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SimplyScripts Screenwriting Discussion Board    Unproduced Screenplay Discussion    Thriller Scripts  ›  Out with the Old Moderators: bert
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  Author    Out with the Old  (currently 10318 views)
J.S.
Posted: May 19th, 2013, 1:29am Report to Moderator
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Quoted from spesh2k
I don't know about everybody else, but this thread is getting a little bit overly melodramatic


It's over dramatic spesh. You can't say overly melodramatic. It's poor grammar.
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DustinBowcot
Posted: May 19th, 2013, 1:35am Report to Moderator
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Quoted from Guest
I have to agree with JS here.  There's nothing to feel for these characters in the very beginning of the script.  We have no idea who they are.  We don't care if they get killed.  The baby getting it's hand chopped off doesn't invoke emotion.  It invokes a feeling of someone going for a cheap shock just for the sake of shock because he can't invoke anything else from his writing or story.  I read 40 pages and not once did any of it -- the story or the characters -- pack an emotional punch.  It felt like a poor, cheap imitation of a Guy Ritchie film.  We follow around a bunch of paper-thin characters who come across as if they couldn't find their own ass with two hands and a flashlight, let alone a suitcase with two million dollars and seven kis of blow...  If you're gonna write something that's been done a "million" times, you have to put a different spin on things, and you have to really work on your characters so we FEEL for them, so your story packs that emotional punch that makes us CARE about what happens to them.  It's not happening here.  We don't care that it's Alexander's "last fucking chance" because he's just the run-of-the-mill, same-old-same-old, one dimensional thug.  I could care less if he makes it.  There's no connection with him as a character, and I could care less if he exacts revenge.  I think of "King of New York" with Christopher Walken.  At the start of the film, he gets out of jail a changed man, and finds out the only thing that changed about the streets is that it's a whole lot tougher and unrelenting as ever.  He wants to raise money to keep a hospital open in a crappy neighborhood, but is met with obstacles from criminals - and even cops - because of his past reputation.  The writing, the story, combined with Walken's amazing acting talent, make us desperately want him to achieve his goals, and survive the streets.  That's a story I connected with, and recommend.  As it stands, "Out With the Old" just comes across as a poorly written story with no emotional punch and paper-thin characters.


I loved King of New York... and I didn't even remember about the hospital. I couldn't care less about that. That's Hollywood's influence and has no real bearing on what most people watching these films really want to see.

Guys go to watch a film like this and they couldn't care less about some silly little hospital. All they want to see is drug use, action, sex and violence. Funnily enough that is all I remember from King of New York. I wanted him to take over and stay the King. I felt for him when he died and I don't remember the hospital thing at all. In fact when those types of scenes come on in a film, I groan. They are obvious tools and detract from the real story, IMO. That's kind of the reason I prefer to write British films... we don’t have to play by the rules of Hollywood and we can make films people really want to see.

I'm writing a film about bad guys doing bad things... there are no heroes. And people watching this type of film will thank me for not including such obvious 'save the cat' tools. Want to root for a hero? Go watch Superman.

Want great visuals, drugs, gangs, shooters, birds, action, thrills, spills.... watch, Out with the Old.

Your choice...
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Guest
Posted: May 19th, 2013, 1:57am Report to Moderator
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King of New York has a lot of other things going for it besides all that:  politics and crime, wealth and poverty, business and restoration, etc.

Don't get me wrong - I like violence, drugs, sex, and all that too, in movies.  But it's gotta be done right.  In the wrong hands it can be shallow, remote, and cheap, like Out With the Old.  Only hacks throw all that stuff in their script to hide the fact that they don't have a single ounce of talent and couldn't write their way out of a paper bag.
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DustinBowcot
Posted: May 19th, 2013, 2:31am Report to Moderator
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Quoted from Guest
King of New York has a lot of other things going for it besides all that:  politics and crime, wealth and poverty, business and restoration, etc.

Don't get me wrong - I like violence, drugs, sex, and all that too, in movies.  But it's gotta be done right.  In the wrong hands it can be shallow, remote, and cheap, like Out With the Old.  Only hacks throw all that stuff in their script to hide the fact that they don't have a single ounce of talent and couldn't write their way out of a paper bag.


... couldn't write their way out of a wet paper bag.
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Guest
Posted: May 19th, 2013, 2:38am Report to Moderator
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Yeah, whatever... anyway...

We're just two guys that disagree.

Let's just agree to disagree, and leave it at that.

See you around on the boards.  
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DustinBowcot
Posted: May 19th, 2013, 2:38am Report to Moderator
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Actually... I just checked, and either are acceptable. You learn something new every day.

http://english.stackexchange.com/questions/29669/what-does-way-out-of-a-paper-bag-mean
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CoopBazinga
Posted: May 19th, 2013, 9:22am Report to Moderator
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Hey Dustin,

Well, to say that this thread has gotten a little sidetracked is an understatement. I actually opened this up yesterday and decided to read this based on the fact that it was written in 8 days. Heck, I can't even write a shopping list in 8 days, let alone a feature script so kudos to you for that accomplishment. I guess that means I think differently to previous posters as to why they wouldn't open this script although I have to agree with others that there was no reason to mention it other than to blow your own trumpet.

So after seeing all the fuss on the thread today, wasn't quite sure if I should read but I thought bugger it, I've started so I might as well finish.

For starters I want to say that this is really well written considering the amount of time it was executed in. I had a few issues but most were small nitpicks which I've mentioned in the notes. I do think the slugs were a little clumsy and inconsistent at times and that the whole story lacked visual flair - what I mean by that is I never really felt you captured the London underworld which really could have been character in itself.

The dialogue did start off a little ropey, have to agree with others about that opening five pages or so. I do however think it got better after this and some of the slang was a nice touch which added colour to these characters but and it's a big but. There was lots of time where the dialogue didn't make sense, characters were contradicting themselves from a few scenes earlier which made it confusing. Also, the slang would turn off and on for some, most notably Delroy. And sometimes, characters would repeat themselves, a scene between Alexander and Oddball at the flat was a prime example of this.

A story can only be as good as its characters and that's the main flaw here for me. I never fully grasped these characters throughout and I think this made the plot confusing from the get-go.

Let's take that opening, why was Delroy killing Feliks and his men? I guess it was to take over his patch shall we say but it was never fully explained. Well, it seemed like Felik was more surprised than anyone when it all went down. When we move into the present, Delroy is hardly the big cheese, he's still taking down small fry like Tony and Johnny when he should be demanding a cut of their outlay like the big daddy of London.

It's possible that the opening is just to show Alexander lose his hand which again never comes into play other than helping the Russian's recognise him (why it took them 20 odd years is beyond me? They're Russian mob but couldn't locate a one handed kid in London - there can't be that many around)

But overall, the revenge part of this story comes in well too late and is rushed because of it. I didn't even know that Alexander knew Delroy but apparently he did and he just seems to accept that he's being told the truth by The Bear, a big bare-chested man who was about to torture him. This kind of trust is shown throughout which isn’t normally the case when dealing with shady characters like you had here.

There wasn't a clear protag in this story, it's got to be Alexander from the logline but let's look at him more closely: He doesn't get a description or age when first intro'd, no visual what so ever and then he's suddenly snorting coke and having threesome's with people he's just met that very night. He rarely speaks in the opening 50 pages, only speaks when spoken too so it's easy to see why you would argue about him being our protag or why I want to follow this guy.

What really confused the hell out of me mostly was who anybody actually was. Take Oddball and Danny's opening intro, Oddball hands out some tablets to some girls so I think that maybe he's a drug dealer while Danny moves onto another club to do a DJ set so you would think he likes music. Did Danny ever do anything to do with music? No! Oddball is apparently nervous when Danny leaves him alone, signifying that he's a little bit shy but it turns out he's actually quite a player bumping fists with the doorman and taking Alexander to a party. Are Danny and Oddball drug dealers? I have absolutely no idea.

What I do know about these guys is that they carry around tons of coke and joints and are quite helpful when it comes to Iraqi looking homeless people. I have to admit that you really ask the reader to suspend belief at this junction. Why does Danny help this man? Why trust him with a case full of money and coke when it would have been simpler if he just legged it rather than stopping and having a chat for a few minutes. Why does Oddball keep him around, he has the stash but is quite happy to have him tag along and share his women which I found quite amusing.

And then our brothers enter the mix, Tony and Johnny. A couple of supposed gangsters who after finding out one of (well, their only crew-member) has been killed... no idea who killed him or why? Think it was Delroy but because neither of Tony or Johnny thought this, I was little unsure.

But what was there relationship with Danny and Oddball - did they work for them? Friends? Again, this was unclear but they must trust Danny because they gave him a case with everything they own. When the case went missing, Johnny goes berserk and wants to kill everyone which is reasonable while Tony is the relaxed one even though he has much more to lose as he seems to be the only one with a family.

What is surprising is how when Johnny finds out who stole his case (his bird, Honey) he becomes more relaxed and seems to completely forget about it. In fact, they never once figured out who had the case and the fact that it pushed the story forward from the end of the first through most of the second act, it seems strange to totally forget about it by the end.

Like I say, I never fully understood the relationship between these characters and that harmed the dynamics of the story for me. To think that our three main guys didn't get a clear goal until page 48 and then that goal didn't actually matter should say something. I would push that forward and up the urgency, too much time is spent partying and having sex - yes, I can't believe I'm saying that but you had too much superfluous things happening in those opening 50 pages. What made it worse is that we didn't learn anything about these guys other than Oddball is a dirty bastard.

And the we move onto Honey who became John McClane and Rambo rolled into one at the end, it really did get a little stupid in that last 10 pages. I'm sorry but it did with RPG's and a massive gunfight which only Commando could outdo for explosions. And then the final shots with Honey and Johnny announcing they’re getting married to Tony (what happened to his wife) over a bottle of champagne and The Bear shaking hands with Alexander explaining they have much work to do.

Not to mention the anti-climatic ending of Delroy who just surrendered and was shot in the head, a little boring really, wanted a little more to test Alexander at the end.

So did these characters change? Well, not really apart from Alexander who now runs around with the Russian mob but because I didn't really know him, it's difficult to know if he changed personally over the story. Does this matter? That's up to you, it's your story but to me as a reader it did. Oddball and Danny are no different, Tony and Johnny have their club back but still have rivals in the Columbian brothers (it was so disappointing to not see them in the story more, now they sounded like good characters, some more of them in the next draft please.)

I think another problem could be some of the more comedic moments, whether they were meant to be comedic or not. Having the club called Delboy felt like a stunt from Only Fools and Horses (much like the clubs name) where Del gets in a dodgy sign. I think the main problem with this one is it makes your antag a joke, the reader laughs at him so he becomes less threatening. Then there was Oddball waggling his dick at some workmen, the before mentioned "dirty bastard" reference when Oddball ejaculates into some birds mouth upon being surprised by Tony and Johnny. It didn't fit in with the earlier more serious tone - something to think about.

Another of my main issues was the amount of characters and mostly the generic ones, I see that there's a possibility of getting this one produced and I wish you luck with that but I wouldn't be surprised if you had to bring down that character count. Just look at some: Male, man, guy, old guy, female bouncer, male bouncer, gangster, girl, woman, youth, clerk, attendant, Russian mobster, sign guys, workmen, po, doorman, wife and daughter. It's a long list and a lot of these characters talk which is completely unnecessary, IMO.

So although I think this is a fast read and I must again praise you on getting this written in 8 days, I still think it has tons of issues with the logics of the plot and characters. The biggest flaw has to be Alexander as the protag, it's supposed to be his story and how he gets revenge but this part of the story comes in at around page 80 odd in a 108 pager meaning the third act which isn't adequate. He also needs more personality, the reader needs to identify with him more and want him to succeed in his goal. I personally couldn't have cared less about him and more for Tony as like I said, he was the only one with something to lose.

The story needs to move quicker, the goals for our characters set out and not disrupted with superfluous scenes of people doing nothing. There needs to be more urgency once it's established that they have three days to locate the money and they can't keep changing their minds. One time, Alexander wants to kill Tony and Johnny with Danny disagreeing, yet hours later it's Danny who wants to kill them and suddenly Alexander doesn't.

Bring Delroy into the story more, make it clear that he's the one trying to bring down Tony and Johnny to everyone. Maybe Johnny and Tony knew but they never ever talk about Delroy and that means that Oddball, Danny and Alexander can have no idea he's the one behind it all. Also get rid of the "Delboy" club sign and make him more scary as an antag, there will be consequences if he doesn't get his money (I think the Turks could go and just keep Delroy and the Columbians) They could owe the money to Delroy instead so his robbing of them is even more deceiving when they find out.

Make it clear what the relationship is between Tony and Johnny and the boys... Do Danny and Oddball work for them? If so, then they shouldn't be shoving them back or even arguing, they should be scared of these guys with guns - at the moment they feel like lifetime friends and maybe that's the case but you need to make this clear.

Don't forget to tie up the lost case, it can't just be forgotten about and needs to be resolved somehow even if they just find it in Delroy's office at the end.

And give the last 10 pages a re-write, it's too over the top for me and needs to be trimmed back. Does it really need to be a big gunfight? Does Honey have to become the Bionic Woman? Like I said, comes off a little OTT at the moment.

Hopefully this helps and best of luck with it.

Steve

Some notes to follow:
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CoopBazinga
Posted: May 19th, 2013, 9:34am Report to Moderator
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P.1 Guess who’s going to win the beauty contest at this party? We have “tall and good looking” and “strikingly beautiful”

“They (are holding)” They hold.

“another man takes a photograph.” I’m guessing he’s taking a photo of the beautiful couple and their newborn? Maybe it needs to be clearer here.

“laughs (jovially)” jovially feels redundant here, why else would you laugh?

“Around the bar” Does this mean the bar counter or generally? Some would consider the “bar” as in the counter – maybe this should be “pub” if you mean generally which keeps in tone with the British vibe.

“EXT. STREET, OUTSIDE THE KNIGHT'S ARMS – NIGHT” Do you need “street” in the slug? Or even “outside the” could this just be “The Knight’s Arms” Also, think a dash should be used instead of a comma to split up the slug but maybe this is preference on my part.

Wasn’t keen on the “van pulls up” on its lonesome – think it could all be in one action line.

“Seven Young BLACK MEN” If they have scarfs covering their faces, how do we know they’re young? Maybe it’s their attire that is the give-away or attitude – give the reader something to help this image. It could be how they walk or talk. Also, why is “young” capped?

You could transition the next scene better but again could be preference. It’s just that you say “The young black men walk…” which comes off repetitive straight after the initial intro like this.

“removes his scarf.” Huh? Why bother wearing it in the first place? Wasn’t it supposed to hide his identity?

P.2  “Sitting at a table are six of Feliks' MEN, all covered by shotguns.”

This reads awkward – I understand what you’re going for but it could be a lot clearer.

“BOOM, BOOM, BOOM!” I don’t know, did you need to do this six times – read a bit over the top.

“try hiding behind tables.” Yep, that should stop the blast of a shotgun!

“In the confusion somebody snatches the baby” Who snatches the baby? Where did they snatch him from? Was the mother holding the baby? Was he casually talking to the bartender?

“CRACK!” I found this confusing, originally thought that Delroy had hit Felik. I’ve never seen “crack” used as a shooting sound effect before… not saying it’s never done, just a first for me and that’s where the confusion came from.

“(Still alive. Tries) to summon the strength to stand” This felt like a funny place to have a period and disturbed the flow of the read. “Still alive, he tries to…”

“Stay down (blood claat)” A new one on me – always like a little slang in the dialogue so I went and checked out the trusty urban dictionary, guessing this means “fuck”? I could be wrong because there are a few definitions of this.

“The baby looks up at him and smiles.” Do newborns smile or have gas? Well, in my experience newborns don’t just look up at you and smile, they cry! Oh, do they cry!

P.3 “This (aint) even about you, man.” Should this have an apostrophe? Maybe it’s slang? Feeling sorry for poor old Felik – if this isn’t about him then that must just mean wrong place, wrong time. Shit!

“sharpened machete.” As long as it isn’t blunt. I think “sharpened” can go.

Slicing off the baby’s hand is well, let’s say over the top and would probably kill the baby in reality – maybe that’s the plan?

“Delroy aims the gun” Is he still holding the machete as well?

“hitting Feliks (in the chest).” Little redundant, know this from the previous action.

“Alexander” Cap him on first intro and why no description?

P.4 “PO” This stands for Probation Officer! I saw the dialogue and thought a Chinese man was in the scene for a moment.

“Alexander walks up to (the) HOSTEL DOOR and rings the
Buzzer”

“the” implies that we’ve been intro’d to the hostel which we haven’t so for me it should be “a” hostel door. On the other hand, you could change the slug to “EXT. HOTSEL” and then have Alexander ringing the buzzer – it would tighten it up because you’ve saved half your work in the slug. We already know we’re outside a hostel.

You missed a (o.s) on the female voice on the speaker; you start without it and then change.

“looks like a hooligan” Now that’s a description – I really hope this is the protag.

P.5 “ODDBALL” Like the name – a bit like Oddjob.

“He places one onto each of the (girls) tongues and then leans in to kiss one of them.” What girls? Should they be capped? Personally, I think so but again, this could be preference.

P.6 Okay, what just happened with Oddball and Danny? Is Oddball a dealer? He gave tablets to two chicks and then took off, no payment in either money or sexually. What’s the crack? Why did Danny walk into a bar too just take off straight away? Why is Oddball laughing nervously like he doesn’t like to be alone, yet he bumps fist with the doorman like he goes there every week? All questions that will hopefully be answered?

“A group of three MALES” I’m a little confused, are these the drunken revellers from the previous sentence? I don’t understand why you’ve described them twice?

“disgust etched (into) his face.” Should this be “on his face”

“Looks like a fucking Iraqi.” Thanks drunken male because we have no idea what he looks like.

“MALE 2” Not a fan of generic names like this. You could give them more personality by mixing them up: fat, skinny and ginger – something like that.

P.7 “Tell him to stop staring at me” why can’t he tell him? It’s one of those “I’m not talking to him” moments around a dinner table.

“Just look away and this (nightmare) will be over.” Nightmare. Seriously! I think they’re going over the top – this kid won’t even talk to Alexander, yet alone turn into Freddy Kruger

“Alexander is missing a hand.” I see, our baby returns.

“Man 2 and Man 3” Now they’re man instead of male – best to be consistent.

“(OS)” Throw in a period in between the O and S.

You have to wonder why Danny would get involved in this situation – especially when he’s outnumbered and doesn’t know the victim. This could be his character and I guess I’ll find that out.

P.8 “Danny looks in on Alexander” Looks in? Probably should be “looks down at Alexander”

“drunk (Men) phone an ambulance.” Should be man. Only one is phoning the ambulance.

“EXT. STREET – NIGHT” You’ve got to have a look at your slugs – street is so generic when you could have it as your destination “EXT. PEACOCK’S…”

“PEACOCKS” Should peacocks have an apostrophe? Personally I’m not sure but you’ve changed from having one to not having one – which is it?

“Danny leads Alexander through the club and into the
toilets.”

No changing of slugs, have a mini slug here for toilets IMO.

P.9 “A GUY” A little weak – is it really just some random guy? How about attendant or something. You might as well call him “dude”

And he gets to talk… must have meaning. Showing that Danny is a player in this nightclub and knows the staff. Can’t see any other reason for him to speak. It’s just a GUY after all.

Now Danny’s snorting coke, are they dealers or just druggies with a lot of money to be handing it out for nothing to strangers.

P.10 “Danny throws a couple more lines down.” He’s obviously not just throwing them down right?

“INT. OFFICE - PEACOCK'S NIGHTCLUB – NIGHT” Good to see you’ve changed to dashes but isn’t this the wrong way round? Wouldn’t it be “PEACOCK’S NIGHTCLUB – OFFICE…”?

P.11 The slugs are a little inconsistent – worth keeping an eye out for.

“of cocaine and money into a (case.)” What kind of case? Briefcase, suitcase – best to be clear here so we know what Danny’s lugging around.

P.13 Why didn’t Danny just run for the fire escape himself? You need to set this scene up better, Danny has to have a proper reason for handing over the case – all the talking he did Alexander was wasted time when you consider he could of just legged it to the fire escape himself. What if a cop recognises Danny or something like that.

“hits a six foot fence.” Ouch! Maybe he should have stopped when he saw it.

“Oddball is standing outside Genesis Bar chatting to
the (girls he gave a pill) to earlier and a DOORMAN.”

Did he give them one or two pills? Is this another new doorman, how many have we had so far? Watch out for the nasty “is” which isn’t helping this line, not to mention that you’ve mentioned the slug again which is (no pun) redundant.

I can’t help wondering why the doorman gets capped but the girls don’t? Neither talk or anything – it’s always best to be consistent.

P.14 "Danny sent me." I didn't know that Danny and Alexander got each other's names - guess it's possible during their intimate scene in the toilet when they snorting coke together like old buddies. Also very trusting of Danny - he's just found out this guy has left prison and in way would run off with the case.

"shit has hit the fan." Love it that Oddball suddenly knows exactly what is going down from this expression.

P.15 "Another man walks in, AGGRO (40's)" Could be shortened - AGGRO (40s), walks in.

P.16 "FILTH HQ" Nice but a lot of readers might be confused by this. Perfectly fine in dialogue but I really think you should say Police HQ in the slug for clarity sakes.

"Danny winks and (mimes): "It's safe." Was a little confused with this line - what does he actually do to get this message across?

"Johnny (visibly) relaxes" Watch out for redundant words in the action. "Johnny relaxes"

"get your head on(..)" Why the two periods? maybe it was originally a ellipsis.

P.17 "Oddball leads Alexander to a stop outside an apartment block." Again, little things like this could be tightened. "Oddball and Alexander stop outside an apartment block."

"INT. APARTMENT BLOCK - NIGHT" This slug could be continuous... no big deal, just saying.

Why such a bug space between your mini slugs? Let's be fair, you could've just started this scene with them walking into the safe house - the parts before are unnecessary unless I missed something.

The safe room must be important - it's the first room you've described, maybe this is to show that Oddball and his crew have money. They must be pretty big players to have a safe room.

It's a little confusing, why is Alexander staring at Oddball hard? Doesn't he want to get out of this now. He's done what he had to do.

Why repeat his name here, he's already told Oddball. He comes off mysterious at the moment, no background or anything which I'm guessing is your intention so play up to this. When he's asked "Who the fuck he is?" Why not something like "I'm nobody" I really can't figure Alexander out at the moment.

Even the dialogue at this junction seems weird. "I met your friend tonight" Why not call him Danny, he knows his name and isn't this repeating what we and the characters already know. This scene could be better handled - surely both characters are wary of each other but I don't this is coming out, it's just weird.

The case had no locks? With how much was in there, you'd think that Johnny and Tony could afford a better suitcase with some security.

P.18 "(we see) that it is full" I'm someone that actually doesn't mind this in a script if it needs it but I reckon you could achieve this without the "we see" Just a thought.

"Alexander's eyes bulge." He should probably go and see someone about that.

"Oddball raises his eyes to the (sky)." Or ceiling in this case. You have to wonder why Oddball brought Alexander along?

P.19 "Alexander (looks a little) uncomfortable" Watch out for this - could be "Uncomfortable, Alexander takes a seat..."

"(Alexander looks) at him strangely." Three sentences start like this in a row on the top of this page, mix up your verbs because it looks repetitive.

"hiding it behind the settee." Great hiding place! He's put a lot thought into that. I guess the only question is, where is the settee in the room? If it's in the middle then it's hardly hiding. How about putting it under the settee or a cabinet - seems more logical.

Now he has coke, he must be a dealer right? But then he's sniffing all the shit. I'm really confused about who these guys are and what they are doing with Tony and Johnny.

"You look like one of us now." What does Oddball mean? Alexander's wearing a designer suit while he's wearing casual designer clothes. How do they look the same? Maybe me means that he looks like a proper geezer now, one of the boys.

Oddball and Danny seem quite nice fella's happily sharing out the coke to a complete stranger.

P.20 "I've sorted it." Will this be some famous last words that come back to haunt him. After being so panic-stricken, Oddball's taking a chance.

P.21 "One hundred and Eighty-seven minutes." Who talks like this? Probably should of added the seconds as well. Surely someone would just say "Three hours"

Why did Chalmers let him out? I thought there was going to be a reason but nothing happened.

Continuing on:
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CoopBazinga
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P.23 SOLDIER-1(20's), athletic, (gold), designer clothes. Just to be clear, you mean gold jewellery right? It's not like he's made of gold or painted gold like that poor unfortunate bird in Goldfinger.

P. 24 "Tony and Danny are also in the room." They let Danny out as well? I can understand Tony and Johnny being let go but Danny assaulted a police officer, surely they wouldn't just let him out without charge.

"Johnny pushes Danny, Danny pushes back. Tony steps in to break them up." I'm just still confused about their relationships? Who are these people to one another? I thought Johnny was the boss and supposed to be quite a tough one at that but Danny's pushing him back with Tony stepping in like the reasonable one. Does Danny work for Johnny and Tony? Should he be scared of them?

“Oddball and Alexander are spit-roasting a WOMAN.” Shit! How long have these two known each other? Five minutes and they’re already going all Ménage à trois. I’m just really lost about who these characters are?

Also have to say that you don’t have to give us a complete description of this scene, makes it feel a little x-rated like it’s turned into a porn film.

“He pauses to sniff a line of coke off her back.”

How long has this been here? It seems like these boys are snorting a hell of a lot coke at the moment. What’s the characters goals at the moment. Seems to be “Let’s get high”

“Johnny's outside.” This is Danny’s reaction to Oddball and Alexander shagging some bird together. He’s pretty cool, isn’t he annoyed about them taking off and leaving the case to get high and shag each other? (we all know the bird is an excuse – they really wanted one another! )

P.25 “Johnny is pacing” Johnny paces.
“Tony is leaning” Tony leans.

Try to get rid of the nasty “is” in your action. Just do a ctrl-f on the script and clean them up.

“Tony (arrives), drags Johnny back.” Arrives from where? He was already there. “Tony drags Johnny back.”

“local gangbangers doing what gangbangers do.” What do gangbangers do? This is a bit vague. I’m sure they do lots of things.

P.26 “Never mind feeling fucking sorry for yourself.” Does he feel sorry for himself? I thought he was more pissed off at being head-butted. I’m still unclear on this relationship? The way Oddball speaks back to Johnny makes me believe they’re more mates than work together.

“It's at the (flat.)” Thought it was a safe house? Don’t be so coy Mr. Oddball, there is only a few gangbangers around doing what they do, whatever that is?

“He's bang out of order...” No! He really isn’t. You’ve probably lost all his money and coke to have a threesome. I feel as in these characters should be fearful but it’s not coming across, instead Oddball is more bothered about Johnny’s reaction than for his life.

P.31 More coke! Fuck, I’m surprised that Oddball can remember anything. He’s probably starting to have hallucinations. Why isn’t he suffering any paranoia, think the situation could cause that with how much coke he’s had.

Where is all this coke coming from? Maybe he stole some from the case?

“INT. HALLWAY, HONEY'S HOUSE – (DAY)” Should be night.

P.32 “Danny, Alexander and Oddball move quickly out of his way (as) he steams”

Poor old Johnny keeps getting shunned to the side. That’s a shame because he’s the most interesting character at the moment.

“Tony pulls a gun from inside his jacket and puts it to
her head.” I thought he said he wasn’t going to hurt her? He’s got a funny way of showing this.

“Plushly decorated” Just like the safe house – must have the same interior designer.

P.28 The writing’s a little clumsy with Delroy and his men outside the peacock. Why are they putting up a sign at night? It feels a little strange – the police were there searching this place not long before and I can’t help but wonder if they would be keeping an eye on the place – it was a murder investigation, right? Who are the men putting up the sign? Are these Delroy’s boys or some actual professional sign people?

“appears to say DELBOY'S.”

“That looks like a 'B'.”

What’s going on here? Well, this hardly fits in but hey, loving the Only Fools and Horses reference for two reasons – Delboy is obvious but I did like the other line. Just like Rodney’s identity bracelet that said Rooney but it was all copper plate writing.

P.29 “The sign guys” Who? Do you really need numerous people to get a signature?

Does someone like Delroy who’s just broken into a club stand around and sign paperwork. Okay, it’s getting a little farfetched now.

Cap sign guy IMO, he talks so is worth being capped but this scene feels out of place, goes against the tone you have going.

“leaving the sign guys unsure of what to do next.” Hopefully this will become a new plot thread with these guys trying to get a signature throughout the story – can see that being very funny.

“(Just) Tony, Oddball, Alexander and Danny are in the
room.” No need for this – start with Tony and do you really need to tell me they’re in the room – that’s pretty obvious I would have thought. Something like:

“Oddball searches behind the settee. Tony, Alexander and Danny watch on expectantly.”

“(i) swear” I swear.

“he wasn't holding (a) case.” Wouldn’t he say “he wasn’t holding the case.” Everyone calls it case, I’m still unsure what case it was? I’m guessing a suitcase so I have to wonder how big it was.

P.34 “Tony walks through the gate.” Ouch! Why didn’t he open it?

P.35 Really? Tony’s just going to let them all go home… he’s basically taking Oddball and Alexander’s word on this. Now for me this is hardly plausible, he doesn’t even know Alexander. Would you let your main suspects walk away for the night, heck, they could be in the Caribbean by the morning.

P.36 “King Pin for the UK operation.” What operation? Have I missed something? I actually have to admit that I don’t know what’s going on other than the missing case they’re trying to find. No idea why Delroy changed the club name or what he has to do with our other characters.

Loving the descriptions, (gay and sadistic) and hope to see a lot more of these characters. I wonder if these guys would have bodyguards. They sound like the type of fella’s that would want to take care of themselves.

“INT. DELBOY'S – DAY” Last time I’ll say it but the slugs are really inconsistent.

P.37 “little awkwardly with Vincente.” This would be funny but is it again a little silly. I don’t think you would do this but maybe I’m not looking at the bigger picture. This could be showing off that Delroy is homophobic and it could come into play later.

“brought in specially for their visit.” How would we know this, unless the chairs are being physically brought into the room during this scene? At the end of the day, it’s superfluous info and isn’t needed.

“A cool two million and seven key of coke.” There was two million in the case! This makes Tony’s decision to let the boys go home even more unlikely. Why does Delroy have it? How come Tony and Johnny haven’t come back to the club at anytime? Lots of questions at the moment.

“Jesus snaps his fingers and Vincente appears with a case” This could be reworded – at the moment it sounds like Jesus is a magician… maybe he is?

P.38 Okay, so some things are becoming clear. Delroy wants to take down Johnny’s gang (does he have one?) and become the main gang in London. I wonder if Tony and Johnny know about Delroy and how he wants to take them down… they’ve never mentioned it. It’s also become clear that Johnny is indeed in charge or at the very least it was his money and coke. This would lead me to believe that he has some power over people but this hasn’t been showing.

“awake all night and completely wired.” Feels like a redundant statement as we know this. We were with them all night and they got home in the morning. I think you mean “he hasn’t slept a wink” since they got home this morning.

“(His) one leg bouncing up and down as his mind whirs.” This makes this line read awkward.

P.39 “Alright?” Alright or all right? I’m not bothered but you’re changing as you go along and I think it’s best to be consistent especially in dialogue.

“He's going to kill me.” Finally! Some actual stakes. One of our characters is worried although I wish his friend shared this concern, strolling around in silk pyjamas like it’s a lazy Sunday morning.

But now Danny is crushing these stakes, telling Oddball not to worry and that HE won’t let Johnny get too crazy! Maybe I was wrong – Danny must be in charge after all. Something I have wondered is why Oddball and Danny aren’t placing the blame onto Alexander the complete stranger who nobody knows – they could pass the buck and save their skins but they’re hardly worried about them are they to be fair.

P.40 “Johnny is surrounded by four or five BLACK MEN.” Where is Johnny’s crew?

“This is mine by law.” This quite a funny line for these types of shady characters… next he’ll be saying that his case of coke is his by law as well.

P.42 “You lying cunt. He'd never go to Barbados. He hated it there.” Who? The man at the warehouse? Why is Delroy lying? Scared of Johnny’s reaction to the truth.

Where’s Tony btw?

Oh, he’s serving dinner to his family – don’t really sense his urgency to get the two million back.

“He hangs up the phone and quickly finishes serving dinner. His wife looks at him with concern.” He finished serving dinner?! After he told his wife, did they sit down and eat it as well or take off the hospital.

P.44 Hasn’t the penny dropped on Tony and Johnny yet… shouldn’t they suspect Delroy of stealing their cash and coke.

P.45 “Oddball puts out coke lines on the table. The music is turned up, girls start dancing -- party time.”

This is getting crazy, are they serious?! More coke and women – who are these women? Why the hell aren’t they out looking for the case? Where the fuck is he pulling all this coke from?

P.46 “Of course I hear. You have nothing.” Who told him. Only our guys and Honey know about it right? I wonder if he also knows who took it? They should ask him.

“Ah the monkey speaks.” Woof! This is a bit disrespectful, and again makes me think that Tony is the head guy. You really have to clear up who these guys are and what they do. Are they drug dealers? They sell the drugs through their club, right?

“Hey, come on. We're speaking civilly here.” Okay, I’m just really stumped as to why they accept being spoken to this way. They’re hardly the Kray brothers setting fear in people, more like the shy brothers.

P.47 “Alexander is grinding with two girls.” Go on, son! I have to say that Alexander is really weak as a protag. It states in the logline “A mobster’s son, orphaned as a baby, helps some gangsters get their turf back” but 50 pages in, all he’s done is have a threesome, snort coke, lose the case, sleep and stand around saying nothing. He needs a lot more; I still have no idea who this person is. I knew more about his father and he was in only three pages at the beginning.

“Oddball panics and ejaculates into the girl's mouth, causing her to gag.” Lol! I doubt they’d show this but fuck its funny.

“Dirty fucking bastard.” Did she spit or swallow?

“Why... what is this?” Has Oddball forgotten? The guy was bricking it before but now he’s unsure what’s going on.

“The girls grab their (stuff) and leave.” This means clothes I hope… unless they walk out naked with mouths full of…

P.49 Does Alexander speak? Why is he still there?

“And straight into the hands of some thieving cunt!” How can these two not figure it out… it hardly takes Poirot. Why not check out the guy who just took over your club. Or maybe they should suspect Oddball who has shitloads of coke.

“Why not? Don't you own anything?” Huh? WTF? Is Danny just playing dumb or what?

P.50 “We're fucking gangsters you mug.” Could have fooled me.

Wouldn’t Johnny want to be more proactive, try to get the money himself as well? It’s just that he seems to be relying on the very guys who lost the case in the first place. Not really a great plan especially as his own life depends on it.

P.52 “My experience at (sixteen)” Thought he was fifteen?

So we finally learn something about Alexander and our characters have a goal… I would suggest getting to this point a lot earlier. It’s playing out a little like Lock Stock now.

Onto the next page:
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CoopBazinga
Posted: May 19th, 2013, 9:41am Report to Moderator
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P.53 Okay… Why did they just go through all that about who drives for Alexander to turn around a moment later and say “I'm going to have to drive.” It doesn’t make sense and makes the previous scene superfluous.

And now they’re joking about wanking to a one-hand man… these guys are great.

P.54 “Alexander gets into the (driving) seat” driver’s seat.

“Oddball shakes his hips, waggling his dick at the WORKMEN.” Now we’ve really entered comedy territory, surely there’s another way. All he has to do is distract them.

P.55 There is an awful amount of generic characters in this story, that’s something you should try to cut down on. It’s surely more cost effective to have fewer characters meaning fewer actors/extras and less money spent. For example, in this scene, is it necessary to have three workmen?

“picks up the Jack Hammer and circular saw then runs (quickly) away.” He isn’t running away quickly carrying a jack hammer and stone cutter. In fact, he might even struggle to carry both.

“DANNY makes it to the car and jumps inside.” While carrying a jack hammer and saw? Unlikely.

P.56 “Alexander is holding a plastic gun” But it does look like a real gun, right? I’m just imaging a cheap plastic gun with the red piece on the end of the barrel.

“The Attendant (nervously) comes around” He doesn’t seem nervous, quite calm to think about it and why wouldn’t he with Oddball politely nodding thanks and Alexander warning him to cover his ears.

“digging up the floor to reveal the safe.” I thought this was a petrol station? Seems a bit OTT for a local petrol station. How do they get to the safe if it’s under the floor? I’m sure it take a little while to do this, aren’t the boys worried about customers coming in?

“cutting into the safe.” But he has a stone cutter… might be better if he stole a metal cutter me thinks.

“Danny drives” At least they’re doing it in shifts – everyone has had a turn now.

P.57 “Shotterz steps in and punches her in the face” Again! Poor girl keeps getting punched.

“carrying three cups of tea in one hand.” You’ve got to laugh. These three have gone from snorting coke to drinking tea – how very British.

“Well where the fuck are we supposed to get real guns from?”

C’mon on Danny! Think about it… who pointed a gun at you the day before. How can he forget something like that?

“His (wife) has tears in her eyes.” I really think Tony’s wife deserves a name – this is probably the relationship that has most feeling or should I say Tony is the character with the most to lose. It’s just that you don’t seem to want to work with that which is evident by just calling her wife.

P.59 “If it wasn't for him I'd still be a drug addict on the streets.” As opposed to a drug dealer who’s about to be killed.

“Tony gets into the car and drives away.” Do we see this? We’re still in the bedroom.

P.61 “Honey is (outside)” A bit redundant, we know this from the slug. Who owns the safe house? I see that Johnny lying low there – why doesn’t Delroy kill them? Seems silly to leave them hanging around when they could exact revenge for taking over the club.

P.63 “(yeah) that's right.” Cap yeah. Honey’s turned into quite a punching bag. Does Johnny know she stole the case and gave it to Delroy? He hasn’t said. More like he suspects her but doesn’t know.

P.64 “Oddball (leads)” Do a ctrl-f on leads – you use it an awful amount and it’s becoming repetitive.

Solider-1 must be a top dog, he hangs out under a slide handing out the shit. This feels like it should be passed over to one of his lackeys.

P.65 “Funnily enough, they're not. They have to wait till there's more spaces in the jail before going out nicking anybody else.” Yeah, this sounds about right with the British police.

“Soldier-1 is sitting on a wooden bench.” Soldier-1 sits on… but isn’t his repeated info. You stated before that he was sitting under the slide. Its little things like that which could be tightened and save this paragraph being six lines long and look blocky.

“A GIRL is sitting either side of him.” This reads awkward.

This whole line is explaining how they do the deals which isn’t necessary to the story… concentrate on our guys and what they want.

P.66 “Soldier-1 stops walking and (he) takes a good look” Take “he” out for a smoother read.

“closer to (S-1.)” More to do with preference but I don’t care for shortening the name like this in the action – reads kinda lazy.

P.67 “OK, shall I come back tomorrow or something?” Show a little urgency will you Oddball, you’ve got three days.

P.68 Everyone’s getting head in this story but the last time we saw these two, Johnny was about to bash up Honey with a hammer and now she’s bashing his hammer. What changed?

“I'm sorry I gave your case away.” WTF! She’s admitted it then, so why isn’t Johnny going all ape shit like he has done for the past 60 pages. He finally finds out it’s her and goes all mellow, isn’t he bothered that she gave it to Delroy? He knows right?

P.69 “INT. MONEY SHOP – DAY” What’s a money shop? I’ve never heard of them before... it’s like an open announcement to robbers. Okay, this is a real place – who would have thought.

P.70 “Remember we haven't done a thing wrong.” What’s he talking about? They just robbed a money shop. It’s also strange because Danny was cool. Maybe he should drive recklessly at first, then Alexander tells him to breathe so then he drives calmly. Right now, he drives calmly, gets told to breathe and then drives calmly again.

P.71 “I'll tell the lads it's all my own stupid fault.” What’s Johnny talking about? What’s his fault? I have no idea what he’s proposing. I do know that he’s the calmest man on the planet now when before he was a complete psycho. I guess getting good head can calm any man down.

“Danny and Alexander share a joint” First day coke, second tea and now a joint.

P.72 What are the three stooges going on about now! This conversation is all over the place – Danny thinks they’re not getting anywhere, Oddball is worried about being caught because the police are a hell of lot worse than Johnny killing them and Alexander thinks they shouldn’t pay or kill the brothers but sixty grand is enough to take off on. On the same note, I’m just confused about what they’re talking about.

P.73 And now Oddball suddenly remembers about an underground casino where he cousin works – how did he forget that?

P.74 “A friend of mine still works there.” Thought it was his cousin?

“while seated in her (favourite armchair)” Is this important? I don’t understand why it matters if she’s sitting in her favourite armchair… how would you even show this on screen.

P.75 “They speak English around me.” I think Alexander’s trying to ask if they’re foreign, surely she would recognise an accent and she can’t be this stupid.

P.77 “Johnny and Tony walk in armed with (hatchets.)” What happened to their guns?

“Falling on top of him, rapidly hitting him over and over again with the hatchet.” Who falls on who? It looks like Johnny falls on the mechanic but why would Johnny fall? Shouldn’t it be the other way? It just needs to be clearer here.

“Haluk is rubbing against her arse waiting for the viagra to kick in.”How come Haluk didn’t hear all the commotion outside his office?

P.78 “He stands up as he involuntarily shits himself” I don’t want to know how they’re going to show this on screen.

Tony’s now turned into the crazy one.

“A GUNSHOT. Pistol smoke. Tony is holding the gun. He fires again.” Again, why the hackets? Looks like this is just for affect and really, this would just add to the cost for all the blood and effects.

P.79 “the back and (he) slumps over Johnny”

“a (hundred yards) away from the workshop.” That’s pretty precise.

So now Johnny and Tony have decided to go to war… with who? It looks like they’ve solved their problem with Haluk. They still haven’t mentioned anything about Delroy but I’m guessing it’s him they mean.

And the last one (didn't expect it to be so long)

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CoopBazinga
Posted: May 19th, 2013, 9:43am Report to Moderator
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P.80 “Smack.” You’ve being put these sound effects in all caps… why not now? Doesn’t matter, just curious.

“realising he may have hit just a tad too hard.” Just a bit – he broke her jaw.

“we're here to steal from your bosses.” Their bosses? These guys are at a casino, not at work. And because our three are stealing from the tables, wouldn’t they really actually be stealing from these old guys?

“hold all” could be holdall – one word.

P.81 “You can now get on with your evening.” With what? They stole all the money.

P.82 “Tony, Honey and Johnny are dancing around to Trap while snorting cocaine and drinking champagne” Celebrating already! I thought they were going to war.

Why wouldn’t they take the money? Just lie and take it. Johnny’s a changed man, like a favourite uncle who wants to prank his nephews.

P.83 And now the boys have changed their tune. Alexander wanted to kill Tony and Johnny before, while Danny didn’t think they’re killers and now it’s suddenly the other way round.

“waggles a large bag of coke in front of Danny's face.” Oh, don’t worry about that Johnny… just have some from Oddball’s massive stash.

P.84 “Nightmare is over.” What is it with everyone thinking it’s a nightmare? Hasn’t been that bad has it.

P.85 “You came to rob us.” What is going on? They wasn’t robbing them, just collecting what these dimwits lost.

P.86 “Danny looks at Oddball.” I think this might be quite difficult when you are upside down and dangling from your ankles… guess it depends on where Oddball is? I assumed they were all side by side.

P.88 “You don't remember me?” He was a baby! But on the same note, there’s not many bare-chested men walking around called the bear – he would be hard to forget.

P.89 “(in Russian)” A lot of wrylies in this section, some could be cut to shorten the page length. I think we get that they’re speaking in Russian after a while.

“I have found him.” Wait a minute… the Russians have been looking for Alexander for 24 years and never found him. How hard is it to find a one handed person in London… there can’t be that many around, especially in children’s homes. I think this plot point will need to be cleaned up.

Why are they letting the other’s down as well? They still robbed the casino.

P.91 Why has Honey gone back to Delroy? Is she turning her back on Johnny again?

“Make sure (she) dead” she’s.

“The fire exit doors close shut, firmly behind them, causing some concern among the Bouncers.” Why are the bouncers concerned? Can’t they just walk back around the to entrance.

“Honey crumples, unconscious to the floor.” Honey’s been beaten to shit throughout. Her face must be absolutely bruised.

P.92 “Honey rises to her feet and runs along the alleyway.” She was unconscious before, had her head smashed into concrete but now she’s turned into Usain Bolt. Honey is one strong bitch.

“A left, a right, a left, right, left, right.” Yeah, I got the point… don’t think you need all of this.

P.93 “Honey squeezes with all her strength until Bouncer(2) dies.” Who the hell is Honey? She must have kept some spinach in her pocket like Popeye. She got beaten to death by a big bouncer but was still able to choker her to death.

“IT'S A DEAD END, the wall too high to climb.” Try the other way, love.

“a male GANGSTER (20's) well built, walks out.” Another generic character, must be the millionth in this story. Why is he just randomly walking out of the fire escape? Why’s he a gangster, is he one of Delroy’s guys?

“The Fire Door closes, locking him out. He curses then peers further down the alleyway.”

What’s the deal with this fire door and alleyway? Why is everyone so concerned when the door closes? Just walk out of the alleyway.

P.94 “It's (somhat) to do with Alexander.” Is this slang?

P.95 “Alexander looks up at the name.”

“I want to kill Delroy.”

This sounds like an important part – the person who killed his father. My one issue is that Alexander, as far as I know, doesn’t know Delroy. He can’t look up with recognition. Or state that he wants to kill him. Nobody has ever mentioned his name around him; he has no idea of his background. Why would he want to kill him? Now maybe I missed it, more than possible so please point it out to me where all this hatred for Delroy comes from. So basically you’re trying to sell all his revenge on this one scene, it’s not enough, he should have found out about his background a lot earlier. He needs to interact with Delroy at some point or at least know who he is.

What’s all this nonsense about not taking revenge. So the Russians will happily tie you up and torture you over money but killing one of their own – hey, we can’t do anything – it doesn’t work that way.

What are they talking about with all this gang mumble jumble… who sets up these rules? What happens if they break them? Do they go to court? Maybe this is how it works but it doesn’t sound plausible to me. Although I do like this honour among gangsters.

P.99 “(DANNY LIGHTS UP A JOINT) at the other end of the park.” Why’s this capped? I guess emphasising it but I’m unsure to why? That’s all Danny, Oddball and Alexander have been doing for 95 pages.

“with you being on top.” Would Johnny rather be on top! It doesn’t really matter as no one has ever been in charge throughout. At least this means Alexander has to talk more.

P.100 “S-1 goes into the COMMUNITY CENTRE” What community centre? Thought it was a slide? Now I’m confused as you can’t go “into” a slide so I’m thinking you mean an actual centre.

“It's only a little knife so he doesn't really feel it at first.” How small? I can’t wondering why a gangster is carrying around small fishing knife.

P.101 Go on Honey, she’s gonna kill Delroy’s whole crew at this rate… she’s like John McClane.

“Honey tries to wedge open the fire door. It remains steadfast.” Again with the fire door, walk around the front.

“INT. OFFICE, (DELROY'S) NIGHTCLUB – NIGHT” Did he finally get the sign sorted? It’s been called Delboy’s before now.

“Delroy is sitting at his desk when a (male BOUNCER) walks in.” There is way too many of these types of characters, ones that come in with one word and disappear. In this instance, you could use an already intro’d character like his right hand man Skeetz or whatever he was called.

“We're having to let all the females in without searching them.” This is strange? Why are they searching people? Aren’t these guys’ gangsters and probably sell drugs to these kids.

P.103 “That's my fucking club, you cunts.” Or “Say hello to my little friend, you cunts!”

“Johnny fires and a (rocket smashes through the doors) of the club” What happened? Did the doors explode? This sounds like the rocket just opened the door – maybe it was a dud.

“S-1 nods at the wisdom.” What wisdom? I don’t get it? And hasn’t Johnny already gone against it, he just “fired” a rocket from a RPG.

“obliterating anyone in (in) the way” Get rid of one of the “in”

“Ten or so others are hiding behind chairs and tables, mostly holding pistols.” So they got an army of 60-70 to fight ten or so people – a tad overkill. They should have left it to Honey.

P.104 “searches the male Bouncer” What happened to the male gangster? I think you’re now even getting confused with the amount of pointless characters.

P.105 “She fires the handgun at the fire exit door and breathes a sigh of relief as it swings open.” Err… How? One of those movie tricks.

“One after another Delroy's boys are taken down.” Woohoo! Honey has turned into Rambo! She’s survived a beating, got past the dreaded fire door and is kicking arse!

“The six:” Definitely not magnificent.

“All six of them have their moment shooting some cunt in the head.” Yes! This whacky ending continues – loving the fact that “cunt” has made it into the action. This should have been called “The revenge of the Cockneys”

P.106 “Don't worry, I'm here now.” Yeah, he looked really concerned upon seeing her bruised face. He shouldn’t worry though, she’s the Terminator and Rambo rolled into one – everyone behind her.

“Delroy is hiding behind his desk and he raises his hands in the air signifying surrender.” What a disappointment… after all this, he just surrenders. Was hoping for some big battle between him and Honey.

“and shakes Alexander's hand.” Is the Bear taking the piss – possibilities for comedy here.

P.107 “Johnny is sitting behind the desk, Honey is on his lap, smoking a joint.” A well-earned joint. Where are they keeping this massive supply of joints?

“There is a bottle of champagne on ice.” Another bottle! They’ve been celebrating for the half the story. Did they find the case; it should still have a million pounds in it – guess nobody cares anymore, that was 30 pages ago.

What about the Columbians? Jesus and his sons, the really insane one and the gay one. Wasn’t they behind all of this? A little disappointing that we didn’t get a conclusion to that part of the story.

All the best with it.



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DustinBowcot
Posted: May 19th, 2013, 10:02am Report to Moderator
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Bleeding heck... lol. That's a lot to get through. I've read your first post and I have to say you are right. I thought that myself about the protag. He's too passive. The DJ thing was an early thing I thought I may play with later, but never did.

Although the Colombians were behind it, Delroy is the main guy. I'll have to go through all of your points as there are some excellent suggestions there. You clearly know what you're talking about and thanks a lot for taking all this time out. I think you've done my second draft for me, lol. Nice one, I'll get to it all in a minute.
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DustinBowcot
Posted: May 19th, 2013, 11:54am Report to Moderator
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Quoted from CoopBazinga

“laughs (jovially)” jovially feels redundant here, why else would you laugh?


nervously? uproariously? disturbingly? But I agree, within context, jovially isn't needed.

We say Bar and Pub here... both are recognised and accepted.


Quoted from CoopBazinga
“EXT. STREET, OUTSIDE THE KNIGHT'S ARMS – NIGHT” Do you need “street” in the slug? Or even “outside the” could this just be “The Knight’s Arms” Also, think a dash should be used instead of a comma to split up the slug but maybe this is preference on my part.


This is how I was recently told to do it by a Hollywood gatekeeper. The Knight's Arms would be an INT, so the setting is actually outside the pub and not on its roof or anything. I feel it's clear enough which is the important thing. I could change Street to CAR PARK, I suppose... but it doesn't really make any difference. It's the street outside the pub.


Quoted from CoopBazinga
“removes his scarf.” Huh? Why bother wearing it in the first place? Wasn’t it supposed to hide his identity?


The UK is the CCTV capital of the world. Inside the pub is relatively safe. You're right though, I could show that better... maybe add a CCTV camera but then it may seem like the CCTV was crucial to the plot somehow.


Quoted from CoopBazinga
P.2  “Sitting at a table are six of Feliks' MEN, all covered by shotguns.”


All of this has been deleted. I'm using a new tactic here.


Quoted from CoopBazinga
“Stay down (blood claat)”


It's patois for woman.


Quoted from CoopBazinga
“The baby looks up at him and smiles.” Do newborns smile or have gas?


Fair point, they have gas... but I'm sure they smile at me For film purposes though... the smile works better, but I have still deleted that scene now.

All of the earlier bar scene and PO scenes have been cut.


Quoted from CoopBazinga
“looks like a hooligan” Now that’s a description – I really hope this is the protag.

“He places one onto each of the (girls) tongues and then leans in to kiss one of them.” What girls? Should they be capped? Personally, I think so but again, this could be preference.


When you're out and about and have bag fulls of drugs you often give them out like sweets to people you know... regulars on the scene. You get groupies, girls that are always around off their tits on whatever.

Nobody wants to be alone. It doesn't matter how big you are you could be taken down and robbed in an instant. Even by street thugs. Wrong moment in time, w2hat you going to do? Talk about how big you are? Nope... in real life, it doesn't matter how big you think you are, if you end up on your own, you're just a man on your own.


Quoted from CoopBazinga
“A group of three MALES” I’m a little confused, are these the drunken revellers from the previous sentence? I don’t understand why you’ve described them twice?


They are separate. Not sure why that is confusing to you. I'm reading it now and it seems crystal to me.


Quoted from CoopBazinga
“disgust etched (into) his face.” Should this be “on his face”


No, it is 'into'. When you etch you cut into.


Quoted from CoopBazinga
“Looks like a fucking Iraqi.” Thanks drunken male because we have no idea what he looks like.


Before posting it here I cut an earlier scene with Alexander getting out of jail. That was where all his character description was and I forgot to put it back in.



Quoted from CoopBazinga
P.7 “Tell him to stop staring at me” why can’t he tell him? It’s one of those “I’m not talking to him” moments around a dinner table.


They're drunk. It would be understood here.


Quoted from CoopBazinga
“Just look away and this (nightmare) will be over.” Nightmare. Seriously! I think they’re going over the top – this kid won’t even talk to Alexander, yet alone turn into Freddy Kruger


It says int he action that he is angry. So it is obviously a far different tone to the one you are alluding to here.


Quoted from CoopBazinga

You have to wonder why Danny would get involved in this situation – especially when he’s outnumbered and doesn’t know the victim. This could be his character and I guess I’ll find that out.


Doesn't like Bullies. I think though I'll have him smashing a bottle before giving it the come on. Seen it happen once.



Quoted from CoopBazinga
P.8 “Danny looks in on Alexander” Looks in? Probably should be “looks down at Alexander”


He's in a shop doorway. I'll have to make it clearer that he is still in the doorway.


Quoted from CoopBazinga

“EXT. STREET – NIGHT” You’ve got to have a look at your slugs – street is so generic when you could have it as your destination “EXT. PEACOCK’S…”


I think that having an INT and an EXT PEACOCK'S would be confusing. I get that STREET may be generic, but that is kinda the point. Just film a street.


Quoted from CoopBazinga
“PEACOCKS” Should peacocks have an apostrophe? Personally I’m not sure but you’ve changed from having one to not having one – which is it?


Yes it should.


Quoted from CoopBazinga
“Danny leads Alexander through the club and into the
toilets.”

No changing of slugs, have a mini slug here for toilets IMO.


Fair point. One I missed.


Quoted from CoopBazinga
P.9 “A GUY” A little weak – is it really just some random guy? How about attendant or something. You might as well call him “dude”

And he gets to talk… must have meaning. Showing that Danny is a player in this nightclub and knows the staff. Can’t see any other reason for him to speak. It’s just a GUY after all.


Yeah, ATTENDANT would be better there.


Quoted from CoopBazinga
Now Danny’s snorting coke, are they dealers or just druggies with a lot of money to be handing it out for nothing to strangers.


They are two different things?


Quoted from CoopBazinga
P.10 “Danny throws a couple more lines down.” He’s obviously not just throwing them down right?


Yeah, he is. 'Throws' is slang here for doing something quickly. So yeah he does. I don't mind throwing slang in the action with this script. It enhances the mood.


Quoted from CoopBazinga
“INT. OFFICE - PEACOCK'S NIGHTCLUB – NIGHT” Good to see you’ve changed to dashes but isn’t this the wrong way round? Wouldn’t it be “PEACOCK’S NIGHTCLUB – OFFICE…”?


I used to do it that way and was told by a Hollywood reader that it was wrong.


Quoted from CoopBazinga

“of cocaine and money into a (case.)” What kind of case? Briefcase, suitcase – best to be clear here so we know what Danny’s lugging around.


Thanks, must have missed it. I thought I'd specified a suitcase.


Quoted from CoopBazinga
P.13 Why didn’t Danny just run for the fire escape himself? You need to set this scene up better, Danny has to have a proper reason for handing over the case – all the talking he did Alexander was wasted time when you consider he could of just legged it to the fire escape himself. What if a cop recognises Danny or something like that.


Fair point.


Quoted from CoopBazinga
“hits a six foot fence.” Ouch! Maybe he should have stopped when he saw it.


That's fine here too.


Quoted from CoopBazinga
“Oddball is standing outside Genesis Bar chatting to
the (girls he gave a pill) to earlier and a DOORMAN.”

Did he give them one or two pills? Is this another new doorman, how many have we had so far? Watch out for the nasty “is” which isn’t helping this line, not to mention that you’ve mentioned the slug again which is (no pun) redundant.


Thanks.


Quoted from CoopBazinga

P.14 "Danny sent me." I didn't know that Danny and Alexander got each other's names - guess it's possible during their intimate scene in the toilet when they snorting coke together like old buddies. Also very trusting of Danny - he's just found out this guy has left prison and in way would run off with the case.


Yeah that is a mistake that has been changed in the new draft.


Quoted from CoopBazinga

P.16 "FILTH HQ" Nice but a lot of readers might be confused by this. Perfectly fine in dialogue but I really think you should say Police HQ in the slug for clarity sakes.


Nah, I'm cool with it. If a Producer doesn't get it then he has no rights making a film like this in the first place.


Quoted from CoopBazinga
"Danny winks and (mimes): "It's safe." Was a little confused with this line - what does he actually do to get this message across?


Sticks up his thumb, places thumb and forefinger together. Any of that will do. Unless you imagine him playing charades? LOL, that would be quite funny. I have to watch I don't take the mick out of my own work all the time.


Quoted from CoopBazinga
"Johnny (visibly) relaxes" Watch out for redundant words in the action. "Johnny relaxes"


Thanks.


Quoted from CoopBazinga
"get your head on(..)" Why the two periods? maybe it was originally a ellipsis.


Just a slip. Thanks.


Quoted from CoopBazinga
P.17 "Oddball leads Alexander to a stop outside an apartment block." Again, little things like this could be tightened. "Oddball and Alexander stop outside an apartment block."


Thanks.


Quoted from CoopBazinga

Why such a bug space between your mini slugs? Let's be fair, you could've just started this scene with them walking into the safe house - the parts before are unnecessary unless I missed something.


I'm not sure what you mean about mini slugs. Mini slugs are just slugs miniaturised so they have to be set the same space apart as every other slug. All my slugs should be spaced the same, unless I have slipped.


Quoted from CoopBazinga
The safe room must be important - it's the first room you've described, maybe this is to show that Oddball and his crew have money. They must be pretty big players to have a safe room.


You've lost me here. There is a safe house, but shouldn't be a safe room.


Quoted from CoopBazinga
It's a little confusing, why is Alexander staring at Oddball hard? Doesn't he want to get out of this now. He's done what he had to do.


Get out and do what?


Quoted from CoopBazinga
Why repeat his name here, he's already told Oddball. He comes off mysterious at the moment, no background or anything which I'm guessing is your intention so play up to this. When he's asked "Who the fuck he is?" Why not something like "I'm nobody" I really can't figure Alexander out at the moment.


I'll think about this for a while.


Quoted from CoopBazinga
Even the dialogue at this junction seems weird. "I met your friend tonight" Why not call him Danny, he knows his name and isn't this repeating what we and the characters already know. This scene could be better handled - surely both characters are wary of each other but I don't this is coming out, it's just weird.


Yeah it could be better handled.


Quoted from CoopBazinga
The case had no locks? With how much was in there, you'd think that Johnny and Tony could afford a better suitcase with some security.


I'm not exactly sure what good locks would do.


Quoted from CoopBazinga
"hiding it behind the settee." Great hiding place! He's put a lot thought into that. I guess the only question is, where is the settee in the room? If it's in the middle then it's hardly hiding. How about putting it under the settee or a cabinet - seems more logical.


This is actually a joke that comes up later in the script.


Quoted from CoopBazinga
Now he has coke, he must be a dealer right? But then he's sniffing all the shit. I'm really confused about who these guys are and what they are doing with Tony and Johnny.


It'd be pretty hard to sniff all the shit. There's a lot of money in coke and when you're young and partying all the time, which is the way I remember it, we wouldn't sleep all weekend. Sleep Monday till Thursday and the weekend starts again. You can only get so high, once you start snorting coke you don't hallucinate no matter how much you take. That happens a few days later with the psychosis because of no sleep and your body being run down.


Quoted from CoopBazinga
"You look like one of us now." What does Oddball mean? Alexander's wearing a designer suit while he's wearing casual designer clothes. How do they look the same? Maybe me means that he looks like a proper geezer now, one of the boys.


Yep, he looks like a proper geezer, but that would be a little cliched as nobody really says that any more. We also say things like, looks like a goer, a rower, a head, a bit of a boy etc, etc...


Quoted from CoopBazinga
Oddball and Danny seem quite nice fella's happily sharing out the coke to a complete stranger.


never had that happen to you? When around people like that the drugs are often flowing. plus they cut it all anyway. It's only party coke, sniff it all night... well, you have to. Coke wears off twenty minutes to an hour.



Quoted from CoopBazinga

P.21 "One hundred and Eighty-seven minutes." Who talks like this? Probably should of added the seconds as well. Surely someone would just say "Three hours"


I like it as is. The police have a custody sheet which shows the time you came in.


Quoted from CoopBazinga
Why did Chalmers let him out? I thought there was going to be a reason but nothing happened.

Continuing on:


The police are forever arresting people and then letting them go after not enough evidence to hold them... but you're right, I need to make that clearer.

Revision History (1 edits)
DustinBowcot  -  May 19th, 2013, 12:23pm
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DustinBowcot
Posted: May 19th, 2013, 3:46pm Report to Moderator
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Page 23 - Yep it's Gold... I figure that I don't need to go all the way with that. Gold jewellery, gold watch, gold hair... just a gold theme in general. However the director sees it is cool with me.

Page 24 -  No charges were laid against Danny for the assault. But I'll clean that up.

Yeah Danny works for Johnny and Tony, doesn't mean you have to be scared of the people you work for. They should have just as much fear over you. It's not like you see in the films. In real life it is all about mutual respect. If I were to have Johnny and Tony pushing people around that would be B/S and a cliche. In real life that just doesn't happen.

Hear you on the 'is' thing. I'll clean those up.

“local gangbangers doing what gangbangers do.” What do gangbangers do? This is a bit vague. I’m sure they do lots of things.

Exactly... it says a lot without saying much at all. Smoking weed, making out, fighting... whatever the director sees fit to include in the scene. Plenty of actors willing to work for free just for the acting credit, many of them would kill for speaking roles. That is also my argument against using so many extras... they're free and willing, so why not? The more the merrier.

Page 26 - Yeah he does feel sorry for himself. He feels guilty because he was the last one with the case, and he's just had to take a headbutt. I see things a little differently to you.

Page 28 - I like injecting a bit of comedy. Comedic moments can happen to anyone... although I certainly get your point on it taking something from the antagonist. I like the contrast but it sometimes doesn't pay off, maybe this time it doesn't work.

Delroy hasn't broken into the club in a burglar sense, he owns it legally. Or someone he knows well does. So yeah he would be around to sign paperwork and it's a normal part of life, even for gangsters. However it's unnecessary for him to actually have to sign anything, you're right.


Page - 31 - More coke, yes. You have to keep taking the coke if you want to stay awake. I don't know what the big deal is. I honestly don't. Coke isn't a hard hitting drug. It's mild. Amphetamines hit a lot harder, but even on that you're still not hallucinating no matter how much you take. That can only happen after days of no sleep and your brain starts playing tricks on you.

Same as where all the coke is coming from isn't a big deal. I don't know what your experiences are but mine are far different.

page 34 - walking through the gate is the same as walking through the door. You don't really have to say they open the door first, it kinda goes without saying. Certainly does here in the UK, anyway.

page 37 - In regards to Vincente and the kiss on the cheek, I again saw an opportunity for a little humour and put it in. I don't think this detracts... although it does involve Delroy again, so maybe not a good thing. I'll rethink it, but I still like it for now.

page 39 - Alright an all right are two different things here. Alright is all one word and all right is two. It depends on the tempo.

page 40 - Where is Johnny's crew? he's turned up at the club on his own unaware anyhting is wrong there.

page 44 - They already figured out on page 43.

page 45 - he's pulling the coke from his groin.

page 50 - Johnny isn't relying on them to get the case back. He's relying on them to get the 200 large to pay off the Turks. That's clear in the script, you must have missed that part. Did you skim at all?

Page 52 - yeah he was 16, I spotted that one myself.
page 53 - I agree, the scene with the car is messy. I admit, I wrote him stealing the car and remembered he only had one hand... so I decided to make it funny instead. Doesn't work with the two scenes together, I did see that.

page 54 - The waggling his dick thing... yeah, I like a bit of comedy thrown in. I think these types of things are so open to comedy, so easy, that I just can't help myself. Besides, criminals do have a laugh while they operate... just like anyone else with a job to do. Laughing helps pass the time.

page 55 - again on the workmen... extras come free.

page 56 - Yes the plastic gun does look like a real gun. Yes everyone gets a turn driving. It's how friends operate. One guy complains... I drove last time, so the decent thing to do is take a turn yourself, isn't it?

page 67 - Point taken on the urgency.

page 70 - It's a psychological thing. After just doing something crazy adrenalin pumps around your body, give you the shakes. So you have to remind yourself that you haven't done anything wrong, it's just a normal day, you've just ran for the bus or something, time to calm down. It helps to have a voice like that around you, especially if you're new. Also if the police pass they will race right by with hardly a second glance in your direction.

Yeah in regards to driving calmly... when driving away from the scene of a robbery, it is not only the driving you need to control it is also your mindset, as your legs can shake on their own. it's just adrenalin, but it's important to keep calm and that will subside. Also not good to have shaky legs while driving.

page 72 - point taken, I'll clean that up. It is very shaky around there.


Yeah I will need to work on the Russian connection. I think the baby will have to be snatched... a lacky supposed to kill it, but obviously he cannot bring himself to and puts the baby outside a hospital. The actor playing Alexander will also play his father... so it will be obvious to the viewer and make the Bear's recognition more realistic.

“Make sure (she) dead” she’s.

No honestly, I wrote that deliberately. It's in dialogue and Delroy switches from patois to his native British accent just like a lot of other black people I know do.

When the fire door closes they are trapped in a bricked-up alleyway.

I get the point on Alexander needing to find out about his background earlier.

If the rules are broken then it's a war. the big boys don't go to war. It's like the West, we use extremists to fight our battles for us. We used the Afghans to fight a war against Russia for twenty years. Testing out our weapons, arming certain warlords and occupying territories. We didn't actually go to war against Russia ourselves though. That would be insane.

Gangsters like fishing too. Why not? I don't see why I should hit every cliche.

Bouncer search people to take their drugs and then sell them back to them. Everyone gets searched when going into a club... aside from, funnily enough, the actual gun men.

Yeah I'll work on the ending. I figured the RPG would be too much.

Thanks for the read, many of the things you've said have been a great help.
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CoopBazinga
Posted: May 20th, 2013, 11:45am Report to Moderator
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Hey Dustin,

Thanks for coming back, glad that my feedback was helpful and gives you some ideas for the second draft. I’m not going to counter-argue every point with you as most my notes or suggestions were merely my opinion and I would of course never expect anyone to agree with anything I said… although I can’t help thinking they should.

In saying that:


Quoted from DustinBowcot
We say Bar and Pub here... both are recognised and accepted.


You’re quite right, they are. But it would certainly help clean up that scene for clarity and keep in with the British tone. Like for example, if I spoke to someone at the pub and they asked me where Terry was, I’d say “He’s at the bar” It’s up to you – it’s literally changing a word and it could make a big difference.


Quoted from DustinBowcot
This is how I was recently told to do it by a Hollywood gatekeeper. The Knight's Arms would be an INT, so the setting is actually outside the pub and not on its roof or anything. I feel it's clear enough which is the important thing. I could change Street to CAR PARK, I suppose... but it doesn't really make any difference. It's the street outside the pub.


A Hollywood gatekeeper? Certainly don’t want argue with one of them! All I can say from my experience is that I have never seen anybody do it this way. No drama’s, that’s your preference. I just don’t understand why you have to have it? If you’re “EXT” then your outside, I thought it was simple and I do love simplicity – it can make for a cleaner read. No biggie though, it doesn’t matter to the story.


Quoted from DustinBowcot
When you're out and about and have bag fulls of drugs you often give them out like sweets to people you know... regulars on the scene. You get groupies, girls that are always around off their tits on whatever.

Nobody wants to be alone. It doesn't matter how big you are you could be taken down and robbed in an instant. Even by street thugs. Wrong moment in time, w2hat you going to do? Talk about how big you are? Nope... in real life, it doesn't matter how big you think you are, if you end up on your own, you're just a man on your own.


I think you’re thinking too much into this, this maybe how it happens but it’s almost impossible to get this across. You need to think what the reader is seeing, and how they are going to portray what you’re characters are doing. But this also counters why he was nervous, if he was getting groupies together for some kind of protection then why be nervous? I do understand what you’re saying but this isn’t being shown on the page IMO… did you say if they were drug dealers or not?


Quoted from DustinBowcot
They are separate. Not sure why that is confusing to you. I'm reading it now and it seems crystal to me.


We all read things differently and of course it’s crystal to you – you wrote it. I guess the point I was trying to make is, why have “drunken” revellers walk by, then a group of three males “drunk” in the very next segment? If they’re not the same, are the revellers needed at all? Can you see why I would be confused by the two expressions which our two apparent groups shared?  Hopefully you can because it will help you to understand how people other than “you” the writer can be confused.


Quoted from DustinBowcot
They're drunk. It would be understood here.


I personally think it wouldn’t and of course that is my opinion of many, many nights out on the piss where I never once did this or saw anybody else do this. But of course we have different experiences so you may have seen this happen - it was only a side comment and no biggie, just reminded me of an episode of the Simpsons where Lisa and Homer are not talking to one another around the dinner table and I found it amusing.


Quoted from DustinBowcot
It says int he action that he is angry. So it is obviously a far different tone to the one you are alluding to here.


I agree, it is a different tone and again I was only having a little fun with the situation (I do that if you didn’t notice, think it makes you the author a little relaxed and able to have a laugh) I think the problem with this word is it’s a cheesy line to use in the circumstances. I really hope you and your mates didn’t use this, plenty of other words to use in this situation.


Quoted from DustinBowcot
I think that having an INT and an EXT PEACOCK'S would be confusing. I get that STREET may be generic, but that is kinda the point. Just film a street.


I now understand why you do this in your slugs, you think it makes it less confusing and I can appreciate that. I still don’t think it’s unnecessary, readers should be reading the slug but at least I see you reasoning to do it. Thanks for sharing.


Quoted from DustinBowcot
They are two different things?


Fair comment. Legally you’re right but I didn’t explain myself properly – I meant in context to the characters. There is a difference to help me understand who they are.


Quoted from DustinBowcot
I used to do it that way and was told by a Hollywood reader that it was wrong.


But what worked best for you? Nothing is wrong… well apart from obvious things but there is no wrong way here. I would say that your way now is more unusual, not wrong. I would say 75% (obvious a rough estimate) of scripts you read, pro and amateur will have it the other way round. Actually, I now feel I need to go back and look at a few scripts – I’m second guessing myself.


Quoted from DustinBowcot
I'm not sure what you mean about mini slugs. Mini slugs are just slugs miniaturised so they have to be set the same space apart as every other slug. All my slugs should be spaced the same, unless I have slipped.


You’re not slipping, they were pretty consistent. This is preference, you doubled spaces your mini’s and I think it’s unnecessary BUT… this is my opinion. Your way is fine but you would save some space by not doing it.


Quoted from DustinBowcot
You've lost me here. There is a safe house, but shouldn't be a safe room.


This is my slip – meant safe house. It was just the living room I meant in general, it was the first room to get a description so it felt important.


Quoted from DustinBowcot
I'm not exactly sure what good locks would do.


Nothing! But it again it would show some characteristics, these guys are safety conscious for example but knowing these guys, it’s unlikely.


Quoted from DustinBowcot
The police are forever arresting people and then letting them go after not enough evidence to hold them... but you're right, I need to make that clearer.


I didn’t mean that. Sorry, I should have been clearer. I meant why is Chalmers letting him out? He could have left it to the custody sergeant. To have the DI come down let you out personally but not say anything meaningful seems a waste and the fact that we never see Chalmers again, is it necessary?

I’ll look at some the other comments tomorrow; it’s a little late here.

Hopefully you don’t mind me coming back, I do think it can help and I appreciate you clarifying or thanking me for some of the points I raised.

Have a good one.
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