Quoted from oJOHNNYoNUTSo Margarine, being just one molecule away from plastic, has many common uses. Most known for "spreading on bread", this wonder of science and deliciousness has one use that most food-lovers don't know about -- the screenplay. Yes the screenplay, but who would've thought to actually use it for writing? In the small town of Tinderton, one rebel screenwriter has come forward with a new way of writing, and is now on Hollywood's radar. His name is Tootsie McBooty. We sat down with Mr. McBooty to get a glimpse of just how margarine not only breaks the boundaries of a script, but what the mind of a genius looks like. It was shocking... "I just spread all over," chuckles Tootsie. "Not only my scripts, my entire body. Fellow writers say I'm on a slippery slope, but it's a helluva lot better than butter."

HILARIOUS!!!  YES!!!  

Those rules are comforting. They seem to help people sleep at night. Make them feel that all would be well, if only the people that make movies would listen to them.

Meanwhile, somewhere else, writers are selling scripts.

Coupla things...

Stephen King once said: 'It is the story...not he who tells it'.

The other is a query that has always intrigued me when writing:

You know how you intro or name a character in your script, right? Or read the name of one in any script I guess.

Well, how then does your regular audience watching the movie of the script know the person's name if it isn't said straight up? Do they find out before they see the movie when they get info about the film? You guys understand what I'm getting at?

Always intrigues me for some reason, lol.

Quoted from stevie Stephen King once said: 'It is the story...not he who tells it'.

Stephen King was wrong. There are only so many types of story. It's like when comedians tell jokes. One guy tells a joke and nobody laughs... next comedian tells the same joke, everybody laughs.

It's the way I tell 'em... as Frank Carson used to say... and he was right. It was the way he told them.

It isn't the story, it's the person telling the story. The voice that comes through. Certain people have a natural writer's voice... most do not.

Quoted from stevie You know how you intro or name a character in your script, right? Or read the name of one in any script I guess. Well, how then does your regular audience watching the movie of the script know the person's name if it isn't said straight up? Do they find out before they see the movie when they get info about the film? You guys understand what I'm getting at?

Usually the name is brought up during dialogue somewhere later down the line. Or it could be in the promo's if not...

There will always be those writers that spend all their time looking up. It won't be until you see yourself as equal or better than all of those you idolise that you could ever be elite. It takes knowing what you can do and above all, believing in yourself.

Writing a screenplay should be as easy for a writer as building the framework of a house is for a brick layer. Shouldn't it?

Slugs... action... dialogue...

The rest comes down to natural ability... your voice. Not everyone is going to like what you do and there will always be haters... particularly amongst fellow writers, even the ones that smile to your face. It's like these game shows where everyone pretends to help each other, but the aim of the game calls for just one winner. They help each other for selfish reasons. It isn't honest. They have to be nice to each other to stop the others voting them out. A lot of things come into play, from level of attractiveness to simply who the best bullshitter is. The person that pretends to care the most is usually a good choice for biggest bullshitter, IMO. Anyway, I digress.

Writing a script is actually quite easy. The rest comes down to your story-telling ability and talent. Not looking up at half the idiots that are getting paid right now and sucking dick.

Quoted Text It's like when comedians tell jokes. One guy tells a joke and nobody laughs... next comedian tells the same joke, everybody laughs.

Now this is actually a well made point.

Then unfortunately...

Quoted Text It won't be until you see yourself as equal or better than all of those you idolise that you could ever be elite... looking up at half the idiots that are getting paid right now and sucking dick.

Just to clear things up, though I'm sure it won't, this is certainly not about idolizing anyone. My first year of writing was spent mostly at this website, and the scripts I read were amateur. And I read a lot, gave tons of notes.

Then I ended up on the Scriptshadow email list, back when he was sending out scripts. These scripts were usually of projects that were in some stage of production, so the film had not been released. Seldom had I heard of the writer, but that didn't mean much because my knowledge of that kind of thing was limited.

What DID matter was that I started reading the scripts...and what a difference! After reading all those amateur scripts for a year, where even the good ones proved to be a chore to get through...having to suffer through writers like myself or Dustin...all of a sudden I was reading scripts that you could finish in an hour.

It's not about idolizing. It's about appreciating and learning.

Do you suppose a fiction writer stops reading other work once he understands grammar, thinking he has nothing else to learn and only has to tell his stories?

Do you suppose that once Jimmy Page learned how to play the guitar he stopped listening to other bands?

One more example, and then time for coffee. Lately I've been reading a lot of short story collections. My purpose is actually to hopefully improve my ability to create characters and character voices, so I mostly read stories that were written in first person.

While doing this with a collection written by a single author, I discovered something: those writers are very experimental. They play around with a variety of styles and techniques. It's not at all the case that the writer employs one "voice" and uses it for all his or her stories.

Only in the amateur screenwriting world is there this notion that you learn the basic rules...and then that's it, all that's left to do is keep telling your stories until someone buys one.

I've read a lot of interviews with established screenwriters, and usually they mention other screenwriters who they read. When you find yourself doing the opposite of what successful people in your field do, it's time to take stock and reevaluate.

Quoted from KevinLenihan What DID matter was that I started reading the scripts...

I usually avoid these sorts of debates -- as I have mostly avoided this one -- please note my double dash -- but I did want to say something to those who think there is no value in reading scripts by the pros, or the recently-sold up-and-comers.

Like Kevin, I have to say, if you have never tried it, you are so wrong.  And the shame is you stick so firmly to your guns without even knowing how wrong you are.

I have taken a little something away from every pro script I have read.  Not to steal, or to mimic, just knowledge of what's out there.

Like an architect looking at a building and realizing, "Oh, you can also do columns that way.  Interesting."

Or a golfer driving an extra 20 yards when somebody shows him how to twist his wrist just so.

Just techniques that broaden your understanding of what is possible.

I am happy to point doubters to a short list of scripts that might change their mind.  Or they might not.  Just felt compelled to comment this morning.

As a huge S. King fan, all I'm going to say is that he reads about 83 novels every year.

That's all. Carry on.  

I have looked at them and I don't see any difference with a good amateur script. Pro scripts are made into films and I watch plenty of those and plenty of them are not worth watching... and that is down to poor dialogue and poor story structure. It starts with a shitty script written by a so-called professional. Escape Plan is a case in point. Written by somebody that was paid... when they should have been shot. Actually I just googled and it was written by TWO professional writers. It took two pro's to make such a shitty story that no amateur would ever be able to post without being vilified.

It's that shite in the eye thing I mentioned earlier... the very fact that a person has been paid to write a script instantly fuzzes over the story and writing inadequacies. Indeed, those inadequacies are oft applauded as just a pro being allowed to break rules. An amateur does it and it's because they don't know what they're doing. The only difference between us... is that I wipe the shite from my eyes.

I'd also rather not have knowledge of what's out there. I honestly don't care what anyone else is doing... all that matters is what I am doing.

I've also had plenty of praise for my work from professionals in the business. Enough for me to know that I'm doing things the way I should be. Considering I started around 20 months ago, I'm doing quite well.

Quoted from DustinBowcot Stephen King was wrong.

No, he wasn't. Stephen King is saying that he wants his readers to be immersed in the story, not Stephen King.

This debate, like anything that is debatable, are two people on opposite ends of an issue or in this case an opinion that has no right or wrong answer... yet they share very little middle ground.

I dont believe there is anything wrong with referencing pro scripts once in a while or not doing it at all.

I've read several of Dustin's works... it certainly doesnt seem to have hurt him.

If Dustin doesn't need to read pro scripts to help with the development of his writing than more power to him. Personally, I need all the help I can get. I read pro scripts for two reasons 1) for pacing of the script & 2) how the dialogue and action lines feed off one another. Top many times I've read work from an amateur and find that scenes run a little too long or that the dialogue comes off a bit flat from the action lines. I'm currently writing a thriller feature and I've been struggling with trying to incorporate scares and intense scenes into the script. I know what i want to do and say but for some reason it doesn't come out the way I want it to. I tend to look for pro scripts to see how they would handle the scenes. I do not steal their idea nor do I copy how they word it but it gives me better ways on how to tackle the situation than maybe an amateur script would.

-Dirk

Quoted from bert I usually avoid these sorts of debates -- as I have mostly avoided this one -- please note my double dash --

Too many double dashes, Bert. I don't think I can find the patience to read through the remainder of your post.

Anyway, on the Stephen King thing. Wasn't he, and maybe Pia can confirm this since its been a long time since I read it, who said in On Writing that you should read both the good and the bad? So shouldn't this apply to Pro scripts and amateur scripts?

Just a thought.

-J.S.

Quoted from J.S. ... you should read both the good and the bad? So shouldn't this apply to Pro scripts and amateur scripts?

That would necessitate amateur scripts being bad and pro scripts good... which certainly isn't the case. Plenty of shitty scripts out there where writers have been paid... and plenty of great scripts out there where the writer hasn't.

You guys feel the need to read pro scripts for ideas... I'm cool with figuring out my own ways of doing things. Slug, action, dialogue.... there's only so much one can do with that. The rest comes down to voice and being able to tell a coherent story... but I'm just repeating myself now.

I don't care what anyone else does to be honest... but I reject the claim that one has to read pro scripts if they want to be a pro screenplay writer.

Quoted from DustinBowcot That would necessitate amateur scripts being bad and pro scripts good... which certainly isn't the case.

No, it certainly isn't the case. So why do you believe it would necessitate that?