I'll jump back in here in a few minutes guys.  Thanks so much MBC for getting this moving agian.  I definitely need help with a synupsis and logline.  As Pia said, I too suck at loglines and synopsis'.  I think it's very, very hard to give away a complete story in a few sentences, without giving away too much.

I've got to get a project done, then I'll chime back in.

OK, I'm back!

Thanks MBC Girl for your comments.  I appreicate them very much.

As I've said before, and even recently to Abe, my intention with this is to showcase Danny and Carlie...first, as a real, believable, and likeable couple on vacation who meet up with a group of people, and then as vicious, devious killers.   For me, the highlights, in terms of a filmed version of this script would be the shock, coming out of left field that Danny and Carlie aren't what we thought they were, and then, the kills, horror, and tension that builds because of it.  Revealing Xavier at the end as the influence behind all this, is meant to bring up questions, and thoughts for what it all really means, but not take center stage from what already transpired.

I see that bringing up X in this way is causing people to lose sight of what this script really is.  I guess it's that people want the script to be more than it's meant to be, and I understand and appreciate that for sure, but as I often say, "it is, what it is".

Bringing in X earlier could definitely work in a number of ways, but to me, it would be really muddying the waters, so to speak, and making things too complicated.  It would also change the feel and storyline.  I personally love late, surprising reveals, and the more ambiguous they are, the more it makes me think and read in my own conclusions.

MBCgirl, your comments on what or who Xavier is, is actually just what I'm after here.  There isn't anything that's said or shwon that screams out that he's Satan, and that's exactly the way I wanted it to be. Many have thought that he was just some sort of mafia guy or the like.  In the filmed version of this, his appearance would immediately raise questions as to who or what he really is, but nothing would be written in stone.

Also, although there's nothing here that would allow you to know this, but Danny, Carlie, and even Tobias don't actually know what they're getting themselves into when they agree to kill for X.  This will be brought up in the sequel and whether or not Danny and Carlie repent on their sins, remains to be seen.

Also MBC, as you said, X makes his own rules, and his reasons for not killing children are unknown to us.  But they do seem to fall in line with his other rules of not bringing weapons, and "picking" random targets.  As he says, "It's a level playing field.  Those are the rules".  Why are these the rules?  We don't know at ths point, but I don't see why they need to be questioned either.  How does X find the people he wants to "recruit"?  We don't know that either (yet), but it shouldn't really be an issue, because it doesn't come into play in this story.

PS  I like the line about "the blood they spill will never fade to white".  Maybe that could be somewhere in the logline, which I do really need help with.

Thanks again for your well thought out comments.

OK MBCgirl, got to say that I forgot that Durango Mountain Resort used to be called Purgatory.  I think it's because the Purgatory river runs through it.

Don't take this the wrong way, but I don't like the logline you came up with (but I don't like the one I came up with either!).  I do like the reference to Purgatory, and I think I can ( and will!) add something about the mountain being called Purgatory into the banter at the bar.  It would probably add an ominous tone to the rather "meaningless" and lighthearted banter that's going on.  I would also remove some other banter that doesn't need to be there to make room for this.

Actually, I like this idea alot.  I read a really good script in here called "Starvation Gulch" (which very few have read or commented on, BTW, probably because the author doesn't partake in reading any others work) awhile back, and 1 thing that i really liked was how he gave some "real" history to the location through dialogue about how it got it's name.  It just made everything seem so much more real, and I think this is a great idea.

Thanks so much for bringing this up!!

What do you guys think about this idea?

Hi DS...thanks for the comments...I think though that there is a real question here for people and that relates to the fact that you don't have any set up for X until the end during credit roles...so do you really want to "chance" and agent or producer, etc. hoping that they "get" what you are trying to do?  It could mean the difference on getting your screenplay read versus having it pitched to file 13.  

I'm not tryin g to be mean...as obviously the opening killing of Tobias definitely kick the story off, but Danny and Carlie somehow have to become credible killers and they just don't seem to be.  I know you can't reveal everything but I still think there should be something to build the story line...ah...but that's only my opinion

Does anyone else have some feelings about that???

I do like the idea of adding some dialogue about Purgatory just to add another layer of suspense.  You are certainly good at writing as I think ABE suggested....so it will be interesting to see the changes you make...since I don't know how this works really...will we get to see the revised version when it is done?

~m~

Hey Abe, yes, you are right on the money...exactly!  That's exactly what I'm going for and exactly why I don't want more of X here.  Consider it kinda like a bonus song on a CD...whether or not you actually like the additional song, it shouldn't sway what you think about the entire CD.  Some will like this added extra, and others won't, but it's after the fact and not the focus of the story.  Some will read into X and others won't.  But if nothing else, it will leave people with somthing to think about, if they're of that nature.

The pitch is my biggest problem, I think Abe.  It's something that I'm definitely not good at.  It's funny in a way, because back when I started this project, I read up on screenwriting all that I could, and one subject was always the logline and synopsis.  The writers said that if you can't come up with a solid synopsis of what your story is about, you don't know your story very well.  This definitely isn't the case here.  I could literally talk with someone for 6-8 hours about my story, the characters, their backstory, their likes and dislikes, how they are in "real" life, away from a party vacation, the ins and outs and intricasies of every singel facet of this thing.  But when it comes to summing it all up in a few lines, I'm like a baby without a bottle...clueless.

I think a big part of the problem is that this really doesn't play out like any other horror/slasher flicks that I know of, and a big part of it is the reveal and shock at what happens with who we think are our protaganists, when they turn into our antagonists.

I need all the help I can get with this, and any ideas are very welcome.

Thanks so much Abe!

Hey MBC, thanks again for keeping this going and giving your 4 cents worth.  Scottsdale, huh?  I'm down in Chandler...must be nice (LOL!).

Hey, I've said a number of times before (in this thread, the regular "horror" thread, and in PM's to various reviewers) the "reveal" of Xavier is simply an after the facts kind of deal. As I said to Abe, consider it like a bonus song (or even a hidden song) on a CD.  It's not the story here, and whether or not people like it, don't give a shit about it, hate it, whatever, it shouldn't come so heavily into play.

Here's a crazy analogy for you...and everyone else.  If you were around in the 80's and were into "rock" or "heavy metal" music, you most likely loved Van Halen.  I know I sure did!  One thing really pissed me off about their albums though.  They were only 30-35 minutes long, for the most part.  If they had included another 2 or 3 songs, whether they were "up to snuff" or not, wouldn't have mattered.  For true fans, they would have  inhanced the experience, and I highly doubt that anyone would hold it against the boys for including songs that were either "fillers" or just downright crappy songs.  Kind of like my bonus song analogy to Abe.

So I really think that you've got to take it for what it is, and not try to read any more into what's been given...don't try to change the story and it's integrity.  I'm not saying in any way that it couldn't or wouldn't work, or even that it may come across as stronger to many readers, but the bottom line is that the entire reason for the late reveal of X is to bring up questions, thoughts, and discussion.

As for any literary pros who would read this?  If they got to the end and liked what they read up to there, I can't imagine why they'd shitcan it based on a late reveal and IMO, great opening to the sequel.

And as to Danny and Carlie being "credible" killers?  I don't want them to be.  I want them to come from left field as the killers.  That's alot of the whole plot that these 2 nice people end up whacking everyone. It's not a follow the dots cookie cutter formula, and it's very purposely done the way it is.  I don't know about you, but I'm so damn tired with all the same old same old in terms of horror movie plotlines and stories.  I wanted to deviate as far as I could away from them and introduce something that was pretty much the opposite of what we get over and over again.

What is a "credible killer"?  Is it someone or something that we know is evil right off the bat?  Is it a cloaked or masked person that kills without expression?  Is it a creature that strikes fear into the hearts of men?  Yeah, it can be...and it usually is.  These killers, however, don't even need to sneak up on you, cause they don't come off as being a problem in any way.  They're the worst, and scariest kind of "bad guy", cause you never in your wildest dreams, think they're what they prove to be, and tehy could be your best friend, or that "speical someone" you meet in a bar.

Think of just about any slasher horror movie in which the killer isn't revealed until the end.  When you think back about them, do they come off as probable killers?  Compitent killers?  Is there really even any chance that they could pull off the kills they did?  Usually not.  That's why they're cloaked, or concealed until the end, because in reality, they couldn't be the killer...they couldn't pull off the kills they made.  A great example that comes to mind is the original "Urban Legend" (which I think was actually a pretty good flick, until you thought about it).  I mean, c'mon, you think Rebecca Gayheart at 120 pounds or whatever could have accomplished any of her kills, or that she in any way seemed like she would be a killer? NO WAY!

I don't want to seem like an A-Hole here, but I just think that you're trying to read too much into this and you're missing what this is all about, which is a fun (in a horrific way), wild, and tense ride, filled with alot of interesting and downright brutal and shocking kills.

Again, I love your Purgatory idea, and I will implement it in a cool way.

Sorry if I seem upset or harsh, cause I appreciate your and everyone elses comments so much.

Hey "A-Hole" DS (kidding!)

I think for the most part I was just thinking deeper into the story...and trying to help with ideas.  What you choose to do is exactly that..."Your Choice"...after all you are the writer and I can't even pretend to know how to write a screenplay. (I'm here to learn)  

The type of stories I write and the writing I have done is at the opposite end of the spectrum from this but I do like a good horror flick from time to time as my boyfriend is a complete "freak" when it comes to horrow movies! lol

What I do have is a pretty analytical mind and I do like to figure things out...but as I have mentioned a few other times - I like this screenplay and the story line...and I also feel that it could be better than it is...therefore the extra "helping" if you will, to some ideas. *wink*

In a way maybe I was playing a little Devil's advocate and I think Abe had some good thoughts and suggestions so I just added my 4 cents of fuel on the fire

It will be interesting to see what you come up with on Purgatory...I tried to ski there a few years ago but there was about 2 inches of snow so we went over to Wolfcreek! lol

I don't think you're harsh or upset...you just know what you have in your head and I think people have to give you credit for sticking your neck out and believing in what you wrote....Fade to White is your baby!

Chandler huh? Scottsdale has more trees and silicone, but that's about it!
Thanks for the response to my post!

~m~

Jeff, since nobody else if offering any loglines, I'll throw out a few:

1)  A deathly chill runs through a ski community, as a seamless killer slaughters vacationers.

2)  Snow falls and blood flows, when a serial killer descends upon a Colorado ski town.

3)  Vacationers at a ski resort fall under the spell of good friends, white slopes and unspeakable slaughter.

4)  A young, married couple see their vacation go to bloody hell, as a killer roams a ski resort.

5) The body count rises as a killer targets vacationers during a Colorado snowfall.

6) Skiers have their winter party snuffed by a drifting killer.

7)   A young, married couple find themselves in a bloody game of life and death, as vacationers are slaughtered at a ski resort.

   While on a Colorado ski trip, a married couple become entangled in a murderer's killing spree.

9)   A married couple's winter vacation turns bloody, as skiers are butchered by a mysterious killer.

OK, maybe something here will work for you, Jeff.  Maybe a mix and match.  Or maybe these entries will spark other ideas.

Geez Abe...

I like all of those!  

Thanks Abe, like Pia said, I like all of these as well, in some ways.  They're definitely better than my original logline.  Most of these kind of make the story out to sound rather generic, which is a concern for me (and I think you were the one who originally said something to that effect, in how would I make this out to be unique and not fall into the garden variety of slasher flicks, which it really isn't, IMO, at least).

I think I want to include something that MBC came up with, which was something to the point of "the blood that's spilled will never fade to white'.

I'll think these over and see what I can come up with.

As always, your input is much appreicated, bud!  Thanks again.

Number 6 is my favorite, if that helps.

Quoted from Dreamscale Most of these kind of make the story out to sound rather generic, which is a concern for me (and I think you were the one who originally said something to that effect, in how would I make this out to be unique and not fall into the garden variety of slasher flicks, which it really isn't, IMO, at least).

You said recently, "I really want this script and concept to be taken for what it is, and that's an exercise in killing."
The problem is that too many lesser horror writers sing the same anthem.

So, Jeff, In your opinion, what lifts your script above Gardena Variety?  Sum up the story using character, central action and a goal in a few sentences.  Give us something that crystallizes this story's Uniqueness.
Your script, your call...

If we didn't have to deal with conceals, the logline could read "A married couple jet to Colorado for a little romance, a little skiing and a lot of murder."

Quoted from Dreamscale I think I want to include something that MBC came up with, which was something to the point of "the blood that's spilled will never fade to white'.

That's fine.  What MBC gave you is a tagline.  Not to be confused with a logline.
A tagline is a marketing tool, catchy verbage to slap onto your poster. It might tell the genre and/or tone.  And it's a Hook.  A good tagline can outlive the film.
Here are some popular taglines.  See if you can guess the film.

"What the devil hath joined together, let no man cut asunder."
"Be afraid. Be very afraid."  
"A Lot Can Happen In The Middle Of Nowhere."
"Get ready for rush hour."      
"When there's no room left in Hell, the dead shall walk the earth."
"They're herrrre..."
"They're young...they're in love...and they kill people."
"The Night HE Came Home."  
"Same Make. Same Model. New Mission."  
"You don't make up for your sins in church. You do it on the streets..."  
"I see Dead People."
"To enter the mind of a killer, she must challenge the mind of a madman."  
"In space, no one can hear you scream."
"He's having the worst day of his life...over, and over..."  
"There's something about your first piece."  

A Logline is preferably one (albeit long) sentence that sums up the story.  It should include your central character(s), the action and a goal. If you can, work in the hero's flaw and his nemesis.

Of course, you withhold key elements since you are trying to pique curiosity.

One of my favorite loglines goes to one of my favorite movies, Jason and the Argonauts.
"A Greek hero sails to the ends of the earth in a perilous quest for the Golden Fleece."

Here is a Rocky logline -  I've seen two versions, with the longer in parenthesis.
"A boxer who's afraid he's a loser is offered a chance by the world champion to fight for the heavyweight championship (but must learn to believe in himself with the help of his lover before he can step into the ring)."

Avoid this :   "Jaws meets Die Hard."   Or, for the movie Swimfan:  "Fatal Attraction on a high school campus."

These are not loglines, but some writers use such analogies and such in pitch sessions.

Hey Abe, sorry for not jumping on this earlier.  For some reason, it's hit or miss when I get an E-mail telling me there is a new post on a thread I've labled as "Notify me of new replies".

Yeah, I've definitely said that I want this to be taken for what it is, and nothing more.  But what I mean by that is that I don't want to alter the story to make it more than it is.  It is a study or exercise in killing at it's heart, but there's also alot more to it, and it's presented in a way that I find to be refreshing, unique, and "different".

These aspects, along with likeable, real characters, realistic dialogue and character actions, and unique, brutal kills, are what separate my script from garden variety drek, IMO.  I also feel that "mystery" of the story and off kilter structure and pacing, make it "work".  I doubt that many will be able to predict where it goes, who's killing, and why.

I don't know how to write this into a 1 or 2 sentence synopsis.  It is very difficult for me.

As for the tagline and logline, same goes.  I have great difficulty with this part of the game.  I need all the help I can get, because I realize these are very important aspects and realy the first thing that anyone sees.

As for your taglines, I definitely know most of them.

1)  Don't know it, but I have heard the passage before. I think it's something quite old.

2)  Is it The Fly?  Funny, cause I actually use that phrase quite often in casual conversation.

3)  Fargo

4)  Speed

5)  Dawn of the Dead (original version)

6)  Poltergeist

7)  Not sure...Bonie & Clyde?  Natural Born Killers?

  Halloween (original version)

9)  Not sure...T 2?

10)  Not sure...is it an old Scorcese flick?

11)  Sixth Sense

12)  Silence of the Lambs

13)  Alien

14)  Groundhog Day?

15)  Not sure...is it American Pie?

I have a feeling that most taglines are developed by a marketing department, after the movie is put togther.  Some work great, others are so weak.

Any more ideas are very welcome and appreciated Abe.  Thanks again!

Let me know if you have something left unsaid, D.S., and I will open it back up for your "last word" -- bert