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SimplyScripts Screenwriting Discussion Board    Discussion of...     General Chat  ›  The Oscars Moderators: bert
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Andrew
Posted: April 30th, 2021, 2:48pm Report to Moderator
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Kind of sums it up for me.


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Zack
Posted: April 30th, 2021, 2:49pm Report to Moderator
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I love this guy! He's awesome.  




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SteveClark
Posted: April 30th, 2021, 4:03pm Report to Moderator
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I remember when, not long ago, Oscars was an event. Something your marked on your calendar. Even before I had this crazy notion to be a screenwriter, I never missed the Oscars. If I was working, I rushed home. Iíd order a pizza.

For me, the tide turned when they stopped having hosts. Trying to cut back on time cause it ran too long. What??? Fuck, I wanted it to run long! I didnít want it to end.

Steve Martin. Billy Crystal. Johnny Carson. They were all regular hosts, and they were great. It was like a big roast. Hollywood laughing at the expense of Hollywood, and no one was left out.

Then the music started. The speeches got cut short. Warren Beatty fucked up the Best Picture. Then everyone got political, stood on their soap boxes for their particular causes. Yawn. Who cares anyway about all that shit?

Start by bringing back a tremendous host next year. Start there. And donít take everything so goddamn seriously.


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eldave1
Posted: April 30th, 2021, 5:51pm Report to Moderator
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I don't think the dude could have been more wrong.  

Interests change - Look, beauty pageants used to be all the rage not too long ago - now, no one gives a shit. We all got fatigued with it. MMA has replaced boxing. Old people watch awards shows - young people don't care - they have smartphones to tend to.

THis is just a dude pushing his own political agenda


My Scripts can all be seen here:

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AnthonyCawood
Posted: April 30th, 2021, 6:24pm Report to Moderator
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I've always been interested in the nominations and who won, never cared about the show itself, probably a timezone thing

Though TBF I don't watch the BAFTA's either.


Anthony Cawood - Award winning screenwriter
Available Short screenplays - http://www.anthonycawood.co.uk/short-scripts
Available Feature screenplays - http://www.anthonycawood.co.uk/feature-film-scripts/
Screenwriting articles - http://www.anthonycawood.co.uk/articles
IMDB Link - http://www.imdb.com/name/nm6495672/?ref_=fn_al_nm_1
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Grandma Bear
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The Oscars used to be big for me, but I'm also old enough to remember when going to the movies was sort of epic, even if in Sweden. The theaters were bigger and often grand. Then they became smaller in order to make it possible to show more films, which was good I guess too. Thinking back now, some of the screens in those multi-plexes were just a hair bigger than our TVs at home now. It seems to me the movies themselves were bigger too. They did carry you away for a couple of hours. Took you too magical places. Those films could only be made by big studios. Then the computers entered the picture and CGI made things cool, but cheap at the same time. Also, all of a sudden, anyone could buy a decent camera and do all their own editing and voila, produce/direct their own movie. At the same time, writers from all over the world were able to learn how to write screenplays and reach studios. Add streaming services like Netflix and Amazon and now there's a glut of good stuff to watch. There's so much content out there, it's impossible to keep up. Result? There are no real stars anymore. Actors can have the lead in a movie or series, but most people still won't recognize their name or face. Too much of a good thing? End result, no one cares about the Oscars. I don't know, but I suddenly have an urge to go see a movie in a theater. I wonder if there's something really epic playing. Probably not...


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AnthonyCawood
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Hope you find something good to see Pia!

Theatres still not open in the UK ;-(

Having to make do with my massive TV to watch Nomadland on


Anthony Cawood - Award winning screenwriter
Available Short screenplays - http://www.anthonycawood.co.uk/short-scripts
Available Feature screenplays - http://www.anthonycawood.co.uk/feature-film-scripts/
Screenwriting articles - http://www.anthonycawood.co.uk/articles
IMDB Link - http://www.imdb.com/name/nm6495672/?ref_=fn_al_nm_1
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LC
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Used to love the Oscars. Big event in our house with popcorn and betting.
Covid wrecked this last one.
It looked like it was held in a shopping food-court.

Anthony H. couldn't even be bothered stayng up and Zooming it in for his best actor gong, which was a definite anti-climax.

Our cinemas are open, but the offerings are a bit Blah.

P.S. Nice to see you Andrew.  


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Heretic
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Quoted from eldave1
I don't think the dude could have been more wrong.  

Interests change - Look, beauty pageants used to be all the rage not too long ago - now, no one gives a shit. We all got fatigued with it. MMA has replaced boxing. Old people watch awards shows - young people don't care - they have smartphones to tend to.

THis is just a dude pushing his own political agenda


Agree. This guy's been posted a few times here and every video is just another riff on the exact same complaint.

I never liked or watched the Oscars, though, so who knows. I'd definitely believe that they're getting worse. The movies sure are.


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Andrew
Posted: May 1st, 2021, 4:09pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from eldave1
I don't think the dude could have been more wrong.  

Interests change - Look, beauty pageants used to be all the rage not too long ago - now, no one gives a shit. We all got fatigued with it. MMA has replaced boxing. Old people watch awards shows - young people don't care - they have smartphones to tend to.

THis is just a dude pushing his own political agenda


The beauty of life in the differing perspectives, for sure.

From my end, I personally agree with his positions here, in that there is a clear political positioning from Hollywood output. And that output aligns perfectly with a postmodern worldview. It's up to each person to decide if they agree with that being good or not.

Surely there are elements we can all agree on (even when we don't agree with the conclusions the video chap reaches):

- The Oscars has become overtly political at a pace it's hard to believe. It was only the 2000s where Michael Moore was booed. It's moved away from a celebration of film to become yet another organ of the relentless politicisation of every facet of life. Film is supposed to unite. To breakdown barriers and to highlight our commonalities, not our differences which are being exaggerated and presented as chasms impossible to navigate. Surely we an agree the Oscars is not celebrating art > politics right now, or a celebration of what film for everyone. The art.

- We have a relentless focus on the identity of the filmmakers and actors.

This should be pretty easy to agree on. More political, more identity focused.

We can disagree on the merit of the above, but agreeing on those two points should be uncontroversial.

The Critical Drinker's summary is pretty much:

- Stop focusing on the superificial elements > the art
- Pampered, morally imperfect individuals forcing their political opinions on people is tiresome. Pretty sure most of us feel this way when it's relentlessly done in our personal space
- Film is escapism, and content needn't be relentlessly politcial in nature
- The entertainment has become secondary to the messaging

Personally agree with all of the above, and whilst I love a thoughtful, compelling and provocative political film as much as the next person, my biggest gripe with politically-focused output right now is that it's poorly made. It's not attempting to challenge; it's attempting to persuade (at best) or browbeat me into submission (at worst), often offering up opinion as fact.

Anyway, just thought I'd share the video because I love film, care about it, and want a relentless focus only on the art, rarther than sullying this unique medium by soaking it in the culture wars x


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Andrew
Posted: May 1st, 2021, 4:10pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from LC
Used to love the Oscars. Big event in our house with popcorn and betting.
Covid wrecked this last one.
It looked like it was held in a shopping food-court.

Anthony H. couldn't even be bothered stayng up and Zooming it in for his best actor gong, which was a definite anti-climax.

Our cinemas are open, but the offerings are a bit Blah.

P.S. Nice to see you Andrew.  



Likewise

I'll try and be more active again, and not just with political stuff!

Hope you're well


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eldave1
Posted: May 1st, 2021, 5:20pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from Andrew


The beauty of life in the differing perspectives, for sure.

From my end, I personally agree with his positions here, in that there is a clear political positioning from Hollywood output. And that output aligns perfectly with a postmodern worldview. It's up to each person to decide if they agree with that being good or not.

Surely there are elements we can all agree on (even when we don't agree with the conclusions the video chap reaches):

- The Oscars has become overtly political at a pace it's hard to believe. It was only the 2000s where Michael Moore was booed. It's moved away from a celebration of film to become yet another organ of the relentless politicisation of every facet of life. Film is supposed to unite. To breakdown barriers and to highlight our commonalities, not our differences which are being exaggerated and presented as chasms impossible to navigate. Surely we an agree the Oscars is not celebrating art > politics right now, or a celebration of what film for everyone. The art.

- We have a relentless focus on the identity of the filmmakers and actors.

This should be pretty easy to agree on. More political, more identity focused.

We can disagree on the merit of the above, but agreeing on those two points should be uncontroversial.

The Critical Drinker's summary is pretty much:

- Stop focusing on the superificial elements > the art
- Pampered, morally imperfect individuals forcing their political opinions on people is tiresome. Pretty sure most of us feel this way when it's relentlessly done in our personal space
- Film is escapism, and content needn't be relentlessly politcial in nature
- The entertainment has become secondary to the messaging

Personally agree with all of the above, and whilst I love a thoughtful, compelling and provocative political film as much as the next person, my biggest gripe with politically-focused output right now is that it's poorly made. It's not attempting to challenge; it's attempting to persuade (at best) or browbeat me into submission (at worst), often offering up opinion as fact.

Anyway, just thought I'd share the video because I love film, care about it, and want a relentless focus only on the art, rarther than sullying this unique medium by soaking it in the culture wars x


I think you are misunderstanding my point. For argument's sake (and only that), let's say the Oscars have become more political, left and identity-based.  That is one thing. It is quite another thing to then conclude that the existence of those conditions = ratings plumment. Classical case of confusing correlation with causation.

There are so many other variables that could contribute to decline.

- What I mentioned before about changes in demographics and viewership tastes.
- The Pandemic
- The lack of credible, popular hosts (note - viewership peaked in 2014 when Ellen was the host - And my candidate for the most likely
- The growing divide between what people watch and what is actually nominated. With Marvel, DC, Avengers, Star Wars, animation dominating the box-office - none of the movies that people cared enough to watch are ever nominated and ergo - people to care to watch a show about honoring the films and stars they didn't watch. There used to be some alignment between box office and nominations. Today that is non-existent.

But the dude in the video wants to lay this all off at the feet of identity politics, the culture war, blah, blah, blah. It's like me saying that there was a four-year decline in ratings during the Trump years so I blame Trump.  

And all his horseshit about the political movies Hollywood makes - really - here is the top 10 box office for 2019:

1     Avengers: Endgame     
2     The Lion King
3     Frozen II     
4     Spider-Man: Far from Home     
5     Captain Marvel     
6     Joker     
7     Star Wars: Episode IX - The Rise of Skywalker     
8     Toy Story 4     
9     Aladdin     
10     Jumanji: The Next Level     

Yeah - I can see the real liberal agenda here - how are these not exactly the "entertainment" that the dude was calling for Hollywood to make. - And note - it doesn't get any better as you go down the list.

The dude is just spewing his own dogma as an attack against what he views as Hollywood dogma which makes him as guilty as the institution he is railing against.




My Scripts can all be seen here:

http://dlambertson.wix.com/scripts
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Andrew
Posted: May 1st, 2021, 5:39pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from eldave1


I think you are misunderstanding my point. For argument's sake (and only that), let's say the Oscars have become more political, left and identity-based.  That is one thing. It is quite another thing to then conclude that the existence of those conditions = ratings plumment. Classical case of confusing correlation with causation.

There are so many other variables that could contribute to decline.

- What I mentioned before about changes in demographics and viewership tastes.
- The Pandemic
- The lack of credible, popular hosts (note - viewership peaked in 2014 when Ellen was the host - And my candidate for the most likely
- The growing divide between what people watch and what is actually nominated. With Marvel, DC, Avengers, Star Wars, animation dominating the box-office - none of the movies that people cared enough to watch are ever nominated and ergo - people to care to watch a show about honoring the films and stars they didn't watch. There used to be some alignment between box office and nominations. Today that is non-existent.

But the dude in the video wants to lay this all off at the feet of identity politics, the culture war, blah, blah, blah. It's like me saying that there was a four-year decline in ratings during the Trump years so I blame Trump.  

And all his horseshit about the political movies Hollywood makes - really - here is the top 10 box office for 2019:

1     Avengers: Endgame     
2     The Lion King
3     Frozen II     
4     Spider-Man: Far from Home     
5     Captain Marvel     
6     Joker     
7     Star Wars: Episode IX - The Rise of Skywalker     
8     Toy Story 4     
9     Aladdin     
10     Jumanji: The Next Level     

Yeah - I can see the real liberal agenda here - how are these not exactly the "entertainment" that the dude was calling for Hollywood to make. - And note - it doesn't get any better as you go down the list.

The dude is just spewing his own dogma as an attack against what he views as Hollywood dogma which makes him as guilty as the institution he is railing against.




I hear you, and I understood your original post and point.

I tried to cover that, i.e. acknowledging different perspectives, and whether or not it's a good thing that we are seeing increasingly overt political statements is a personal choice.

As for the cause of the decline, there are, of course, a number of metrics that could account for it. No one really knows the answer to that for sure. One such way is to mionitor the drop-off in audience by % versus awards like the Grammys, which could hint at whether or not it's a generational issue.

I agree with the video, and you don't, which is all good.

Just trying to establish some common reality, i.e. an increase in politics in awards and output, plus a significantly increased focus on identity. Again, it's up to each individual to decide if those are good developments or not. We all have our own opinions on that.

In terms of BO, even those films which are hits are full of dialogue about 'white people this, white people that', which mirrors the broader discourse around race, and what's permissible to say, and what's not.

The bigger issue is I'm a centre left liberal, and I detest this stuff. People on the right much more so. Plenty are too afraid to say anything at all. My fear remains that while you may not see what I'm mentioning (and you may be right, and me wrong), there is a significant number who do, many of whom are written off as right wingers beyond saving, but such a claim is more difficult against a liberal like me! Film will inevitably suffer if people are turned off from it because of over politicisation, which is really at the root of the video.

Yes, the guy is being very political himself, but as a reaction to Hollywood, not in instigation. The guy just loves film, and this video is his view on how the current political climate in film is endagering its existence.


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Zack
Posted: May 1st, 2021, 5:55pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from Andrew


The beauty of life in the differing perspectives, for sure.

From my end, I personally agree with his positions here, in that there is a clear political positioning from Hollywood output. And that output aligns perfectly with a postmodern worldview. It's up to each person to decide if they agree with that being good or not.

Surely there are elements we can all agree on (even when we don't agree with the conclusions the video chap reaches):

- The Oscars has become overtly political at a pace it's hard to believe. It was only the 2000s where Michael Moore was booed. It's moved away from a celebration of film to become yet another organ of the relentless politicisation of every facet of life. Film is supposed to unite. To breakdown barriers and to highlight our commonalities, not our differences which are being exaggerated and presented as chasms impossible to navigate. Surely we an agree the Oscars is not celebrating art > politics right now, or a celebration of what film for everyone. The art.

- We have a relentless focus on the identity of the filmmakers and actors.

This should be pretty easy to agree on. More political, more identity focused.

We can disagree on the merit of the above, but agreeing on those two points should be uncontroversial.

The Critical Drinker's summary is pretty much:

- Stop focusing on the superificial elements > the art
- Pampered, morally imperfect individuals forcing their political opinions on people is tiresome. Pretty sure most of us feel this way when it's relentlessly done in our personal space
- Film is escapism, and content needn't be relentlessly politcial in nature
- The entertainment has become secondary to the messaging

Personally agree with all of the above, and whilst I love a thoughtful, compelling and provocative political film as much as the next person, my biggest gripe with politically-focused output right now is that it's poorly made. It's not attempting to challenge; it's attempting to persuade (at best) or browbeat me into submission (at worst), often offering up opinion as fact.

Anyway, just thought I'd share the video because I love film, care about it, and want a relentless focus only on the art, rarther than sullying this unique medium by soaking it in the culture wars x


Agree 110% with all of this. Couldn't have said it better myself.


Quoted from Andrew




The bigger issue is I'm a centre left liberal, and I detest this stuff. People on the right much more so. Plenty are too afraid to say anything at all. My fear remains that while you may not see what I'm mentioning (and you may be right, and me wrong), there is a significant number who do, many of whom are written off as right wingers beyond saving...




Unfortunately, this is a very real fear.





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Zack  -  May 1st, 2021, 6:14pm
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eldave1
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Quoted from Andrew


As for the cause of the decline, there are, of course, a number of metrics that could account for it. No one really knows the answer to that for sure. One such way is to mionitor the drop-off in audience by % versus awards like the Grammys, which could hint at whether or not it's a generational issue.

I agree with the video, and you don't, which is all good.

Just trying to establish some common reality, i.e. an increase in politics in awards and output, plus a significantly increased focus on identity. Again, it's up to each individual to decide if those are good developments or not. We all have our own opinions on that.

In terms of BO, even those films which are hits are full of dialogue about 'white people this, white people that', which mirrors the broader discourse around race, and what's permissible to say, and what's not.

The bigger issue is I'm a centre left liberal, and I detest this stuff. People on the right much more so. Plenty are too afraid to say anything at all. My fear remains that while you may not see what I'm mentioning (and you may be right, and me wrong), there is a significant number who do, many of whom are written off as right wingers beyond saving, but such a claim is more difficult against a liberal like me! Film will inevitably suffer if people are turned off from it because of over politicisation, which is really at the root of the video.

Yes, the guy is being very political himself, but as a reaction to Hollywood, not in instigation. The guy just loves film, and this video is his view on how the current political climate in film is endagering its existence.


First - Grammy ratings down 51%.

Second - are political leanings seem to be similar - I am a moderate for the most part.

Third - we are in disagreement on the place of politics in film and the Oscars, I take no umbrage to the expression of views by actors, directors, producers -  even the ones I disagree with.  That's their right.

There is no rule that requires they are politically vanilla and who is this dude to proclaim that actors and directors need to check their first amendment rights and political views at the door so as not to ruin his award presentation viewing?

Film, actors and producers have always been political because they are made by humans. They glorified war for a period of time and then they chastised it for a period of time. They made fun of gays for a period of time and they elevated gays for a period of time.  They pictured Indians as slaughter-worthy for a period of time and then pictured them as victims of genocide.  etc. effing etc.

So yeah, even as a Democrat, I am not a fan of wokeness and identity politics and think that they can be counterproductive. BUT  I would never have the hubris this dude does to lecture others when it is and isn't appropriate to express their views.  It's not his effing award - it's theirs.  If Brando wants to talk about the plight of the American Indian when he accepts his - cool - whatever. ANd id Heston wants to talk about the greatness of America when he accepts his - okey-dokey. It's the best part of living in a free society.




My Scripts can all be seen here:

http://dlambertson.wix.com/scripts
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