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SimplyScripts Screenwriting Discussion Board    Unproduced Screenplay Discussion    Short Scripts  ›  Soulshadows II: Key To My Heart Moderators: bert
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  Author    Soulshadows II: Key To My Heart  (currently 15210 views)
Dreamscale
Posted: June 8th, 2010, 11:08am Report to Moderator
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Thanks for the read, Ryan.  Glad you seemed to like it.

Good catch on the passive sentences early on.  For me, I don't know if I really have a problem with these two, as they're not the old "ing" passive, but you are correct...they're definitely passive.

As for the Logan/Tyler debate, keep in mind that in a filmed version, you wouldn't have the luxury of knowing Tyler's "real" name up front.  But then again, I didn't really try and conceal anything, as I gave the Logan thing up in my log line.  I decided early on that there wasn't any reason to conceal this, and that it was pretty obvious what was going to go down.  I hope the "way" it went down was at least a shock.

What I wanted to come as a surprise or shock was the brutality of Logan's ways, as well as Maia's character.

The 3 girls thing is so (in my mind at least) it makes sense that when Emma decided to leave with Logan, she didn't leave a friend all by herself.  There is some back story that got cut for page length reasons...the other 2 girls both have boyfriends, while Emma is new to the area and very single.

I seem to like breaking conventions, and introing Maia so late is definitely one of those examples.  Others wanted to see and know more of her as well, but I decided to not give much info about her origins, or who/what she really is.  Just for the record, she is what she says she is...a protector of sorts...a good demon, so to speak.

You are completely correct that there was a trade off between surprises/chills and gore.  I wanted to push the envelope here as far as I could and do it in ways that haven't been done before.  You may not have noticed or realized, but other than some dead bodies, there isn't any gore or graphic violence at all until the last few pages.  It comes off as very difficult to stomach, and very, very brutal, but all of that wasn't based on visuals until the end, when Maia gets down to her business.

There are numerous examples of exact passages throughout.  This was done consciously.  Some didn't like this...some did.  I understand your concern here about wanting more, or at least different info on Emma's demise, but I really didn't want to even show it, as in an earlier draft, Emma actually survived, and was rescued by Maia.  So, even though it seems quite clear that Emma got killed, she actually could have survived for awhile until Maia came along.

I was trying something old wrapped up in a new box.  Some like it, some don't.  I understand that for sure.

Thanks again, man!  Take care.  
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rc1107
Posted: April 13th, 2011, 1:15am Report to Moderator
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Hey Jeff,

I got a little confused at first.  When I came to the first page of the thread and it said 'Soul Shadows II', and saw bert's name in there too, I thought I must've clicked the wrong link for the search.  I've never read any of the Soul Shadows before and didn't know if I needed any prior knowledge from previous Soul Shadows.  I understand what's going on now, though.  Kind of like a Tales from the Crypt, thing.  Pretty cool idea, actually.

Well, you have found someone in me who loves exploitation films (for the most part.  I hate it when some stuff gets over the top and just downright comical.  I don't like that.  I like it when it's handled well and more seriously.)  And I guess I also like what people have come to refer to as torture porn.  I'm really not a sadistic person at heart, but I enjoy feeling really uncomfortable moments in stories.  Stories that make your stomach churn and grind and wish that it would just get over and done with.  If it's done right, I think those uncomfortable moments can be more horrifying than any monster one can muster.

This story definately works for me in that aspect, in that you push the visuals and descriptions past what the average audience is used to.

Also, I like the way you get there.  First, you put us smack dab in the middle of the day at a tailgate party at a crowded football game and build it up a little bit slowly.  Who in the hell is going to guess how sick this was going to get?

Yes, we knew something wasn't right with Logan right off the bat, (I mean kickoff), but it's easy to tell that it's not really important that what we think is going to happen happens, it's what you do after you get Logan alone with Emma and how far you push it that ends up being the surprising thing.  And of course that's what makes this story different and separate and stand out in other people eyes and it's what makes it appealing to me.

You've read some of my scripts so you know I won't get into any technical issues for formatting as I'm so outdated on rules it's not even funny.  (I'll be paying a visit to Barnes & Noble sometime this week for a look at some NEW screenwriting format books.)  I'll just say your story got across to me just fine and I understood everything without having to backtrack at all to understand what was going on.

(However, I did backtrack through the script to check some dates, though, because at first it seemed like Green Bay had four home games in a row (which would never happen in the NFL unless you're the Pittsburgh Steelers because they get whatever they fucking want cause they're all over Goodell's dick) but after checking the dates again, it matched up.  Two home games, two away games, then a back and forth.  You were good there.)

If I had to say one thing that irked me about the script, I'd say it have to be the dialogue, but it's because  I hate the way teenagers and twenty-something's talk, anyway.  So you nailed the way they talk perfectly, even with all the cheesy lovey-dovey talk, people do talk like that when they meet somebody they meet and have instant puppylove, but it still irked me.

There were a few humorous lines when Logan was talking to Emma after she was glued to the wall.  "Can't really reveal the secret recipe, or... well, you know... I'd have to kill you."  I laughed at that.  I thought it was funny.  "Didn't even realize it was possible at first" also made me chuckle.

And oh yeah, I forgot there was even somebody named Maia who was supposed to be in this.  I forgot about the logline.  Honestly, you could probably take her out of the logline.  Actually, now that I think about it, I think you could lose the whole logline completely.  Woohoo!  Finally something I can criticize!  That was a horrible logline.  :-)  I think I saw you say in a post on Fade to White that you hate loglines and admitted you're terrible at them.  Lol, having already read the story and giving it a quick thought, maybe just a simple little 'The Packers are playing at home again' might work.  Wouldn't reveal anything about the story and there wouldn't be such an anticipation as to what Logan is going to do, and then the shock factor would be even less expected.

Like I said, I've never read any of the Soul Shadows before, so I don't know if there's a rule that the story has to have a supernatural element to it, but I think Maia would've worked better as a real person as opposed to a demon.  Honestly, I was hoping Maia would fuck him up even before Logan had a chance to whack her in the back of the head.  You said Logan's a pretty handsome guy, so I was hoping maybe Maia would go down on him while they're still in the Range Rover (maybe even while he was on the phone with his 'dad') and then all of a sudden, she just starts gobbling his dick and tears out his pubic hair (kind of a retribution for him scalping the other girls) and she unleashes her insanity first on him.

But, it also works as it is now and there's still some interesting visuals, especially with her digging the key into his chest and grinding at his valves.

So in finishing, I thought this was really entertaining (of course I'm biased because of the whole exploitation thing).  It read very brisk and crisp, even with a slow build-up in the beginning. (Which as we talked about before, I think, you know I'm a big fan of slow builds).

Everything I've said so far is just referring strictly to the script.  I haven't listened to the recorded version of this yet, which I'll probably do when I lay down to go to sleep in a little bit.  I've never listened to one and I'm kind of curious as to what it sounds like.

Anyway, thanks for the entertaining read, Jeff.  Hope all is well with you and I'll be talking to you in a bit.

- Mark


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jwent6688
Posted: April 13th, 2011, 1:16pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from rc1107
(However, I did backtrack through the script to check some dates, though, because at first it seemed like Green Bay had four home games in a row (which would never happen in the NFL unless you're the Pittsburgh Steelers because they get whatever they fucking want cause they're all over Goodell's dick) but after checking the dates again, it matched up.  Two home games, two away games, then a back and forth.  You were good there.)
- Mark


I'm a tried and true Steelers fan who lives in Cleveland. Cleveland sucks. They should build a bull dozer big enough to ram the entire city into lake Erie. After lebron left, its over for us. Fuck him too.

Just wanted to chime in...

James



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bert
Posted: April 13th, 2011, 1:32pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from rc1107
I got a little confused at first.  When I came to the first page of the thread and it said 'Soul Shadows II', and saw bert's name in there too, I thought I must've clicked the wrong link for the search.  I've never read any of the Soul Shadows before and didn't know if I needed any prior knowledge from previous Soul Shadows.


Tanis is the narrator for the series, and she opens and closes each episode based on the "item" that episode centers around.  In this case it was a key.

Each episode centers around one such item, and Tanis is a collector of sorts.

The episodes themselves are solely the work of each individual author.  I did not do any revisions or editing to those. And the Tanis segments, for better or worse, were mine alone.

Just to clarify, for those unfamiliar with the history of this series.


Hey, it's my tiny, little IMDb!
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Dreamscale
Posted: April 13th, 2011, 4:40pm Report to Moderator
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Hey mark, thanks so much for digging this up.  This has always been a favorite of mine.  As I mentioned in a PM, it's a polarizing script for sure.  Those that dislike the "torture porn" genre seem to hate it, but those that like it or can at least handle it, tend to like it.

I'm like you, I actually love the genre, although the vast majority of entries in the genre are bad...really bad.  Hostel and Hostel 2 are 2 of my favorite movies.  Both incredibly well done, and the original, obviously a classic, in that it inspired an entirely new genre, although, in reality, I think it actually started in the 70's...either way, it accounted for 100's of copies and retreads in the years hat followed it.

I'm really glad you liked it.  I spent months planning this thing out, down to the exact details of how it would play out.  The actual writing only spanned a few days, but, man, I'll tell you I spent so many days in the gym, creating scenes and visuals in my head.  Maia is actually inspired by a hot as shit chick from my gym.  She had this incredibly exotic, sexy look to her, and she looked like she could kick 90% of the buff dude's asses at the gym.  She tended to stick to herself and rarely even chatted with anyone...and when she did, I could see how she quickly disassociated herself from them.

My parents live in Door County, WI, and Logan's house is inspired by theirs, all the way to the walking sticks in a metal container, next to the font door.

Although i am pretty familiar with Green bay and Lambeau Field, I did alot of research to get the details down right.

Logan's "imprisonment" methods and the "scalping" concept were the final pieces I was missing, and once they came to me, everything went down on paper.

I wanted to leave Maia's true nature ambiguous, but hopefully you got what it was she is, and does.  Many complained that she should have been human, but I just didn't see how that could work in a reality kind of way.  I like keeping ti real, within the world I create, and I really like how she came off.

Thanks again, bro!  take care.
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wonkavite
Posted: April 16th, 2011, 7:07pm Report to Moderator
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Hey DS -

Read Key to My Heart.  Now, I'm no fan of torture porn.  But it's clean writing, very visual.  Interesting scalping gimmick - not something I've seen before.

Two main problems with the script.  One: the idea of the original girl falling for Logan so damned fast.  Maybe I run in more cynical circles, but *none* of my friends would get that gooey, that easily.

Then there's Maia's special powers.  There's no set up for it in the script, which really throws the ending out of wack. (Originally, I thought that this might be Part II of something else, with Maia as a continuing character that had been explained more fully elsewhere.  Then I realized that the "II" was part of a Tales of the Crypt type anthology, and that the story itself was stand alone.)

It think that KTMH could work for what it is - just not with such an out-of-left-field twist.  

My opinion: add in some explanation of her supernatural existence earlier on.  Or change her to a human out for revenge...with less supernatural powers.

Course, it's not as good as VaProd's work.  But then, what is?
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Dreamscale
Posted: April 17th, 2011, 11:37am Report to Moderator
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Hey Janet, thanks for much for the read and comments.  I really appreciate it.  Also appreciate the compliments.

Your 2 main concerns seem to be the same 2 concerns everyone has, and for the life of me, I just don't get it...not that I'm arguing or anything like that, cause I'm really not.

I've responded over and over with my feelings on these 2 issues, but I'll do it 1 more time, since this is a long and old thread.

You'd be amazed how many times I've been involved in a situation where a girl falls for a guy immediately and opens herself up to potential problems by doing so.  Maybe it's harder to "see" in a written piece, compared to a filmed version, or real life, but given the right circumstances, and of course, the right people, it happens all the time, and many of those times involve completely (intentional) cheesiness.

Maybe I just run with a different circle?  

Your first point is duly noted though.

OK, so then we have Maia's "special powers", and again, so many people brought up similar comments.  Maia's special powers stem from her being who/what she is.  She's not even human, obviously.

For me personally, I don't like being told things up front because it spoils the surprise and the shock.  Everyone else seems to need to know through foreshadowing, which usually gives the entire thing away long before it should.

Or maybe I'm just the "deus ex machina" King.     I don't know.  People have been saying I use this "technique" often, but I always disagree.  I definitely understand what it is and how and why it can come off as ridiculous, but I don't see it in terms of my writing.

In terms of set up, there are subtle little hints that Maia is not like the other girls, but I definitely wanted the scene in the basement to come as a complete surprise.  This Soul Shadows series involves the supernatural in every script, so it's kind of an assumed thing, really (IMO), but then again, as I said, most readers mentioned something similar.

Again, I appreciate your time as I know this is a long "short".  Thanks again, Janet.
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leitskev
Posted: April 17th, 2011, 2:18pm Report to Moderator
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I read this last week when it appeared on the portal, and wrestled with whether or not to comment. If my review was not going to be constructive I thought I might be better off refraining.

Ok, first the good. It's well written, and one can fly through the pages. You know right away where the threat is, and that's ok, because it creates the desired tension. Logan's the killer, and we know that pretty much from the outset. So that creates the danger.

And I didn't have a problem with Emma going with him. I've seen it happen all the time in real life. Young girls take tremendous chances, and this guy is good looking and rich.  

I have two essential problems here, one minor, one not so, and both addressed by Jeff. First, there is no depth to Logan's character. Why does he kill? Is it misogyny? There isn't even a clue. Why does he keep the corpses around in the basement? Usually serial killers do something with the evidence, though they may save trophies. Rotting, smelly bodies in the basement could be a problem. I'm not trying to nitpick, and I know it's just a short, but there's quite a bit of conversation in the basement between Emma and Logan, seems there could be some clue to what drives him.

The second problem is the one most talked about. Maia. Who and what is she? I know you want to surprise the audience. Though to be honest, as with Logan, we suspect something different will happen with Maia, and as you say, this is a supernatural series, so we know something's coming. And I am ok with having a certain level of mystery, of leaving things open to speculation or for the reader/viewer to figure out. But IMO there has to be something. We can't just have this character drop in out of nowhere with absolutely no explanation as to what she is. Just too many questions left unanswered.

Actually, to be honest it bothers me a little that you didn't have any of these questions while writing it.  Maybe there was a time constraint. It just seems you could have either borrowed from some myth or legend, or created your own. It doesn't have to be some elaborate exposition of the creature, just a hint, a taste. All we have now is some kind of creature that was smart enough to figure out Logan was killing innocent girls, but dumb enough to get hit on the head and placed on the wall so that she was forced to scalp herself to kill him.

These problems did not exist in Unforgettable. Everything was explained by the end, and the motivations of the characters were clear and well developed. Some people had a little problem with the likability of the characters, but there was no problem with their depth. But we did see a similar problem with unanswered questions in White Women. So maybe the issue here is just time and space. Very understandable if so. If I could float a suggestion, it would be just to try to ask those questions, come up with some answers, and provide a few clues. Everything doesn't have to be neatly tied up, but I think the payoff for just a little bit more work will be large, and your audience will be freer to enjoy your effective writing and vivid images.


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Dreamscale
Posted: April 17th, 2011, 7:01pm Report to Moderator
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Kevin, thanks for another read, bro.  Totally appreciate the feedback.  IMO, you should never worry about negative feedback, and if you have something to say, by all means, say it.

Thank you for the compliments on the writing...you know I try.

Being a bartender, I'm glad you understand how things of this nature can take place and often do, in terms of chicks and guys hooking up quickly.

OK, your 2 issues...again, 2 that come up alot, especially the latter.

First of all, Logan - why does he do what he does and why don't I let you in on the details?

Well, why does anyone do what they do?  Why does Hannibal kill and eat people?  Why does Leatherface do what he does?  Why does Mick Taylor kill innocent kids in Wolf Creek?

Sure, there are answers and sometimes, a couple movies later, we even find out, but IMO, it doesn't matter, unless the script/movie takes on the angle of why.  This one doesn't, and doesn't want to.  It had nothing to do with time or page restrictions.  It's purely the way I wanted to write it and what I wanted to show and not show.  He's a crazy, sick fuck and he does say that.  For me, that's all I personally need to know.  The script and story has absolutely nothing to do with the why's of how he came to be like he is.  He's a killer, he killed his parents to get their money, now he's killing and sexually molesting innocent girls.  This is who he is and this is how he rolls.

Sorry this was a problem for you, but again, you are not alone, my friend.

OK, Maia again.  I've responded numerous times to this, so i won't say the same things again, but I will address your points.  In writing this, just like with Logan, the why's and other such questions weren't what I was interested in.  Initially, Maia was going to be human and have a reason for what she does, but being human and doing what I wanted her to do, didn't go hand in hand, thus, this Maia was born.

The idea is that Maia is a demon of sorts.  Mostly a good one, in that she takes out the scum of the earth that prey on innocent girls...and get away with it.  She may be superhuman, but that doesn't mean that she's perfect or can save everyone.  In fact, she can't and doesn't even get involved until things go "too far".

She was never in any danger with Logan.  She let him think he had another victim, only to fuck with him and give him more than a taste of his own medicine.  As she tells him, she knew about who he was and what he was doing all along, and her being "picked up" by him was all in the plan.

Again, none of this was because of time constraints or page constraints.  All personal and intentional decisions.

Unforgettable and Fade are much different animals and are intended to be.  They're also both features, so they have the room to be able to completely set everything up and tie it all together in a neat little package.  There's so much more going on in those scripts, where as this one, in particular, has its sights set on 1 thing and 1 thing only...graphic violence that is as cringe inducing as possible, wrapped up in a package that hopefully plays out differently than you've seen or read.  I wanted this to be controversial. I wanted it to be unpleasant.  I wanted to affect people in a way they haven't been before.

I often say things like, "Damn, I wish this movie would have...", and it seems that I'm no different, cause that's what's happening here.  And that's completely cool with me.  You and others like you were looking and hoping for something different than I intended on writing.

Thank you again, Kevin.  Your feedback means alot and I appreciate it.

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leitskev
Posted: April 17th, 2011, 7:32pm Report to Moderator
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Yeah, the first issue, Logan's character, I understand your explanation, and that's why I said this was a minor issue. I do agree that in this type of horror there often is no real explanation. And in fact, in real life, how often is there an explanation for a serial killer? They do what they do. So this was a minor issue for me. I only brought it up because I think if you can give some depth to his character, by explaining some of how he ticks, it makes the script/film so much better. And because the scene in the cellar, and in fact most of the scenes, are heavy in dialogue, there is a great opportunity to drop some clues to his character. So it's less the case of the script being lacking as a case of missed opportunity.

Regarding the second point, it seems you have the beginning of an explanation in these posts, so that could easily have been developed and put in the script. As I said, this story is not afraid of dialogue, so Maia could give an idea to her nature. She did slightly by saying she was late, or something like that I think. So what I'm saying is literally just a few words that hint of her demonic nature. Maybe she refers to another killer she has trapped in the past, something simple.

In fact, my entire criticism would be dealt with by a few dialogue lines by Maia, and perhaps even just one dialogue exchange earlier with Logan. So 5 to 10 dialogue lines tops, and problem solved,

My hesitation to post was more out of the notion that a review should be constructive. Even criticism is constructive if done right. Hopefully this helped some. I think from the feedback here and on White people really want story holes filled or explained, and it won't take much to fill those holes either.
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Dreamscale
Posted: April 17th, 2011, 8:13pm Report to Moderator
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I hear ya, Kev...I do.  IMO, any feedback, positive or negative is very helpful  I love it all.

You're right, peeps on SS seem to like having their I's dotted and their T's crossed, but I think you know I don't play that way in terms of how's and why's.  For me, the best type of movies are the ones that leave things open for interpretation.  I like ambiguity...it gives you something to think about, something to talk about.

Guess that's why I'm usually standing on my own little island or mountain top.  

That's OK with me, though, cause I kinda like it here...

Thanks again!

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Dreamscale  -  April 17th, 2011, 8:46pm
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leitskev
Posted: April 17th, 2011, 8:33pm Report to Moderator
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While I watch the Celts, I'll add this: I like ambiguity too, or more accurately, I am ok with leaving things open to interpretation, to imagination. So I was not looking, in a story like this, for everything to be neatly explained. Just some clue. I think at the very least I want the writer to have all the explanation, even if he leaves it for us to figure it out. My sense was you didn't know much about Maia either. Does that make sense?
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Dreamscale
Posted: April 17th, 2011, 8:50pm Report to Moderator
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It does make sense, but I did and do know all about lovely Maia.  I really did when I wrote this.  When time's on my side, I'd never write something without knowing the details myself.  I'm just not like that...can't do it actually.  This script took a long time in terms of coming up with all the details...in my head at least.

I'm sorry ti doesn't appear that way.  It actually bums me out,  I'm always fine if someone doesn't get something, but when they literally think I didn't get it either, it's a problem in that something that i thought was apparent and clear, wasn't and isn't.

Damn those Celtics!!!!!!!  
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wonkavite
Posted: April 18th, 2011, 8:03am Report to Moderator
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Hey Jeff -

Not to gang up on Maia (especially when I've got a character similarly named in a different story.)  

But for me, the problem is similiar to when - at the end of a movie - everyone's being sucked into a vortex, and The Hero pulls out the special thinga-ma-gig that just HAPPENS to be a vortex killer.  And it's never even been mentioned throughout the entire film.  Just happens to have it in his pocket.  

It just feels...well, wrong.  And I feel tragically cheated.

Not gonna harp on it - and I'll emphasize that I enjoyed the clean flow of the writing itself - but I would've felt much more satisfied with the script if there had been some unifying theme that incorporated Maia's mythology from the very beginning!

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leitskev
Posted: April 18th, 2011, 11:01am Report to Moderator
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I think Maia could fix this in the final scene herself. For example, she tells Logan something like this: "During the Depression, this guy you used to kill woman by drowning them in his tub. Then one day I took my turn in his tub and sent him to a watery hell."

"And then there was that sick bastard in King Louis's court who used to skin his victims alive. His skin peeled like a banana while he begged for his life."

Just an idea. We would learn that she's a vindictive demon that has been around a long time.

And where, Janet, can I get a vortex killer? Home Depot?
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