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SimplyScripts Screenwriting Discussion Board    One Week Challenge    May 2010 One Week Challenge  ›  OWC - Warren's Choice
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  Author    OWC - Warren's Choice  (currently 2870 views)
Don
Posted: May 18th, 2010, 2:15pm Report to Moderator
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So, what are you writing?

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Warren's Choice by Anonymous - Short, Drama - A vegan and and a carnivore argue over their dietary philosophies... - pdf, format


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stebrown
Posted: May 18th, 2010, 2:44pm Report to Moderator
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Interesting debate but I don't think you spent enough time with that. If you started out with them in their predicament and maybe had the other stuff as flashbacks or something it would work better.

Who are Alan and Tracey Deal and what do they have to do with the story? Why give the dog an age? On first read I thought it was a girl and a dog because of the age.

Big, big blocks of dialogue and action really harmed the read. Almost all of that would be easily trimmed. This could and probably should be a script of about 5 or 6 pages.

Thought-provoking debate though but I think you spent too much time on camera directions that really did nothing for the story and less time on what was important and that is the plot. Good work though, could just use a re-structuring and some editting.

Ste


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c m hall
Posted: May 18th, 2010, 3:13pm Report to Moderator
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I like this one.  Too bad it ended when it did.
Some fine dialogue.  
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Ryan1
Posted: May 18th, 2010, 3:59pm Report to Moderator
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This is officially the third script I've read that raises the issue of dog eating.  This one dances around the questions in the veg vs carn debate, but never really tackles them head on.

This script has many things working against it, IMO.  To begin with, the opening passage, and most of the other scenes describing the arctic wasteland, uses  "we see,"  "we move"  in describing camera movement.  In pretty much every screenwriting book I've read, that sort of thing is frowned upon.

Neither Alan nor Clive are particularly likeable characters, which is a problem because at the end, you don't really care whether one or both of them die.  They are also both incredibly long-winded.  And, I think a lot of the dialogue has real clunky, unnatural feel to it:

CLIVE
Because before, you had your
fill, and you never went without, so
you could sustain your point of view,
your attitude - you might just call it
your philosophy - and all because - at
the end of the day - let’s not get hung
up on etiquette here - you got a full
belly.

I'm still not sure what exactly they were doing in the arctic wasteland.  We see them in the flashbacks, but I never got how they wound up out there.

The main problem I had was that the story never created any real drama.  Instead of using cinematic techniques to build tension, we got a lot of talking.  A whole lot of talking.  Also, when I got to the end, I realized I had no clue who the Warren in "Warren's Choice" was.  I had to go back to page one to see that it was Alan's last name.  So, it was an odd choice for a title.

The writer definitely has skill, but this one was a total misfire for me.
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screenrider
Posted: May 18th, 2010, 4:10pm Report to Moderator
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I'm just gonna echo Ryan1's comments.  Btw, welcome to SimplyScripts.  
Your reviews are intelligently written and spot on.
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Dreamscale
Posted: May 18th, 2010, 5:39pm Report to Moderator
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Yep, Ryan is all over it.

Many, many mistakes and poor writing on display here. Typos, grammar issues, poor punctuation, blah, blah, blah.

The huge blocks of text and dialogue looks and read terribly.  Just think about the visuals while these characters speak for minutes at a time.

Too bad too, cause in the end, it could have worked.  It's a quality ending, IMO, and you didn't puss out at all.

Needs alot of work though.


To ski or not to ski...that's not even a question.

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Dreamscale  -  May 18th, 2010, 8:04pm
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grademan
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At least, you didn't go for the Old Yeller ending. It wouldn't surprise me if Lucy (6) the dog killed off Clive and Allen to shut them the hell up.

Thank you Ryan1 for writing an eloquent review so I could be a smartass.

EDIT: Seriously, the long blocks of conversation were a major block for me; making this story hard to get into. I know they were in the middle of the Antartic so talking was probably long winded as an occupational hazard. The camera has nothing to do whilst dialogue is on for that long.

Revision History (1 edits)
grademan  -  May 19th, 2010, 9:34am
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Sandra Elstree.
Posted: May 18th, 2010, 7:50pm Report to Moderator
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What if the Hokey Pokey, IS what it's all about?

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Quoted from screenrider


I'm just gonna echo Ryan1's comments.  Btw, welcome to SimplyScripts.  
Your reviews are intelligently written and spot on.


I echo Screenrider's sentiments here. Ryan's comments are full of substance and intelligence.

Regarding this script, I'm just not getting anything from this script and I don't have the desire to continue with the read. Maybe tomorrow.

I'm going to repeat what I said in another thread. I think that many of the scripts are paying too much attention to the theme and not enough to the story.

The following dialogue:

CLIVE (CONT’D)
When you have no choice, or when you
are forced to choose, then, and when
you stick by what you are saying then
you can say that it was something that
you fought for. Now - it’s nothing
real, it’s just an easy ideal - an easy
choice. You never had to suffer for it.
You never suffered for want of
anything. So how can you hold your
ideals so high? How come they mean so
much more than some wife with a breadline
husband buying just whatever she
can afford? Do you think she read
anything - I mean really, do you think
that these people read things and then
go I’ll buy this or that based on what
I’ve read? They read something ok - the
price. That’s all.

I think is way too long for a short. At least way too long for this short. I'm not against long chunks of dialogue, but it's that relativity factor and what works here won't work there.

You have a really strong opening image:

As far as the eye can see, there is white. Harsh, deadly.
Arctic winds sweep across and whip up any bit of snow
throwing it carelessly, obliviously.

Thanks for participating,

Sandra



A known mistake is better than an unknown truth.
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Sandra Elstree.
Posted: May 18th, 2010, 8:02pm Report to Moderator
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What if the Hokey Pokey, IS what it's all about?

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Quoted from grademan
At least, you didn't go for the Old Yeller ending. It wouldn't surprise me if Lucy (6) the dog killed off Clive and Allen to shut them the hell up.

Thank you Ryan1 for writing an eloquent review so I could be a smartass.


There's a little smartass hiding in all of us.  

Sandra



A known mistake is better than an unknown truth.
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Sandra Elstree.
Posted: May 18th, 2010, 8:08pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from Sandra Elstree.


You have a really strong opening image:

As far as the eye can see, there is white. Harsh, deadly.
Arctic winds sweep across and whip up any bit of snow
throwing it carelessly, obliviously.



I'm not talking to myself, I'm answering the person who wrote that awhile ago. That's the other me.  

Anyways, I should mention that some might say it's a bit long and that

"Carelessly" and "obliviously" are adverbs that don't need to be there.

Weigh it how you want to when you want to and discern for yourself.

It worked for me in the opening, but too much without a good hook and establishing a connection with the audience slows the read and might kill the read.

Sandra




A known mistake is better than an unknown truth.
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greg
Posted: May 18th, 2010, 10:29pm Report to Moderator
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I think this one could have been among the best of the bunch but it fell short in its execution.

First thing's first: I've noticed a lot of people wondering why some of the scripts don't give their characters names.  This one is exactly the opposite - why give characters names who don't even speak?  It clogs up the page and makes us think you're introducing someone important.  The flashbacks were also oddly placed and the dialogue was very, very chunky and rambling.  

That said, I did like the direction you took with the vegan suggesting going for the dog and the meat eater defending it.  Good switcheroo there.  The ending was also very gutsy.  I just wish you had taken a different direction to get there.

Needs work but it has promise.


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TheRichcraft
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Lose a lot of the preachy dialogue, and you could wind up with a nice, tight, good script.

Love how the vegan is the first to snap after only a few days without food.  But since there is water everywhere, albeit as ice and snow, the two could have filled up their stomachs with liquid and put off the hunger pains for a few more days.  I did this myself when I drank only water for two days in order to lose weight.
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pwhitcroft
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I’ll make notes as I go..

Pg 1 – “throwing it carelessly, obliviously.” – I’m a bit of an adverb demon myself, but I’m told adverbs are not fashionable. Personally I think the odd one here and there is fine, but putting two in a row might be pushing your luck.

“We pan to the right.” – “We” is a big screenwriting taboo, as is directing the camera. Of course you might know this already if this is a “pisstake”, in which case I’m wasting my time making these comments.

Pg 2 – The dialogues are quite long.

Pg 4 – It’s an awkward read, but the story has some intrigue.

Pg 6 – I like the way you have role reversed them.

Pg 8 – The ambiguous ending is really smart and you didn’t break the golden rule about the dog.

Overall, the story in this is effective and does a nice job of presenting the ethical dilemma. Your formatting has all kinds of issues, but hell you can learn that stuff.


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Coding Herman
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The "we see", "we pan", "we move", "we pass" is kinda annoying. It takes up space and slows down the read. You can take those out without affecting the story.

Whoa, huge blocks of dialogue....and they don't go anywhere. Dialogue are snappy, short, fragmented and go off on tangents, unless the character is making a speech to an audience. BUT dialogue also needs to have purpose. If a character say something that doesn't move the story, then the character better shut up.

By the way, who's Clive talking to?

I finally managed to finish it, but it was a very, very slow read. Sorry, I didn't understand what was going on. The scenes don't match up. Sometimes you're in Antarctica, and then you cut to a modern flat, and then some place else. I couldn't orient myself in the story.

First, cut out the "we"s. Second, shorten dialogue and descriptions that are more than 4 lines long. Third, make sure on every scene cut, the readers can find the connections.

It's a serious attempt, I think, but needs lots of work.


FEATURE:

Memwipe
- Sci-Fi, Action, Thriller (114 pages) - In a world where memories can be erased by request, a Memory Erasing Specialist desperately searches for the culprit when his wife becomes a target for erasure -- with his former colleagues hot on his trail.
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Trojan
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Just realized I had not read this script. But I see the author has not commented on any other scripts even though he is a board member so I won't bother with a review. Except to say it was a massive chore to read and poorly written IMO. Jumping all over the place, characters with pointless last names etc. Apparently there was a story in here somewhere but I failed to find it.
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wonkavite
Posted: May 22nd, 2010, 12:32pm Report to Moderator
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Interesting.

Haven't read many of these yet, but this one was intelligently themed and has potential.

Truth in disclosure: I'm primarily vegan myself (pure vegan for three years, now somewhat modified.  And my reasons for being veggie are strictly moral, not health related.)  Have never been the loud, protesting type - but more philosophical in bent.

I really would like to have seen more detail in the discussions - why Alan was vegan, etc...why Clive wasn't....

Also, although I wasn't offended by Alan's "change of mind" - after all, there are veggie types who would do that - I would liked to have seen a little more argument against Clive.  Hey, you've been eating innocent animals all your life, when you didn't even have to...and now you're going to fight to save your puppy?  Kinda hypocritical, no?

So - IMHO - good a little further with the script, deepen the characters and their motivations, and this could be really good.

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grademan  -  May 23rd, 2010, 8:17am
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Forgive
Posted: May 26th, 2010, 12:25pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from Trojan
Just realized I had not read this script. But I see the author has not commented on any other scripts even though he is a board member so I won't bother with a review. Except to say it was a massive chore to read and poorly written IMO. Jumping all over the place, characters with pointless last names etc. Apparently there was a story in here somewhere but I failed to find it.


OK - first of all where are you getting this from? I have commented on other scripts, and what exactly does it mean to be a board member? Why do you say you won't bother with a review, and commence with a contracted destructive critisim? Try and look at some of the scripts I have commented on, at least I like to think that they are constructive.

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Forgive
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Let The Sky Fall

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Thank to everybody who has responded to this script - many of the remarks are really very constructive, and I feel that I'm learning a lot quickly from a lot of that feedback - again, I don't know, but I'm in England, so a different time zone (work full time, and have a family), so I can't always respond as quick as some people, but I certainly take on board what people are saying, and it does feed back into the scripts I'm writing - I also spend time reading other good film scripts (and watching films & and a bit of writing...) so I can't spend all day every day on here, but what I do get is hugely valuable - so thanks to all who have inputted. (This response is to long isn't it..? mmm still learning...)
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Trojan
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Quoted from Forgive


OK - first of all where are you getting this from? I have commented on other scripts, and what exactly does it mean to be a board member? Why do you say you won't bother with a review, and commence with a contracted destructive critisim? Try and look at some of the scripts I have commented on, at least I like to think that they are constructive.


Which scripts, in this OWC, have you commented on?
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Dreamscale
Posted: May 26th, 2010, 2:28pm Report to Moderator
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He didn't comment on any OWC scripts, which is just downright WEAK!


To ski or not to ski...that's not even a question.
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Trojan
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Quoted from Dreamscale
He didn't comment on any OWC scripts, which is just downright WEAK!


Yeah that's what I thought, yet he is claiming that he has commented on other scripts which is clearly not the case. It amazes me how some people claim they don't have an hour to spare to read and comment on a couple of scripts yet they obviously have hours and hours to spend writing their own script. It's a piss poor effort.
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Sandra Elstree.
Posted: May 26th, 2010, 11:36pm Report to Moderator
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What if the Hokey Pokey, IS what it's all about?

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Quoted from Trojan


Yeah that's what I thought, yet he is claiming that he has commented on other scripts which is clearly not the case. It amazes me how some people claim they don't have an hour to spare to read and comment on a couple of scripts yet they obviously have hours and hours to spend writing their own script. It's a piss poor effort.


Sorry Trojan, but I'm going to take an opposite view here.  

This individual has jumped on here. OK. He's participating. Is he not?

Yes, in a capacity. No, in the capacity you would like.

Yet...

If we don't have to the plus and minus edge of the scale, we have nothing from which to gauge.

Lachen. (thus) (therefore) (hence) we need to appreciate that we have a measuring stick here. ? I'm not sure, but I'm listening to your point of view and acknowledging a fixed point from which you gauge.

Sandra




A known mistake is better than an unknown truth.
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Trojan
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The whole idea of the forum, and the OWC in particular, is that you get free feedback on your scripts. In return, you offer feedback on other scripts. Pretty simple concept really. If people have no intention of reading other work then they should not bother submitting their scripts, it is just rude. They take but give nothing back.

How has this guy contributed? He said 'thanks for the feedback' and that was it. People spend their time in good faith on scripts under the assumption the author will return the favour. When those people turn out to be leeches it is annoying and taking time that could be better spent on scripts that deserve it.

Seriously how hard is it to read just a few scripts and post your comments on it? I think Sandra that you commented on all, or most, of the scripts. Which is a fantastic effort considering you didn't enter a script yourself. I think Andrew, James and maybe one or two others might have done the same. Which is very good of them. But just highlights how some people who do enter are incredibly selfish and offer nothing of value. I'm not just talking about the author of this script, but all of the people who don't return the reads. IMO they should have their scripts removed and/or not be allowed to participate in future challenges. So I stand by my original statement, it's a REALLY piss poor effort.
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Sandra Elstree.
Posted: May 27th, 2010, 12:35am Report to Moderator
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What if the Hokey Pokey, IS what it's all about?

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Quoted from Trojan
The whole idea of the forum, and the OWC in particular, is that you get free feedback on your scripts. In return, you offer feedback on other scripts. Pretty simple concept really. If people have no intention of reading other work then they should not bother submitting their scripts, it is just rude. They take but give nothing back.

How has this guy contributed? He said 'thanks for the feedback' and that was it. People spend their time in good faith on scripts under the assumption the author will return the favour. When those people turn out to be leeches it is annoying and taking time that could be better spent on scripts that deserve it.

Seriously how hard is it to read just a few scripts and post your comments on it? I think Sandra that you commented on all, or most, of the scripts. Which is a fantastic effort considering you didn't enter a script yourself. I think Andrew, James and maybe one or two others might have done the same. Which is very good of them. But just highlights how some people who do enter are incredibly selfish and offer nothing of value. I'm not just talking about the author of this script, but all of the people who don't return the reads. IMO they should have their scripts removed and/or not be allowed to participate in future challenges. So I stand by my original statement, it's a REALLY piss poor effort.


Please, (Bevakasha) don't get me wrong. I understand where you are coming from; however, I just want to offer that other side of the coin.

The fact that these individuals have "given" "offered up" something for me to read is a gift to me. They needn't read my script or "lack of a script", because this is just the way it is this time around.

For some weird reason, I appreciate the opportunity that is presented here and I understand that we will get a variety of give/take scripts.

Sometimes people show up, they leave and never to return, and yet...

They leave an impact. Kinduv like that shadowy presence that you almost don't even consider-- a dream that you never remember until something "snaps" you to.

Even the fact that you "give 'em Hell" is good because it draws our attention and makes it real.

Boy do I sound weird.

Thank you though. It wouldn't make sense without you.

Sandra



A known mistake is better than an unknown truth.
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Forgive
Posted: May 27th, 2010, 3:10am Report to Moderator
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Trojan, Dreamscale. Is this what you call positive feedback? Where do you get your negativity from? It is weary people like you who ruin this site for new people like me. Last script that I commented on..? 'War in Spring Gardens'. Go on, look it up, don't just take my word for it. And do please note, that I don't involve any name-calling during my feedback, and I try and make it positive and constructive.

Second point, for which you will no doubt self-righteously call me a liar (and worse, which I have been called in my small short lived time on this site), I have read scripts that I have not fedback to for two reasons:
1) I didn't initially feel 'qualified' enough to as I was still in the learning process myself (would you like me to teach other people my mistakes?)
2) Any point I had wished to make had been put more eloquently by another conrtibuter.

And lastly, if I put my name into the search engine here I get nothing. Is that where you are getting your information from that I have not commented on any scripts? Ok, from now on, I will keep a record of any script that I comment on so that the ill-informed and foul-mouthed among this community can quickly be corrected.

Simon
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rendevous
Posted: May 27th, 2010, 4:37am Report to Moderator
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I've read this and I'll comment it on it later via an edit. Suffice to say it would probably be inappropriate to write my opinions on it right now.

Here's the reason why. Bleeding obvious but sometimes that needs stating to keep the peace. Or at least try.

The only folks who run this place are the bosses and the mods. They are the gatekeepers. Many others will try and help the mods run the site. Sometimes they are completely wrong.

There are a set of rules for this site. I suggest some members refresh their memories as their behaviour of late seems to violate some of them.

This is a website for writers. It's supposed to help, not hinder.

I'm not a mod. Not even close. I do like The Who. Does that count? No? Oh. Okay.

Now, I have a house to clean and some other work to do. Have a good day all.

You kids play nice now.

L&P

R x


Out Of Character - updated


New Used Car

Green

Right Back

The Deuce - OWC - now on STS

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Trojan
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Quoted from Forgive
Trojan, Dreamscale. Is this what you call positive feedback? Where do you get your negativity from? It is weary people like you who ruin this site for new people like me. Last script that I commented on..? 'War in Spring Gardens'. Go on, look it up, don't just take my word for it. And do please note, that I don't involve any name-calling during my feedback, and I try and make it positive and constructive.


Ok we are not talking about commenting on scripts in the other forums, but scripts in this actual OWC in which you took part. It is genreally seen as very poor form by 95% of the members on here for someone to enter their script in the challenge and to not comment on other peoples scripts. Understand? War in Spring Gardens was not part of this OWC hence you have not contributed anything to anybody else.

To be fair, like I said, this is not solely directed at you. But to everybody who doesn't bother to return reads and comments. If you actually read the initial thread that has the OWC genre/theme you'll see it stated many times by people that you are expected to read scripts and post your thoughts for at least some of the scripts in the challenge. To not do so is a pretty poor effort, like I said.

So it's not me or anyone else being negative towards you, or ruining this site for you. It's people who take but give nothing in return that frustrate the board members to the point that this needs to be brought up every single time. And it's annoying. Imagine if me and everyone else adopted the attitude of not wanting to comment on scripts in the challenge. How do you think that would work? You'd have 35 scripts and zero comments on each one.

Do you understand what I'm saying?
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Forgive
Posted: May 27th, 2010, 10:26am Report to Moderator
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I do understand what you are saying and I have the following that you and others should understand:

1. 'When those people turn out to be leeches' and other terms is not a way to get the message over.

2. The purpose of the OWC maybe should be explained more clearly - I tried to read some of the scripts, but there were no links to any of them at all - so just guessed that the judges were chosen by the organiser. If everyone should have read them, then why couldn't we access them until after the competition???

This is the first (and no doubt last) time that I will enter the OWC - my question is why do people on this site have to be just so aggressive??? It's like the bully-boys are trying to take over - instead of any kind of reasoned or rational approach to any issue, you just get leapt upon, with people insulting you, calling you offensive names - if anyone joins this site on the premise that they enjoy writing - then they better get up to speed with the rules and regs pretty damn fast or they are in for a pretty good verbal kicking for any mistakes they make.

Don't you know of any better ways of doing things?

Simon
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Grandma Bear
Posted: May 27th, 2010, 10:44am Report to Moderator
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"The purpose of the OWC maybe should be explained more clearly"  I don't see how it can be explained more clearly.

There were no links to the scripts???  I read them all. Including yours...

Judges?

It's not a competition...


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Trojan
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Quoted from Forgive
'When those people turn out to be leeches' and other terms is not a way to get the message over.


Obviously having it stated plainly and clearly in the original thread doesn't seem to get the message across either.


Quoted from Forgive
2. The purpose of the OWC maybe should be explained more clearly - I tried to read some of the scripts, but there were no links to any of them at all - so just guessed that the judges were chosen by the organiser. If everyone should have read them, then why couldn't we access them until after the competition??


I literally have no idea what you are talking about. All of the scripts were available to read by anyone from the moment Don posted them. All you had to do was open the thread and click on the name of the script. And since you have read other scripts on here you know exactly how it works. There were/are no judges. Just reviewers. People like you and me who read them and posted their comments. As for the purpose of the OWC, do you want a big neon billboard erected outside your house with the OWC guidelines for you to read? What is so difficult about reading the original posts in the OWC thread that clearly explains everything? If you were having problems understanding anything, what is so difficult about posting a comment to the effect of 'hey guys I'm new, how does this OWC work exactly? I am trying to read the scripts but am having trouble. Help.'

Am I speaking another language here or what? I mean it is like 2 weeks since all the scripts have been up and you STILL have not commented on any of them. What's stopping you from doing that?


Quoted from Forgive
This is the first (and no doubt last) time that I will enter the OWC - my question is why do people on this site have to be just so aggressive??? It's like the bully-boys are trying to take over - instead of any kind of reasoned or rational approach to any issue, you just get leapt upon, with people insulting you, calling you offensive names - if anyone joins this site on the premise that they enjoy writing - then they better get up to speed with the rules and regs pretty damn fast or they are in for a pretty good verbal kicking for any mistakes they make.


Mate I suggest you toughen up a bit. I have not called you any offensive names or insulted you. I said there are people who are leeches by not contributing, that is hardly calling you offesnive names. You enjoy writing, great. We all do. Do you think it is fair for someone to write something and have everyone offer their time to read it and for that person to not read anything in return? If you are put off from entering another OWC because of this then perhaps you aren't cut out to be a writer because you will cop a lot worse than this, trust me. So stop taking everything so personally and just look at the issue I am actually talking about. Now that you are aware how it works, it is not too late to comment on the scripts of people who read yours.

Cheers,
Tim.
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Andrew
Posted: May 27th, 2010, 10:55am Report to Moderator
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Si,

To be fair - as a fellow Brit, and someone who can get your sensibilities - I can vouch that Tim is a guy who not only writes well, but comments with the best intentions.

Yes, there are people here with nothing but bad advice and ridiculous comments; and that's the internet for you.

I have read a script of yours and see your talent - don't feel like you should be moved away from the site.

Just contribute and ignore the obvious arseholes would be my 0.02.

Andrew


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Forgive
Posted: May 27th, 2010, 1:25pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from Grandma Bear
"The purpose of the OWC maybe should be explained more clearly"  I don't see how it can be explained more clearly.

There were no links to the scripts???  I read them all. Including yours...

Judges?

It's not a competition...

See? Why split hairs - it's been described as a competition so many times - you're deliberatley trying not to understand and that's the problem here. You don't see how it can be explained more clearly - then you're not thinking clearly. The challenge is to be reviewed by a set of chosen people - judges - whatever or is open to all - everyone who submits a script should review all of the scripts - could have been said - made clear - but you don't see that 'cos you don't want to see it - you dumb down because you want to dumb down. It's called lack of empathy, a lack of desire to see things from another person's point of view - egotism. And that is precisely why there are so many insults on this site, and why people are so quick to hit out at other people. Try changing your life a little, and have a go at looking at things from another's perspective before chucking on your sunglasses and then going 'but I don't see a problem'.

Simon

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Grandma Bear
Posted: May 27th, 2010, 1:41pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from Forgive
it's been described as a competition so many times - you're deliberatley trying not to understand and that's the problem here.

When did Don ever say it was a competition?

I'm not deliberately trying to not understand. Why would I do that?


Quoted from Forgive
The challenge is to be reviewed by a set of chosen people - judges -

Who are these chosen people? I'd like to know. I would love for them to read my script.


Quoted from Forgive
everyone who submits a script should review all of the scripts

No one's ever said that, but it's been suggested to all participants to read at least 3 entries.


Quoted from Forgive
you don't see that 'cos you don't want to see it - you dumb down because you want to dumb down. It's called lack of empathy, a lack of desire to see things from another person's point of view - egotism.

...Thank you.  




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Dreamscale
Posted: May 27th, 2010, 1:48pm Report to Moderator
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OK, Simon, let's get to the root of this problem here...

You say things were not clear...that you didn't understand...that you couldn't open any scripts...blah, blah, blah.  You then come out and accuse various people (myself included) of various things.

OK, I get that.  Help me out here now...

How long have you been a member on SS?  How did you come across the OWC?  Were you familiar with it from previous ones, or just this one now?  Did you not understand that those who enter, also are expected to read and comment on the anonymous entries?  Did you not see the scripts start showing up in groups of 5 Sunday morning?  Did you not see any of the feedback on all the scripts, inclduing yours?

I just find it very strange that you figured out how to enter, but didn't understand what it even was you were entering into.

Please explain and help us out here, so we can figure out where the problem actually is.


To ski or not to ski...that's not even a question.
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Forgive
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* All you had to do was open the thread and click on the name of the script. And since you have read other scripts on here you know exactly how it works.
- Sorry - not my experience at all. I did try and read the scripts, and could not access them. It certainly was not the same process as reading the other scripts - therefore my assuption that certain people had been allocated the taskof reviewing (not having been involved in a OWC before).

*As for the purpose of the OWC, do you want a big neon billboard erected outside your house with the OWC guidelines for you to read.
- Sarcasm. No, having taken into account the aggressiveness with which people have responded, just clarity.

*If you were having problems understanding anything, what is so difficult about posting a comment to the effect of 'hey guys I'm new, how does this OWC work exactly? I am trying to read the scripts but am having trouble. Help.
- Please think about what you are saying - I didn't realise there was a problem until people started having a go after the challenge.

*it is like 2 weeks since all the scripts have been up... What's stopping you from doing that? (reading them)
- Sorry - there is no deadline (unless I've got this wrong as well) - I still have printed scripts from a while back that I am reading. And I don't have to keep to your dealines either. I had someone respond to something I posted some time back - I still appreciated it.

*Mate I suggest you toughen up a bit.
- Sorry, but again, you are wrong. I teach my children manners so they can use them whenthey are adult. There is a difference between incivility and toughness. Believe me. I have had to bite my tongue at times to respond to the negativity on this site. And I'm speaking up against some of the hostile comments, and some of the destructive critisim. That is not weakness - weakness is joining in with the hoodlums.

*Do you think it is fair for someone to write something and have everyone offer their time to read it and for that person to not read anything in return? If you are put off from entering another OWC because of this then perhaps you aren't cut out to be a writer.
- Dare I suggest that you are not cut out to be a writer as you do not think enough about the things that you are writing? First I am put off because of the attitude that has been shown. I did not read anything on the challenge because of a misunderstanding, not because I intentionally refuse to review other people's work. You have your argument confused (deliberately, I would suggest, in order to sustain it).
- Secondly, there is an argument which I think you will find too complicated (I don't believe you are a thinker). Quite simply, your ability to give feedback is strengthened by your skill in the area. As someone who is learning, there is a reduced value to any feedback as you can tell another learner very little that will guide them. As you gain in experience, you have more knowledge about what your are feeding back, and therefore the quality of your feedback grows, and is of greater value to those people. So where I have given feedback, it has been more valuable proportional to what I have learnt. As you learn, and become able to see more clearly what you are doing, then you are better able to aid others. Is that too difficult for you to understand?
Simon
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Forgive
Posted: May 27th, 2010, 2:05pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from Dreamscale
OK, Simon, let's get to the root of this problem here...

You say things were not clear...that you didn't understand...that you couldn't open any scripts...blah, blah, blah.  You then come out and accuse various people (myself included) of various things.

OK, I get that.  Help me out here now...

How long have you been a member on SS?
>>Since March 21st, 2010

How did you come across the OWC?
>> Saw it on the home page.  

Were you familiar with it from previous ones, or just this one now?
>>Just this one.  

Did you not understand that those who enter, also are expected to read and comment on the anonymous entries?
>>No, I did not understand that.

Did you not see the scripts start showing up in groups of 5 Sunday morning?
>>No, I did not see that.

Did you not see any of the feedback on all the scripts, inclduing yours?
>>Yes, I saw the feedback, but had not been able to access the scripts.

I just find it very strange that you figured out how to enter, but didn't understand what it even was you were entering into.
>>I accept that. I think I may at best call it a misunderstanding. I saw the competion, and uploaded according to the guideline, then could not access any scripts, thought little of it, as I assumed that the people reviewing them had been sent the scripts by Don to have them reviewed, being under the impression that these guys were 'better qualified' to review them.

Please explain and help us out here, so we can figure out where the problem actually is.


I hope this explanation is adequate for you.
Simon.
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Dreamscale
Posted: May 27th, 2010, 2:21pm Report to Moderator
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Well, I guess it's adequate based on the fact that you actually answered all my questions, but it doesn't make sense to me still, misunderstanding or not.

OWC scripts open up just like any other posted scripts, so if you saw feedback flowing in, you should have been able to open the script just like everyone else was.  Also, you are familiar with posting, so you should have had no problem posting a question...like, "How do I open these OWC scripts?"  Or, "Who are all these people reviewing the OWC scripts?"

Misunderstandings take place all the time, Simon.  I'm sure you know that.  IMO, you are not handling this well at all, and are totally alienating yourself from a bunch of good people here at SS.  If the misunderstanding was on your part, just fess up to ti and move on. Quit making little hissy comments to people who are speaking the 100% truth.

Also, you know how this works now. You know you should have read and commented on OWC scripts.  Why not go back and provide comments to everyone who provided comments on your script?  Most of these entries are short, so in the time you've spent arguing with people here, you could have already read and commented on 3 or 4 scripts.

You know what I'm saying?  It sure couldn't hurt...


To ski or not to ski...that's not even a question.
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Trojan
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Quoted from Forgive
* All you had to do was open the thread and click on the name of the script. And since you have read other scripts on here you know exactly how it works.
- Sorry - not my experience at all. I did try and read the scripts, and could not access them. It certainly was not the same process as reading the other scripts - therefore my assuption that certain people had been allocated the taskof reviewing (not having been involved in a OWC before).


The process is exactly the same, stop BS'ing everyone and just admit you didn't bother to read them. The links worked for everyone else, why are you special?


Quoted Text
*it is like 2 weeks since all the scripts have been up... What's stopping you from doing that? (reading them)
- Sorry - there is no deadline (unless I've got this wrong as well) - I still have printed scripts from a while back that I am reading. And I don't have to keep to your dealines either. I had someone respond to something I posted some time back - I still appreciated it.


Yes, you have that wrong as well. People are expected to read a few scripts during the week when they are still anonymous. If you have time to write your own script and submit it, then you have time to read and comment on a couple of others at least. Stating anything to the contrary is a complete load of crap.


Quoted Text
- Sorry, but again, you are wrong. I teach my children


Sorry but from the way you are carrying on I assumed you were about 14.


Quoted Text
Believe me. I have had to bite my tongue at times to respond to the negativity on this site. And I'm speaking up against some of the hostile comments, and some of the destructive critisim. That is not weakness - weakness is joining in with the hoodlums.


So we're hoodlums now? That's funny, you should write comedy.

Like Dreamscale said, with all the time you are spending on your little hissy fits here you could have read and commented on some scripts. What you don't seem to understand is that these challenges only exist based on the notion of give and take. if everybody had your selfish attitude then the OWC would simply not exist. It needs people to make comments to keep it alive. Thankfully we have members on here who value the site and give their time and effort and ask for nothing in return, which helps cover the void left by people such as yourself.

I guess there is no getting through to you. We are all wrong and you are right. The big bad writers are being mean to poor Simon. Stop playing the victim here buddy and see this for what it really is. We are explaining to you the protocol for the OWC, as you said you had trouble understanding it. If you enter, you are expected to read scripts. Plain and simple. Anyone could understand that. Now you know, there are no excuses. So don't waste everyone's time by continuing to comment here, just go read some scripts and contribute.

Cheers,
Tim.
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bert
Posted: May 28th, 2010, 6:35am Report to Moderator
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Quoted from dogglebe, first post, OWC Genre and Theme
If you're going to submit a script, please read other people's work.  Not doing so really really sucks.


I did not notice all of the bickering on this thread until now.

I will let dogglebe's words be the final words on this back and forth -- deletions will ensue -- but will point out to Simon's detractors that at least the guy is around.

People who submit a script and never even set foot on the discussion board suck much, much harder -- Simon just happens to be around, so he takes the pounding on behalf of all the offenders -- which is not "entirely" fair.

Comment on his script if you want, but it is time for this little debate to wind down.


Hey, it's my tiny, little IMDb!
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