Right on.  Let me gather my thoughts, and I'll jump in.

I'm willing to explore other areas of Jeff's script.

I personally liked the Satan aspect, but wanted to see more.  Or at least feel his "presence"  earlier in the script.
If the end flashback of Xavier/Satan is removed from the story, would anybody guess he was behind the murders?

Another matter that Jeff can clarify, is the service Xavier provides to Tobias, Carlie and Danny one of "only" materialistic gain?  Satan should offer something no mortal man could give.

Satan, huh?  OK.  So why does Satan care if children are killed?

Quoted from bert Satan, huh?  OK.  So why does Satan care if children are killed?

Hey, Bert.  This is a question I asked Jeff in an earlier post.  It's all about consistency.  Satan shouldn't care.  I suggested that Tobias should back away from killing the little boy and thus, Satan punishes him.
But Jeff has set up "rules" and maybe he has a valid reason for Satan not killing kids. But the rules have to be very clear to the viewer.  Should be interesting to read his reply.

I think that if X is Satan then it has to be clear to the reader and viewer that this is the character we are dealing with.  There can be the story of X in the sequel but any Satanic reveal about this character should happen in this script.  

Quoted from mcornetto I think that if X is Satan then it has to be clear to the reader and viewer that this is the character we are dealing with.  There can be the story of X in the sequel but any Satanic reveal about this character should happen in this script.

I absolutely agree with you, Mike. It seems Jeff wants to explain stuff in the sequel, but he really has to make the story work here and now.

Hey, if you want positive feedback, show your screenplay to your mommy!  She'll tell you how great it is, and how smart and handsome you are too boot!    

Seriously though, take this criticism in the spirit that it's given.  Other than Shelton, who sleeps on large piles of money every night with beautiful supermodels, we're all struggling screenwriters just trying to get something written and written well.  Nobody here is trying to attack you, or belittle you.  We're just trying to help you out by pointing out the aspects of your screenplay that need to be worked on a little more.

And I think you have gotten some real positive feedback on the second half of the script.  People really enjoy the second half of the script and have said so repeatedly!  

Quoted from seamus19382 Other than Shelton, who sleeps on large piles of money every night with beautiful supermodels, we're all struggling screenwriters just trying to get something written and written well.

If only that were true.  The first part, I mean.  The second part is very true.

I tried that Seamus, but she dislikes profanity, vulgar and unbeautiful things, and mostly, violence.  Same with my sister.  I could just read it myself again and gvie myself a few slaps on the back I guess.

That's why I don't show my husband anything I write. He only likes nice movies with nice people doing what's right. I personally prefer "bad" movies with bad people doing what's bad.

If I did show him something "nice" he would LOVE it even if it sucked really really bad. I just can't do anything wrong in his eyes.  

  This is why I had a problem with the logline because it was vague, and I felt it was clear that the writer didn’t want to give away secrets, big idea or what have you and even that would have been fine but it my fear was that it would continue into the story. In the script it’s too hidden that even this story is a vague to the story he really wants to tell which is suppose to be in the sequel.


  And I do like parts of the story, like kill where Danny gets one of the girls to come out to the shed with him, and we the audience know that Danny has killed the person that he claims wants to see her, I’m blanking on the names here. But when the get to the shed and Danny and the girl try to sneak up on the guy, who’s dead, really Danny is sneaking up on the girl this all great subtext. The description part read quickly, the imagery was great with the door opening.


  The scene where the lady smashes into the rock was great because she was a casualty of the elements, which I always like, rather than another victim of homicide.


  Again when Abe suggest that Dream puts the Satan, along with the more of rules in the story, I’m sure that either Dream doesn’t want to in order to keep this whole “what’s going on” atmosphere or he believe he has put in a enough things that we should get it and he’s figuring out that he hasn’t which will be valuable to him. It’s what getting reviewed is about, are you as the writer conveying what you want in your story, and in this case of Satan it’s not getting through.


I got a question for you guys, how much do you think logline matters when it comes to trying to sell a script? And, do you think you tell a lot about the script and its writer based on the logline?

I ask because I hear a lot about prodcuers or agents or what ever how decide within 1 to 10 pages whether the stories any good. If the first page is good, read the next ten if that's good read the next 20, if that's good commit and read the whole thing.

About the logline. I guess it is rather weak and from what I understand they are really important. Some people, like Phil for example has said many times that he won't read a script if the logline is not interesting to him. Personally, I NEVER look at them. I do however read one page, then ten and then 20 and so on if I like what I'm reading.

This logline seems a bit clunky to me, but I rather have a clunky one than one that gives too much away.

And about the positive parts, I too liked the script once they got to the house. The killing of the girl in the shed was the best one I think. The other killing happened a little too quick. Idon't think it would be that hard though to add some suspense before each one.

Hey you guys, thanks so much for keeping this going and moving on to other things.  Totally appreciate it!

Sorry for not jumping in like I said I would but I've had a few things going on, and in an hour I've got my big Fantasy Football draft, which will take most of the day.  I'll comment on recent discussion tomorrow, and if things slow down, I'll give my general comments as well, other wise, I'll hold off a bit.

Thanks again!

OK, I'm back...big weekend of football.  I'll respond to recent comments and see if this thread continues on or slows down.  When it's all done, I will comment on everything.

First new subject seems to involve Xavier's limited and late reveal.  As a few have commented correctly, I wanted to leave things very vague and ambiguous, both in general and with X.  I think with visuals, everyone would realize that X isn't a normal guy, and would start to question just who or what he really is, which is the idea I'm going for.  I don't think things always need to be so cut and dry, and when they're not, it opens things up for discussion and thought.  I think Carlie will be asked to kill Tobias, as someone else brought up also, which will make more sense when Danny asks for the gun in the Schaefer house, because he's never killed anyone with a gun before.

By revealing X in the missing scenes section, I'm basically trying to go for another surprise, twist, and after the fact revelation.  I think it's a good way to end with a question mark, and also opens things up for the sequel.  If you look at Hostel, for instance, in the original, you never knew what the reasoning was for what was going on at all, but in Hostel 2, the inner workings were revealed.  Even the original Saw ended with what turned out to be the real story of the entire franchise.

So basically, I personally really like the late reveal and ambiguity of X and what he is, as well as what he has to do with the story.

As for "the rules" of the story and what's in it for Tobias, Danny, and Carlie?  Again, although I know what the answers are, at this point, I want my audience guessing, so to speak.  As far as I'm concerned, these issues aren't important in this story.  This story is about Danny and Carlie's killing spree.  The real story going on behind the scenes is only hinted at, and brought up very late in the game.

Earlier, I had some suggestions from people that I should say what Tobias was getting out of his killing spree in Steamboat, but I decided against it, as I didn't think it was at all vital to this story.  I still feel that way, and only hinted at the funding of Danny's office as "payment" for their services.

As Bee said, I definitely do not want to introduce X earlier or reveal anything else, as I am definitely going for the "what's going on here" atmosphere.  Based on what I'm getting back, I think it actually works because people seem genuinely upset about how slow the first 1/3 - 1/2 of the script is (after the opening scene), which in a strange way, is what I wanted, assuming the payoff was worth the entire ride.  Most seem to really like the 2nd half, once things get going, and this to me says that nothing else really needs to be revealed earlier.  I think people should try to take this (and everything else for that matter) for what it is, and that's a fun, wild ride with a bunch of brutal kills.

I do plan on making some changes, 1 being that I think I reveal Danny's dark side much earlier, and have him kill his first hapless victim before he gets to the bar (while Carlie's shopping), so once everyone's introduced, the tension should be higher because you know there's a killer in the midst.

What do you think about that idea?

I like that idea. Keep us from knowing that Carlie is in on it too so we worry about her as well.