This was an impressive peice of work, Jeff.   As you're a tough critic I went into it with a bias attitude thinking I might be able to give you some of your own medicine.   No such luck!

Good job.

Never would have had you pinned for this one Jeff.

There's a side to your writing that I've not seen before. Thought you captured the fairy tale mood perfectly.

Good job.

Hey everybody, much thanks to all who read and provided feedback on my script.  I appreciate it very much.

As opposed to individually responding to everyone, I'm simply going to let you all know how this went down, a few tidbits of info you may not be aware of, and some general comments about what's missing and what will be included in the soon to follow repost.

As some of you know, I just went through a big relocation from Seattle to Phoenix.  I also just started working in an office again, so my lifestyle has done a complete 180...but I'm pretty sure it needed to..

Basically, this wonderful challenge came at a bad time for me, but no way was I going to miss out on it.  When the challenge parameters were released, I was very happy, as horror is my thang, and the open endedness of it, was really cool.  I really didn't have a chance to think about it much until Sunday, and that's when I realized this was going to be quite difficult with all the exact myths involved.

BIG THANKS to RAY for taking the time and effort of providing those very useful summaries and links on all the creatures and myths.  Without them, I would have been in big trouble.

So, I started thinking about potential stories, without really thinking about what myth I was going to use, as I just had so much going on, and it was the kind of stuff that I needed to do to get settled in my new place...and was way easier than doing research for this OWC.

Days kept passing and time kept ticking away.  By Thursday, I was pretty sure I liked my setup (a story being told by a mother to her child), but still hadn't done any research on the myths or where it would take place.  Thursday night, I narrowed it down to 1 of 6 myths that seemed to be similar, in terms of how I could work with them.  I think it came down to those pesky old sea witches, the sirens, Leanan Sidhe, Baobhan Sith, Selkie, and Gwragedd Annwn.  The Baobhan Sith seemed to work out best for what I was thinking.

Friday afternoon at work, I had a chance to do some research, so I found and printed out all I could, including Scottish names, Scottish dialect and words, Scottish history, Geography, and really all things Scottish.  I looked this stuff over while still at work, but still really didn't have much put together very soundly in my old nogin yet.

Got home with about 5 hours until deadline.  Spent the first going over my research and trying to pre-write in my head, while slamming down vodka, and smoking cigs like they were going out of style.  OK, at 4 hours till D-Day, I hit the computer and opened up my screenwriting software.  I had said that I was gong to properly format this one, in terms of extra lines around Slugs, and I tried to find the template, but couldn't.  I wasted 30 minutes in this attempt and really got myself in a tizzy...and panic!  Back out to the porch to calm myself down.

So, I start the actual writing with just over 3 hours to go, and I'm a bit panicky, to say the least.  Things start flowing well, and I'm confident not only will I finish, but it will be solid and I'll have a chance to make some corrections.  Yeah, right...

The beginning was easy, cause I already had it laid out in my head, but the middle and end all were fresh, other than in vague form.  The scene with the 4 men and the 4 Siths took alot more time than I had planned.  Getting the conversation down so that it flowed, came off as authentic, and worked within the story, was tough...BUT...I did come up with a few lines that I found quite hilarious about the "beholding" and "be holding" play on words.  Glad I can crack myself up.  

During the process, I continually reread what I already have, so that even though I didn't get a final edit here, the majority of it had been read over numerous times.  So, after another short break, I'm back at it, but I'm now down to 40 minutes...and I've got alot to do still, and I haven't gone back and added in things that I knew I needed to.

Panic sets in...my fingers aren't typing as smoothly...words aren't coming to me.  SHIT, I'm not going to make it!

I made fateful, but correct decision, at that point, with 30 minutes to go, to have (another) shot of Jager and a cigarette to regain my senses, and calm my ass down.  Figured out how the finale was going to play out, got back on the computer, and punched it out.  With 7 minutes to go, I still wasn't sure of the final wrap up scene, and pretty much had to wing it.

I typed "FADE OUT:" with 3 minutes until the clock struck midnight and realized I wasn't going to be able to go back and add in the few things I had hoped to.  Then, of all things, I literally couldn't figure out where the "submit" button was, and luckily, a few kind SS'ers were there in an instant to help.  I did my title sheet in a total panic, with literally no time to come up with a title, and wrote the log as I was submitting it.  Just got it in by the skin of my teeth.

I was happy with it, and still am, but there were a few things I could have/should have included if I only had an extra 30 minutes.

Some interesting details that may or may not help with some confusion will follow shortly...I feel that panic hitting again...HaHa...maybe I need a Jager...no...NO...it's frickin' morning...way too early for that nonsense!

Thanks to everyone who contributed to this wonderful OWC!

Some general info that you may or may not care to know:

The settings/locales were all real.  "Black houses" were pretty much what I was envisioning, in my pre-writing, so when I found a pic of one, I knew that was what I was after, and the town of Arnol was used, as this is where remnants of the old black houses were found.  The weather is also real, and a part of this region...so I wanted to make sure it provided a major tone in the script.

The name "Alickna" means "Defender of Mankind", so the tiny fairy's motives were foreshadowed by name alone, immediately, but also by Arabel, who told her Mither that Alickna protects her".

The names "Duff" and "Boyd" also have meaning.  Duff stands for "dark haired", and thus, he is entranced by the raven haired Sith.  Boyd stands for "blonde", and he was smitten by the blonde Sith.

The one part that seemed to upset people the most, or just not make sense, is why Ina would tell her 7 year old daughter such a graphic tale.  It never occurred to me that people would take it this way.  Here's the deal, IMO...

I think you have to do a couple things when reading a script.  First, you have to only read exactly what's written on the page, and not read things into it that you see or assume in your head.  Secondly, I think we all need to understand the realities of a given situation, within a script.

So, what the Hell am I getting at here?  Check this out...hope it helps...

Ina wouldn't, couldn't, and didn't tell Ari the exact details of what went on.  She wouldn't for obvious reasons.  She couldn't because she wasn't actually there and Alec wouldn't provide such exact conversational details, especially about Duff boasting of his manhood.  And finally, Ina's VO only mentioned the setup to the Flashback...you never actually hear her reciting any details, as it's all shown within the actual Flashback.

This was intended to be just a cool transition to get to the original encounter with the White Women.  It was meant to tie the 2 stories/plots together.

I think my error was going back to Ari's bedroom, when she asked Ina "why is it that men are this way?".  I guess it kind of makes one assume she's hearing exactly what is being shown, but that wasn't my intent. I actually just wanted to break away from the scene for a moment to draw up some tension for what was about to go down.

There are some subtle differences in the new version, which hopefully will help a bit here.  There were some good suggestions about having Ina tell a different tale to Ari, while showing what was actually taking place.  I don't think this would quite work, though.  Too much VO can be a problem, IMO.  It can take away from the power taking place onscreen, and I didn't want to go that route.  I think I've got it worked out now...we'll see what you guys think.

I purposely chose to not show any of the graphic violence taking place onscreen for several reasons.  Budget was first and foremost.  It's tough to show violent fight scenes that play out well with a no or low budget.  It also takes away from the fairytale type quality I was after.  I really like how the Siths take everyone down in the darkness of the dying fire.  IMO, it reads powerfully and would play out nicely on film, with only the sounds and some flashes.  Sometimes, the most powerful "images" are those that we see in our own minds, as opposed to actually seeing them play out onscreen.

Same deal with Alec's return...I didn't want to show him killing his wife for the same reasons as above, and think the sounds work well here, coming from Ari's bedroom POV.  But, I did want to end things with a big visual, and decided that Alickna's attack to save Ari was one that would be quite memorable and rather easy to shoot with minimal FX.

Let's address one more issue you all seemed to have, and that's with Alec's return.  Please understand that the Flashback occurred at least 8 years earlier and had nothing to do with the story taking place from Ari's bedroom.  Obviously, Alec had succumbed to the ways of the White Women on this trip.  There will be more foreshadowing in the new version through Alickna and Ari's first conversation.  But, the bottom line is that Alec is no longer Alec.  He was killed by the White Women, and he has basically "turned" and returned to what he knew out of instinct.  He is now a creature of the night and his intentions are not good.

IMO, this type of detail doesn't need to be present in a script or filmed version of a script.  Everything doesn't have to be spelled out... actually, IMO, it shouldn't be.  It leaves room for the imagination to take over and that way, people can have different ideas of the what's and why's.  And, in reality, there's really no way to show or tell what Alec is without some exposition, and I'm against that if at all possible.

Finally, the final wrap up scene with Ari in the fairy glen - obviously rushed and cut short.  The new version has a little more, but not much.  Again, IMO, these types of things don't need to be made crystal clear.  I like having things open ended at times, especially final shots, as it leaves people thinking and hopefully discussing possibilities.

Hope this makes sense and helps with some questions you guys had.  I appreciate all the input very much, negative or positive.  It all helps.

If I missed your script and you'd like some feedback, just let me know.

Thanks again to everyone involved here.  Lots and lots of fun!!!

Hey Jeff, looks like you're first.

Overall, I enjoyed the story even if I felt, as someone else noted, that the wheels came off at the end. I mean, I could make up a couple hypotheses about what happened in the final scene but I think it should be a little bit clearer. You don't have to give endless pages of exposition but a little something would help.

The dialogue flowed pretty nicely and I also agree with someone else who said that it's not exactly an appropriate bedtime story for a seven-year old. After all, she only wanted to keep hearing it because she was told it before. I don't know, it just didn't gel with me.

You worked the visuals pretty nicely and your descriptions were pretty good, so props for that.

Hey Jeff,

I've seen your comments on other scripts for awhile now and always thought they were pretty insightful, so I've been wanting to check out something from you for awhile.  Trouble is, I just knew your name as Dreamscale and that didn't bring up much in the search engine.  I was going to PM you to ask what your name was to search you, but then I saw this thread just recently and figured it out.  Nice to meet you, Mr. Bush.  I'll be checking some of your other stuff out very shortly, too.

As for 'The White Women', I thought it was a very interesting name and that's why it's one of the first ten or so that I'm going to read for the OWC.  (To be honest, I thought it was going to be a racist story and I wanted to see what kind of arguments people were going to get into when they respond to the story.)  I'm glad to see it wasn't like that in the slightest.

Anyway, about the story, yes, all the A-names were confusing, but I don't think for the reason that people have stated.  I didn't mind it at all at first (Afterall, a lot of families do that), but I think what really truly lost people is that you give Arabel three names, which I don't believe anybody mentioned yet.  You introduce her as Arabel, then you have Ina call her Ari, which makes sense and is fine, because it's short for Arabel.  No problem there.  But then the mother calls her Ane.  Well, Wee Ane, which is way too reminiscent of Anne.  (I even saw a comment earlier where they even called the little girl Anne.)  I don't know much about Scottish language, so maybe Wee Ane means Little One or something, but that's what confused me is the mother calling her daughter different names, which is why I had to go back and reread the dialogue again to figure it out.

It seems you lost a lot of people with the ending, too, and I know the reason why I liked the beginning a lot, and I liked the middle a lot, but the ending ruined it for me.  I think, for me anyway, the only thing I didn't like about the ending is that the character change in Alec is just way way too big of an arc and way too drastic of a change as not to have any explanation to it.  I know it was kind rushed for the OWC and I understand that completely, but it was explained in the beginning and the middle, Alec was a great, moral man.  (Maybe not courageous.  Afterall, he was cowering behind poor little horses) but you definately put him out there as someone who knows right from wrong and has developed a strong moral fortitude.  That's why the ending seems to just come out of left field.  I think (you said you were doing a rewrite) there definately needs to be something showing the broad strokes of his downslide to make the ending come off as a bit more believable.

But, like I said, I really liked the beginning and middle of the story a lot.  The writing was descriptive and destinctive and gave a clear view of the scene.  I won't get too much into the technical aspects of the script, (the spaces after the flashbacks and what not and what a couple others mentioned), because I think a lot of that is up to the author's own personal choices, as long as the story gets across clearly.

The dialogue was a little bit for me to get through, but that's totally on me because I'm not used to that kind of dialect.  I just had to go back and read it a couple times to make sure I knew what was being said and didn't miss anything.

So, all in all, I liked it.  Just those two main problems I noted which I think would have been fixed anyway if you had a little more time to work with the story.

Like I said, now that I know your name, I'll be checking out some of your other stuff shortly.

Have a good one.

- Mark

Hey Mark, nice to meet you, too.  I've seen you around the boards as well, and am very appreciative that you read and provided great feedback for this OWC script.

I think alot of answers can be found in my 2 big explantion posts just above yours.  But I can go beyond that here and respond to your concerns and issues.

I was a bit worried that peeps would have trouble with the "A" names, but I really liked both Arabel and Alickna, and the meaning of Alickna just fit in perfectly.  As for the nicknames...well...it's something I seem to always like to do, as for me, it makes the dialogue and relationships more realistic.

"Wie Ane" does indeed mean "Little One". I figured peeps would either figure it out, already know, or Google it.

I apologize if it slowed the read down, but hopefully it added to the authenticity.

As for what happened to Alec, as I said above, Alec is no longer Alec.  It's as simple as that.  I may add a little description to make it more apparent but I figured the gaping hole in his neck, and the fact that he's butt-ass naked, covered in blood would give it away.  One of the main additions will be an additional line or three of dialogue between Arabel and Alickna in the very opening, which will set up Alec's return much better.

I like to leave things to the imagination alot and I just don't see a way that would work and stay true to what this is supposed to be, to explain exactly what happened on this trip, but obviously, our boy Alec fucked up and succumbed to the White Women.

Out of curiosity, did you like Alickna's attack on Alec to save Arabel?  I'm surprised more comments weren't provided about it, as for me, it's a highlight, and something I don't think I've ever seen.

Thanks again!  Let me know if you have anything that needs a read and feedback.

Hey Jeff, good to see you again...  Haven't been around as much as I thought I'd be since the October OWC.

Everything has basically been covered or explained in previous posts, but I have a few bits to add/ask.

Alec's return...

The reason people need more set up for this is because him "changing" doesn't make sense given what you've told us of the sith.  In the flashback, they kill all the men, plain and simple.  There's nothing about them being transformed, so the audience has no reason to suspect that's what happened to Alec.  They're just going to think, as the readers here seem to, that it's a senseless act of violence tacked on to rush the ending.

A way to go about this might be to slip in another flashback of "the morning after".  Alec, in a foggy morning haze, after the vicious sith attack, quietly gathers up the horses, seems fearful of his fallen commrades' bodies, anticipating that they might "return" as he does later on...  Still avoid exposition or explanation but you'd at least hint at the possibility.

Alickna's attack on Alec...

It makes sense in that it's probably what would most likely happen if a fairy were really protecting this little girl.  But I don't like it.  It's too abrupt.  You never get to see the little girl's horror when she sees what her father has become, what he's done to her mother, you never get to see the dread on Arabel's face.  I know you were probably trying to avoid having a "butt-ass naked" man chase a little girl around a house, as well as avoid a cliche chase scene, but it just felt like it needed something.  It felt anti-climactic and rushed.  The fact that he barely gets inside the door before he's instantly dropped by this fairy makes him seem like he was barely dangerous to begin with.  I feel like the mother had to be a total idiot to let herself get killed by this guy.

Perhaps Arabel comes out of her room, sees the aftermath her mother's killing, screams or cries or whatever, Alec hears her, she runs back to her room, slams the door, Alec rushes upstairs to finish the job...  He kicks in the door, Alickna takes him down, we see that the little girl is already out the window headed down the fire escape.  Maybe it needs something like that...  It's a little more cinematic, adds tension, you see emotion from Arabel, you still get the same killshot you liked so much, you eliminate the redundancy of a second body falling onto the fire (or you can even keep that if you want and have Alec go over the railing and onto the hearth after the fairy zips through him).

Other than those two areas, I thought the story was very well put together and I enjoyed it quite a bit.  Nicely done, sir.  Looking forward to the rewrite.

Decent analysis Brian.

One general point that I would make about flashbacks..they're not great for horror stories IMO.

One of the great strenghts of horror is its narrative drive and the fact they create emotion by building tension. Flashbacks seriously disrupt that.

When someone is showing something that happened in the past...there's little drama.

Flashbacks are useful for their lyrical qualities and certainly have their place in mystery stories, but I think you have to be careful to use them very sparingly in horror.  

Hey Duck, thanks for the read and feedback, and congrats on your big win!  I'll respond to your feedback ASAP, but I wanted to jump in here and respond to Rick first (as it's a much easier response  ).

Hey Rick, I hear what you're saying but I've got to disagree in general...or maybe under a blanket statement, is a better way of what I'm trying to say.

First of all, contrary to popular belief probably (due to my HEAVILY Flashbacked Unforgettable script), I'm really not too into Flashbacks, unless I feel they really add to the present timeline story, characterization, etc.  Actually, many horror movies contain Flashbacks (and that's not necesarily saying they're good movies, cause as we all know, most horror movies suck pretty much).  They seem to be there to set the stage for what's happening currently or what's to come.

In terms of this script, keep in mind that none of the characters in the Flashback were intro'd earlier, and only 1 makes it out of that Flashback to share more script time later.  I know I tend to do things a bit differently, but IMO, it's a good thing, although I understand why many are against bucking the system.

The Flashback here is almost half the script, and almost half the story.  But, the story's really not about the White Women or what takes place in the Flashback.  It's actually Arabel's story.  We start off with Arabel and Alickna and we end the same way.  Bizarre?  Maybe...

Fair enough.

I just thought I'd point it out. It was the problem with Spike and Hike as well in the OWC. It started off in the present and then went into a recollection of past events.

They tend to lack drama because we already know the outcome. In that story two people were alive to tell the story and so when we are introduced to the other characters we know what's going to happen and it takes away the dramatic tension...and dramatic tension is probably THE critical thing when it comes to horror.

This is a superior story to that, but there is a similar problem. When we settle in for the (flashback) story, we already know the Dad is going to survive...otherwise they wouldn't be telling the story.

Both the atmosphere and the quality of the writing ensure it's still an interesting tale, but I think it's something to consider...even if not for this script, but for future ones.

The other main problem with it that I think I already mentioned, was that the only person who had a character arc was the Dad, so really he's the heart of the story, if not the protagonist. It's not really about Arabel because she's completely passive all the way through. She gets told a story, then she gets saved by a supernatural entity. She doesn't do anything or grow in any way.

To make it about Arabel, what needs to happen is that she learns something from the story that she puts into practice herself...and that's why she survives.

It also feels like we should see why the Dad finally fell to the Sith. That's really the crux of the story. What changed within him that made him fall.

What made the father fall, and what the girl still had that protected her.

Eg Innocence or something. Or faith. Maybe it's faith in the fairies and that faith means they protect you. Maybe the father has argued with his daughter about her imaginary friends and that's why he falls (eg he dismisses his wife's superstition that it was the fairies that protected him and puts it down to sheer luck)...but she maintains her faith and survives.


As it is it's just not quite there as a fully formed story. It's two disconnected narratives.


EDIT: Thought of something quite good. What if the story about her Dad and the Sith was a lie. What if her mother tells her how he fought the good fight and died a good man, but we see what really happens and he fornicates with them and goes to the Dark side. Then he comes back. But having been told by her mother how the pure of heart survive, he has no power over her. It makes a nice point about the power of stories to teach and pass on morals.

Ricky Boy Master.

I think since flashback is such a huge part of this story, it's needed, but maybe it would be better if there was just one flashback. There would be: the beginning where we meet the fairy and the mother begins the tale; the flashback; then the conclusion.

I like the idea of having the mom tell a version of the story that is different than what we see. That was brought up before, but now Rick has put a new possible approach, and this would tie in nicely to Alec's actions at the end.

Hey Jeff,

Quoted from shootingduck In the flashback, they kill all the men, plain and simple.  There's nothing about them being transformed, so the audience has no reason to suspect that's what happened to Alec.

Lol.  That's what I was trying to get at, I just couldn't figure out the words to what I was trying to say.  (Sorry, I was getting rushed while I was posting.  Girlfriend all of a sudden needed to go to the store.)

In the story, it came across to me as the White Women were murdering the men only who gave into them, which brought up another question of mine I wanted to ask before, but it slipped my mind while I was rushing.

Duff and Boyd gave into the temptresses, so I understood them getting killed.  But Torcuil you said, stands his ground and unsheathes his heavy Claymore.  To me, that sounds like he wasn't giving in to the White Women, so why did they kill him?  (Unless you were making another dirty joke and by 'unsheathing his heavy sword', you meant 'taking out his big wang'.  :-)  )

And I also forgot to mention that I liked what you did with the names Duff and Boyd.  I didn't know what they meant when I was reading.  But after telling us why you named them that, I thought it was pretty clever.

Quoted from Dreamscale did you like Alickna's attack on Alec to save Arabel?

Actually, yes, I did like Alickna's attack.  It was very visual, (put a great dark image in my head) and seemed to me like a perfectly grim ending to what we knew was going to be a dark fairy tale.  I do understand what shootingduck was getting at, though, with never really showing us the horror her father had become.  But yes, it was a great visual.  I think the image of Ina roasting over the fire would terrify a young child if they saw it.  And I mean that in a good way.  A way that a scary story should.  (Although I do have to admit, when I first read it, the first image that came to my head was that she was on a spit.)

- Mark

Hey Duck, thanks gain for the read and feedback.

Alec's return – I understand what you’re saying about the men being killed by the Sith in the Flashback, and why Alec’s transformation seems confusing.  I think with a couple extra lines of dialogue between Arabel and Alickna up front, it will not only make sense, but it will also be completely foreshadowed.  I usually don’t like giving away too much info, but it appears this is necessary…and I’m game for doing it.

I don’t think I really want to prolong the Flashback and add more to it, like the morning after or anything, but it’s a solid idea for sure.

Alickna's attack on Alec – I understand why you feel this is too sudden, but again, I don’t really want to prolong this scene or really add anything to it (I may add a line or 2, but that’s it).  Keep in mind a few things which you probably didn’t quite get, based on your feedback here…this tale takes place long, long ago.  Black houses are small 1 level cottages made of dry-stone walls packed with earth and wooden rafters covered with a thatch of turf. The floor was generally flagstones or packed earth and there was a central hearth for the fire. There was no chimney for the smoke to escape though. Instead the smoke made its way through the roof, so everything you mentioned in your 2nd paragraph here doesn’t jive or fly.  Also, although I definitely understand what you’re getting at and looking for, that’s just not the direction I was aiming here.  The low budget nature of the assignment, to me, means keeping things as simple as possible, and chase/fight scenes are difficult to pull off properly onscreen, IMO.

All great ideas, though.  Glad you seemed to like it.  Rewrite should be done over the weekend.

Thanks again.

I have mixed feelings with this one, Jeff.  The storytelling was nice and tight.  Your descriptions of things were very visual.  The story, OTOH, had its problems.  You had two separate stories running here: the one with Arabel and the fairy and the one with the White Women.  I think you should've just picked one and ran with it.  The ending left me thinking 'WTF?'

I liked the dialogue; the brogue-ish mannerisms were easy enough to read and were believable.  I did think that the dialog in the pub was a little weak.  Torcuil's explanation of the White Women was a little too on-the-nose for me.  I understand that you have top explain the mythos, but I feel you could've been more subtle with it.


Phil