Quoted from Sandra Elstree. Is that what a good Christian does? Eggs on? And I'm serious and not joking now at all. I find it very beautiful actually. I think about lines that I can't repeat word for word, but like:I didn't come to bring peace to the world, but a sword...And I understand this, but not everyone does. Anyways, I enjoy you. You're cool. But you might not want to hear that from me.   Sandra

It was a bad choice of words, Sandra.  I encouraged" him to post this thread after he asked a question about God on my thread where I was trying to get SS'rs to match a small donation I made to Red Cross.  

And the scripture you're thinking of is Matthew 10:34-36. "Do not think that I came to bring peace on the earth; I did not come to bring peace, but a sword. For I came to set a man against his father, and a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law; and a man’s enemies will be the members of his household.  But that's okay.  Jesus is cut the grass and pull up the weeds when he returns. -->Revelation 1:7/ Rev. 19:20-21/ Matthew 13:24-30.  Of course some people might not wanna hear that.

Take care

Quoted from screenrider It was a bad choice of words, Sandra.  I encouraged" him to post this thread after he asked a question about God on my thread where I was trying to get SS'rs to match a small donation I made to Red Cross.   And the scripture you're thinking of is Matthew 10:34-36. "Do not think that I came to bring peace on the earth; I did not come to bring peace, but a sword. For I came to set a man against his father, and a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law; and a man’s enemies will be the members of his household.   But that's okay.  Jesus is gonna sort it all out when He returns. ---> Revelation 1:7, & 19:20-21 and Matthew 13:24-30.  Of course some people might not wanna hear that from me.

Screenrider, I understand this.

This very thing is written in the Thief Script by me, I apologize, in the characters of Gabriel and Jeana.

There were so many feelings and to try and process them in one go is a chore, but that's the game.

We're here. We're all here. And it's so very unreal and real at the same time.

When I listen to my friends here, sometimes I just really feel like I could explode in thankfulness.

I get this "thing". It's where you feel this kind of connection that even if it's deadpan sorrow, you feel like you can laugh.

That's the only way I can put it right now.

We knock up against one another, but it's really very very very special.

It's THE reason I love my husband the way I do. He's like the opposite ends of the world to me. We are so completely different and yet, we're so completely the same.

It doesn't make any sense at all.

When you go deeper into the rabbit hole, you learn it from experience.

But that experience is without logic.

Kinda cancels things ya know... and you're left at square one



Sandra

So let's leave it alone... 'cause we can't see eye to eye.

Their ain't no good guy... their ain't no bad guy

There's only you and me... and we just disagree

Ooo - ooo - ooohoo oh - oh - o-whoa

So let's... "LEAVE IT ALONE."

Ghostwriter

God is not the author of confusion, but of peace.   He's got it all under control.

Quoted from screenrider Fair enough.  I'll share my own personal experience.   For years I was a hardcore methamphetamine addict.  Crack, crime, decadence, you name it I was into it.   One night after being up for six days on meth, I encountered what I can only describe as demonic activity.   Something supernatural.  An evil spirit.   And it was in my apartment. Now any psychiatrist would tell you what I was experiencing was nothing more than meth-induced psychosis.  But it wasn't.  This thing physically wrote shit on my mirror.  It toyed with my mind for hours until I finally figured out what it was.  It was a demon.  Straight up.   Prior to that I had never even really thought about God, nor did I care.   But once you experience something like that, it's not hard to believe Jesus was telling the truth when he spoke about demons and angels, and heaven and hell...in the Bible.   I know for a fact, it's real. Very real. There is a fourth dimension. There is an afterlife.  And Jesus is Lord.  All things were made by Him, for Him and Through Him, and nothing exists without Him. Everyday I experience coincidences that are too much of a coincidence to be a coincidence.  I call them "God winks".  His hand of providence guiding me.  And that's my testimony.   Bottom line, I hope and pray you too will learn the truth, but without having to take a major ass-kicking like I had to.  Jesus says ask and it will be given; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened.  Matthew 7:7. ...find Christ

Interesting post. There a lot of holes in the story though.

It's far more logical and sensible to put down your experience to hallucinations (you admit to being up for 6 days on meths!).

Do you have video footage of the things being written on the mirror? Photographic evidence would be interesting, but it wouldn't preclude the notion that you had simply written on the mirror yourself in a physcotic episode.

It's also interesting that you assume that the demon is one from the Christian pantheon. Did it identify itself?

There are demons in almost all religions/mythologies, many lifted and plagiarised for the Bible or "created" as acts of ideological colonisation (eg using the Pagan God Pan as a now famous image of the Devil to try and forcibly convert the naturally Pagan people of the British Isles.

A process that extends as far as Christmas (which is merely Saturnalia). Early Christians did not celebrate people's Birth "as it was considered a Pagan tradition".

Quote the World Book Encyclopedia.

The world always goes full circle and religion is no exception. Christmas is a Pagan tradition, it goes against early Christian teachings, and was not celebrated for hundreds of years after Christ's death, yet now people have campaigns to "keep Christ in Christmas" and these kinds of things. Very ironic.

We fight the same wars over and over again, never moving on and never taking the time to simply objectvely evaluate the truth.

If one has recourse to history, they can simply start filling in the pieces and seeing where all the little myths develop.

For instance Baal and Yahweh (The Judeo-Christian God). Both these were Gods originally and the two Priesthoods (as Priesthoods tend to do) became extremely competitive. In the end the Yahwens won out and the victors as always get to write the history books. Baal becomes castigated and demonised and now is seen as one of Solomon's demons, whereas he was considered the very Lord of Heaven by his original worshippers.

Whoever wins the fight gets to impose their Gods. It's as simple as that.

There is a modern day mythology developing all around us and it's interesting to watch it develop as it grows like Religions do over time: The UFO mythology. The Roswell incident in particular. A craft of some kind crashes. Over time vague reports circulate that an Alien was invloved. UFO researchers in the past concluded that the official version of events was the corrct one,  yet over the years a very impressive story has developed round the incident.

The aliens have been given a race (the Greys), even individual names (Google it), a sex (androgynous) plus a whole back story about how they need our genetic samples to pro-create. These things are now recounted across numerous books and websites released every year and it has been codified and made believable.

For people like me who are interested in Religion on a more academic level, this mythology is interesting to watch build up. It has all the fundamentals there to develop and become a very powerful belief system.

You get to see first hand how systems of belief can be built up over time, by adding to the story.

What think is hilarious is the talk of Biblical reality, and it appears that my post providing proof that a piece of the Bible is actually true has been completely overlooked. I love the topic of the dinosaurs, etc., because it really sets the Bible thumpers against the world, and yet, when the thumpers start making stuff up, it only shows their ignorance of their own material. I direct you to Genesis 1:1-2: "In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth. Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters."

This reads like a seamless narrative, but if you happen to have the New International Version, research is about as hard as glancing at the footnotes where you find the word "was" that falls between earth and formless could possibly be the word "became." The story behind the writing of Genesis is that God gave this information to Moses who passed it onto the children of Israel. God doesn't bandy words, but says what he means. It is man that tries to figure him out. So if we re-read verse 2, we get:

"Now the earth became formless and empty..."

This creates what amounts to an unanswered gap between the creation of the world and the creation of everything that we know. A popular scientific explanation of the extinction of the dinosaurs is an asteroid collision which created worldwide chaos including darkness as indicated in verse 2 and wiped out everything. If you re-read the creation account from the perspective of God putting it all back together, you get a different picture altogether.

One single word makes the difference between 6,000 years and a span of time the we can't fathom, but apparently included the dinosaurs and all kinds of things that don't exist anymore. But equally inexplicably, we have a bunch of stuff that wasn't around before and came out of pretty much no where.

There is a lot of ignorance in the world of believers just as there is ignorance in the world of the non-believers. Most of you know me as someone who comes across as fairly well-informed about the screenwriting craft, but I've been a Christian longer than I've been a screenwriter, and I've read a lot on that topic as well, and through everything I've read, I remain a believer.

I suppose you see what you want to see and ignore what you want to ignore. This is not uncommon in the Christian world either. It is a far better position to acknowledge that you could be wrong than to stick to your guns, though. A lot of people tend to have a life philosophy and in the case of Christians, there tends to be a particular verse they cling to. Here's mine:

"Prove all things; hold fast that which is good." 1 Thessalonians 5:21

It serves me well.

EDIT: Decadence is completely right about Christmas. Christmas was created by the Catholic church years ago as a response to the celebration of the winter solstice by the pagan sect. They wanted their people to be a part of Christianity, but let them have their comfort level of their winter party, so they turned it into a celebration of the birth of Christ. It is accepted by many religious authorities that Jesus was most likely born in August or September. What was celebrated by the early church was Jesus' resurrection, since that is the backbone of the Christian faith.

And yeah, he who wins the war writes history.

I gave up this discussion long time a go.

I'm still trying to figure out why Easter is on a different date each year.

Ok, so Jesus was crucified on a certain day in AD 33(or whatever calendar you want to use). So if it was ,say, Friday March 20, by whatever reckoning, then why isn't that a fixed date each year like Xmas? We all know that he wasn't born on December 25 by our calendar, yet we have this day fixed. Why not the same for Easter?

For the record, I went to a Catholic primary school till I was 14. we used to go to churhc each week but weren't full on worshippers. I started forming my own views round about then.
I believe in a force behind things. If its God, then thats cool. God is just a name for it. I believe there has to be some point behind the universe - it sems illogical that all it all just came into being.

Its a matter of belief I guess - if you wanna believe in an entity out there, no prob. If you don't, no prob. We ain't gonna find out till we cark it anyway. And no one has really come back to tell us the score, have they? Which proves or disproves nothing...

Enough dribble, i'm off to bed. I also believe climate change is now sort of similiar to a religious debate, but in a smaller way - you either believe it will happen or you're a sceptic. Personally, I'm the latter( I was a beliver but changed).

Have a good weekend all.

Jesus rose from the dead the Sunday after Passover, so the Easter celebration will always fall on the Sunday after Passover which is prescribed to begin at twilight on the 14th day of the first month of the Jewish calendar (Leviticus 23:5). Trouble is that the Jewish calendar is 12 months of 30 days with a thirteenth month added every seven years to balance it out. Their first month also fell during our springtime, so technically, Easter does fall at around the same day every year, but due to the translation from that calendar to ours, it moves around.

I had a pastor once that threw a royal fit when the calendar placed Easter on the Sunday before Passover. He let the congregation know on Easter that he wasn't celebrating until the following Sunday because it was placed on the wrong day. It really tossed a damper on that day at church, even though he was technically right.

Quoted from George Willson It appears that my post providing proof that a piece of the Bible is actually true has been completely overlooked.

It's funny how that happens...a typical strategy of the enemy.   And when I say enemy I mean the "system of the Antichrist".  

Here's the bottom line...God (Jesus) will bring every work into judgement, including every secret thing, whether good or evil. Ecclesiastes, 12:14.  

EDIT: Here's another bottom line... faith, hope, love. But the greatest of these is love. That is overall the most pertinent message of Jesus.

Don't be ridiculous, Mike.  Some of us are growing tired of this thread and aren't giving it priority anymore.

George posted an interesting argument.  Something significant happened and it's in the Old Testament.  My question is this:  when was the book of Joshua written?  Years later?  Decades later?  As Rick pointed out, earlier, stories build over time.  That fish that got away when I was ten is about 72 feet long now....

I'm not saying that this event happen.  I'm questioning the Biblical reporting of it.  The Aztecs gave a sacrifice to their gods.  Maybe the Aztec gods were responsible and not the Judeo-Christian God.  Maybe the Egyptian gods had something to do with it?

The New Testament wasn't written until decades after Jesus supposedly ascended to heaven.  Once these books were put together, they were translated and copied hundreds of times over and kept by the Catholic church for about 1000 years.  There's plenty of room, here, for misinterpretation and error.  And no one would ever know because the Bible wasn't made public until the Gutenberg Bible in the 15th century.

Did you ever play the game 'Telephone?'  It doesn't take much to screw up the message.

Both movies Psycho and Texas Chainsaw Massacre are based on the story of Ed Gein.  You'd never know that from watching the movies.  The reason for this is that the writers interpreted the stories differently.  The same can be said with the Bible; stories were changed during the rewrites and the story got bigger and bigger.  Things were added over time.  Veronica, who wiped Jesus' face while he carried the cross, is not listed in any of the Gospels.  Where did her story come from?

I mentioned, earlier, The Amityville Horror.  The cover of the book stated it was a true story.  And people believed it at first, until it was disproven.  People believed that The Blair Witch Project was real when it first came out.  Many still did even after the actors in it appeared on The Tonight Show.

While Amityville and Blair were quickly dismissed as fiction, a part of it was that we had the resources to do so.  Communication was at a call (if anything) during biblical times.  And the fear of being called a heretic (and killed) kept a lot of people quiet.


Phil

Quoted from dogglebe Don't be ridiculous, Mike.  Some of us are growing tired of this thread and aren't giving it priority anymore. Phil

Then why are you still posting messages, Phil.  Why does the Gospel of Jesus get you so wound up?  it's almost as if you're afraid.  You don't believe in God so why should you even care about this discussion?   I dunno.  But I do know this.  Hebrews 4:12 says "the word of God is alive and powerful. It is sharper than the sharpest two-edged sword, cutting between soul and spirit, between joint and marrow. It exposes our innermost thoughts and desires".

You can dispute the integrity of the Bible until you're blue in the face.  It' doesn't matter. The Word of God stands.   Jesus said it best in Matthew 5:18. "I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished".

If this Earth was one centimeter off it's gravitational axis we'd be sling-shotted into oblivion.  God holds the universe in place, so based on that knowledge I'm confident he had complete control of what was put into the Bible and what was left out.  I know that's a hard pill for you to swallow.  I'm really not trying to be argumentive with you, but nothing, and I mean nothing, will ever change my mind about this.

EDIT: And here's the scary part about this whole this thing.  Revelation 1:7.  Behold, he cometh with the clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they that pierced him; and all the tribes of the earth shall mourn over him.

I hate to say it but that's not gonna be a good day for a lot of people.

The LORD will go forth like a warrior, He will arouse His zeal like a man of war. He will utter a shout, yes, He will raise a war cry. He will prevail against His enemies. Isaiah 42:13.  Game over.

I said it wasn't priority; I didn't I was abandoning it.  And I'm not afraid of anything in the Bible.  I'm annoyed that you try to support the validity of the Bible with quotes from it.

Quoted from George Willson What think is hilarious is the talk of Biblical reality, and it appears that my post providing proof that a piece of the Bible is actually true has been completely overlooked.

Quoted from screenrider It's funny how that happens...a typical strategy of the enemy.   And when I say enemy I mean the "system of the Antichrist".

It's funny how you've ignored my argument, too, about the multiple translations and and rewrites of the Bible.  And the questions regarding who was responsible for that long day incident that George brought up.  I guess if the answer isn't in the Bible, it's not a worthwhile question.

Quoted from screenrider Here's the bottom line...God (Jesus) will bring every work into judgement, including every secret thing, whether good or evil. Ecclesiastes, 12:14.   EDIT: Here's another bottom line... faith, hope, love. But the greatest of these is love. That is overall the most pertinent message of Jesus.

Here's the bottom line--the real bottom line:  The Devil isn't responsible for the earthquake in Haiti (as you say).  God isn't responsible for the earthquake in Haiti (as that douchebag Robertson says).  It was tectonic plates shifting somewhere around or under Haiti.  Your drug problem wasn't the work of the Devil; you're recovery wasn't the work of God.  Both were your doing.


Phil

Quoted from dogglebe I said it wasn't priority; I didn't I was abandoning it.  And I'm not afraid of anything in the Bible.  I'm annoyed that you try to support the validity of the Bible with quotes from it.

All right, Phil. On the front of "proving" anything in the Bible, you are correct. It cannot be proven. There is nothing that I can bring to the table that would provide a sufficiently convincing argument as to the validity of the Bible. There is no story I could relate or any testimony I could give that would sway any skeptic. By the same measure, there is no argument that can conclusively show the opposite. There is nothing you can present to show that the Bible is not true, and I don't expect you to.

Quoted from dogglebe It's funny how you've ignored my argument, too, about the multiple translations and and rewrites of the Bible.  And the questions regarding who was responsible for that long day incident that George brought up.  I guess if the answer isn't in the Bible, it's not a worthwhile question.

Well, in all fairness, I hadn't looked at the site since you posted your argument, so a lack of presence can hardly be called ignoring it. For what it's worth, the Mormons use the same argument to present their version of the Bible as a whole. Again, I cannot give you any argument you would believe to reinforce the idea that the Bible's text somehow survived for centuries. For what it's worth, the story of the flood is not just in the Bible either. Greek mythology has one too. Who's to say, right?

Quoted from dogglebe Here's the bottom line--the real bottom line:  The Devil isn't responsible for the earthquake in Haiti (as you say).  God isn't responsible for the earthquake in Haiti (as that douchebag Robertson says).  It was tectonic plates shifting somewhere around or under Haiti.  Your drug problem wasn't the work of the Devil; you're recovery wasn't the work of God.  Both were your doing.

I wouldn't claim to know who or what is responsible for the earthquake. Obviously, the tectonic plates moved which created the shaker. Was there a higher power? How should I know? I'm not that cool.

So if that means that there are no arguments that could possibly prove or disprove the Bible's validity. All I have is faith. I have no proof. Nothing that would present a clear, convincing argument. So, my wise friend, since I still believe that it is true without anything concrete, what does that make me from a scientific perspective?

From a scientific perspective, it makes you blind.

Now, can we lock this thread?


Phil