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SimplyScripts Screenwriting Discussion Board    Unproduced Screenplay Discussion    Short Scripts  ›  Evicted - Filmed! Moderators: bert
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  Author    Evicted - Filmed!  (currently 8145 views)
Forgive
Posted: July 18th, 2015, 3:10pm Report to Moderator
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Let The Sky Fall

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My pleasure Dustin. Congrats on getting some interest on it.
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J.S.
Posted: July 18th, 2015, 3:37pm Report to Moderator
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Dustin I'm finding this to be one of your lesser efforts.

I had problems visualizing the beginning to the point I became frustrated to push on. So many clarity issues. And nothing really original here.

I'm not British so I had to look up squat in an effort to better understand what I'm suppose to be imagining. Slang in a slugline? That's not reader-friendly. Even so, from the definitions I'm reading (a residence where a person lives unlawfully: without paying and without obtaining permission) this is still extremely vague. Although I understand your intentions here were detail, I don't even know what room they're in. Is it furnished? Are they sitting on the ground, sitting in chairs, stools, boxes, or standing? All terribly unclear I'm afraid. The characters just pop into existence in this squat and where exactly they are situated in it, I haven't the faintest idea.

Then Gianni appears and you describe him with such detail as if you are the costume designer for the film. Why not just call him dapper? Do the listed articles of clothing play an important role in the story?

So as I read your dialogue questions begin to pop into my mind. Why is this dapper man offering these lowlifes work? Are you sure the genre of this is not mystery?

"Gavin sits back" - Gavin was sitting? Relaxes into the chair? The sofa? No clue.

"Unmindful of the dry cleaning bill, Gianni takes a seat."

Where? I'm surprised your wrote this Dustin. Usually you don't make mistakes like this.

The dialogue is pretty rubbish. Why should I care if some guy who likes designer clothing creeps up on two druggies in a "squat" and says he has work. This is unintentionally funny.

I know you've done better than this.

-J.S.
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DustinBowcot
Posted: July 18th, 2015, 3:38pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from Forgive
My pleasure Dustin.


So you're not prepared to explain your comments? Why would Gianni act pissed off when his aim is to employ and therefore lure them to their doom? Wouldn't being pissed off be a little counter productive to his aims? Do you think that he should have taken part in the anal sex? Would that have satisfied you more?


Quoted from Sicoll
Congrats on getting some interest on it.


Thanks.

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DustinBowcot
Posted: July 18th, 2015, 4:15pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from J.S.
Dustin I'm finding this to be one of your lesser efforts.


I'm pretty sure you say that with every script I write.



Quoted from J.S.
I had problems visualizing the beginning to the point I became frustrated to push on.


It's called a lack of imagination, James.


Quoted from J.S.
So many clarity issues.


Lots of people have read this now and you're the only one to point that out.


Quoted from J.S.
And nothing really original here.


As opposed to your own scripts, of course.


Quoted from J.S.
I'm not British so I had to look up squat in an effort to better understand what I'm suppose to be imagining.


Diddums. You might need to look that up too, come to think of it. So, diddums again.


Quoted from Stampp
Slang in a slugline?


No. There isn't any slang in the slug line.

http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/squat

That's a link to the definition in the dictionary. As you can see it is a formal definition. The fact that you don't know it speaks of your ignorance that I am not obliged to address or, indeed, attempt to pre-empt.


Quoted from J.S.
That's not reader-friendly.


You mean it's not James Stampp friendly.


Quoted from J.S.
Even so, from the definitions I'm reading (a residence where a person lives unlawfully: without paying and without obtaining permission) this is still extremely vague.


Seems simple enough to me. I'm sorry James, but you can't have your hand held forever. If you don't get it with that simple enough explanation then there really isn't any hope for you.


Quoted from J.S.
Although I understand your intentions here were detail, I don't even know what room they're in.


The room with a window in it... but they can't see out because it is boarded up.


Quoted from J.S.
Is it furnished?


Yeah, it's kitted out with designer furniture.


Quoted from Stampp
Are they sitting on the ground, sitting in chairs, stools, boxes, or standing? All terribly unclear I'm afraid.


It doesn't actually matter.


Quoted from J.S.
The characters just pop into existence in this squat...


No they don't just pop into existence. That's not in the script at all. What you mean is that the story starts with them in the squat.


Quoted from J.S.
and where exactly they are situated in it, I haven't the faintest idea.


You've said that already. It's your lack of imagination at fault here... which is also why your own writing suffers so much.


Quoted from J.S.
Then Gianni appears and you describe him with such detail as if you are the costume designer for the film. Why not just call him dapper? Do the listed articles of clothing play an important role in the story?


It adds character. You wouldn't understand this though James, because your own work is so dire.


Quoted from J.S.
So as I read your dialogue questions begin to pop into my mind.


Wow... questions plural, eh. I bet you're pleased with yourself.



Quoted from J.S.
Why is this dapper man offering these lowlifes work?


That's a normal question, well done. I imagine most would think that exact same thing. What's your point?


Quoted from J.S.
Are you sure the genre of this is not mystery?


Ah, I see. Well, James... I know you're not aware of this, because you write like a seven-year-old, but in quite a lot of stories one often has to wait until the end to tie everything in. It doesn't make the genre mystery. Although it's nice to have that element in any story. That'l be over your head. It's just there for any six-year-old kids that happen to be browsing.


Quoted from J.S.
"Gavin sits back" - Gavin was sitting? Relaxes into the chair? The sofa? No clue.


It's a squat... and there isn't any description of furniture.


Quoted from J.S.
"Unmindful of the dry cleaning bill, Gianni takes a seat."

Where? I'm surprised your wrote this Dustin. Usually you don't make mistakes like this.


Ah, I see what you did there. Here's the whole section in context:

Code

Gianni
(points at a clean spot on the floor)
Mind if I?

Steve nods.

Unmindful of the dry cleaning bill, Gianni takes a seat.



There, now within context it's quite clear where he sits. I would suggest that you did it deliberately but you're not that bright.



Quoted from J.S.
The dialogue is pretty rubbish. Why should I care if some guy who likes designer clothing creeps up on two druggies in a "squat" and says he has work. This is unintentionally funny.


Well, you're wrong again, James. It is intentionally funny in parts... and, get this, it's not a comedy.


Quoted from Stampp
I know you've done better than this.

-J.S.


Really? This is actually one of my most successful shorts.


Well thanks for sharing your ignorant opinion, James. Let me know next time you post a story and I will take great pleasure in taking it apart line by line.
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J.S.
Posted: July 18th, 2015, 5:22pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from DustinBowcot

That's a link to the definition in the dictionary. As you can see it is a formal definition. The fact that you don't know it speaks of your ignorance that I am not obliged to address or, indeed, attempt to pre-empt.


It isn't slang, true. But it is chiefly British and I was unaware of its meaning, as I said. If your goal for this is to appeal chiefly to a British audience/producer, fine. No contest. But I don't think many other English speakers--this includes American producers btw --would know what this means. Not providing clarification for non-British English speakers is why I find it isn't reader-friendly.


Quoted from DustinBowcot

The room with a window in it... but they can't see out because it is boarded up.


Maybe you should put that in the script then


Quoted from DustinBowcot

No they don't just pop into existence. That's not in the script at all. What you mean is that the story starts with them in the squat.


From the link you provided:
"A building occupied by people living in it without the legal right to do so"

Nothing about a room with a window in it that's boarded up in this definition. For all I know they could be in the bathroom. On the stairs. I don't know, maybe there is more to the definition amongst British speakers than the dictionary is letting on. But working from that definition, I'm unable to visualize their location. All I know is that they're inside the building.


Quoted from DustinBowcot

That's a normal question, well done. I imagine most would think that exact same thing. What's your point?


I wasn't asking out of curiosity. I was asking it out of astonishment of the absurdity of the situation you've presented.


Quoted from DustinBowcot

Ah, I see. Well, James... I know you're not aware of this, because you write like a seven-year-old, but in quite a lot of stories one often has to wait until the end to tie everything in.


This is called a mystery. Consult your compatriot Mr. Hitchcock


Quoted from DustinBowcot

There, now within context it's quite clear where he sits. I would suggest that you did it deliberately but you're not that bright.


I did miss this, true. As I was typing up my response I was getting confused between your characters Gavin and Gianni which actually speaks to another point of criticism I should have mentioned. At first I thought it was Gavin who entered the room and not Gianni. Probably should give one of them a different name to avoid confusion. That way when the audience is discussing your short, and one guy says to a gal, "I liked that Gavin character" she responds, "Which one was that?"

You're welcome.

-J.S.
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DustinBowcot
Posted: July 18th, 2015, 5:49pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from J.S.


It isn't slang, true. But it is chiefly British and I was unaware of its meaning, as I said. If your goal for this is to appeal chiefly to a British audience/producer, fine. No contest. But I don't think many other English speakers--this includes American producers btw --would know what this means. Not providing clarification for non-British English speakers is why I find it isn't reader-friendly.


OK, James. Here's a link from Wiki, which seems to believe that squatting is a word known to most Americans:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Squatting_in_the_United_States



Quoted from wiki
The United States Homestead Acts legally recognized the concept of the homestead principle and distinguished it from squatting, since it gave homesteaders permission to occupy unclaimed lands. Additionally, US states that have a shortage of housing tend to tolerate squatters in property awaiting redevelopment until the developer is ready to begin work. However, at that point, the laws tend to be enforced.[citation needed] The Homestead Act of 1862 was signed by Abraham Lincoln on May 20 and sought to reallocate unsettled land in the West. The law applied to U.S. citizens and prospective citizens that had never borne arms against the U.S. government. It required a five-year commitment, during which time the land owner had to build a twelve-by-fourteen foot dwelling, develop the 160-acre (0.65 km2) plot of land allocated, and generally better the condition of the unsettled property. After five years of positively contributing to the homestead, the applicant could file for the deed to the property, which entailed sending paperwork to the General Land Office in Washington, D.C., and from there, "valid claims were granted patent free and clear".[7] Moreover, there were loopholes to this law, including provisions made for those serving in the U.S. military. After the Civil War, Union veterans could deduct time served in the army from the five-year homesteader requirement.

In common law, through the legally recognized concept of adverse possession, a squatter can become a bona fide owner of property without compensation to the owner. Adverse possession is the process by which one acquires the title to a piece of land by occupying it for the number of years necessary, dictated differently in practice by each state's statute of limitation for an eviction action. A necessary component of this transfer of ownership requires that the landowner is aware (or should be aware) of the land occupation[citation needed] and does nothing to put an end to it. If the land use by the new occupant goes unchecked for the said number of years, the new occupant can claim legal rights to the title of the land. The occupant must show that the "possession is actual, open, notorious, exclusive, hostile, under cover of claim or right, and continuous and uninterrupted for the statutory period."[8] As Erin Wiegand notes, the most difficult part of claiming adverse possession on the part of squatters is the continuous part. Squatting is a very transient lifestyle and many are evicted on a frequent basis.[9] In an article regarding recent foreclosures in the United States, a current squatter in Miami stated of her housing, "It's a beautiful castle and it's temporary for me, if I can be here twenty-four hours, I'm thankful."[10] Thus, while adverse possession allows for the legality of a squatter's situation, it is not common that a person can claim continuous possession of the land long enough to claim title by adverse possession.



Quoted from J.S.
Maybe you should put that in the script then


I was being sarcastic as it really doesn't matter what room they are in. I believe the following sets the scene adequately:

Code

Candlelight flickers across walls.

Rats scurry through rubbish.



The rest is up to the reader's imagination.


Quoted from J.S.

From the link you provided:
"A building occupied by people living in it without the legal right to do so"

Nothing about a room with a window in it that's boarded up in this definition. For all I know they could be in the bathroom. On the stairs. I don't know, maybe there is more to the definition amongst British speakers than the dictionary is letting on. But working from that definition, I'm unable to visualize their location. All I know is that they're inside the building.


If you had to guess which room two tramps would be sitting in amidst piles of rubbish, which one would you choose?


Quoted from J.S.
Why is this dapper man offering these lowlifes work?

I wasn't asking out of curiosity. I was asking it out of astonishment of the absurdity of the situation you've presented.


Ah, it was an incredulous statement. What on earth is this dapper gentleman doing offering these lowlifes work? How absurd. Gotcha, thanks.




Quoted from J.S.
This is called a mystery. Consult your compatriot Mr. Hitchcock


No, it's a mystery element within a thriller structure. Just like there is comedy within the script, they are merely comedic elements and don't make the whole story a comedy. Gianni very quickly reveals why he wants them to work with him, he just takes his time explaining it. You must prefer to throw the whole story into one huge lump of dialogue, but I like to spread it out. It doesn't make it a mystery. If you read the whole thing, you'd know that. But you haven't and yet still you argue.



Quoted from J.S.
I did miss this, true. As I was typing up my response I was getting confused between your characters Gavin and Gianni which actually speaks to another point of criticism I should have mentioned. At first I thought it was Gavin who entered the room and not Gianni. Probably should give one of them a different name to avoid confusion. That way when the audience is discussing your short, and one guy says to a gal, "I liked that Gavin character" she responds, "Which one was that?"


I doubt that that would happen... and here's why... no names are mentioned at all during dialogue. The names are only there for the reader. The fact that you got confused isn't really a surprise. It's like when a small child wets themselves. It's normal. It's a little kid, what do you expect?
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IamGlenn
Posted: July 18th, 2015, 6:00pm Report to Moderator
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Just to weigh in on the squatters debate.

I'm Irish, squatters is a very well known term here. Also, lived in Australia for two years and seemed to be a known term there too. Actually, a hostel I stayed in used to be a prison and before being turned into a hostel, was taken up by squatters. There were many news articles about it with the term squatters used in all of them. So yeah, I always took it as being a pretty universal term.

Just my two cents


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J.S.
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Quoted from DustinBowcot

Here's a link from Wiki, which seems to believe that squatting is a word known to most Americans:


This doesn't prove it's known to most Americans. A poll would prove it's known to most Americans. Perhaps it is, though, you're right. I'm in the minority if that's the case. Either way, I learned something today


Quoted from DustinBowcot

If you had to guess which room two tramps would be sitting in amidst piles of rubbish, which one would you choose?


I'm baffled. Why didn't you just say they were tramps in the first place? What's wrong with writing two tramps, in some room inside an abandoned building? I would know what you're talking about instantly. This is just like what Orson Welles said about the writers during the latter part of his life. They like to use big words in order to impress. You're writing for the screen Dustin. You're not Bill Shakespeare.


Quoted from DustinBowcot

Ah, it was an incredulous statement.


Dumbstruck. I was dumbstruck.


Quoted from DustinBowcot

No, it's a mystery element within a thriller structure.


When you begin your exposition with a mystery, I lose faith in your exposition. You have a mysterious, well dressed, shady figure talking to two tramps about a job. All this is a mystery to the tramps and the audience. Sure, it isn't illegal to do this. Rather than giving the audience information, as a writer normally does during exposition of a story, you resort to mystification. I have no interest in this. If I were to see this happening during broad daylight I wouldn't care the slightest. I would go on my merry way. I believe I'm in the majority when I say that. Now if I saw the Prince of Zamunda talking to two tramps, that would probably grab my attention. If I saw an officer playing guitar in front of two tramps, that would grab my attention. If I saw a belly dancer throwing up in front of two tramps, that would grab my attention. What you wrote? Next channel.


Quoted from DustinBowcot

I doubt that that would happen... and here's why... no names are mentioned at all during dialogue. The names are only there for the reader. The fact that you got confused isn't really a surprise. It's like when a small child wets themselves. It's normal. It's a little kid, what do you expect?


That's even worse Dustin! Why did you give them names in the first place?? Skinny tramp and Fat tramp. Done.

You're welcome.

-J.S.
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DustinBowcot
Posted: July 19th, 2015, 2:37am Report to Moderator
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Quoted from J.S.


This doesn't prove it's known to most Americans. A poll would prove it's known to most Americans. Perhaps it is, though, you're right. I'm in the minority if that's the case. Either way, I learned something today


Point to where I said it proved anything. But here's another link and some more information that intimates the exact same thing.


Quoted from wiki
The Preemption Act of 1841, also known as the Distributive Preemption Act (27 Cong., Ch. 16; 5 Stat. 453), was a federal law approved on September 4, 1841 during the early presidency of John Tyler. It was designed to "appropriate the proceeds of the sales of public lands... and to grant 'pre-emption rights' to individuals" who were already living on federal lands (commonly referred to as "squatters").


Commonly referred to as squatters. That's in 1841.

Here's more:


Quoted from Law Street Media
Squatting in the United States can be traced all the way back to the Pilgrims who arrived here on the Mayflower. According to a Santa Clara Law report by Kenneth A. Manaster, it has primarily been seen as a rural issue, with the majority of cases involving  people claiming land that’s not theirs on the western frontier. Squatters often took possession of land to which they had no title. Through a process of preemption, they were given the opportunity to purchase that land at a low price before it was put up for auction and sold.

Today squatting is seen primarily as a civil issue rather than a criminal one in many countries. In Europe, anyone with unopposed occupation of a piece of land for more than 12 years can gain a title to it. In order to get rid of squatters, owners must take them to court in lengthy and costly legal battles to prove that they are unlawfully occupying their property.

WHAT ARE SQUATTERS RIGHTS?

For starters, the term “squatters rights” has no precise or fixed legal meaning, varying contextually speaking based on jurisdiction. In the United States it is most commonly associated with being a specific form of adverse possession, which is an ancient legal doctrine that has been called the “law of the landless.” Adverse possession is defined as:

A method of gaining legal title to real property by the actual, open, hostile, and continuous possession of it to the exclusion of its true owner for the period prescribed by state law. Personal property may also be acquired by adverse possession.


http://lawstreetmedia.com/issues/law-and-politics/squatters-rights/



Quoted from Stampp

I'm baffled. Why didn't you just say they were tramps in the first place? What's wrong with writing two tramps, in some room inside an abandoned building? I would know what you're talking about instantly. This is just like what Orson Welles said about the writers during the latter part of his life. They like to use big words in order to impress. You're writing for the screen Dustin. You're not Bill Shakespeare.


Oh this is just brilliant. You believe squat is a big word. Indeed a larger word than Abandoned Building. In my country we can just say 'squat'... but you'd prefer abandoned building because it is a smaller word. People that live in filthy, rat-ridden squats and abuse drugs are always tramps. What else could they be?




Quoted from Stampp
Dumbstruck. I was dumbstruck.


I'm guessing this happens a lot with you, James. Excellent choice of words.



Quoted from Stampp
When you begin your exposition with a mystery, I lose faith in your exposition. You have a mysterious, well dressed, shady figure talking to two tramps about a job. All this is a mystery to the tramps and the audience.


Then by this logic all stories are mysteries as we cannot know what is going to happen until it happens. We might feel that we can guess, but it is still a mystery until it actually happens.



Quoted from Stampp
Sure, it isn't illegal to do this. Rather than giving the audience information, as a writer normally does during exposition of a story, you resort to mystification.


Then it isn't exposition.



Quoted from Stampp
I have no interest in this. If I were to see this happening during broad daylight I wouldn't care the slightest.


wtf are you talking about now?


Quoted from Stampp
I would go on my merry way. I believe I'm in the majority when I say that. Now if I saw the Prince of Zamunda talking to two tramps, that would probably grab my attention.


Ah, I get it. How would you know it was the Prince of Zamunda? You expect a prince to walk around with a crown on their head?



Quoted from Stampp
If I saw an officer playing guitar in front of two tramps, that would grab my attention.


You sure... wouldn't there be a bit of mystery there though? Wouldn't you first have to figure out why the officer was doing that? Or is it instantly obvious to you?



Quoted from Stampp
If I saw a belly dancer throwing up in front of two tramps, that would grab my attention. What you wrote? Next channel.


zzzzzzzzzzzzzzz. Exactly the same thing happens in your scripts, James.


Quoted from Stampp

That's even worse Dustin! Why did you give them names in the first place?? Skinny tramp and Fat tramp. Done.


So Skinny Tramp and Fat Tramp are not names? OK, mate... some advice for you, start out with the Mr Men series and work your way up from there. In thirty or forty years time, attempt to write something of your own... but don't show it to anybody.

Revision History (2 edits; 1 reasons shown)
DustinBowcot  -  July 19th, 2015, 3:33am
Insults.
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wonkavite
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Okay - I have to just throw in my five cents here.

"Squatters" is a very well known American term.  Given that I live in the Bronx, I use it to describe the situation of a few houses on my block all the time...  

--Cheers,

--J
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Stumpzian
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I hate to be the 40th person commenting on anything, but I've been out of pocket (U.S expression, 1908, meaning away or unavailable).

Effective short -- crisply told, funny lines (eg: "do we still get the money?"), absurdist situation made believable.

For me, there was no confusion about anything. As Janet said, squatter is a pretty common term.

Henry



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J.S.
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I hate to belabor this but since several have chimed in, we were talking about "squat", the noun, "A building occupied by people living in it without the legal right to do so", which according to the dictionary is chiefly British. I wasn't aware of either squat or squatters/squatting but, regardless, you're missing the larger point I'm making about clarity. Which is...

Even if you had written "INT. ABANDONED BUILDING" how does that somehow make it more clear where your characters are located? You response was, it isn't important. "If you had to guess which room two tramps would be sitting in amidst piles of rubbish, which one would you choose?" How ironic because when I questioned why you would choose to detail your character so much, you responded with. "It adds character." If you wanted me to guess about the setting, why not have me guess about the characters? Not very consistent.


Quoted from DustinBowcot

Oh this is just brilliant. You believe squat is a big word. Indeed a larger word than Abandoned Building. In my country we can just say 'squat'... but you'd prefer abandoned building because it is a smaller word. People that live in filthy, rat-ridden squats and abuse drugs are always tramps. What else could they be?


Exactly, this proves my point. You're not being clear. You want the reader to guess. As one of my teachers once said, "If I have to guess at the meaning of your words, you're getting a lower grade." And another common thing I've heard English teachers say is, "When in doubt, write it out." Yes, in your country you can say "squat", and people will understand what that means. I have never heard anyone refer to an abandoned building or site occupied by tramps referred to as a squat.


Quoted from DustinBowcot

I'm guessing this happens a lot with you, James. Excellent choice of words.


Yes, and thanks


Quoted from DustinBowcot

Then by this logic all stories are mysteries as we cannot know what is going to happen until it happens. We might feel that we can guess, but it is still a mystery until it actually happens.


No, Dustin. Not knowing what's going to happen until it happens is not the same as, "one often has to wait until the end to tie everything in." Your script is six pages long. Middle of page three is when he makes it clear what the job is. So up to that point its a mystery to the reader and the tramps. Your exposition ends three quarters in on page 4. Think about that. Where is the thriller part in this? Last two pages? Poor exposition.


Quoted from DustinBowcot

Then it isn't exposition.


What isn't exposition?


Quoted from DustinBowcot

Ah, I get it. How would you know it was the Prince of Zamunda? You expect a prince to walk around with a crown on their head?


Apparently you don't know who the Prince of Zamunda is


Quoted from DustinBowcot

So Skinny Tramp and Fat Tramp are not names?


You know what I meant, Dustin. Why did you give them proper names? They don't need it. Not only is more detailed and clear, it avoids confusion

-J.S.

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J.S.  -  July 19th, 2015, 4:37pm
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Max
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Ain't nobody write like that, bruh.

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J.S,

What word do you use instead of squatters?  What's the equivalent?
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Quoted from Stumpzian
I hate to be the 40th person commenting on anything, but I've been out of pocket (U.S expression, 1908, meaning away or unavailable).

Effective short -- crisply told, funny lines (eg: "do we still get the money?"), absurdist situation made believable.

For me, there was no confusion about anything. As Janet said, squatter is a pretty common term.

Henry


Thanks for the read and sharing your thoughts, Henry. Out of all the interest I've had in this script, only two of them are British, and one of them lives in LA. The rest, 4, are American. So they obviously haven't got a problem with it. I was surprised, as I wrote this with a British audience in mind. The dialogue is very British. I'll often Americanise my scripts, but my British voice is the strongest. So it was a conscious decision by me to keep this British and set in London.

Thanks again. Hope to see something new from you soon.
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DustinBowcot
Posted: July 19th, 2015, 5:27pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from Max
J.S,

What word do you use instead of squatters?  What's the equivalent?


I believe they're called 'squatters', Max.
Here's a link to the word in the Merriam-Webster, America's number one dictionary:

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/squatter

No mention there of it being chiefly British.
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