Cool, thanks Pia.  I've been thinking about this for awhile, and I think I not only like it, but I think it will work and add alot of extra tension as well.  Also, once Danny is introduced as a killer, I can have his actions and dialogue vary quite a bit from where they are now.

Someone suggested earlier in here that when Carlie tells the group that she did a good job with Danny and that he's a good guy, and then asks Danny, "Aren't you?", he shoudl respond with something like, "Most of the time".  I think thsi would work really well if we all know that danny isn't such a good guy after all.

I sorta like that idea, Dreamscale, but I think it would definitely lessen the tension in the shed scene later on.

I think you should include an extra character during the bar scene. When they step into some private area of the bar (outside for a smoke, restroom, maybe a storage room because they work at the bar), someone unknown approaches this person and kills them while the others are oblivious.

That way, you still establish there is a killer in the bar (and we're still suspecting the guy from the beginning, not Danny). It also keeps the shed scene effective and surprising.

But it's your script, man. You're the director at this point, and I'm just happy you're gonna put some action in where it's needed.

Yeah Chris, I definitely hear ya in that everything will be different if I do reveal Danny earlier, and you're right on in that the shed scene will have a much different vibe.  I've been thinking about this for awhile now and most of the time, I think it will work better, but others I go back to my original thinking and like the fact that the shed scene comes as a complete surprise.

By having a kill and not showing the identity of the killer, I feel like it will come off as every other mystery slasher out there, and I don't like that, but it would make you think that Tobias is back in town.

I'll keep toying with it and make a decision soon.

Thanks for your input!

I disagree Sham.
Because we know what he is capable of, we would be on the edge of ours seats hoping she gets away...  

Ah, the beauty of personal opinion, and a perfect example of a point I've been wanting to bring up.

I think in literally every single movie that I've seen (and know well), there are many instances of things that I would have changed, added, removed, etc.  I bet it's the same way with each and every viewer, at least those that take some time and actually think about what they saw.  There's just no way around this.

It comes down to what the writer decides to do (and yes, the director as well!), and whether it works or not is based on the sum of all the parts.  It's very rare, for me at least, when a single scene or the like will ruin an otherwise solid effort.  Yeah, there is that rare occasion when something is just so "wrong" that it does decide the fate of the entire project, bot not usually.

It's funny how different people feel completely different about the same thing, as in movies, music, books, anything.  It's literally impossible to please everyone all the time, but in understanding that, it makes perfect sense.

Sorry people!  I've been absent for a while...so I have just read through the current threads to see where we are.

I understand what Dreamscale is saying, "That everyone has a different opinion."  We all do...and I suppose there is good reason to keep Tobias as suspect by adding in an earlier surprise killing so that when Danny walks to the shed for the first kill the viewer is completely surprised....on the other hand...if they knew he did the earlier kill they might be onthe edge of their seat, holding their breath knowing that something is going to happen.  It's a double edged sword for sure.

I think what I get from Carlie and Danny is that there is monetary gain...the kids aren't designated for the kill but randomly picked.  What I guess I am trying to wrap my mind around is that this is the first time they have killed anyone and they are doing it for Danny's practice...so money.  Even though the end result is what is driving them...I think most people would have doubts or question themselves and I think there are ways that could be written in without giving anything away....like Dreamscale wrote in when they blew the tire - which is in the credit section.

Maybe Danny could add the fact that he's not really that ruthless and has his reasons for killing them...

There are a number of things I really like about the script.  I like Dreamscales ability to "write" in a way that I could literally visualize the scenes.  I also liked the way he brought one piece together with the next...like the kids in the second car driving by the cop while he was checking out Danny and Carlie's car in the road....the use of the snow flakes to bring us to a new scene and Danny walking into the house as Carlie is walking up the steps as if in unison.

I also liked the Jill and Bobbie aspect...it adds suspense from afar and hope for the people that are in the house...will she fall victim...only to the rock/snow...and the dogs added some pay back to Danny when he came out of the shed.

My favorite scene is when Carlie steps into the closet with Meg.  At that point we still don't know that Carlie is in on anything and the insinuation of a female attraction here is written extremely well...precise with the slow teasing moment of eye contact! GREAT JOB! *wink*  

I think Dreamscale is begging for help with the logline....so I feel we should spend some time on that to see if we can help him nail it down.

I too think that there has been a lot of positive input written here that should help smooth the script out...which should help Dreamscale when it gets into the hands of an agent...

Dream a little dream!!

~morgan

I do agree that an early kill before D/C get to the bar is a Must.

I can go either way on the reveal of Danny.  It's all dependent on your execution, Jeff.
However ---  Revealing Danny's dark side early, while keeping us in the dark about Carlie's nature, would definitely be unique.
Can you recall any films in which one killer is revealed Early and the partner (killer) is kept under wraps?
I think I've seen variations on this in police/killer thrillers in which a member of the police might be in on the murders -- but that is a different setup.  
Anyway, if you reveal Danny early, I'm for it.  I like the twist.

One thing I thought would be cool, was to see somebody else (unidentifiable) in the house, when Tobias wipes out the Patterson family.  This mysterious person could be smoking a cigarette off to the side.  There is no action on this individual's part, other than to observe.
This could be X.  
We would then wonder if Tobias has a partner...  and later, if that partner would be Danny.

Going back to Danny and Carlie,  if we know Danny's a killer early on, his dialogue with Carlie would have a different Edge.  
Could be good for the script, too, since most of us don't like the lovey-dovey stuff.

I still think if Carlie's pregnant it works well with her being viewed as vulnerable.  She could be at the store shopping for baby stuff, while Danny's out and about on his killing thing.

Anyway you handle it, I'm just in favor of ratcheting the tension earlier.  And since kills/action is your strong suit, Jeff, we could be in for some very energized grue.

Thanks for the input Abe.

I'm actually looking at this right now.  The kill would start on page 12 and go into 13, so it would be quite early IMO.  To reveal it's Danny doing the killing or keep it as an unidentified killer is still up in the air with me.  I see pluses and minuses with each.  I will do away with the cat scene or incorporate the kill into that scene, and then have Danny walking away singing "Sweet Home Alabama".  If he goes for an onscreen kill, that singing scene just may be alot more powerful...and creepy.

Although I like your idea of having a mysterious, unseen character observe the Patterson kills, I don't like it because it just doesn't really work or make sense, because the Pattersons are a random target, and no one would be able to infiltrate their house prior to Tobias making his entrance.  I also think it kinda clutters things up and makes things a bit too murky.

As for Carlie being prego, I don't like it, because it changes what she is capable of in terms of her kills.  It also does away with the baby talk she has with Danny early on, which, for me at least, works well and paints them as a nice loving couple.

Question for ya, though...after all you've heard now about Xavier and his late reveal, do you think it's OK as is?  What I'm getting at is, for me, the idea was just to throw out 1 more late reveal and surprise adn leave it very ambiguous so each viewer can draw their own conclusion.

Let me know and thanks again for all your great input and ideas.

Quoted from Dreamscale The kill would start on page 12 and go into 13, so it would be quite early IMO.  To reveal it's Danny doing the killing or keep it as an unidentified killer is still up in the air with me.  I see pluses and minuses with each.  I will do away with the cat scene or incorporate the kill into that scene, and then have Danny walking away singing "Sweet Home Alabama".  If he goes for an onscreen kill, that singing scene just may be alot more powerful...and creepy.

Yeah, the singing could give a creepy effect.  Makes me think of "The Lady in White," in which the killer whistles a cute little tune, identifying him as the murderer.   Not sure if Danny is supposed to sing that tune again, but that's your call.

Quoted from Dreamscale Although I like your idea of having a mysterious, unseen character observe the Patterson kills, I don't like it because it just doesn't really work or make sense, because the Pattersons are a random target, and no one would be able to infiltrate their house prior to Tobias making his entrance.  I also think it kinda clutters things up and makes things a bit too murky.

This makes as much sense as Satan being behind the killings.  Satan or some evil entity could be anywhere at any time.  Barriers are nothing to such a being.  That's what separates him from mortals.  
I thought if we see X's presence in the Patterson killing, it would give us a hint of Satan's presence early in the story.   We the audience would then go back and say, Ah, that was Xavier.  Just a thought.

Quoted from Dreamscale As for Carlie being prego, I don't like it, because it changes what she is capable of in terms of her kills.  It also does away with the baby talk she has with Danny early on, which, for me at least, works well and paints them as a nice loving couple.

Carlie doesn't have to be that pregnant.  It shouldn't interfere with her ability to kill.  I was thinking how unique Marge was in "Fargo."  She was way pregnant and was still doing her job.  HAHA.  As for painting "them as a nice, loving couple," well isn't that the whole point?  We're supposed to think they're lovey dovey, so when they go Serial, it's a surprise.  Hmmm....

Quoted from Dreamscale Question for ya, though...after all you've heard now about Xavier and his late reveal, do you think it's OK as is?  What I'm getting at is, for me, the idea was just to throw out 1 more late reveal and surprise adn leave it very ambiguous so each viewer can draw their own conclusion.

Well, this goes back to having X in the house when Tobias murders the Pattersons.  I'm for a little hint that X is in the story before we get to the rewind stuff.  The little clever hint (you can think of something better, perhaps) allows the viewer to trace back and search for the clue.  That's always cool.
It will make for a more satisfying journey.
As I've said before, I like the X character.  I will goes as far as to say X makes this story for me.  I just want to know in a subtle way, that he is part of the story before his reveal at the end.

Anyway, it's shaping up pretty good.  By adding the early kill, I think you're on the right track.  Like I said, you do butchery pretty good, so I look forward to some nasty blood-letting before we get to the Schaefer house.

Danny's definitely a music lover.  You may recall that he whistled "Somehwere over the Rainbow" after kiiling both Jake and Lisa, which I thought was pretty cool and creepy at the same time.  He also loves Edguy and isn't too crazy about Buck Cherry.

As for Xavier having the ability to be anywhere and without boundaries, I don't agree.  Each movie (or book, whatever) has the ability to paint such beings, creatures, what have you, with it's own traits, powers, etc.  The Devil has taken on quite a few different  personnas over the years, and each has it's own rules, so to speak.  Xavier definitey has powers and abilities that are far from mere mortals, but in my vision, he is pretty much bound by human/mortal characteristics and limitations.

I really want this script and concept to be taken for what it is, and that's an exercise in killing.  I don't want this to be supernatural in any way, until the very end. I see the sequel as having alot more supernatural themes and goings ons.  In this one, the story is Danny and Carlie on a killing spree.  I wanted to give a "why are they doing this" rationale in the end that is both surprisingly and ambiguous, so that each viewer can draw their own conclusions.  And then, in the sequel, bring in the true revelatrions and even some crazy evil stuff as well.

I can definitely see your point on Carlie being prego, but I don't think I'm going to go that route.  If she was prego, she wouldn't be able to drink the way she does and she wouldn't be as goofy, cause she'd be sober.  It would take away a few scenes in which she's partying, and I like those scenes cause I feel it gives some light hearted humor right before things get ugly.

Abe, as I've said before, I totally appreciate your comments. You're full of great ideas, and you relate those ideas in a very positive way, so that the writer really cares and thinks about what you've said.

Do you have a script I could read of yours?  I definitely owe you that and would be happy to help in any way I could.

[quote=Abe_from_LA]
This makes as much sense as Satan being behind the killings.  Satan or some evil entity could be anywhere at any time.  Barriers are nothing to such a being.  That's what separates him from mortals.  
I thought if we see X's presence in the Patterson killing, it would give us a hint of Satan's presence early in the story.   We the audience would then go back and say, Ah, that was Xavier.  Just a thought.

I'm for a little hint that X is in the story before we get to the rewind stuff.  The little clever hint (you can think of something better, perhaps) allows the viewer to trace back and search for the clue.  That's always cool.
It will make for a more satisfying journey.
As I've said before, I like the X character.  I will goes as far as to say X makes this story for me.  I just want to know in a subtle way, that he is part of the story before his reveal at the end.

Hi All -

I like the dialogue going on between Abe and DS.  Somehow I feel that the overall story would be better "formed" with a little of the "why" with mysterious Mr. X.  I too believe he is a very dominant part of this script and sounds like he will hold a more prominent place and explanation in the sequel.

An evil entity is just that...whether he is Satan or just demonic...I think with the fact that DS is going for reality without moving into the "fictional" aspects....it is important to keep Mr. X "real."  So to me he is just a very evil, corrupt, person displaying a demonic persona who's mind and soul have been sold out.  Many of the most facinating and terrifying real stories we have seen have been real people who's minds have twisted their reality with the web of religious evil aspirations...people wanting to be like God...professing they are...it's horrifying!  So Mr. X to me is someone who has taken that on in his head...he has satistfied the lust of the flesh in controlling others by having them agree to sell their souls by taking the lives of innocent people for money or whatever their "greed" is.  I don 't know where DS wants to go in his Sequel...but me being who I am...I would even like Carlie and Dan to come back in the story as people who wrestled with their decision, after the fact - and have to somehow make it right...in their effort to regain their souls...X becomes the ultimate target...but maybe that's sequel #3 =)))  

I know I may sound redundant...but it seems the "why" is an important aspect to most who have read Fade to White and responed here.  Most feel it needs to be somehow written in so that things come together better.  Right now I think maybe it is a bit of a "gray" area as to that "why.".  Dreamscale maybe you can run us through a few of your thoughts that run a little deeper on this topic.  

I do understand that you want X's involvement to have more of a "shadow" on the overall story...but could it be written in with more insight without giving everything away.  I think I mentioned on one of my earlier posts (before you could respond) a while back that some additional aspects could be revealed with X talking to someone...it could even be on the phone, where he is in the shadows...his narly fingernails wrapped around the phone and cigar smoke curling in his dark study...speaking in a way that gives away his dark soul and his ability to manipulate the lives of humans who are "beneath" him...his business is becoming their God...and their payment is written in the blood of those who sell their souls by taking lives.

Because he is eveil/eccentric...I can understand that he can make his own rules about playing his game his way...so Tobias is killed for killing a child...did he care about the child...not at all...but he did care that someone didn't follow his rules...that's the evilness of the man...Mr. X...at least how I see it.  

I agree with Abe...X is the story...he brings the pupose and answers the "why's."  For instance...just like in the recent Batman - the story of the Joker is revealed in more detail...but he has always been a part of the "Batman" story and plot...without him there was really no story...there had to be an evil, sinister catalyst for people to "buy in."  X can have the same weight with your screenplay and set up all that takes place... Overall he is a skilled "puppet master" who derails people's lives while giving them what they want therefore it lays the blame on their own concience and the blood they spill will never Fade to White...those "pictures" will always be in their heads festering...and that to me is terrifying.

Hope some of this helps...

MBCgirl
P.S.  I also think if X were more a part of establishing the story...there might be a better logline in there too!

P.S.S.  Maybe on the phone he is getting the report of the Tobias killings and has some evil things to say that add to the thickening of the plot...

Logline idea absed on above mentions.  Durango is also called Purgatory and I looked up some info on it and this is what I got:  Sin and final glorification are utterly incompatible. Therefore, between the sinfulness of this life and the glories of heaven, we must be made pure. Between death and glory there is a purification.

Thus, the Catechism of the Catholic Church states: "All who die in God’s grace and friendship, but still imperfectly purified, are indeed assured of their eternal salvation; but after death they undergo purification, so as to achieve the holiness necessary to enter the joy of heaven. The Church gives the name purgatory to this final purification of the elect, which is entirely different from the punishment of the damned" (CCC 1030–1).

The concept of an after-death purification from sin and the consequences of sin is also stated in the New Testament .

So if X is the evil soul...maybe he has a twisted belief that he offers his own form of purgatory to those who are killed...or maybe to those who perform the killings...

The logline:

Up for a fantastic weekend of skiing in the snow white mountains of Purgatory, Colorado, Dan and Carlie meet up with Jake and Lisa and their entourage of friends at the Horny Toad Bar. Things turn deadly when the rules of the game begin...who will survive and who controls the strings...in "Fade to White."

I see how you want this to play out, Jeff, so I'm redirecting my perspective.  Because you are not saying that X is Satan, you can flex the rules.  It will be an interpretation thing, and as MBCGirl said, the viewer can perceive him as Satan or an evil man --  at least in this story.
And since X's powers and identity will be in the next script, I can see that you don't want to make him the focus of "Fade."  I do agree that once X becomes prominent in the story line, interest will probably shift his way.  Thus, I would probably like the sequel better.  X marks the spot.

Quoted from Dreamscale In this one, the story is Danny and Carlie on a killing spree.  I wanted to give a "why are they doing this" rationale in the end that is both surprisingly and ambiguous, so that each viewer can draw their own conclusions.  And then, in the sequel, bring in the true revelations and even some crazy evil stuff as well.

How do you pitch this?  If somebody were to question you, how do you adequately give a synopsis of Fade without the story sounding like a garden-variety kill fest?  Maybe we should re-explore the logline and come up with a good pitch, so Jeff can be prepared for whatever questions a producer or exec. will throw at him.
Jeff, do you have a new logline?  How about a synopsis?
Does anybody want to give this a go?
Trying to keep the conversation going here.

Quoted from Dreamscale Do you have a script I could read of yours?  I definitely owe you that and would be happy to help in any way I could.

Working on a short, Jeff.  Will let you know when it's done.  Thanks.

I think that's a good idea Abe. My problem is I really really suck at loglines and I've never written a synopsis... Take too much concentration.  

MBCgirl,

I liked your logline!!  I think it's a good start. Maybe it can get tightened just a wee bit. But it's definitely a good start.