I guess I've basically been outed on this already so might as well come clean.

Dustin's idea to make it all in Wade's imagination: brilliant. I would have done that if I had thought of it.

Janet predicted a lot of sex in elevators: lol, I think this was the only one. If you can call it sex!

location: the elevator is in the autopsy room.

I had to have the autopsy room. Wade is not a necrophile. He's inexperienced, and in fact he's afraid of corpses. I wanted to take a page and try to set Wade up as sympathetic and show his evolution from fear of corpses, to curiosity, to growing feelings of erotic obsession. So I needed a set up scene.

The challenge for me was to make something disgusting become borderline erotic. That's hard to do as a writer, and I love a challenge. The story had no larger thematic meaning and is a pretty lame narrative.

Jeff's comments were basically bizarre. The assistants were in their mid 20s, the ME his 40s, and Wade is a 19 yr old intern. Seems about right to me. The description of Wade comes a few lines later because I wanted to bring the reader into the story first. Description is exposition, and I'd rather bring the reader into the story before spooning it out sometimes. It's simply not a rule to do it when the character is introduced, and there is no reason to burden the reader with that stuff too early. The bloody hands on the ME was done for a reason. I wanted to show that Wade is terrified of corpses. The ringing phone that the ME can't answer forces Wade to get closer to the autopsy than he wants. It's a chance to "show" Wade's fear. Why Jeff calls this a "tell" I have no idea. It's simple description. Weird wild stuff.

Anthony, the reason he pulls the emergency stop even though the elevator is stuck is this: he is about to molest the corpse. If the power comes on the elevator will start moving on its own, he does't want that because he is taking it up a notch with exploring the corpse.

Bill, thanks...not sure what you meant about "black eyed girl". She has black coming from her mouth...old blood or something.

Mo, feel free to explain why the first line is "atrocious". No idea why.

Finally, some people mentioned the single line action in the elevator. I don't normally use that method, but what I was trying to do here was create the perception of the time involved in the scene. For example, Wade rips himself away from the corpse and sits on the floor. He goes back to the corpse, but only after a long moment. I wanted the writing itself to convey that. There are different ways to skin the cat of a screenplay and create the effect you want(unless you're a rules guy). I encourage people to explore some of these. When I read how you guys handle things in different scenes I often learn from it, so I encourage you to continue to explore.

Great reviews and thanks! Much useful feedback. Not surprising considering how high the quality of the OWC stories that I read were.

Hi JS/Kev,

Black eyed girl - fair point. Not. A balck eyed girl in sight. Classic quick OWC review

All the best

You know when someone mentions my name and calls attention to something I said, I'll do my best to respond, so here goes...

Quoted from JSimon Jeff's comments were basically bizarre.

Sorry, Kevin, if you found my feedback to be "bizarre".  Let's see if I cna clear them up for you.

Quoted from JSimon The assistants were in their mid 20s, the ME his 40s, and Wade is a 19 yr old intern. Seems about right to me.

As for the character's ages, as I said quite clearly. it didn't make sense to me.  I have no problem with the ME being in his 40's.  The assistants being in their "mid 20s" is fine, also, as that says their most likely grad students, getting ready to be full fledge doctors.  The problem is your main character, Wade, who is 19.  At 19, he would most likely be a Sophmore in college, with no medical training and no reason that I can see to be "working" in a "Coroner's Building", assisting is some way while actual autopsies are going on.  It's your story, so you go right ahead with having your characters being any age you want them to be.  For me, it doesn't make much sense.

Quoted from JSimon The description of Wade comes a few lines later because I wanted to bring the reader into the story first. Description is exposition, and I'd rather bring the reader into the story before spooning it out sometimes. It's simply not a rule to do it when the character is introduced, and there is no reason to burden the reader with that stuff too early.

Your comments about character description are actually what's bizarre.  And it's funny, how once again, you feel compelled to use the word "rule".

So, for the first half of the page, we know Wade is 19, but we don't have a clue what he looks like, even though he's the center of attention right out of the gate in your very first passage.

Then, in a passage beginning with "they", even though "they" are not all together, or even close, as far as I can tell, you decide to tell us Wade is a "dorky looking kid" and then you infer he resembles "Harry Potter grown up", and finally, that he isn't magic.  At 19, I don't think he could be grown up, could he?  You just called him a kid in the first part of the description.  And why would anyone assume he is magic?  What does that have to do with anything?  If we didn't know Harry Potter had magic abilities, would we assume that by looking at him?  Talk about bizarre, bro...really?

As I said and will always say, intro your characters immediately - it's foolish to describe them later, as we've already seen them and spent time with them.  It's not a burden...trust me...your readers won't have a problem with the writer describing any and all characters when they're first intro'd.

Quoted from JSimon The bloody hands on the ME was done for a reason. I wanted to show that Wade is terrified of corpses. The ringing phone that the ME can't answer forces Wade to get closer to the autopsy than he wants. It's a chance to "show" Wade's fear. Why Jeff calls this a "tell" I have no idea. It's simple description.

First of all, Kev, it's a "tell" because in order to "show" this, it will be incredibly awkward.

Basically, you have a cell phone, which we don't see, ring in the ME's pocket.  Wade is nowhere near him, based on the very first line in your script.  No one has moved.

Then, you "tell" us that the ME's hands are "dirty with blood and gore", so try and picture this filmed as written...an unseen phone rings...close on the ME's "dirty" hands...ME tells Wade to answer his phone for him (even though he's nowhere near him, while other peeps are)...then Wade "comes near" to answer the phone.  Not only is it a "tell", it's incredibly awkward.

Quoted from JSimon Weird wild stuff.

Yes, indeed...

Hope this helps you better understand my comments.

Why do you even need to see the cell phone ring? It rings, the dude says "top left pocket" or something, because that's where it is coming from.

Quoted from Max Why do you even need to see the cell phone ring? It rings, the dude says "top left pocket" or something, because that's where it is coming from.

Who said anything about needing to see the cell phone ring?

How would anyone see it ring if it's in his pocket?

Quoted from Dreamscale Who said anything about needing to see the cell phone ring? How would anyone see it ring if it's in his pocket?

I was just wandering how that tied into your point, you said "basically, we have a phone ring, which we don't see"

Okay, then you follow that with a comment about Wade being ages way.

I don't understand how this ties together.

Quoted from Dreamscale Who said anything about needing to see the cell phone ring?

You specify that we don't see it.

Quoted from Dreamscale Basically, you have a cell phone, which we don't see, ring in the ME's pocket.

Why specify that if it doesn't mean that we should see it?

Quoted from DustinBowcot You specify that we don't see it. Why specify that if it doesn't mean that we should see it?

What Dustin said, lol.

Wade is an intern, though there's really no need to know that. Pia worked a similar job when she was 16.

Quoted Text As I said and will always say, intro your characters immediately - it's foolish to describe them later, as we've already seen them and spent time with them

You've just described it as a rule. That's your choice, but it's not a rule, and more importantly it doesn't interfere with the read to do it this way. You can criticize the actual description now, fine, though you did not previously. Your original objection was that it came after the character intro.

See, this is where rules...and you have described it as a rule...get in the way of good writing. Let's say your story is about a poker game with 5 players. You COULD begin by giving accurate descriptions of each character from the outset. But that's tedious to the reader, who is absorbing 5 character descriptions without even knowing anything about the story or whether it interests him. That's often a mistake. Another way to handle that is to mix in a little action with the introductions, but that's not always easy, and it can be contrived, and that also probably violates one of your rules since you want to be able to envision all five of the players from the outset. Trust me, it's tedious to read all these descriptions. Jeff, I will grant that you don't mind. I know you don't. But 99% of readers find that kind of exposition tedious. Especially when it comes before we have been brought into the story...not into the setting, but into the story.

Certainly if I gave the description a page or two later that would be strange. But here it's a matter of lines. I chose to attempt to bring the audience into the situation first, then enhance it the description. I think most readers will find that easier. No one else complained.

The bloody hands are not a tell and it's strange to say so. Bizarre. Really bizarre. The other assistants are busy...hands also dirty. Only Wade is clean-handed and doing nothing. There's no need to "close in" on the ME's hands...we can SEE why he can't answer the phone, his hands are dirty because of what he's doing. And of course Wade comes near to answer the phone, he has to...and this puts him uncomfortably close to the autopsy, which was the point of it. There was nothing unclear in that scene. I honestly can't imagine anyone reading it and not understanding it unless they approached the read intending to not be constructive.

Frankly Jeff, I know you're a bright guy, but those criticisms were all so off base that I can only assume that either you were drinking or you somehow knew the script was mine. Every OWC can be better written and my STORY here is not very impressive at all. But there's nothing in the writing to stop the read, certainly nothing to call it "shit". I mean literally every one of your objections doesn't hold an ounce of water, except maybe the asides, which I purposely put in and some people don't care for.

I have no problem with criticism that's honestly given. When someone forces objections like this I don't consider it honest.

Quoted from DustinBowcot You specify that we don't see it. Why specify that if it doesn't mean that we should see it?

I'm sorry, I don't follow what you or MAx are trying to say.

If a phone is in someone's pocket, how can anyone see it?  Is that a correct statement?

Nowhere did I say that anyone, including the viewers or readers 'needs" to see it, or should see it.

Picture this in a filmed version...it shouldn't be that difficult.  What am I missing here?  You guys looking to try and attack my comments?  You'll have to try alot harder.

Kev, I'm not going to quote your reply or even attempt to respond line by line, because there's just no need.

If you don't get what I'm saying, I'm sorry...just trying to point out a few very obvious things that no one seems to get.

My feedback was honest and was simply pointing out these issues.  It's your script, you write it just how you want to and if you think it's amazing or perfect as written, then you go, bro.

You continue to have to use the word "rule" over and voer in every one of your posts, yet you maintain that I'm the one obsessed with some kind of rules.  It's not me, bro...it's you.

Good job on your script.  It appears to be very popular and that's what counts, in my book.

Nobody is attacking you Dreamscale, that's parro talk.  I guess I'll just have to try and explain myself again, Dustin spotted the same thing I did as well.

Attack the post, not the poster, that's what I say.

Quoted Text First of all, Kev, it's a "tell" because in order to "show" this, it will be incredibly awkward. Basically, you have a cell phone, which we don't see, ring in the ME's pocket.  Wade is nowhere near him, based on the very first line in your script.  No one has moved. Then, you "tell" us that the ME's hands are "dirty with blood and gore", so try and picture this filmed as written...an unseen phone rings...close on the ME's "dirty" hands...ME tells Wade to answer his phone for him (even though he's nowhere near him, while other peeps are)...then Wade "comes near" to answer the phone.  Not only is it a "tell", it's incredibly awkward.

The first bold bit struck me as odd. You mention that we can't see the cell phone, okay? I'm not sure how that's relevant to anything, then you follow up that statement with a comment about Wade being too far away.  I'm not sure how those things link together, or follow on.

You mention twice that we don't see the phone, again... what is the point you are trying to make here? That it would be awkward to film? Why feel the need to state that we can't see the phone? You say it as if... WE SHOULD be seeing the phone, or that it's awkward because we can't see it.

When I see something which doesn't make sense, I call it out, just like you.  Dustin is another head, right, and he was kind of baffled with that as well.

Max...dude...really?

Awkward to film?  How about awkward to watch?  As in the viewers would be clueless as to what the fuck is going on or why this is being included.

Kevin states why he included this and if that works for you or him, or Dustin, that's great.  It did not work for me at all, and I've tried several times to explain why, using very simple words and what I see as very clear descriptions and reasons.

I've told peeps like you, Max, staight up that you're going to get all sorts of feedback and alot of it, or maybe even most of it, will be downright foolish or incorrect.  When that happens, you simply move on and add a check to memory that this reviewer has no clue what they're talking about.

If that's how you see my feedback here or even in general, then, don't listen to anything I have to say going forward and don't ask me for my advice.  Very simple.

Kev can't do that.  Kev has to continually use the word "rule" in pretty much every post he writes, and he tries to make it seem like i'm the one stuck on some phantom rules.  He also has to continually try and discredit everything I say, as if it's some type of contest on who's the smartest.

You watch when writers are revealed and see if I attack or debate anyone who spoke negatively on my entry.  It won't happen.  It doesn't need to happen.  I'll simply explain what I tried to do and why I wrote it the way I did.

Everyone has an opinion and they're entitled to it.

Quoted from Dreamscale Max...dude...really? Awkward to film?  How about awkward to watch?  As in the viewers would be clueless as to what the fuck is going on or why this is being included. Kevin states why he included this and if that works for you or him, or Dustin, that's great.  It did not work for me at all, and I've tried several times to explain why, using very simple words and what I see as very clear descriptions and reasons. I've told peeps like you, Max, staight up that you're going to get all sorts of feedback and alot of it, or maybe even most of it, will be downright foolish or incorrect.  When that happens, you simply move on and add a check to memory that this reviewer has no clue what they're talking about. If that's how you see my feedback here or even in general, then, don't listen to anything I have to say going forward and don't ask me for my advice.  Very simple. Kev can't do that.  Kev has to continually use the word "rule" in pretty much every post he writes, and he tries to make it seem like i'm the one stuck on some phantom rules.  He also has to continually try and discredit everything I say, as if it's some type of contest on who's the smartest. You watch when writers are revealed and see if I attack or debate anyone who spoke negatively on my entry.  It won't happen.  It doesn't need to happen.  I'll simply explain what I tried to do and why I wrote it the way I did. Everyone has an opinion and they're entitled to it.

That's all well and good, but what I'm confused about is why you mentioned twice that the phone can't be seen? Can we just stay on that, I wanted to break down that point you made because I didn't understand what you meant by that.

Is it awkward for a phone to ring while it's in someone's pocket?

Maybe you have a point about Wade being across the room, fine.

But there's no problem for me visualizing the phone ringing in the ME's pocket, him turning to Wade and saying "Little help, Wade. Left coat pocket."... while he has blood all over his hands.  You don't even need a CLOSE shot for that, you know how surgeons hold their hands up when they use their back to push open a door? I imagined him with his hands up like that, while looking to Wade and asking for some assistance.

If you can't visualize that, fair enough, that's a different issue you have to contend with. I had no problem picturing what was going on, maybe you need a little more than that.