review, review before you submit.

Also, I think your Slugs need work.  

Pg. 13   INT.  LAMBERT COLLEGE - RECEPTION - MORNING - LATER

Maybe,  INT. LAMBERT COLLEGE - DAY

I think you can get location specific in the "Action" (you actually do)  or if you're moving to many rooms in the College, Mini Slug it.   Also, DAY or NIGHT.   Usually, LATER is implied when you move to the next scene.

Take no Prisoners!

JJ




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Dreamscale
Posted: November 17th, 2016, 12:19pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from Gary Manson
I was merely asking a question about punctuation in dialogue, so I can get a better understanding. I thought, punctuation in dialogue, can cause pauses when the writer doesn't necessarily want a pause, am I right or wrong?


Sure, in dialogue, you'll see ellipses and dashes used to show pauses or being cut off.  But you'll also see them in action/description lines used for various effects.

You'll also see exclamation points used for shouting, which is correct.  When you see them in action/description lines, it's a mistake, IMO, unless it's used with a sound effect.

Otherwise, punctuation should remain constant.


Quoted from Gary Manson
In answer to your question about my logline and first page, yes, I do see mistakes, which I will rectify.

My whole point is, I thought you were a bit abrupt, in your initial comment. I have read two of your scripts today and found, what I consider to be, mistakes but I carried on reading them because I was interested in the script as a whole and what you were writing about.

I don't mind comments about my work, as long as it is constructive. That's how we learn.


We all make mistakes form time to time.  My point is that many times, the writer doesn't realize he's making a mistake.

You read 2 of mine?  Nice.  You should post feedback.  You should always post feedback when you read a script, as it will buy you credibility and more peeps will read and comment on your work.

Writers need to develop a thick skin and understand that everyone is different in how they go about their feedback.  Personally, I tell it like it is/how I see it.  I don't pull my punches.  I can be brutally honest, but it's meant to help, and I hope you understand.

Take care, bro.
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Gary Manson
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Thanks, Jake, I have gotten so flustered with it all, that I know I have made some stupid mistakes. I haven't got a clue where John came from, I've sorted that out now. Shawn should have been Jack, big mistake, thanks for pointing that out too. I will work on the slugs.

Thank you very much for your comments and help.

Cheers
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Gary Manson
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Jeff,

I do know I have made stupid mistakes and I'm trying to rectify them.

Yes I have read two of your scripts and I like them both, I will leave feedback as soon as I sort my script out.

You certainly have made me get a better understanding of the importance of punctuation, and for that I thank you.

Cheers
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ghost and_ghostie gal
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Quoted from Gary Manson
as soon as I sort my script out.


Should i hold off on posting my notes?

Ghostie


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LC
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PM'd you Gazza.

....

Hey Ghostie, how are you?! Always good to see you about.


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Gary Manson
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Hi, Ghostwriter, yeah if you would hold off a bit, I am in the process of going through it again.
Should be done later today.

Cheers

Gary
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Gary Manson
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Hi, Libby, thank you very much, you have been very helpful in your PM. I am working on it today.

The point you made, regarding scenes, makes so much sense and I know it will help tremendously. By the end of the day, I am hoping the script will read a lot better.

Once again many thanks.

Gary
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LC
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Sent you two PMs just in case you logged out before seeing the first. No need to respond if you got both. Lots of  great ideas and vibe in this. Look forward to the next draft.


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Gary Manson
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Hi, everyone, I don't know if I'm putting this in the right place or not, but I have just uploaded my second draft of my second script titled: Manikin.

I would love some feedback, and or comments.

Cheers

Gazza
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Dreamscale
Posted: November 21st, 2016, 11:52am Report to Moderator
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Gary, sorry to say, but still loaded with problems and mistakes, including use of commas, unfilmables, orphans, and awkward writing.

I'm not sure what your opening 5 line passage is even supposed to be.  Is it a SUPER?  If so, you have to say so, but this isn't going to work as a SUPER, so I'm unclear.

"simulation technician officer" - this is an unfilmable, as there's no way anyone watching a filmed version would know this - it's simply you, the writer, telling us.

I'm assuming the "good looking young man" is Rick's dead son, but since Rick is only 35, I'm wondering how old his son was when he died - meaning, it's highly unlikely he was a "young man"...more probably a boy/kid/teen/etc.

"beams into the camera" - Huh?  What camera?

You're missing commas throughout and need to study up on how to use them.

Turn off the "CONTINUED" in your software on the tops and bottoms of each page - you don't want or need this.
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Gary Manson
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Hi, Jeff, Sorry to say but yes there are still errors, which I will work on now.

Yes, you're right about the passage, I have removed that.
You are also correct where I put OFFICER; I have removed that too.

Bobby is Rick's brother, not his son, mentioned on page 8.

Where I have put good a looking young man beams into the camera,
it's (BOBBY) in the photo beaming into the camera. If you didn't get that,
I guess I should change it.

I have also turned off CONTINUED; I wasn't aware that was a, NO, NO.

Thank you for pointing these issues out, I will get there eventually.
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RichardR
Posted: November 21st, 2016, 1:17pm Report to Moderator
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Some notes.

There are multiple English errors in this version.  I think you might find a good writer who can help you with editing.  No one will take you seriously if you can't turn a correct sentence.

Storywise, this one is all over the place.  I think you need to rethink just how you want to tell this one.  Basically, one brother finds a way to transfer himself to a manikin.  The other brother is so connected he dreams or sees what the manikin does.  OK,  I'll buy that.  It might help to make them twins.  Twins sometimes have special connections.   So, distill this one down to the necessary scenes.  Rick empties the locker.  His co-worker loads the wrong firmware, getting Bobby's essence.  Rick has a problem with Shawn, but Bobby had a bigger problem.  Dump anything that doesn't drive the story.  

Last note about dialogue.  Generally, the only rule is that the dialogue is readable and actable.  The formal rules of English don't govern dialogue.  Spelling can be nonstandard; punctuation can be nonstandard.  Dialogue is for the ear, not the page.  If you want a character to run on and on without stop over many topics as fast as possible, write it that way.  The real key to dialogue is that it has to advance the plot and it should work on several levels, reinforcing the theme and revealing character.

Best
Richard
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Gary Manson
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Hi, Richard, thanks for your comments, you made some good points.
I do have a question, what do you mean when you say
"Storywise this one is all over the place."

Cheers
Gary
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RichardR
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Let's just start at the beginning.  If you're going to use the lab changing room, why open at home?  Start in the changing room, get the info you need--bro's dead--and get out.  And while we're in the changing room, why not intro Shawn at this point.  Same info, they don't get along, but no need for a whole new scene.  

And if the manikin isn't ready for testing, what is Rick doing in the room with it?  

Then Rick has to go back and clean out the locker?  

So, think about how this might work.  Rick isn't there to work.  He's there to clean out the locker.  he runs into STeve who says the manikin will be ready in the morning.  He runs into Shawn who, while he's sympathetic, wants Rick back at work.  After all, the manikin needs to be calibrated.  There's conflict, but Rick says he'll be back.

Home where you intro Bobby, the dead guy.  Rick has a dream.

Drop the scene with Jack as that's fluff.  Jack doesn't do anything.

I don't know if it's cricket to insert Rick sleeping in the middle of a dream sequence--unless Rick is part of the dream?

And we get an explanation from Steve.  Why would Rick ask if the cops were interested in him?  

The vital signs are a nice touch, but in a place that is so secure, there would be cameras everywhere.  Mani would never get away with what he did.  Just sayin'

The flashback with Bobby seems like overkill.  Why not imply this stuff throughout the story.  They all know Bobby heard voices, but no one really worried, did they?

And the cleaning lady?  Really?  Was Bobby a pervert as well as a killer?  Can't you give Bobby another enemy to get rid of?

And then, Rick manages to smuggle out a life-size manikin.  Does that seem probable?  In a secure place full of cameras?

You have a decent idea.  Somehow, this guy's messed up brother managed to download his being into a manikin, and the manikin becomes the killing machine Bobby always wanted to be.  It would be a nice touch if you dump a lot of stuff and manage to put Rick in the spot where he has to kill his own brother--in manikin form.  Or if you're especially dark, Rick is killing bobby for a second time.  And it doesn't get easier.

best
Richard
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Gary Manson
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Thank you, Richard, that has given me quite a lot to think about, so I'm going to sleep on it and approach it again tomorrow.

Cheers

Gary
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LC
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Quoted from RichardR
Some notes.There are multiple English errors in this version.  I think you might find a good writer who can help you with editing.  No one will take you seriously if you can't turn a correct sentence.


That's a bit strong imh. Yep, there are punctuation errors but I've read way worse and still the script has been picked up.

Let's encourage, not discourage. There's learning taking place and Gaz is new to it all. Gaz, the Internet is a great place to hone up on grammar, punctuation etc. Lots of tuition, right there if you find an education site on the basics i.e., when to use commas, periods etc. I think this is a matter of a beginner screenwriter just finding it hard to begin with and analyzing pauses where they aren't there.

A good idea is to read it aloud, or get a friend to read it out loud with you, see where the natural pauses and inflections are.

Also, no need to use semi-colons in dialogue. They're not needed.

Richard, you gave some very useful other advice I concur with.

Oh, and Jeffrey, that's my fault the bit with the 'beaming into the camera' was giving Gazza some advice - didn't think he'd use it verbatim - my fault though, sounds stupid. You shoulda' got it in the context of the rest of the story he was the brother though!  


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ghost and_ghostie gal
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Quoted from Gary Manson
so I'm going to sleep on it and approach it again tomorrow.


@Gary,

Stop overthinking. I see you tacked on a few pages.


Quoted Text
Does that seem probable?  In a secure place full of cameras?


Yea, it's plausible.  Blindspots come to mind, lots of facilities have them... especially If the facility isn't considered "TOP SECRET."   Or SECRET.   Gary, from what I gather, this is just a lab with a few cameras and a couple of security guards.

A Pedantic FYI.  I use to work Military Intelligence and had a TS clearance.

Maybe your lab is not as secure as it should be, or don't have so many cameras per se.

Heck, you could circumvent this conundrum altogether.   One example; when Mani comes to life, or whatever, it creates a power surge -- the cameras go offline for a bit.   BOOM!  There you go.  And (or or) what have you.

Point being, it's like I said.... don't overthink this.

Whatever path you choose, do not give up.  Failure is not an option.  Keep writing.

Ghostie


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LC
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Nice post, Ghostie, and great suggestion.

*Military Intelligence, eh? And TS. What a dark horse you are.



Revision History (1 edits)
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Gary Manson
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Thank you, Libby, Richard,

The points you've made, are encouraging, and I am in the process of re-writing now.

Richard, I have had a second look at your suggestions, and I must admit, it has opened up interesting opinions.

As far as the punctuation goes, I will learn.

Cheers

Gary
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Gary Manson
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Hi, Ghostie,  you are right, I am over thinking it all, but I will not give up, and I thank you for your suggestions and comments, I appreciate it.

Gary
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Quoted from LC
Nice post, Ghostie, and great suggestion.

*Military Intelligence, eh? And TS. What a dark horse you are.


Sorry, Gary, but I'm hi-jacking your thread.

Hey, Libby, thanks.  I tend to fall in love with my anonymity, but it's not so terrible to reveal a little about yourself.   Anyway, I'm always around, I just don't post much.

Ghostie


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Dreamscale
Posted: November 22nd, 2016, 9:14am Report to Moderator
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Gary, I'm going to throw 1 more thing in, and it's something I suggest to all new writers.

Practice with a very simple short.  3 or 4 characters, max, and 3 or 4 settings, max.  Shoot for 5 or 6 pages.  The goal with this exercise is your writing (grammar, structure, punctuation), dialogue, and technical screenwriting (Slugs, transitions, etc.).

You can lead a horse to water, but sometimes you can't make him jump over the damn fence, so try just getting on the beast, and walking around...then run, then lead him to a fence and see if he'll drink some water.     You get me?
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Gary Manson
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Hey, Jeff, yeah thanks for that. I wish I had done that in the beginning, but this seemed to, just build and build. Great tip for the next one, though.

I have knocked it down a few pages now, thanks to Richard's suggestions, and I think it reads a little better.

I'm still finding mistakes but will sort them out.

Cheers
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AmbitionIsKey
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Hi Gary,

So I read a few pages. Now I am by no means an expert to screenwriting but I've written quite a bit and read a few books, so anyways, these were my thoughts.

Your first paragraph you should consider revising. It's a lot of words.

Rick 35, Simulation Technician, casually dressed, unlocks his locker and removes a white lab coat. He shuffles it on.His gaze, lingering on a photograph attached to the door.The familial resemblance to Rick evident.

This could easily be shortened to:

RICK (35), casually dressed, takes his lab coat out of a locker and puts it on. He eyes a photograph of his family attached inside the door. He touches the photo, saddened.

- The above reads a lot more smoothly.
- Character names should always be in caps; so RICK not Rick. You have STEVE in caps so I assume you know this. Try to be as consistent as possible.
- Most people include ages in brackets, but you don't have to.
- Don't tell the audience that he is a Simulation Technician in the writing, they need to see it, figure it out.

This line read really weird: In walks SHAWN 48, Manager, shirt and tie man. He approachesRick, raising his: 'have you got a minute?'finger.

Maybe: In walks SHAWN, 48, shirt and tie man. He raises his fingers and approaches Rick.

Make sure to use a comma between the characters names and age. So it's SHAWN, 48 not SHAWN 48.

This paragraph reads fine:
A high acuity setting resembling an Intensive Care Unit, austere and brightly lit. A manikin lies motionless on a hospital issue bed. Patient monitoring equipment records its every move and vital statistics.

-- But make sure you space it all out. People hate large paragraphs. Standard rule of thumb is three lines of action per paragraph max. If anymore, take a new paragraph.
-- "A manikin lies motionless on a hospital issue bed" would read better as "A manikin lies on a hospital bed" - because you described the setting the reader already is imaging that type of area/space. Also "motionless" seems redundant, obviously it will be motionless, it's a manikin.

I noticed on the third page you forgot to include Steve's name at the top of his dialogue.

Shawn's "You've not heard the last of this" comes off a little cheesy, maybe consider changing?

-- I'm seeing you have a lot of issues of when and when not to use commas. I would consider reading over this whole thing and paying special attention to that.

I'm going to call it a day here, Gary. Nothing within the storyline is keeping me want to read on. I would consider trying to get to the punch sooner, rather than later. Are there any scenes you can cut out, shorten? Maybe when you upload a revised version I will come back and continue!

Hope these comments help! Good luck!



"No matter what you do, your job is to tell your story..."

Short scripts

GONE
(6 pages, drama/thriller)
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Grandma Bear
Posted: November 22nd, 2016, 10:52pm Report to Moderator
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Page 1.     I have no problem with you telling me Rick is a simulation technician. Helps me know his job. You need to RICK's name in uppercase letters though when you first introduce him.

Instead of writing Rick turns around sharply, you could write Rick snaps around. Shorter, which speeds up the read, but also avoids 'ly words and instead uses an active verb which helps with the visuals.

Page 2.     Dialogue with Shawn is repetitive, IMO.

Page 3.     You need to tell us who speaks into the headset...

Page 4.     You don't need an INSERT: Or BACK TO SCENE!
He takes out a CD with the title Cognitive Behavioral Therapy.

Trust me, anyone will know what that means and ALL directors will include that shot when filming. Writing INSERT and BACK TO SCENE just wastes a LOT of space.

Not really sure why Shawn seem so mad. Maybe I missed something, but it seems a bit out of left field.

Page 5.     I would skip the part where it says he calls Steve. Instead, just write, Rick takes out his phone. Pushes a button.

Then, when you start the next scene, it will be clear to us who he is calling, by writing something like this.

A cell phone rings. Steve picks it up, checks the screen, then answers.

INTERCUT is enough. You have already told us that it's Rick calling Steve.

Page 6.     Again, skip the INSERT and BACK TO SCENE. Just write, on the monitor...

Turn off the (cont'd). We're not stupid. We can see that it is Steve talking again. Not necesarily  wrong, but annoying clutter on the page.

Page 8.     If it is the same scene, just later, you can just write LATER. No need to make a repeat logline. Again, we're not stupid. Nor are filmmakers.  

You can also just type DREAM SEQUENCE.

Page 9.     I think you do need an END DREAM SEQUENCE though. Rick in bed dreaming is not part of the dream sequence.

What bottle does Rick grab? I thought the whiskey bottle was empty.

Page 12.   No need to describe Rick's house again.

The slug saying WEEK BEFORE should be an insert.

ONE WEEK EARLIER

INT: DOCTORS CONSULTATION ROOM - EVENING

Page 13.   No need to say it's BOBBY'S flashback. A simple FLASHBACK is enough.

Page 14.   INTERCUT is enough.

Story wise, I think I know what you're trying to do here. IMHO, this needs to be way shorter. If I had to watch a 17 minute short film, it better be awesome. This moves slow just to show us what? There's nothing really new here as far as the story goes. What you as the writer has to do, is figure out how to keep our attention. Make us want to turn the pages to see what happens next. Work on your suspense writing.

It's not that there's anything particular wrong with the story. You just have to learn how to write it in such a way that we want to stay with it, Want to know more.

My take.  


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Gary Manson
Posted: November 23rd, 2016, 5:29am Report to Moderator
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Hi, AmbitionIsKey, thank you for your comments and for pointing out some mistakes. I take what you say on board, and I have corrected the errors.

Cheers

Gary


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Gary Manson
Posted: November 23rd, 2016, 5:35am Report to Moderator
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Hi, Angry Bear, thank you for taking the time to read this through. You have pointed out some big mistakes that I have done, which I think I have now corrected. You are right, and it is still too long, and I am in the process of rewriting it now.

Many thanks.

Gary
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