Dreamscale...rather than go on and on about the endless "chatter"...seems like our "chatter" has gone on and on...  I think Chris has done a great job of offering you some things to think about and consider changing as have a few others.   It would be so easy to rework your front end that really is a bit long, take out just some of the "sugar dripping sweetness" of Danny and Carlie and as Chris suggested, maybe include a few places where he isn't all "honey, Hun Bun, Danny overboard."  

I liked the Jill and Bobbie portion because I believe it brought in an element of hope for what was going on in the house....of course at first you don't get that but when things begin to happen you almost hold your breath a little when Jill says she's going to stop by.  I think maybe if Jill had a cell phone in her hand and was trying to call the police because she heard something coming from the wood shed...only problem she dials and the dogs take off...she slips in the snow, hitting her head and you see the cell phone lit in blue, snow flakes falling on it and you hear the police dispatcher say hello...hello...only Jill can't answer back.  

I too thought the Carlie up the stairway and Danny coming back from the shed was very cool...in my mind I could picture them both taking those steps at the same time.  A brilliant move in my book and a tension builder....at this point we still don't know if Carlie is in on this or not but we're sure to find out.

Megan's pre-death in the closet was really intense and there was that overshadowing seduction element.  This visual was outstanding especially when we see "Durango, Heaven on earth" go red...what an obvious opposite statement to the scene!

I too wanted Marty and Jannelle to make it...but as the movie continued I could see why they couldn't.  I think you visuals and set ups are really good.

With regard to the drinking...I have a bunch of friends that behave like that!   I have also personally taken part in my share of "Pub Crawls" while up skiing.  The fact that the situation changes is sure to sober someone up pretty fast...the human body responds differently when the adrenaline starts pumping...the jolt is equal to at least a good hot strong cup of coffee...so I think it's okay.

One question I would pose about the ending credit pieces where more of the story is revealed/explained...what if the piece where Xavier kills Tobias as the payback for not following the rules when he kills the child - were to follow the opening scenes of the Tobias killings?  By moving this piece forward there would be quick resolution to the shock of the child being killed.  Danny and Carlie could still be there...but they are off screen so you wouldn't be giving anything away.  Xavier is talking to them about the money that will be ready when they have returned from their trip to help them get their business started. Xavier says his "godlike" remarks to add to the creepy setting...we still wouldn't know who to suspect but we would have some motive for the events and build up as we would be trying to figure out "WHO."  You could then add some remarks from a charater or two to move that along.  It would make better sense in my mind at least if the information was played out this way and it would help move the screenplay forward.

I like that you are trying to do some unique things. Not that many people went to see "Mama Mia"...but I did   They had some cute scenes that ran after the movie ended and it worked really well, but this was a feel good musical that left me feeling happy.  You'd just have to make sure people sat tight to get through the credit elements so they could get the missing pieces.

Hope some of this makes sense and is helpful...

MBCgirl

Abe!!!!

Thanks for joining in this!

Your post is extremely valuable as usual. You have such a way of analyzing stories.  

I'm glad more people are joining in this. I think this is a great thing. Hopefully the writers of scripts chosen for this will appreciate the input. The scripts discussed so far have been treated with honesty, I think. Sometimes very blunt honesty so I have to thank those who've offered their scripts up for discussion. It takes some balls indeed to subject one of your "babies" to this.

I think we've probably talked enough about dialogue/chatter. What do you guys want to discuss next? Personally I'd like to talk a little about how some suspense could be added to this script. I feel that right now, That's something sorely missing in this horror script.

Quoted from MBCgirl One question I would pose about the ending credit pieces where more of the story is revealed/explained...what if the piece where Xavier kills Tobias as the payback for not following the rules when he kills the child - were to follow the opening scenes of the Tobias killings?  By moving this piece forward there would be quick resolution to the shock of the child being killed.  Danny and Carlie could still be there...but they are off screen so you wouldn't be giving anything away.

Good thought, MBCGirl. But I don't think Jeff wants to give anything away.  He wants us to believe Tobias is alive and well and ready to strike again.  If we SEE X kill Tobias at the beginning, the serial killer angle kinda goes out the window.  We would then be looking at a conspiracy or what this story is really about (?) -- programmed killings.

Oh, hey, Pia.  Yes, I think this kind of round-table discussion is meaningful.  So I'll get back on topic:  Suspense.  

Jeff needs to take more advantage of little things to build suspense.  We don't follow any of the characters to the dark regions of the bar -- like the restroom.  

What about one of the guys hitting on a bar chick and then disappearing with her?  And he can't be reached on his cell phone??

What if the power goes out temporarily?  
What if one of the bar characters is a practical joker?  Pulls a scary prank on the ladies (yeah, this is cliched but it's better than nothing).

We a get a TV report of the brutal slaying of Patterson and his family. But it comes at the airport.  Either that scene or a follow-up could be shown at the bar.  
Maybe one person in the group responds to the newscast and gets creeped out.

Enroute to the Horny Toad, we absolutely need to see a scene of the White Jeep pulled to the side of the road.  This is where Danny inserts the explosive device (to be revealed later) in the wheel.  We will assume he's having car trouble.
When Danny and Carlie arrive at the HT, they create a back story about a  vehicle forcing them off the road.  They can bring a lot of suspense to the story.
I'm thinking of something like Aja's "Haute Tension." The victim's view is really the killer's view.
Once D and C arrive at the bar, the story has to focus on them.  Now Jeff can take the dialogue in a new direction without feeling forced.

And get these characters out of the bar.  Get them on the road and on their way.  It's easier to create suspense in the dark or the unfamiliar.

I think perhaps Jeff needs to add something else to this before the bar scene, and at that a probably much shorter bar scene. Something that does a better job of setting up the story and adding some suspense. I know it sounds strange when this script is already 20-30 pages too long. But while this is a 123 page script it is nowhere near a 2 hour movie, this film would still clock in at the 80-90 minute mark. I think it is quite a fat script and once he has cut out some of the fat and reduced the bar scene there could still be 10-15 pages easily for something else. What do I mean by fat?

The dogs are running around everywhere in the snow covered  
yard now...their leashes trailing behind them.

OR

The dogs run in circles, leashes trail behind them in the snow.

There are loads of examples where Jeff writes more than it needs and while these will add plenty of pages to the script they don't add a second of time to the movie. Hence why I think this script is nowhere near as long as it first appears.

So I was thinking of what is the one thing we have here that could be a great setting for suspense, drama and some great character development and yet is something that doesn't get a look in until a single small scene at the end? The answer is ski-ing!  Could it not be possible for Danny and Carlie to first meet these guys on the slopes? Maybe they tag along with the group, maybe some dangerous run, out of bounds or something. One of the girls gets lost and they all split up looking for her. She has had an accident, maybe broken an ankle or something. Danny finds her first, a strange scene, something not quite right and for a minute we are wondering what he might do. But then someone else finds them first. We for the first time are worried about who Danny might be. But then they all head to the bar and when in the bar we see the news report from the first killing and our attention is drawn away from Danny as we expect to see the "real" killer on the scene.

What if on the way back to the house they are tailgated for a few minutes by a strange SUV that eventually gets passed them, it could turn out to be Jill coming back with the beers for Johnny, but at first it sets up a little bit of suspense.

When the killer is finally unmasked or revealed it should never be a total surprise, you should always get that "Ooh, I knew it would be him" even though you never expected it to be him. You had been given enough clues that you kick yourself for not realizing. When it just comes out of nowhere it never feels right. It is quite a knack to get as it would be too easy to be too obvious.

There are lots of things that can happen here that will add the suspense we need at the start, as has already been pointed out enough the bar scene alone just does not do it and that is where Jeff needs to concentrate. I have finished the script now and it gets much better in the second half, really sold effort. But you can make room for more drama in the first half if he gets rid of some redundant scenes (even the whole plane section) and cut the fat.

P.S. Now that I have finished it I can say that you really need to tone down Danny and Carlie at the beginning, I thought there might have been a good reason for it but no. We shouldn't dislike these people at first, maybe distrust them a little but not dislike and honestly the way they were acting and speaking to each other I couldn't stand them!

Suspense - I think the biggest part of this is we really need to feel that Danny and Carlie are going to be the victims.  DS has acknoeldged taht s what he was trying to do, and that he needs to tone Danny and Carlie down a tad.  I think that's a real esay fix.  I've said vefore, i really like the scene in the airport parking lot where she's catching snowflakes.  You should try to do that scene with as little dialogue as possible and I think it would be great.  Show us they're a great couple instead of having them tell us.

I would still have a few scenes that hint at Danny and Carlie.  I would have the scene with Blacbourn giving them the explosives that now is in the credits right in the story.  Just have him cahse them down the ramp. "You forgot something".  

Also, the shopping scene.  At this point Danny's interaction with the girl in the shop come of as awkward.  Make it a little more creepy.  
And maybe you can have him something at the store that he later kills someone with.

At the bar, I like the way you throw suspicion on Jake with the bouncer story.  I think that's something you need to expand on.  Throw more suspicion on Jake, so that when Danny and carlie get in the car with them we're screaming at the screen, "WHat are you idiots?"  

One way to do that is bring back drunk guy.  He sort of disappears once the band goes on break and we never hear from him again.  What if, while we're hearing the story about Jake beating the bouncer with a pipe, drunk guy starts dancing with the girls.  A little obnoxious, nothing they can't laugh off.  When they go to sit down, he tries to get Lisa to stay.  She pulls her arm away and goes and sits down.    When they're all back at the table together, Drunk Guy approaches Lisa again.  This time Jake is there gets pissed.  Breaks a beer bottle on the table an threatens to remove his heart with the jagged end.  And Danny breaks it up.

Then when you get them back to the house, could there be two wood shed scenes?  One That's kind of the same as the one in there now, but no one gets killed.  WE're waiting for jake to kill Danny, we're waiting, and it doesn't happen but we're still on edge.  

Once the killing gets started, it moves pretty well.  Maybe Janey should be able to hold out a longer.  Get her a little closer to getting away.  

Also, I am a bit confused about their whole motivation.  They do seem to just right in, even though this is supposed to be thier first murders.  (WHich also caused some dialogue problems for me during the killings when Danny says he's never killed anyone with a gun before.)  We know they're getting money from Xavier, but it certainly feels like a thrill kill.  OR maybe it's a combination of both?  It just seems a bit up int he air to me.

I've just finished this script so I can jump back in.

I see most people have been talking about the dialogue and time it takes to get to what the movie is about.

I still say the dialogue is good, but it just goes on too long. Pretty much what everyone else has been saying. Like I said on the script thread, I think he could have one of them killed in the bar. In the toilets, something like that? Then you've got that Danny is the bad one, you could then have a further reveal that Carlie's in on it. Just think if that happened halfway through the bar scene, the suspence would be there for the rest.

I wasn't bored by any part of the script, which is pretty good for how long it is. I just think he needs to sort out the structure and get the script more in line with the genre he was going for.

I've been busy lately, so sorry for not keeping up with this.

I have to say though that I hope Dreamscale appreciate all these amazing suggestions and discussions about this script. In my opinion this is invaluable stuff. Especially since it is for free'

GM,
I think you have provided some really fantastic suggestions. I totally agree and think it would work great.

I want to thank all of you for participating. Like I said, this is all fantastic feedback.
This is what this site is all about.

Great stuff. Love ya all!  

I totally appreciate it!

Oops, I broke my silence.  Sorry, back to being mute...

Quoted from Dreamscale I totally appreciate it! Oops, I broke my silence.  Sorry, back to being mute...

Still 2 days before you can respond...but in the meantime, Pia, 40 lashings!!!!

Hey there's some fantastic stuff in this thread.  I've been off (first and still) sick.  Then my laptop got sick. Now I might have to reinstall windows.  But enough of that.


I really agree with ste

Quoted from ste I think he could have one of them killed in the bar. In the toilets, something like that? Then you've got that Danny is the bad one, you could then have a further reveal that Carlie's in on it. Just think if that happened halfway through the bar scene, the suspence would be there for the rest.

the suspense is  needed.

And I also liked the suggestion that Danny and Carlie are asked to kill Tobias.  I don't know who made that one but it was an interesting one.

And so many other suggestions. This thread is gonna drive Jeff crazy.

Now back to my woes and miseries.

Michael  

Jeff said he likes the movie Hostel, so did anybody suspect he was creating a similar scenario?  Such as fun-loving, 20-something skiers luring an innocent couple back to a mountain hideaway.  For an evening of cards and torture.
And where Tobias might lie in wait?

I'm still a believer that Carlie should be pregnant -- even if it's only fake, ala Angelina Jolie in Taking Lives.
You can't get much more vulnerable than a woman with child.  We could foresee crazy Tobias stalking poor, pregnant Carlie in an isolated mountain home.  I think that should be the vision Jeff pushes on us.

Heck, if Tobias kills a child on page 4, use it as a prelude to what we anticipate coming on page 94.

Poor Pia...40 lashings...no way! lol  

Settle down there Michael! =))))

Quoted from MBCgirl Poor Pia...40 lashings...no way! lol   Settle down there Michael! =))))

But Pia is giving the lashings.  She takes care of my light work.

I shall never settle down!  I strive to be the Hunter S. Thompson* of screenwriters!


*Beware the bats.

Well if Pia is giving the lashings then we're all good! lol  She does keep it moving along.

If you won't settle down...then I'm going to be "ducking"  *Beware the Bats! =))))

~m~

I give as easily as I take. I enjoy both... prefer to be on the receiving end tho, but...  

I'll get back tomorrow about the ending of this script. Been a tad busy the last few days...