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SimplyScripts Screenwriting Discussion Board    Unproduced Screenplay Discussion    Thriller Scripts  ›  Out with the Old Moderators: bert
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spesh2k
Posted: May 18th, 2013, 3:53pm Report to Moderator
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As they say here in the States - don't sweat the petty things... pet the sweaty things. Though I'd probably disregard the second part of that little phrase. But you know what I'm saying.


THE SUICIDE THEORY (Amazon Prime, 79% Rotten Tomatoes) https://www.imdb.com/title/tt2517300/?ref_=nm_knf_i1
RAGE (Coming Feb. 2021) https://www.imdb.com/title/tt8874764/?ref_=nm_knf_i2

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KevinLenihan
Posted: May 18th, 2013, 4:04pm Report to Moderator
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Yes. High Noon is melodramatic. Exactly. I have no idea what your previous post meant when you questioned my telling you that High Noon was indicative of the melodramatic style. I'll assume you are now withdrawing that objection, since your current position is merely repeating what I had said.

I did not say High Noon was overly melodramatic. What I did say was how it could have been made so. For example, having the marshal sobbing in every other scene and bemoaning his situation with overwrought dialogue.

As High Noon was made = melodramatic

Had they included more emotional outbursts and sentimental music = overly melodramatic.

Would you just be better off saying overly dramatic? Well, that is the question, isn't it?

And here's the thing: if you say our alternative version of High Noon is overly dramatic, you are leaving out information. You are not recognizing that the film aimed to be filled with exaggerated drama for effect.

If you say this alt High Noon is overly melodramatic, you are recognizing that exaggerated drama was the goal, but adding that it went too far. It went beyond the melodrama they were shooting for.
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DustinBowcot
Posted: May 18th, 2013, 4:08pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from spesh2k
Hey Dustin, just saying this to help you out man, you're a solid writer, and overall a stand-up guy (though it may not seem that way through this thread) - but producers and filmmakers DO roam these pages, and when they see a bloated thread, they tend to get curious. And the way this thread has blown up, it doesn't exactly depict you in a positive light. What I'm saying, through experience, is that things don't always go as planned - someone may like your script, but it may not fit their slate. But that same someone may hire you, based on the strength of that script, to write something else for them. But if you seem hard to work with, they may just move on to the next writer. And simplyscripts.com isn't the only place to look for writers. There's millions of us out there who work just as hard and are just as talented.

Whether you're right or someone else is wrong, you should probably just take the high road, respectfully agree to disagree and do what writers do - write.

Do whatever you think you need to do with this script and move on to the next project. Which I'm sure you're doing, but imagine how much more work you'd get done if you weren't giving a constant rebuttal to every bit of criticism you receive on this thread alone? (half of it really doesn't have anything to do with the script)

And if you question the credibility of the people reading and reviewing your script, take it to a professional for coverage (probably someone who is familiar with British cinema).

Cheers,

Michael


Today I have done a draft on The Greatest Escape, also a draft on the 3rd part of my Drama. I wouldn't post here instead of writing. In fact it's almost my bedtime. I'm up at 0530 walking the dogs... I've got an American Bulldog and a Boxer. Just in case you're interested. Then I have some work to do, then I can start writing at 0900 till around 1500. I then also write from 1900 till bedtime quite a lot of the time.

Thanks for looking out spesh, i appreciate it. I'm cool with people that are cool, even when I disagree with them. I'm not going to hide who I am... that's fake. I'm not arguing against the criticism but the accusation of being 'overly melodramatic' whatever that means. that's been most of the argument.

Anyway I'm tired. I vowed last night that I would not argue anymore about melodrama... leave them to their ignorance... but, alas. So, I'm going to give it another go tonight.

I think I may be able to spend the next couple of days on this script. I'll change up what I want to change, for the most part the script is great. runs like a dream. I may get more inventive with the bar scene at the beginning, just to be original. Cut out the boring PO scene... and make a couple of other changes.

Honestly though... the days where I cared what other people think are long over. take it or leave it.
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Ledbetter
Posted: May 18th, 2013, 4:08pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from spesh2k
As they say here in the States - don't sweat the petty things... pet the sweaty things. Though I'd probably disregard the second part of that little phrase. But you know what I'm saying.


Ha!!!

Can I use that?

Shawn.....><
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spesh2k
Posted: May 18th, 2013, 4:16pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted Text
Ha!!!

Can I use that?

Shawn.....><


I thought it was a common phrase, haha, but yeah, by all means. It's a great saying, I think everybody should use it.

-- Michael


THE SUICIDE THEORY (Amazon Prime, 79% Rotten Tomatoes) https://www.imdb.com/title/tt2517300/?ref_=nm_knf_i1
RAGE (Coming Feb. 2021) https://www.imdb.com/title/tt8874764/?ref_=nm_knf_i2

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KevinLenihan
Posted: May 18th, 2013, 8:43pm Report to Moderator
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Guest
Posted: May 18th, 2013, 8:58pm Report to Moderator
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Why is this thread at 8 pages?  

Why are people arguing over something that should have its own thread?  

Why are people even arguing about it at all?  lol

I mean, the actual script itself, is hardly on display here.

And when it is - rarely - the author shoots down everybody's opinions/thoughts - most of the time.

"I don't think much of your opinion" is a quote from the author himself.

Also, his "days where he cared what other people think are long over."

It's kind of aggravating seeing this on the portal constantly.

You don't submit a script on this board for any other reason except.....
to see what people think of your script.  If you don't like that fact, don't submit it.
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J.S.
Posted: May 18th, 2013, 9:53pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from DustinBowcot

Not sure what your point is... one of those nouns is: Capacity. I said that ability and capability are the same thing. Never mentioned capacity at all.


Actually you are right... for once. Impressive. But still... it's a melodrama. Whether its over-melodramatic or not is more debatable in my mind.


Quoted from DustinBowcot

I didn't realise I was getting personal, it was just a guess derived from your obvious lack of compassion for women or children.


Haha I don't see it. I don't see anything that I wrote could possibly be construed to mean that I lack compassion for women or children. I lack interest in your characters and think what you wrote in the beginning is funny and I can't take it seriously. You want to force me to sympathize with something that ridiculous? Right in the beginning where I don't know anything about your characters? Yeah, okay. Uh-huh. Airtight logic, Dustin.


Quoted from DustinBowcot

You weren't concerned about the baby, you simply mentioned the gore factor.


Who the hell would be concerned about the baby, Dustin?? It's on the third page, dude? This isn't live news coverage. It's freakin' fiction! Get a grip on reality. I don't care about your characters and what happens to them that early in the script. Plain and simple. Obviously you believe everything you see on screen. Sorry I don't share that mindset.


Quoted from DustinBowcot

You're not allowing your emotions in. So that tells me you're probably lonely. Maybe I'm wrong... I certainly wasn't trying to be personal... but now that I can see I've hit a sore spot, I'll leave it alone.


Yes, you're right, Dustin. I'm not allowing my emotions in because I could care less about one dimensional characters in the first three pages that get massacred. Alternatively, tears must have been streaming down your face when you wrote that tragic, tragic scene.


Quoted from DustinBowcot

Not ticked off by anything you say mate. I don't think much of your opinion so it's water off a duck's back. I actually agreed on some parts being overly dramatic so I'm not sure why you feel your remarks would be hurtful. Obviously, now I can see, that was your intent. LOL.


Oh you're not? Well, that's good then. I got the impression when I mentioned something about it being over-melodramatic, I don't know, some 80 odd posts ago and you haven't given up arguing. You became over-melodramatic with things such as:

"I'm guessing you've been at this game a long time, James... hence your obvious aggression against an amazing script, penned in just 8 days by a relative newb."

What game? What aggression? I've been calm the whole time, aside from the occasional bursts of laughter you've given me Honestly, Dustin, half the time I don't know what you're talking about.

" Guys just out of jail... but anyway... you don't want to hear about REAL EXPERIENCES... you just want to hear Shiite that sounds real to you. Which is in regards to this genre, a combination of everything you've seen and watched on TV. You've never been homeless or a criminal... you can't even imagine, at all, what it is like... so for you to have an opinion on what is realistic and what isn't is quite laughable."

You're not ticked off here? Language seems to suggest otherwise. Saying for me "to have an opinion on what is realistic and what isn't is quite laughable" is not you being ticked off? Wow, if that's the case, I'm surprised this is how you converse when you're calm. Most people in the modern and civilized world might interpret that differently, FYI.

You're just overly sensitive, Dustin. This has been evidenced to me by nearly all of your posts here.
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Grandma Bear
Posted: May 18th, 2013, 10:45pm Report to Moderator
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"This is the thread that never ends.
Yes, it goes on and on my friends.
Some people started arguing about some silly little thing , not knowing what it was,
And they'll continue arguing it forever just because
This is the thread that never ends. . . ."




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Grandma Bear  -  May 18th, 2013, 11:12pm
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danbotha
Posted: May 19th, 2013, 12:20am Report to Moderator
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Quoted from Grandma Bear
"This is the thread that never ends.
Yes, it goes on and on my friends.
Some people started arguing about some silly little thing , not knowing what it was,
And they'll continue arguing it forever just because
This is the thread that never ends. . . ."



She can do poetry as well! Add that to your resume


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DustinBowcot
Posted: May 19th, 2013, 12:33am Report to Moderator
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Quoted from KevinLenihan


I'm certainly not going to argue about the word any more. When you said that you had articles I got a little excited... was expecting to see some peer reviewed papers. Not sure why a professor would write a whole paper on the correct usage of the word melodrama but there you go. Anyway, all you have produced are articles written by nobodies.

OK, maybe there are a few other people mixing up overly dramatic and overly melodramatic.... it's an easy thing to do, particularly when using words all the time. Words like overly dramatic and melodramatic can sometimes merge... it isn't the first time and it won't be the last.

What I need is a professor of English... in my opinion even if it is possible to add overly to something that is already overly done it is poor grammar to place the words together. I imagine that pretty soon we're going to have films that are overly thrilling and overly horrifying too.
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DustinBowcot
Posted: May 19th, 2013, 1:00am Report to Moderator
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To anyone that is posting in this thread simply to complain about the length of it... why?



Quoted from J.S.


Actually you are right... for once. Impressive. But still... it's a melodrama. Whether its over-melodramatic or not is more debatable in my mind.


What's a melodrama James? You've lost me. You still talking about the first three pages or have you changed your mind again?

Of course I'm right. So when I originally wrote the word 'capable' you read 'capacity'? You actually corrected me on the words able and capable... then when you try to prove me wrong you picked a different word entirely. That goes beyond confusion.





Quoted from J.S.
Haha I don't see it. I don't see anything that I wrote could possibly be construed to mean that I lack compassion for women or children. I lack interest in your characters and think what you wrote in the beginning is funny and I can't take it seriously. You want to force me to sympathize with something that ridiculous? Right in the beginning where I don't know anything about your characters? Yeah, okay. Uh-huh. Airtight logic, Dustin.


Are you gay?

It's what I do... I take little bits of information and make stories out of it. I don't know if I'm right... as I told you, it's just a guess based on things you've said to me, words you choose, your general attitude. I actually don't mean to be offensive. There isn't a thing wrong with lacking empathy for women or children, nor is there a thing wrong with being gay. That's not what I mean.




Quoted from J.S.
Who the hell would be concerned about the baby, Dustin?? It's on the third page, dude? This isn't live news coverage. It's freakin' fiction! Get a grip on reality. I don't care about your characters and what happens to them that early in the script. Plain and simple. Obviously you believe everything you see on screen. Sorry I don't share that mindset.


You can't get to know a baby. Anybody seeing a baby would be horrified at seeing its hand cut off. I am and I wrote it. Kids never get hurt in my scripts... this is a one off. The actor only has one hand and I decided to do it as a baby because it wouldn't hurt as bad as if he was older.
Yeah I do feel for shit like that... in fact I would have to turn my head away. When I watch or read something I'm there to enjoy and believe it from the get go. I don't go in with the eye of a critic... that's the difference between you and I, obviously.



Quoted from J.S.
Yes, you're right, Dustin. I'm not allowing my emotions in because I could care less about one dimensional characters in the first three pages that get massacred. Alternatively, tears must have been streaming down your face when you wrote that tragic, tragic scene.


Almost. I have to admit that when Feliks mouths he love his wife, a little tear did form in my eye. For me it's real when I write it... very much so, yeah.






Quoted from J.S.
Oh you're not? Well, that's good then. I got the impression when I mentioned something about it being over-melodramatic, I don't know, some 80 odd posts ago and you haven't given up arguing. You became over-melodramatic with things such as:

"I'm guessing you've been at this game a long time, James... hence your obvious aggression against an amazing script, penned in just 8 days by a relative newb."


I smoke a lot of weed James, I'm pretty much detached from everything. I like arguing and to me that comment was just me bragging. You clearly struggle with the English language if you're calling that melodramatic.




Quoted from J.S.
What game? What aggression? I've been calm the whole time, aside from the occasional bursts of laughter you've given me Honestly, Dustin, half the time I don't know what you're talking about.


The game of screenwriting, James... look, this having-to-explain-everything-to-you thing is getting a little boring. It just goes straight over your head anyway.




Quoted from J.S.
" Guys just out of jail... but anyway... you don't want to hear about REAL EXPERIENCES... you just want to hear Shiite that sounds real to you. Which is in regards to this genre, a combination of everything you've seen and watched on TV. You've never been homeless or a criminal... you can't even imagine, at all, what it is like... so for you to have an opinion on what is realistic and what isn't is quite laughable."

You're not ticked off here? Language seems to suggest otherwise. Saying for me "to have an opinion on what is realistic and what isn't is quite laughable" is not you being ticked off? Wow, if that's the case, I'm surprised this is how you converse when you're calm. Most people in the modern and civilized world might interpret that differently, FYI.


So telling you that because you have never been homeless, jobless but gotta eat regardless means you can't have an opinion on what it is like to be that way... is me being angry? Saying that something is quite 'laughable' means one is angry?



Quoted from J.S.
You're just overly sensitive, Dustin.


I think it's pretty clear who the sensitive one is here, eh ducky
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J.S.
Posted: May 19th, 2013, 1:16am Report to Moderator
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Quoted from DustinBowcot
To anyone that is posting in this thread simply to complain about the length of it... why?




What's a melodrama James? You've lost me. You still talking about the first three pages or have you changed your mind again?

Of course I'm right. So when I originally wrote the word 'capable' you read 'capacity'? You actually corrected me on the words able and capable... then when you try to prove me wrong you picked a different word entirely. That goes beyond confusion.






Are you gay?

It's what I do... I take little bits of information and make stories out of it. I don't know if I'm right... as I told you, it's just a guess based on things you've said to me, words you choose, your general attitude. I actually don't mean to be offensive. There isn't a thing wrong with lacking empathy for women or children, nor is there a thing wrong with being gay. That's not what I mean.





You can't get to know a baby. Anybody seeing a baby would be horrified at seeing its hand cut off. I am and I wrote it. Kids never get hurt in my scripts... this is a one off. The actor only has one hand and I decided to do it as a baby because it wouldn't hurt as bad as if he was older.
Yeah I do feel for shit like that... in fact I would have to turn my head away. When I watch or read something I'm there to enjoy and believe it from the get go. I don't go in with the eye of a critic... that's the difference between you and I, obviously.




Almost. I have to admit that when Feliks mouths he love his wife, a little tear did form in my eye. For me it's real when I write it... very much so, yeah.







I smoke a lot of weed James, I'm pretty much detached from everything. I like arguing and to me that comment was just me bragging. You clearly struggle with the English language if you're calling that melodramatic.





The game of screenwriting, James... look, this having-to-explain-everything-to-you thing is getting a little boring. It just goes straight over your head anyway.





So telling you that because you have never been homeless, jobless but gotta eat regardless means you can't have an opinion on what it is like to be that way... is me being angry? Saying that something is quite 'laughable' means one is angry?




I think it's pretty clear who the sensitive one is here, eh ducky


Haha yikes, that really hit you hard, didn't it. Have fun, Dustin.
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Guest
Posted: May 19th, 2013, 1:18am Report to Moderator
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I have to agree with JS here.  There's nothing to feel for these characters in the very beginning of the script.  We have no idea who they are.  We don't care if they get killed.  The baby getting it's hand chopped off doesn't invoke emotion.  It invokes a feeling of someone going for a cheap shock just for the sake of shock because he can't invoke anything else from his writing or story.  I read 40 pages and not once did any of it -- the story or the characters -- pack an emotional punch.  It felt like a poor, cheap imitation of a Guy Ritchie film.  We follow around a bunch of paper-thin characters who come across as if they couldn't find their own ass with two hands and a flashlight, let alone a suitcase with two million dollars and seven kis of blow...  If you're gonna write something that's been done a "million" times, you have to put a different spin on things, and you have to really work on your characters so we FEEL for them, so your story packs that emotional punch that makes us CARE about what happens to them.  It's not happening here.  We don't care that it's Alexander's "last fucking chance" because he's just the run-of-the-mill, same-old-same-old, one dimensional thug.  I could care less if he makes it.  There's no connection with him as a character, and I could care less if he exacts revenge.  I think of "King of New York" with Christopher Walken.  At the start of the film, he gets out of jail a changed man, and finds out the only thing that changed about the streets is that it's a whole lot tougher and unrelenting as ever.  He wants to raise money to keep a hospital open in a crappy neighborhood, but is met with obstacles from criminals - and even cops - because of his past reputation.  The writing, the story, combined with Walken's amazing acting talent, make us desperately want him to achieve his goals, and survive the streets.  That's a story I connected with, and recommend.  As it stands, "Out With the Old" just comes across as a poorly written story with no emotional punch and paper-thin characters.
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spesh2k
Posted: May 19th, 2013, 1:25am Report to Moderator
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I don't know about everybody else, but this thread is getting a little bit overly melodramatic


THE SUICIDE THEORY (Amazon Prime, 79% Rotten Tomatoes) https://www.imdb.com/title/tt2517300/?ref_=nm_knf_i1
RAGE (Coming Feb. 2021) https://www.imdb.com/title/tt8874764/?ref_=nm_knf_i2

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