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I decided to delve into this a little bit more than 5 pages, just out of curiosity. Here's some notes I took down.
Page 5 - Who are these girls that Oddball produces the E for? They suddenly appear out of nowhere -- are they partying teens, sleazy hookers? I'll assume partying teens for now, but how come they don't get a proper introduction (all caps)? The doorman does, and I assume he doesn't do anything besides being the doorman. Why don't the girls follow after Oddball? He just gave them E -- you'd think they'd follow him all night expecting free drugs or something. Now that I think about it, E goes for, what, ten dollars a pill? That's twenty bucks he just blew on some chicks that aren't even -- at the very least -- doing him sexual favors. For being pretty far down the food chain, these guys don't act like it.
Page 7 - "Just look away and this nightmare will be over." Definitely another line of dialogue you have to cut.
Page 9 - "Danny throws a couple of lines down next to the sink and snorts them both." Lines of what? And why is he throwing it? Is he mad all of a sudden? What's next to the sink, air? Danny snorts lines through the air. Instead of using a sink, why don't you just say "Danny pulls out a bag of [drug of choice], sticks a straw in it, snorts."
Page 19 - I'm assuming what Danny was snorting on page 9 is now cocaine. I also take notice that not one of your characters know how to snort some blow. They keep getting it all over their noses and have to wipe it off. Don't they ever use straws or rolled up dollar bills? However, you refer to a "special snorting tube" on this page that seems to appear out of thin air. It's mentioned after Oddball snorts his coke.
Page 24 - You might have to butcher some scenes. As it stands, in the first 5 pages, you have a baby having it's hand chopped off (followed later by several scenes of drug use) and then, here, you have two guys penetrating a girl orally and vaginally, at the same time -- all within the first half hour. You might be bordering on an X/NC-17 rating here.
Page 31 - Oddball should be bouncing off the walls now with all the coke he's been shoveling up his nose, yet he's pretty serene.
Page 37 - Two million dollars and 7 keys are not fitting in one simple briefcase.
Page 38 - Oddball is now finally being described as wired.
Page 40-42 - The fact that Delroy hasn't taken Johnny out back and put three in his head already doesn't ring true for me. I'm going to stop here, but the flashback with a "contract being signed" intrigues me. And not in a good way. These guys are gangsters and they are using force to have someone sign a paper to obtain property? I thought gangsters took whatever they wanted whenever they wanted by use of force. Since when do they sign papers asking for anything? This doesn't ring true for me, either. You also stated earlier that this is based around small-timers, but so far this seems like a bunch of big-timers to me. Small-timers sell dime bags of weed so they can have enough money to pay for gas. They don't throw around two million dollars and pounds upon pounds of blow.
Maybe I should have used STV instead -- straight-to-video.
Nope, STV would have confused me too. Sounds like a US tv station to me. I say straight to DVD. But even if you put STDVD I still would have been confused.
Either way, they're coming across as gangsters in those first few pages.
Problem is -- they don't sound like gangsters -- whether they are from London or not.
Do you just read certain keywords? I didn't say they are not gangsters, I said they are not part of the mob. Also your only experience in regards to how gangsters sound, by your own admission, is from reading books and watching TV. You have no idea what's actually real... let alone how people in the UK do things.
Well, I already pointed out examples in my first post of why I think it's not natural. Maybe again?
INT. KNIGHT'S ARMS - NIGHT
The young black men walk into the bar. Feliks' face changes to one of contempt.
FELIKS Where is your respect?
A tall, powerfully built man named DELROY (1, a mouthful of gold teeth, removes his scarf.
DELROY We're at war Feliks.
FELIKS You talk shit. We are not at war.
DELROY As of now.
FELIKS This is my son's party. If you wanted to hit me you could have done it any time.
DELROY I did choose any time. I chose now.
Rival gang #1 just crashed rival gang #2's party and rival #2 is just gonna chit-chat about it? I cringed when I read this. The guns should have been out first thing soon as they walked in the door. Instead, they exchange words with each other that just sounds like a scene out of a really bland STV-movie.
In real situations where people are shot in a public place there are often words first. I don't like the last bit of dialogue from Delroy though, that is a bit cheesy.
And why are these guys entering a bar to do their dirty. Aren't they worried about law-enforcement and the possibility of a live-bug somewhere in that joint, being caught on tape trying to assassinate someone? Or maybe there's surveillance across the street a few windows up?
PO If you continue being aggressive you will leave me no choice but to call the police.
How about instead "Watch your tone, jerk-off."
Because we don't say jerk-off in the UK we say wanker... and a PO wouldn't say that to somebody just out of prison. What works in the US, doesn't work here.
I'm sorry, dude... but there are a lot of scripts that have been posted on here about mobsters/gangsters/mob/gangs -- and I couldn't get through more than 5 pages because 1-the writing needs work (or some flash, style,etc) 2- the characters seem unrealistic 3- dialogue is terrible, doesn't feel "real"
Of course, I have stated I am not a professional screenwriter, so you can take it or leave it.
But there was another member that felt the same way as me, so that's two people, and the rest seem to just be talking about how many days it should take to write a screenplay instead of giving you input on the script itself... so maybe you should consider some of my comments and sleep on it.
You're seriously the last person I would ever take dialogue advice from. Thanks.
I'm just looking at the link-in between Peacock and Danny - it sounds like he's just the DJ, but I'm wondering if there's more between them - and if there isn' then maybe there needs to be? Peacock (Johnny) gets Danny's compliance pretty easy - maybe the Oddball/Danny exchange needs to show that this is Danny's big chance, like he's been waiting for this for years - it's just that him taking the brief-case is quite central, and I'm not sure of his motivation at this stage.
Yeah - certainly shorten the following Alexander scene in the doorway - maybe even intercut with Danny once or twice.
I'm not totally getting the relationship between Alexander and Danny at this stage, and I feel that this needs to be cleared up - is this deliberate? I'm not too sure it works - you don't specify until p.18, and I don't now if this is a tactic or not.
I liked Danny's 'course it will.' line. We all know this is going to go tits-up, and we can just sit back and watch it.
For some reason, this didn't sit true for me:
Alexander hands Oddball the case but he refuses totouch it. ODDBALL Explain
Maybe:
Alexander offers Oddball the case. Oddball doesn't shift.
ALEXANDER (It's) From the club.
&
Oddball's face changes to one of instant understanding and he snatches the case.
Oddball gets it, and grabs the case. (?).
Delroy's £2k is skipped over a little ...? And there's a chance of a little play here - we don't really know it's £2k, so maybe have Delroy say it - Shotterz question it - Delroy point out it's the 'market value'? Far as I understand it's £10k a hit, but like I'm saying, values drop??
How come you want to cut Aggro? I think he works well as a contrast.
p.30:
where Johnny is waiting, anxiously pacing up
Johnny anxiously paces up ... etc
Stopping here for now ... nice plot twist.
Yep those suggestions are excellent, thanks. All of them. Thanks. I could read those things over and over again before realising a quicker way to cut them down, maybe... so thanks.
The thing with Aggro is that he can't really play a part unless I use him as the pivotal character I wanted him to be. I suppose he could play some part but he'd be pretty superfluous. As you get to the end you'll realise why he needs to be dropped I think.
In regards to hits these days they are cheaper. I don't think anyone actually gets paid anymore, lol. These days just put a gun in a 14 year olds hands and say... that one there. They'll do it for the prestige. But yeah point taken, it is a little cheap for the purposes of a film like this.
I decided to delve into this a little bit more than 5 pages, just out of curiosity. Here's some notes I took down.
Page 5 - Who are these girls that Oddball produces the E for? They suddenly appear out of nowhere -- are they partying teens, sleazy hookers? I'll assume partying teens for now, but how come they don't get a proper introduction (all caps)?
Now that I think about it, E goes for, what, ten dollars a pill? That's twenty bucks he just blew on some chicks that aren't even -- at the very least -- doing him sexual favors. For being pretty far down the food chain, these guys don't act like it.
No mate... pills go for around a quid a pill around here. Pure MDMA around 40 quid (that's Sterling) a G if you buy on the streets. Knowing someone could get you it a little cheaper. Can't stand the stuff myself. I took a G one day and was ill for a week. Thought I was going to die... seriously. Couple of pills isn't much, certainly not worth hooking yourself out for.
Page 9 - "Danny throws a couple of lines down next to the sink and snorts them both." Lines of what? And why is he throwing it? Is he mad all of a sudden? What's next to the sink, air? Danny snorts lines through the air. Instead of using a sink, why don't you just say "Danny pulls out a bag of [drug of choice], sticks a straw in it, snorts."
Have you ever snorted straight out of a bag, mate? I have. And it's not a clever thing to do. It destroys your nose. I ended up having to try and blow it all out again, eyes pissing with water. That nostril is still knackered to this day.
I will add, that any producer in the UK will know exactly what throwing a couple of lines down will mean... also in regards to the sink. It all depends where it is filmed as to the description of that. Whatever happens to be handy. In most bars the sinks have marble surfaces next to them that are ideal for snorting off. Not that I do that kind of thing any more myself.
Page 19 - I'm assuming what Danny was snorting on page 9 is now cocaine. I also take notice that not one of your characters know how to snort some blow. They keep getting it all over their noses and have to wipe it off. Don't they ever use straws or rolled up dollar bills? However, you refer to a "special snorting tube" on this page that seems to appear out of thin air. It's mentioned after Oddball snorts his coke.
It depends how you snort the coke... when out and about it is faster to have it pre chopped, unless you buy it like that already, and pour it into the crook of your fist, but put your thumb inside the fist so you make a line. Depending on how your nostrils are it's quite easy to end up with it on your nose. You then use thumb and forefinger to wipe it away... look at them, if there's some there then wipe it on the gums.
Page 24 - You might have to butcher some scenes. As it stands, in the first 5 pages, you have a baby having it's hand chopped off (followed later by several scenes of drug use) and then, here, you have two guys penetrating a girl orally and vaginally, at the same time -- all within the first half hour. You might be bordering on an X/NC-17 rating here.
I'm going to stop here, but the flashback with a "contract being signed" intrigues me. And not in a good way. These guys are gangsters and they are using force to have someone sign a paper to obtain property? I thought gangsters took whatever they wanted whenever they wanted by use of force. Since when do they sign papers asking for anything? This doesn't ring true for me, either.
Ownership papers for the club. Criminals can't own anything... this is explained in the script. I'm not going to do it here.
You also stated earlier that this is based around small-timers, but so far this seems like a bunch of big-timers to me. Small-timers sell dime bags of weed so they can have enough money to pay for gas. They don't throw around two million dollars and pounds upon pounds of blow.
I didn't say small timers... what's wrong with you? I said guys lower down the scale. This film encompasses a few different levels but is based around guys lower down the scale. They're working for the big boys, that is explained in the script too.
And on that note, after reading 40 pages of your script, I won't continue after that.
You sound like you're pretty set on what you have, and any kind of input I offer will be of no use.
I won't waste any more of my time.
At least I read a good chunk of it... most people aren't even doing that.
They're talking about something totally different then what's going on IN your script, and not giving you any kind of input.
I did, and I feel like an ass for doing so.
You're an American, your input on this script will be of little benefit if you are going to throw accusations of poor dialogue when you have no idea how we speak. You then suggest a replacement that's just insane. We'd never say jerk-off here, never ever.
Have you ever had a meeting with a probation officer in the UK? Nope... but you give the benefit of your no-experience anyway. Same as with the realism aspect... you even suggest that you are well-versed because of what you have read and seen about The Mafia. You've even watched documentaries. Wow.
A mate of mine has said that you're doing it to wind me up... but I honestly think that you really believe you are right.
It would be like me going into your script and telling you how people wouldn't speak like that in the US... they'd speak like this: 'alright mate, how's it going? You still taking it up the gary?'
So then most people who comment on this script will be doing it for nothing because I guarantee you there aren't a lot of people from the UK on here.
But you must expect some kind of criticism... you're posting your script on a forum where people read and review your work.
Ok, your slang and lingo might be one thing. You got me there.... but to me the delivery of it is off.
OK, maybe that's a probation officer in the UK... regardless his dialogue sounds on the nose. OK, maybe you don't say "jerk off" over there, but it was a suggestion, an idea to make it less rigid.
I'm not doing this to "wind you up." I have been a member on here for years on and off, and never once have I ever done that to anybody.
I'm just taking a strong stance that your writing isn't great, and needs work.
You feel otherwise.
I guess we can agree to disagree.
If I was you, I'd ask people to start commenting on your script, and stop talking about Willy Wonka and Rocky Balboa. You have 4 pages here, and only 2 people other than me have commented on what you have written. This thread is getting more attention than it deserves.
Quoted from DustinBowcot
How do you know he didn't just sell it to them?
Oddball shoves his hand down the front of his trousers and fiddles around for a little bit before retrieving two ecstasy tablets. He places one onto each of the girls tongues and then leans in to kiss one of them.
Because nowhere in this description, does any selling happen. Oddball walks over, takes out pills, sticks it in their mouth, and walks into the club. For it to be a drug deal, the girls would have to offer him money. Nowhere is it clear or specific in your writing. Nothing before or after. He just gives 2 random girls pills and leaves.
So then most people who comment on this script will be doing it for nothing because I guarantee you there aren't a lot of people from the UK on here.
What's a lot? I've seen a few... which is enough for me. I also don't mind anyone from the US commenting, but if they're going to tell me how we speak here, when they have no idea... I'm going to take issue with that.
OK, maybe that's a probation officer in the UK... regardless his dialogue sounds on the nose. OK, maybe you don't say "jerk off" over there, but it was a suggestion, an idea to make it less rigid.
That is how a probation officer would speak here. It isn't on the nose at all and will be completely deleted anyway, so I'm not sure why I'm arguing about it.
I'm just taking a strong stance that your writing isn't great, and needs work.
You feel otherwise.
I guess we can agree to disagree.
No that's a different thing to what you are actually doing. You were telling me that my dialogue is poorly delivered because you have no experience in our slang or idioms. You're also telling me that gangsters don't act that way because you've seen it on American TV and read books about it.
If I was you, I'd ask people to start commenting on your script, and stop talking about Willy Wonka and Rocky Balboa. You have 4 pages here, and only 2 people other than me have commented on what you have written. This thread is getting more attention than it deserves.
I quite enjoyed the rocky and willy wonka conversations. I couldn't care less, tbh.
Oddball shoves his hand down the front of his trousers and fiddles around for a little bit before retrieving two ecstasy tablets. He places one onto each of the girls tongues and then leans in to kiss one of them.
Because nowhere in this description, does any selling happen. Oddball walks over, takes out pills, sticks it in their mouth, and walks into the club. For it to be a drug deal, the girls would have to offer him money. Nowhere is it clear or specific in your writing. Nothing before or after. He just gives 2 random girls pills and leaves.
This is just getting silly. The fact we don't see money exchanging is neither here nor there. Should I include a flashback with the scene showing the girls paying him earlier in the day while they were at granny's smoking weed?
I would like to get further into the script when I have time but I will just comment on the first three pages that I read.
I agree that the script reads quick.
I know reaper mentioned that your dialogue is not very strong or appears wooden and you two have been "discussing" that. Personally, I think your dialogue is over-melodramatic. I wouldn't go so far as to say its wooden, because I feel that it has emotion in it. It's just that it comes off as over-melodramatic to me.
"FELIKS How fucking dare you! How fucking... CRACK!"
I laughed here. Not sure if that's a good thing or not. But I did laugh.
Also my fear is that the over-melodramatic nature of the script makes me feel like this is going to be a film that is taking itself too seriously. The beginning had a certain TV show / Cable TV movie feel to it for me.
Again, I'd like to give the script a closer read when I have time but these are my initial thoughts.
I would like to get further into the script when I have time but I will just comment on the first three pages that I read.
I agree that the script reads quick.
I know reaper mentioned that your dialogue is not very strong or appears wooden and you two have been "discussing" that. Personally, I think your dialogue is over-melodramatic. I wouldn't go so far as to say its wooden, because I feel that it has emotion in it. It's just that it comes off as over-melodramatic to me.
"FELIKS How fucking dare you! How fucking... CRACK!"
I laughed here. Not sure if that's a good thing or not. But I did laugh.
Also my fear is that the over-melodramatic nature of the script makes me feel like this is going to be a film that is taking itself too seriously. The beginning had a certain TV show / Cable TV movie feel to it for me.
Again, I'd like to give the script a closer read when I have time but these are my initial thoughts.
-J.S.
JS... first of all you appear to be confusing overly dramatic with melodramatic. You can't really be overly melodramatic, you're either melodramatic or you aint.
I'll go with melodrama though... which is a real danger whenever writing a scene like this as I am aware. However, I don't feel that I have crossed that line in the piece of dialogue you mentioned. I agree that some of the rest of it does cross the line... but not here.
In regards to a film taking itself too seriously. This is the complete opposite. I feel that a baby having its hand cut off is a moment of high drama, and will shock most people. It would shock me. So I'll take the accusation of melodrama on the build up to that... however, this film certainly doesn't take itself too seriously as you would know were you able to manage reading more than 3 pages in one go.
I have stated that I wrote this film purely for entertainment value. Not to win any oscars. How is that in any way shape or form attempting to make a film that takes itself too seriously? Pull the other one, son.
JS... first of all you appear to be confusing overly dramatic with melodramatic. You can't really be overly melodramatic, you're either melodramatic or you aint.
I'll go with melodrama though... which is a real danger whenever writing a scene like this as I am aware. However, I don't feel that I have crossed that line in the piece of dialogue you mentioned. I agree that some of the rest of it does cross the line... but not here.
In regards to a film taking itself too seriously. This is the complete opposite. I feel that a baby having its hand cut off is a moment of high drama, and will shock most people. It would shock me. So I'll take the accusation of melodrama on the build up to that... however, this film certainly doesn't take itself too seriously as you would know were you able to manage reading more than 3 pages in one go.
I have stated that I wrote this film purely for entertainment value. Not to win any oscars. How is that in any way shape or form attempting to make a film that takes itself too seriously? Pull the other one, son.
No Dustin, I meant overly melodramatic. As in, it's too melodramatic, especially in the tight space of 3 pages that I read. Like I said, I'll get further into it, and I'll explain this in further detail with specific examples for you. I'm unable to at the moment, but I would like to because it appears to be a quick read.
Also, in my opinion, when a film is melodramatic it almost always takes itself too seriously. 9 out of 10 times they go hand in hand. Again, I'll give you specific examples and a full explanation at a later time. And I disagree that this film is for "purely entertainment value" as I don't think melodramatic films are very entertaining. Now, that doesn't mean what I read wasn't entertaining. There was some entertainment in it, but I'd like to leave that for my more detailed response.
-J.S.
P.S.
Around what page would you say Act I ends and Act II begins?
No Dustin, I meant overly melodramatic. As in, it's too melodramatic, especially in the tight space of 3 pages that I read. Like I said, I'll get further into it, and I'll explain this in further detail with specific examples for you. I'm unable to at the moment, but I would like to because it appears to be a quick read.
Also, in my opinion, when a film is melodramatic it almost always takes itself too seriously. 9 out of 10 times they go hand in hand. Again, I'll give you specific examples and a full explanation at a later time. And I disagree that this film is for "purely entertainment value" as I don't think melodramatic films are very entertaining. Now, that doesn't mean what I read wasn't entertaining. There was some entertainment in it, but I'd like to leave that for my more detailed response.
-J.S.
P.S.
Around what page would you say Act I ends and Act II begins?
Act 1 ends on page 24. Do you really need to know when Act 2 begins?
You appear to have gone from saying the dialogue is melodramatic to accusing the whole film of being so after reading just three pages.
The thing with the word melodrama is that it already means overly emotional, or overly sentimental, or stereotypical. So if we use the word within the confines of its own definition then placing overly or over before it does not work. You can't even be overly stereotypical, you either are or you aren't.
The thing with the word melodrama is that it already means overly emotional, or overly sentimental, or stereotypical.
No, it doesn't. Melodrama means that elements of the piece are exaggerated for a specific intended effect. If they are exaggerated to such a point that the audience feels a disconnect with the film, those elements are overly melodramatic, ie, the device has been pushed too far and has broken down. What J.S. and Reaper are saying (I think), and I've read the first ten and feel the same way, is that the dialogue in the opening sequences seems exaggerated to the point where it's difficult to connect with. That doesn't mean it's not entirely realistic, and it doesn't mean it's not a matter of cultural perception, but it does mean that at least three people have had a similar reaction to the opening sequence of your script. Those three reactions, you can take or leave.
Act 1 ends on page 24. Do you really need to know when Act 2 begins?
Yes, Dustin. It's imperative I know.
Quoted from DustinBowcot
You appear to have gone from saying the dialogue is melodramatic to accusing the whole film of being so after reading just three pages.
Well first of all, there is no film. It's a script. Second of all, I did no such thing. I was speaking generally about such films.
Quoted from DustinBowcot
The thing with the word melodrama is that it already means overly emotional, or overly sentimental, or stereotypical. So if we use the word within the confines of its own definition then placing overly or over before it does not work. You can't even be overly stereotypical, you either are or you aren't.
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