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SimplyScripts Screenwriting Discussion Board    One Week Challenge    May, 2015 One Week Challenge  ›  The Necro File - OWC
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  Author    The Necro File - OWC  (currently 6681 views)
Don
Posted: May 24th, 2015, 11:39am Report to Moderator
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So, what are you writing?

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The Necro File by Dunkin Ho Nuts - Short, Erotic Horror - A sexually inexperienced assistant to the coroner becomes stuck on an elevator with the corpse of a beautiful young woman and, well, first love is never easy, is it? 8 pages - pdf, format


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Dustin
Posted: May 24th, 2015, 12:33pm Report to Moderator
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Off to a great start with the log.

OK, not bad. I liked that. I think you could have avoided horror altogether here if he carried her off afterwards... that way it would appear that her resurrection was all in his mind.

I'll give this a 7.


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DanC
Posted: May 24th, 2015, 1:00pm Report to Moderator
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Well, that was, umm, interesting.

I don't understand why that happened.  but, I guess love finds a way??

I agree with Dustin 7/10


Please read my scripts:
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I'm interested in reading animation, horror, sci fy, suspense, fantasy, and anything that is good.  I enjoy writing the same.  Looking to team with anyone!

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Pale Yellow
Posted: May 24th, 2015, 2:55pm Report to Moderator
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I have to say that I love the title on this one and the logline. That often shapes how I go into a story and even how I feel through the story.

The character development here with Wade was well done(better than most shorts I've ever read). Wade is inexperienced with everything....autopsy...love and especially love.

The organic set up with the other guys talking about the looker corpse that Wade is to take up the elevator feels naturally woven into the story. We know something necro is going to happen, we just do, but the mid part of the story has a clever way of playing with the audience. The writer has us thinking one way ...then turns us another. This is very very good writing in the middle part of this script IMO. Often this is where most fail, but I believe it's the strongest point of this script.

Then the twisty part where instead of Wade doing the dirty...the corpse does. Very very clever and I loved that part even though I HATE sex in a short. I usually think it's a cheap gimmick often loved by the readers here, however, but the way it was done here...I think it fit(in a fucked up sort'a way).

Great part when she kills Wade. I mean he's so pathetic, we don't really care if she kills him at that point. But I love them running off together ...that visual with him in his socks made me laugh. Feel good moment after the bizarre elevator ride.

Great job, writer.
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DS
Posted: May 24th, 2015, 3:01pm Report to Moderator
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Flashback to the the main OWC thread:



Nope?
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Max
Posted: May 24th, 2015, 3:12pm Report to Moderator
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I do agree with the setup being organic, a bunch of lads doing an autopsy... mocking the loser of the group, taking the piss and all that.

It works on that level straight away.

The ending was a nice picture, the socks was a nice touch. I think the action was maybe... a bit too spaced out? Not sure what others think about it but I would've grouped a few more of the action lines together.

However, on the other hand, each line is a beat so it does dictate the length of said "sexual encounter" if you even want to call it that lol.

I've read about 3 or 4 scripts so far, each one of them... written very clearly and this was too. I'm really happy with some of the work I've read so far, potential for greatness.

A question: Were we allowed to use locations outside of the elevator?


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stevemiles
Posted: May 24th, 2015, 4:18pm Report to Moderator
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Ok, you had me at ‘A sexually inexperienced assistant to the coroner...’  I think this should win something for the log alone.  Love it, though I’m wondering if I’ll regret reading…

All the talk of Wade’s inexperience feels a little overdone.  Interested to see who wrote this -- for the writing style alone.  Think it works here given the gradual build-up to Wade’s ‘deed’.

By the time Wade started the kiss I thought I had this all figured out -- but then you went and took it somewhere else.  

Not sure how I feel about the payoff, as it didn’t quite seem to compliment the set-up.  
Think the corpse turning the tables on Wade, yet having him live could have worked better for me.  Leaving poor Wade with that as his first sexual encounter lends a certain touch of irony.  Though you took an altogether different route -- and they ‘lived’ happily ever after...

I liked it, not even sure you took it far enough given the premise… though perhaps a good thing?  Some might argue the in/around the elevator location was stretched here.

Steve


My short scripts can be found here on my new & improved budget website:


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DS
Posted: May 24th, 2015, 4:57pm Report to Moderator
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I'll join the ranks for the logline appreciation. The way I see it this one was never intended for production, instead just to be a bit of an out there OWC entry and I think it did a good job at being that. I'm still unsure whether I liked it or not, but other than personal like/dislike I have nothing negative to say anyway. A very interesting take.

I'm also going to go ahead and guess that this is the number 5 Don had in mind. I'm not sure whether this fit the location parameters or not.


Quoted from SimplyScripts
5. There is one script that did and didn't meet the requirements, but it was a so out of the box interpretation of the theme that I had to include it.
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DanC
Posted: May 24th, 2015, 9:19pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from DS
I'll join the ranks for the logline appreciation. The way I see it this one was never intended for production, instead just to be a bit of an out there OWC entry and I think it did a good job at being that. I'm still unsure whether I liked it or not, but other than personal like/dislike I have nothing negative to say anyway. A very interesting take.

I'm also going to go ahead and guess that this is the number 5 Don had in mind. I'm not sure whether this fit the location parameters or not.



I don't think this is that script that didn't fit the guideline.  I think it was that short about the elevators and Alice, the girl who gets abused.

At least, that was my impression of what story didn't fit in.


Please read my scripts:
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rendevous
Posted: May 24th, 2015, 11:24pm Report to Moderator
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Grim title. In many ways.

I was enjoying the early scenes, probably for all the wrong reasons as they weren't in a lift. Which is a shame.

It's very dark. But it's well written and thought out. There was a lot of telling going on, but I know it's about the only way you can describe those scenes without resorting to camera directions.

One of the better ones.

R



Out Of Character - updated


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The Deuce - OWC - now on STS

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oJOHNNYoNUTSo
Posted: May 24th, 2015, 11:57pm Report to Moderator
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The execution is what made this work. I thought it was a great decision to get the reader to side with Wade first. Weird to say, Wade earned his romantic quest here.

Dialogue was mostly great, but every now and then a miss with pacing.

Overall I'm mixed, the ending felt like a coming of age story. However, I 'm impressed by the setup and tone achieved with the sexy writing in the elevator.
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DS
Posted: May 25th, 2015, 11:07am Report to Moderator
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Quoted from DanC


I don't think this is that script that didn't fit the guideline.  I think it was that short about the elevators and Alice.

At least, that was my impression of what story didn't fit in.


Yeah, good point. Not sure why I thought this one was it. I don't think it's off the parameters at all really anymore. Even if it is, just a little. I missed the mark there.
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Jeremiah Johnson
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Congrats on your entry.

Your writing is very good.  The opening scene really flowed and could visualize it.  Not really a fan of the content but kept me reading until the end.  Not many mistakes so good job.  The ending really didn't work for me but not bad really.  Overall, good writing and could easily be made.  Good luck.


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AnthonyCawood
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It took me a while to get into this as the opening scene with the ME just didn't ring true as I didn't buy that he'd tolerate or be involved in such horsing around whilst he's carrying out an autopsy.

Improved when we get to the elevator section, though I had to look up 'gams'...

I didn't understand why we get the following line half way through, when the elevator has stopped already...
He pulls the emergency stop on the panel. A distant alarm.

Is this a remnant from an earlier draft?

Wasn't convinced by the end... he's molesting her corpse and she decides to create an eternal lover... who'd already been identified as being out of his league... hmmm not entirely convinced.

But overall well written, and you gotta love a story that has the balls to bring necrophilia into it... wonder where my copy of Nekromantik is?

Anthony



Anthony Cawood - Award winning screenwriter
Available Short screenplays - http://www.anthonycawood.co.uk/short-scripts
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eldave1
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Great title - great log line.

I found this one just bordering on the outside the limits for the contest - about one third of it takes place outside the elevator.

The action (let's say the interchange) in the elevator was handled extremely well.

Not a huge fan of the ending.

Overall - a real solid effort here.  


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eldave1
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Quoted from DanC


I don't think this is that script that didn't fit the guideline.  I think it was that short about the elevators and Alice, the girl who gets abused.

At least, that was my impression of what story didn't fit in.


Totally opposite view on my part - recheck the Alice script. The camera never leaves the elevator. All of the father's dialogue is V.O.


My Scripts can all be seen here:

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JSimon
Posted: May 26th, 2015, 8:37am Report to Moderator
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what I liked:

- An actual attempt to make necrophilia seem erotic! That's kinda weird. The character violating the corpse is even kind of sympathetic. Or just pathetic? lol But at some point you almost want him to touch the dead girl. I think. Hey, hard to disappoint a corpse, right? They almost never complain or want to cuddle.
- I'm old enough to get the Tom Petty remark. I guess that makes me old.
- the ending: Wade gets what he wants, though it comes with a price; at least he's not alone now. Nor inexperienced!

what needs work:

- There is a tonal problem. The first two pages show Wade being picked on by everyone else in the ME's office, even the ME. That creates a tone of humor. But then the tone is totally different on the elevator. It's dark and squeamishly erotic. No humor. Tonal shifts are the mark of amateur writing, one of the most common marks of the beginner. The tone is kind of recaptured though in the last couple of brief scenes. Another switch maybe. I don't know. Maybe the shifts aren't too much of a problem with the right actor playing Wade. I would suggest avoiding tonal shifts in future work.

character investment:

- we don't know much about Wade, but we have a sense of him from his being picked on; from his fear of the corpse which turns to curiosity and then strange lust mixed with guilt. He has no dialogue it seems. That's different for a protag.

Bonus: there is a happy ending before the ending! And they do say a man dies with a...well, let's leave it alone.
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DanC
Posted: May 26th, 2015, 9:27am Report to Moderator
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Quoted from JSimon
what I liked:

- An actual attempt to make necrophilia seem erotic! That's kinda weird. The character violating the corpse is even kind of sympathetic. Or just pathetic? lol But at some point you almost want him to touch the dead girl. I think. Hey, hard to disappoint a corpse, right? They almost never complain or want to cuddle.
- I'm old enough to get the Tom Petty remark. I guess that makes me old.
- the ending: Wade gets what he wants, though it comes with a price; at least he's not alone now. Nor inexperienced!

what needs work:



- There is a tonal problem. The first two pages show Wade being picked on by everyone else in the ME's office, even the ME. That creates a tone of humor. But then the tone is totally different on the elevator. It's dark and squeamishly erotic. No humor. Tonal shifts are the mark of amateur writing, one of the most common marks of the beginner. The tone is kind of recaptured though in the last couple of brief scenes. Another switch maybe. I don't know. Maybe the shifts aren't too much of a problem with the right actor playing Wade. I would suggest avoiding tonal shifts in future work.

character investment:

- we don't know much about Wade, but we have a sense of him from his being picked on; from his fear of the corpse which turns to curiosity and then strange lust mixed with guilt. He has no dialogue it seems. That's different for a protag.

Bonus: there is a happy ending before the ending! And they do say a man dies with a...well, let's leave it alone.




I got the Tom Petty too.  I would have gone with Cold Ethyl myself, or Alice Cooper, but, eh, to each...

I will also add that there is nothing like a cold one after dinner, right?

And, one more for the road, but, other bonuses are:  They never get a headache, never complain, don't need gifts, don't need their hands held, and are easy to please, and are always ready...

Yeah, I'll go now.


Please read my scripts:
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Dan
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RichardR
Posted: May 26th, 2015, 4:34pm Report to Moderator
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This one works, but I have to admit I thought it was a setup.  I figured the 'dead' girl wasn't and the guys would watch the seduction of wade via some hidden camera.  A prank. Instead we get some sort of vampire aura, someone who never dies and converts others. I guess the reference to the Feds indicates that she is something different. I think there's a touch too much levity in the room, but then I have never been in one. The levity made me anticipate the prank.

Good job
Best
Richard
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khamanna
Posted: May 27th, 2015, 1:46am Report to Moderator
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It shifted in tone for me when they got inside the elevator - don't know if it's a good thing. Perhaps nothing serious.

I wish he knew her before he started checking her out - it's hard to stick with a character who checks out a dead person. Not like he glanced at her, he lifted the thing, unstapled it or something (don't remember exactly I read it and then read another two or three). Then they are together and I'm not happy for them because there's no story between them.
So, that's mainly my complaint here.
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Gum
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“If I was gonna Tom Petty one she’d be my first draft pick”

Lol, I remember that video! … one of his (Tom’s) best . This line actually set a more palatable mood for what actually transpired. I kept seeing the dead woman with Kim Basinger’s face on it, which works for me.


I’m not sure where the supernatural angle came from. IMO there could have been a little something injected into the script to give that nuance a spark, maybe even the elevator lights dimming in and out for a brief moment... just an afterthought really.

I was working in a large health care facility (HSC), and was travelling up in an elevator in the labs department. When I hit floor 2; I actually got locked down (in the elevator) so an ME could transport a corpse up a few floors. Believe it or not, the ME was a very good looking woman; this made the experience even more awkward. So dude, this entire script resonates well with me, it’s full of potential.

I loved the final scene, of this deranged, love struck necrophiliac running nude into the green sunny field with his first girlfriend; that was the icing on the cake!


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Reef Dreamer
Posted: May 27th, 2015, 2:24pm Report to Moderator
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This was well handled.

Ok, the subject matter is 'different' but you made a story out of it.

I think enough was focused on the lift not to worry about the extra locations. Many seem to have taken a flexible view to the criteria, as is often the case. We all need a bit of creativity on these matters.

The banter before hand worked and help set up the lift. Not too much to distract, enough to set it up.

In the lift, wade and his advances made me cringe. Well done. It showed emotional connection - NO I don't want to do the same, I was just saying, I felt something. And NO not that. Sick mind you have

Black eyed girl, didn't so work for me, but I love the idea of him running away with her. Still dead.



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wonkavite
Posted: May 28th, 2015, 7:37pm Report to Moderator
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Well, an EXTREMELY squeamish topic, obviously.  Solid writing.  Good beats.  If it were me, I'd rework the ending a touch.  And I *certainly* wouldn't be focusing on the protag's socks!    

Also, it might be worthwhile to be a bit clearer re: what mythos (if any) you're working with.  Is she a vampire?  A ghoul?  Have they become disembodied spirits?  (Though I doubt it, if both bodies disappear from the elevator.)  

But all in all - creepy and decent  
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SteveDiablo
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Captivating first page!
Captivating script, breeze to read.
Enjoyed this one, my favourite so far.

The ending, probably not so great. It works, and it's fine, but I just wanted something more "surprising".

Great job.
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MarkRenshaw
Posted: May 29th, 2015, 8:27am Report to Moderator
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I thought we were heading for a setup from the coroner and the other nob assistants, so thanks for not going down the obvious route.

You handle such a disturbing scenario with charm, dignity and grace. This could have been a real awkward read but it wasn’t. All I will say about the section in the elevator, the way you’ve written it is to establish pace, and I get that. It just took me out of the screenplay with so many short camera directions spread across pages of single sentences.  I started to drift so it was a big surprise when I found her risen from the dead, had to go back half a page to catch where it happened.

There’s no explanation for the event, so it comes out of left field but it’s a well written piece, which managed to have an emotional impact on me, despite such a difficult subject matter to tackle, so very well done.

Does it qualify? I suppose it might. The rules said, in or around an elevator and you needed some way to explain why he was in an elevator with a corpse. There’s plenty of entries who’ve strayed far further than this so I’ll say OK on this one.

-Mark


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Stumpzian
Posted: May 29th, 2015, 8:53am Report to Moderator
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This writer makes me think of an old Seinfeld exchange in which George Costanza has said or done something outlandish. Elaine (or Jerry) says: What did your parents DO to you?"

Just kidding.

We all know necrophilia exists. Wade doesn't have this condition, though; otherwise he wouldn't be so squeamish watching an autopsy. (Or maybe he's just a confused young man, conflicted about his feelings; am I pro-life or am I pro...dead?)

Anyway, I know this is supposed to be over the top. It is.

The writer is a pro, although, as a Woody Allen character once said, "There are a few things I would've done differently, but who cares!"




Revision History (1 edits)
Stumpzian  -  May 29th, 2015, 3:02pm
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Dreamscale
Posted: May 29th, 2015, 6:38pm Report to Moderator
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2nd to last entry for me, so if I can stay in, I'll be detailed.

Well, looks like we got ourselves a problem right out of the old proverbial gate - no elevator.

Next problem is the fact that we have an autopsy going on that isn't shown, meaning the scene hasn't been set.

Hmmm, of 4 peeps on the autoposy, and 2 are mid 20's and 1 is 19...doesn't seem to make sense to me, but I'll try and stay in.

I'm not a big fan of the early dialogue, but I'm still here.

Very strange how we get a description of Wade 1/2 a page after he's been intro'd.  This is a mistake any way you look at it.  Intro your characters immediately, and include as mush or as little description as you want, but don't do it 1/2 a page later.

"His hands are dirty with blood and gore though." - IMO, this is an odd line.  It's a tell of sorts.

Page 2 - Since teh scene was never properly set, we have no idea where anyone or anything is, so it's imossible for me to visualize Wade grabbing the cell phone or where he ash to go to do it.

OK, Page 3 and we finally have an elevator.  Way too long.  Entry shold have been DQ'd, IMO.

A power outage hits immediately, huh?  And you decided to throw in the nice, little  aside, "Shit!".  Yeah, shit is right.  I'm out, I'm afraid.


To ski or not to ski...that's not even a question.
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Max
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Quoted Text
A power outage hits immediately, huh?  And you decided to throw in the nice, little  aside, "Shit!".  Yeah, shit is right.  I'm out, I'm afraid.


To be honest Dreamscale, my script was probably the worst entry of the bunch, so I kind of disagree with that last comment of yours towards this particular writer. I think the BOLD bit is far from tactful and constructive.

I'm from the UK so I might have a different interpretation of what you just wrote, forgive me if that's the case but saying "Yeah, shit is right"... went a bit too far.

You provide feedback which is extremely useful and if you think something is shit then fairplay, but there needs to be a balance in what you write and perhaps a certain sensitivity.

I don't know who the writer is so I can't speak for him/her but still, I'd be aware that people could take what you wrote as a bit asshole-ish.

I've got an extremely thick skin but others... not so much. I'm a newbie in this ting with no formal education on anything, I'm about bettering myself... so I'll ask around and take advice without insulting those who have criticism for me.

There ain't nothing wrong with a bit of tact, even if you are tired with trawling through these "shit" OWC entries. The tone switches a lot in your posts, it was all roses up until that comment and I was like wha? Come on my man, don't turn people off... be blunt but don't take a tone because that is bound to piss people off, and I know deep down you're trying to help people get better. You never took that tone with me in our private messages so huh?

Come on blud, you didn't say my script was "shit". You have to read what you wrote as if... somebody was speaking in that tone in real life because that's how people imagine it in their heads.

Just chiming in for a quick minute, take it or leave it.




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JSimon
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Dream is a rules guy. He needs them like a security blanket. He has a good eye for catching "rule" violations but doesn't really understand the purpose of these guidelines so he applies them as though they were laws. They are not.

And I suspect he has trouble providing objective analysis on a script if he feels he knows the writer or believes the writer has given him a harsh review. So he makes it personal. As writers we have to separate the harsh but well intended and well thought out criticism from stuff that is not constructively intended. I'm sure this writer can do that.

The autopsy is mentioned in the first line. There's no need to set it any more than that. In fact, to do so is a waste of narrative space. We know what an autopsy looks like, there's no need to describe the corpse being autopsied, there's no need to provide a detailed description of the autopsy room. I'm grateful the writer does not. Stick to the narrative and let the reader imagine the rest.

4 people seem to work there in this coroner's lab. The ME is in his 40s, the two assistants are in their mid 20s, the intern Wade is 19. Those ages are completely appropriate and the fact that Dreamscale tries to find fault with that gives his game away, doesn't it? I suspect a rough review on his own script.

The description given to Wade comes half a page later. I suspect the writer does so in order to set the stage and bring the reader into the story before adding some description. It's a rational approach. Try to bring the reader into the story before you burden him with description...and then try to give only as much description as needed, and if possible give that description piecemeal. Dream's only objection is that it violates some rule he dreams exists somewhere. But there is no rule, so his feedback in that doesn't help. It COULD help if his reaction was to let the writer know whether this helped or hindered the storytelling flow...but we don't know, because he's only basing the criticism on some nonexistent rule.

The ME's hands are described as bloody to make clear why he has Wade answer his phone. It's mere description, no more a "tell" than the description of a room or character. If the reviewer is setting out with the mission of taking apart a script for some reason, surely he can do better than that?

Just my two cents. I've already raised issues I had with this script. Dream's review strikes me is motivated by some kind of personal animus...which there is no place for here I would assume.
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Max
Posted: May 29th, 2015, 7:42pm Report to Moderator
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The thing is though, he was a proper safe dude to me in our PM's together. I was like "Damn son! This dude is opening my eyes right here to what I'm doing wrong, and he ain't slaying me for it"

But for some reason his tone did a 180 towards this dude and I was like huh? Don't get it.

He ain't a hater tho... or at least he doesn't act like one on the down low. He puts the effort in to help people but it can sometimes become counter-productive.

It reminds me of what Tyson said to Dawkins.


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Dreamscale
Posted: May 29th, 2015, 7:44pm Report to Moderator
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  Really?

Max, I did not intend to say the script was "shit".  The aside says, "Shit!".  My response was exactly the same, "Shit!".  It's where I bailed, but in no way was I trying to bash the writer or the script.

Mr. Simon, thanks for responding for the writer.  Sounds like you'd write this the same way the writer did...which is...uh...interesting, shall we say.

If you really want to get into my comments exactly as written and intended, we could do that.  And, if necessary, I could very easily tell you exactly why each item I brought up, was brought up and what's wrong about it.

And, no, it's nothing about any rules you seem to take issue with - it's about common sense and what either makes sense or doesn't make sense in both a written script and a filmed movie.

Sorry to ruffle your feathers.


To ski or not to ski...that's not even a question.
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Max
Posted: May 29th, 2015, 7:57pm Report to Moderator
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I disagree with Simon's view, he speaks for himself so that's his own battle.

When you're reviewing a script, and you read a piece of the dialogue that says "Shit!"... and you follow that with...

"Yeah, shit is right. I'm out, I'm afraid!"

To give context to the tone, and this may or may not be correct - Imagine if you were reading somebody's book... infront of them, imagine you read a piece of dialogue that said "shit"... you closed the book infront of them and said "shit is right, I'm out"

See what I mean? That's how it reads, despite your intentions.

It's just weird because you never had that tone with me, and I was wow'd by the fact you even bothered to help me which I'm still extremely happy with but still... I'm a man with more than six sides, I say what I say.


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Dreamscale
Posted: May 29th, 2015, 8:21pm Report to Moderator
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Hey...I calls 'em as I sees 'em.

The point is that the word, "Shit!" in the script is an aside. It was placed there with some intention of eliciting a response, and I gave the response that it elicited from me.

Sorry if that offened or upset anyone, as it obviously did.


To ski or not to ski...that's not even a question.
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JSimon
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Fenigus, his comments are useful to beginning writers. Not saying you are one, I don't know you. But if you are to succeed you will need at some point to outgrow these non-existent commandments. What Dream confuses as rules are guidelines to beginners...nothing more. For example, beginners fill their work with things that are not filmable. So it's wise to teach them to avoid these "asides". But there is in fact no rule against using them, and they can and do serve a purpose. Every pro writer uses them, and they use them knowingly. I could go into some of the purposes for using them, but better to just let you learn this on your own, which you will, as soon as you accept that these rules he insists on simply don't exist.
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Max
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Quoted from Dreamscale
Hey...I calls 'em as I sees 'em.

The point is that the word, "Shit!" in the script is an aside. It was placed there with some intention of eliciting a response, and I gave the response that it elicited from me.

Sorry if that offened or upset anyone, as it obviously did.


Bro, I'm a grown ass man... I've been through strife in my life, and it doesn't equate to some comment you made on simplyscripts.com, for real.

If you want to upset me you have to get in my face and say something. If you want to offend me you have to walk up to me and do something.

I'm on about tact here and that's what it is, we all have different standards of what tact is of course but again... it's all opinion, an opinion which I gave some sort of context to.

This ain't my script, you know that... so it ain't on a "pissed off because he ripped my script" vibe, because I PM'd you politely and asked for advice... without ever taking an insulting tone.





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Dreamscale
Posted: May 29th, 2015, 8:38pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from Max
Bro, I'm a grown ass man... I've been through strife in my life, and it doesn't equate to some comment you made on simplyscripts.com, for real.

If you want to upset me you have to get in my face and say something. If you want to offend me you have to walk up to me and do something.

I'm on about tact here and that's what it is, we all have different standards of what tact is of course but again... it's all opinion, an opinion which I gave some sort of context to.

This ain't my script, you know that... so it ain't on a "pissed off because he ripped my script" vibe, because I PM'd you politely and asked for advice... without ever taking an insulting tone.


Yeah, bro, it's all cool from my viewpoint.



To ski or not to ski...that's not even a question.
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Dreamscale
Posted: May 29th, 2015, 8:39pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from JSimon
Fenigus, his comments are useful to beginning writers. Not saying you are one, I don't know you. But if you are to succeed you will need at some point to outgrow these non-existent commandments. What Dream confuses as rules are guidelines to beginners...nothing more. For example, beginners fill their work with things that are not filmable. So it's wise to teach them to avoid these "asides". But there is in fact no rule against using them, and they can and do serve a purpose. Every pro writer uses them, and they use them knowingly. I could go into some of the purposes for using them, but better to just let you learn this on your own, which you will, as soon as you accept that these rules he insists on simply don't exist.


Dude, there you go again quoting rules.  I didn't say a word about any rules, did I?

Why are you so obsessed over these "rules" as you call them?  I don't get it...I honestly don't get it.



To ski or not to ski...that's not even a question.
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Max
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I'm done here anyway, I deleted my last post because it wasn't what I wanted to get across.

All I'm saying Dreamscale is that you can do better, as a teacher... because that's what you seem to be, a person who wants to teach.

I'm all for that, because people in this world would probably charge money for what you told me, and I got simple advice for free.



Revision History (1 edits)
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Iancou
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Nice effort. The action portions started out like a typical script, then morphed to one-line descriptions. Made for a quick read with... nice?... imagery. While the necrophilia angle is not my cup of tea, it was well written for the most part. The ending lacked the punch I was expecting, but others may disagree. Good work.


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nawazm11
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I haven't really focused specifically on writing here, but, man, that first line is just atrocious. Really think of rewording it. Besides that, the writing was pretty good, except some little mishaps here and there.

Not my thing, but I could see the appeal, some good dialogue and character work, story works for what it is, not a lot to complain about, but again, not my thing. Good effort.

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PrussianMosby
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THE NECRO FILE

Okay, title and logline are awesome of course. There's already tension before opening that Necro FILE.

Super openinig.

Before he reaches the elevator, I think Wade deserves a line of text to fix his insecurity and tell us about his state of mind, and especially what he thinks about his colleagues. They all are talking about him. There's no single reply. So, why do they bully someone who's not worth to joke with (with a cold view) – Wade's potential speech could be presented subtle of course.

Heavy. If you'd stay a bit away from comedy in second and third act, it could be extremely horrifying. The ending felt like a copout via irony; no shame, many did so in this tough challenge, imo.

If you'd bring it to the end more serious, I can imagine the horror peeps at festivals would praise your stuff. The jokes in first act are great but I suggest you to let it go all evil from then on. That would be such a heavy journey from cool guys bullying the virgin to pure terror.

All those one-liners are partly hard to follow because sometimes you present a tiny reaction from Wade, then you let this dead woman move, which is much more bold action/emotional and should stand out more imo. Good effort. Some points to rethink to let it shine.



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Stumpzian
Posted: June 5th, 2015, 8:34am Report to Moderator
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Would somebody explain the Tom Petty reference.  One of his eighties videos?  If so, I don't remember it.



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JSimon
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aowSGxim_O8

Kind of a famous video back in the day.
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Stumpzian
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Ah, I get it it now, thanks. Never saw this one (wasn't paying attention in the mid-nineties).



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DanC
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I would have preferred Cold Ethyl from Alice Cooper...


Please read my scripts:
http://www.simplyscripts.net/cgi-bin/Blah/Blah.pl?b-series/m-1427564706/

I'm interested in reading animation, horror, sci fy, suspense, fantasy, and anything that is good.  I enjoy writing the same.  Looking to team with anyone!

Thanks
Dan
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JSimon
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I guess I've basically been outed on this already so might as well come clean.

Dustin's idea to make it all in Wade's imagination: brilliant. I would have done that if I had thought of it.

Janet predicted a lot of sex in elevators: lol, I think this was the only one. If you can call it sex!

location: the elevator is in the autopsy room.

I had to have the autopsy room. Wade is not a necrophile. He's inexperienced, and in fact he's afraid of corpses. I wanted to take a page and try to set Wade up as sympathetic and show his evolution from fear of corpses, to curiosity, to growing feelings of erotic obsession. So I needed a set up scene.

The challenge for me was to make something disgusting become borderline erotic. That's hard to do as a writer, and I love a challenge. The story had no larger thematic meaning and is a pretty lame narrative.

Jeff's comments were basically bizarre. The assistants were in their mid 20s, the ME his 40s, and Wade is a 19 yr old intern. Seems about right to me. The description of Wade comes a few lines later because I wanted to bring the reader into the story first. Description is exposition, and I'd rather bring the reader into the story before spooning it out sometimes. It's simply not a rule to do it when the character is introduced, and there is no reason to burden the reader with that stuff too early. The bloody hands on the ME was done for a reason. I wanted to show that Wade is terrified of corpses. The ringing phone that the ME can't answer forces Wade to get closer to the autopsy than he wants. It's a chance to "show" Wade's fear. Why Jeff calls this a "tell" I have no idea. It's simple description. Weird wild stuff.

Anthony, the reason he pulls the emergency stop even though the elevator is stuck is this: he is about to molest the corpse. If the power comes on the elevator will start moving on its own, he does't want that because he is taking it up a notch with exploring the corpse.

Bill, thanks...not sure what you meant about "black eyed girl". She has black coming from her mouth...old blood or something.

Mo, feel free to explain why the first line is "atrocious". No idea why.

Finally, some people mentioned the single line action in the elevator. I don't normally use that method, but what I was trying to do here was create the perception of the time involved in the scene. For example, Wade rips himself away from the corpse and sits on the floor. He goes back to the corpse, but only after a long moment. I wanted the writing itself to convey that. There are different ways to skin the cat of a screenplay and create the effect you want(unless you're a rules guy). I encourage people to explore some of these. When I read how you guys handle things in different scenes I often learn from it, so I encourage you to continue to explore.

Great reviews and thanks! Much useful feedback. Not surprising considering how high the quality of the OWC stories that I read were.
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Reef Dreamer
Posted: June 6th, 2015, 4:45pm Report to Moderator
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Hi JS/Kev,

Black eyed girl - fair point. Not. A balck eyed girl in sight. Classic quick OWC review

All the best


My scripts  HERE

The Elevator Most Belonging To Alice - Semi Final Bluecat, Runner Up Nashville
Inner Journey - Page Awards Finalist - Bluecat semi final
Grieving Spell - winner - London Film Awards.  Third - Honolulu
Ultimate Weapon - Fresh Voices - second place
IMDb link... http://www.imdb.com/name/nm7062725/?ref_=tt_ov_wr
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Dreamscale
Posted: June 6th, 2015, 6:06pm Report to Moderator
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You know when someone mentions my name and calls attention to something I said, I'll do my best to respond, so here goes...


Quoted from JSimon
Jeff's comments were basically bizarre.


Sorry, Kevin, if you found my feedback to be "bizarre".  Let's see if I cna clear them up for you.


Quoted from JSimon
The assistants were in their mid 20s, the ME his 40s, and Wade is a 19 yr old intern. Seems about right to me.


As for the character's ages, as I said quite clearly. it didn't make sense to me.  I have no problem with the ME being in his 40's.  The assistants being in their "mid 20s" is fine, also, as that says their most likely grad students, getting ready to be full fledge doctors.  The problem is your main character, Wade, who is 19.  At 19, he would most likely be a Sophmore in college, with no medical training and no reason that I can see to be "working" in a "Coroner's Building", assisting is some way while actual autopsies are going on.  It's your story, so you go right ahead with having your characters being any age you want them to be.  For me, it doesn't make much sense.


Quoted from JSimon
The description of Wade comes a few lines later because I wanted to bring the reader into the story first. Description is exposition, and I'd rather bring the reader into the story before spooning it out sometimes. It's simply not a rule to do it when the character is introduced, and there is no reason to burden the reader with that stuff too early.


Your comments about character description are actually what's bizarre.  And it's funny, how once again, you feel compelled to use the word "rule".

So, for the first half of the page, we know Wade is 19, but we don't have a clue what he looks like, even though he's the center of attention right out of the gate in your very first passage.

Then, in a passage beginning with "they", even though "they" are not all together, or even close, as far as I can tell, you decide to tell us Wade is a "dorky looking kid" and then you infer he resembles "Harry Potter grown up", and finally, that he isn't magic.  At 19, I don't think he could be grown up, could he?  You just called him a kid in the first part of the description.  And why would anyone assume he is magic?  What does that have to do with anything?  If we didn't know Harry Potter had magic abilities, would we assume that by looking at him?  Talk about bizarre, bro...really?

As I said and will always say, intro your characters immediately - it's foolish to describe them later, as we've already seen them and spent time with them.  It's not a burden...trust me...your readers won't have a problem with the writer describing any and all characters when they're first intro'd.


Quoted from JSimon
The bloody hands on the ME was done for a reason. I wanted to show that Wade is terrified of corpses. The ringing phone that the ME can't answer forces Wade to get closer to the autopsy than he wants. It's a chance to "show" Wade's fear. Why Jeff calls this a "tell" I have no idea. It's simple description.


First of all, Kev, it's a "tell" because in order to "show" this, it will be incredibly awkward.

Basically, you have a cell phone, which we don't see, ring in the ME's pocket.  Wade is nowhere near him, based on the very first line in your script.  No one has moved.

Then, you "tell" us that the ME's hands are "dirty with blood and gore", so try and picture this filmed as written...an unseen phone rings...close on the ME's "dirty" hands...ME tells Wade to answer his phone for him (even though he's nowhere near him, while other peeps are)...then Wade "comes near" to answer the phone.  Not only is it a "tell", it's incredibly awkward.


Quoted from JSimon
Weird wild stuff.


Yes, indeed...

Hope this helps you better understand my comments.


To ski or not to ski...that's not even a question.
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Max
Posted: June 6th, 2015, 6:24pm Report to Moderator
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Why do you even need to see the cell phone ring? It rings, the dude says "top left pocket" or something, because that's where it is coming from.


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Dreamscale
Posted: June 6th, 2015, 6:33pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from Max
Why do you even need to see the cell phone ring? It rings, the dude says "top left pocket" or something, because that's where it is coming from.


Who said anything about needing to see the cell phone ring?

How would anyone see it ring if it's in his pocket?


To ski or not to ski...that's not even a question.
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Max
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Quoted from Dreamscale


Who said anything about needing to see the cell phone ring?

How would anyone see it ring if it's in his pocket?


I was just wandering how that tied into your point, you said "basically, we have a phone ring, which we don't see"

Okay, then you follow that with a comment about Wade being ages way.

I don't understand how this ties together.


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Dustin
Posted: June 6th, 2015, 6:37pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from Dreamscale

Who said anything about needing to see the cell phone ring?


You specify that we don't see it.


Quoted from Dreamscale

Basically, you have a cell phone, which we don't see, ring in the ME's pocket.


Why specify that if it doesn't mean that we should see it?


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Max
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Quoted from Dustin


You specify that we don't see it.



Why specify that if it doesn't mean that we should see it?


What Dustin said, lol.



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JSimon
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Wade is an intern, though there's really no need to know that. Pia worked a similar job when she was 16.


Quoted Text
As I said and will always say, intro your characters immediately - it's foolish to describe them later, as we've already seen them and spent time with them


You've just described it as a rule. That's your choice, but it's not a rule, and more importantly it doesn't interfere with the read to do it this way. You can criticize the actual description now, fine, though you did not previously. Your original objection was that it came after the character intro.

See, this is where rules...and you have described it as a rule...get in the way of good writing. Let's say your story is about a poker game with 5 players. You COULD begin by giving accurate descriptions of each character from the outset. But that's tedious to the reader, who is absorbing 5 character descriptions without even knowing anything about the story or whether it interests him. That's often a mistake. Another way to handle that is to mix in a little action with the introductions, but that's not always easy, and it can be contrived, and that also probably violates one of your rules since you want to be able to envision all five of the players from the outset. Trust me, it's tedious to read all these descriptions. Jeff, I will grant that you don't mind. I know you don't. But 99% of readers find that kind of exposition tedious. Especially when it comes before we have been brought into the story...not into the setting, but into the story.

Certainly if I gave the description a page or two later that would be strange. But here it's a matter of lines. I chose to attempt to bring the audience into the situation first, then enhance it the description. I think most readers will find that easier. No one else complained.

The bloody hands are not a tell and it's strange to say so. Bizarre. Really bizarre. The other assistants are busy...hands also dirty. Only Wade is clean-handed and doing nothing. There's no need to "close in" on the ME's hands...we can SEE why he can't answer the phone, his hands are dirty because of what he's doing. And of course Wade comes near to answer the phone, he has to...and this puts him uncomfortably close to the autopsy, which was the point of it. There was nothing unclear in that scene. I honestly can't imagine anyone reading it and not understanding it unless they approached the read intending to not be constructive.

Frankly Jeff, I know you're a bright guy, but those criticisms were all so off base that I can only assume that either you were drinking or you somehow knew the script was mine. Every OWC can be better written and my STORY here is not very impressive at all. But there's nothing in the writing to stop the read, certainly nothing to call it "shit". I mean literally every one of your objections doesn't hold an ounce of water, except maybe the asides, which I purposely put in and some people don't care for.

I have no problem with criticism that's honestly given. When someone forces objections like this I don't consider it honest.
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Dreamscale
Posted: June 6th, 2015, 7:25pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from Dustin
You specify that we don't see it.


Why specify that if it doesn't mean that we should see it?


I'm sorry, I don't follow what you or MAx are trying to say.

If a phone is in someone's pocket, how can anyone see it?  Is that a correct statement?

Nowhere did I say that anyone, including the viewers or readers 'needs" to see it, or should see it.

Picture this in a filmed version...it shouldn't be that difficult.  What am I missing here?  You guys looking to try and attack my comments?  You'll have to try alot harder.



To ski or not to ski...that's not even a question.
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Dreamscale
Posted: June 6th, 2015, 7:28pm Report to Moderator
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Kev, I'm not going to quote your reply or even attempt to respond line by line, because there's just no need.

If you don't get what I'm saying, I'm sorry...just trying to point out a few very obvious things that no one seems to get.

My feedback was honest and was simply pointing out these issues.  It's your script, you write it just how you want to and if you think it's amazing or perfect as written, then you go, bro.

You continue to have to use the word "rule" over and voer in every one of your posts, yet you maintain that I'm the one obsessed with some kind of rules.  It's not me, bro...it's you.

Good job on your script.  It appears to be very popular and that's what counts, in my book.


To ski or not to ski...that's not even a question.

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Max
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Nobody is attacking you Dreamscale, that's parro talk.  I guess I'll just have to try and explain myself again, Dustin spotted the same thing I did as well.

Attack the post, not the poster, that's what I say.


Quoted Text
First of all, Kev, it's a "tell" because in order to "show" this, it will be incredibly awkward.

Basically, you have a cell phone, which we don't see, ring in the ME's pocket.  Wade is nowhere near him, based on the very first line in your script.  No one has moved.

Then, you "tell" us that the ME's hands are "dirty with blood and gore", so try and picture this filmed as written...an unseen phone rings...close on the ME's "dirty" hands...ME tells Wade to answer his phone for him (even though he's nowhere near him, while other peeps are)...then Wade "comes near" to answer the phone.  Not only is it a "tell", it's incredibly awkward.


The first bold bit struck me as odd. You mention that we can't see the cell phone, okay? I'm not sure how that's relevant to anything, then you follow up that statement with a comment about Wade being too far away.  I'm not sure how those things link together, or follow on.

You mention twice that we don't see the phone, again... what is the point you are trying to make here? That it would be awkward to film? Why feel the need to state that we can't see the phone? You say it as if... WE SHOULD be seeing the phone, or that it's awkward because we can't see it.

When I see something which doesn't make sense, I call it out, just like you.  Dustin is another head, right, and he was kind of baffled with that as well.


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Dreamscale
Posted: June 6th, 2015, 7:55pm Report to Moderator
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Max...dude...really?

Awkward to film?  How about awkward to watch?  As in the viewers would be clueless as to what the fuck is going on or why this is being included.

Kevin states why he included this and if that works for you or him, or Dustin, that's great.  It did not work for me at all, and I've tried several times to explain why, using very simple words and what I see as very clear descriptions and reasons.

I've told peeps like you, Max, staight up that you're going to get all sorts of feedback and alot of it, or maybe even most of it, will be downright foolish or incorrect.  When that happens, you simply move on and add a check to memory that this reviewer has no clue what they're talking about.

If that's how you see my feedback here or even in general, then, don't listen to anything I have to say going forward and don't ask me for my advice.  Very simple.

Kev can't do that.  Kev has to continually use the word "rule" in pretty much every post he writes, and he tries to make it seem like i'm the one stuck on some phantom rules.  He also has to continually try and discredit everything I say, as if it's some type of contest on who's the smartest.

You watch when writers are revealed and see if I attack or debate anyone who spoke negatively on my entry.  It won't happen.  It doesn't need to happen.  I'll simply explain what I tried to do and why I wrote it the way I did.

Everyone has an opinion and they're entitled to it.


To ski or not to ski...that's not even a question.
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Max
Posted: June 6th, 2015, 8:01pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from Dreamscale
Max...dude...really?

Awkward to film?  How about awkward to watch?  As in the viewers would be clueless as to what the fuck is going on or why this is being included.

Kevin states why he included this and if that works for you or him, or Dustin, that's great.  It did not work for me at all, and I've tried several times to explain why, using very simple words and what I see as very clear descriptions and reasons.

I've told peeps like you, Max, staight up that you're going to get all sorts of feedback and alot of it, or maybe even most of it, will be downright foolish or incorrect.  When that happens, you simply move on and add a check to memory that this reviewer has no clue what they're talking about.

If that's how you see my feedback here or even in general, then, don't listen to anything I have to say going forward and don't ask me for my advice.  Very simple.

Kev can't do that.  Kev has to continually use the word "rule" in pretty much every post he writes, and he tries to make it seem like i'm the one stuck on some phantom rules.  He also has to continually try and discredit everything I say, as if it's some type of contest on who's the smartest.

You watch when writers are revealed and see if I attack or debate anyone who spoke negatively on my entry.  It won't happen.  It doesn't need to happen.  I'll simply explain what I tried to do and why I wrote it the way I did.

Everyone has an opinion and they're entitled to it.


That's all well and good, but what I'm confused about is why you mentioned twice that the phone can't be seen? Can we just stay on that, I wanted to break down that point you made because I didn't understand what you meant by that.

Is it awkward for a phone to ring while it's in someone's pocket?


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Max
Posted: June 6th, 2015, 8:06pm Report to Moderator
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Maybe you have a point about Wade being across the room, fine.

But there's no problem for me visualizing the phone ringing in the ME's pocket, him turning to Wade and saying "Little help, Wade. Left coat pocket."... while he has blood all over his hands.  You don't even need a CLOSE shot for that, you know how surgeons hold their hands up when they use their back to push open a door? I imagined him with his hands up like that, while looking to Wade and asking for some assistance.

If you can't visualize that, fair enough, that's a different issue you have to contend with. I had no problem picturing what was going on, maybe you need a little more than that.


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Grandma Bear
Posted: June 6th, 2015, 8:12pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from JSimon
Wade is an intern, though there's really no need to know that. Pia worked a similar job when she was 16.

I'm being mentioned again!!!  

Just to clarify, I did indeed work at a large hospital between the ages of 16-18.5. I wasn't near autopsies though. I just bathed people after they died. Bert once called me a corpse washer.

I have no idea how things works in this country, but back in those days in Sweden, when we did haul the dead down to the cooler in the basement, we were never allowed to take them by ourselves, because they do make noise and move on occasion. So, a seasoned nurse would always come along.

As you were.  


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Max
Posted: June 6th, 2015, 8:13pm Report to Moderator
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Are you sure you weren't the inspiration for this script Pia? Maybe the writer knows something we don't eh?


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Dreamscale
Posted: June 6th, 2015, 8:26pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from Max
That's all well and good, but what I'm confused about is why you mentioned twice that the phone can't be seen? Can we just stay on that, I wanted to break down that point you made because I didn't understand what you meant by that.

Is it awkward for a phone to ring while it's in someone's pocket?


OK, Max, I'll play along.  We have a new Triple Crown Winner, and I don't care all that much about the Stanley Cup Championship going on now, so let me try yet again...

Since nothing was said about a phone being in the ME's coat pocket, we cannot know it's there, right.  When it rings, in this large "autopsy room", with 4 characters inside and multiple things going on, how do we know that the "RINGTONE" is coming from the ME's coat pocket?  Does it light up through his coat pocket?  Do we zoom in on his pocket?  Or maybe, we have an animated bubble pop up with an arrow aiming to his coat pocket, and inside that buddle, it reads, "ME's cell phone ringing".  LOL...

Am I being a stickler now?  Yes, because you fucks are asking redonkulous questions, and making me be very specific.

So, after this phantom RINGTONE, the ME is going to have to look at his hands,  which are "dirty with blood and gore", and probably realize all of a sudden he really fucked up by not wearing surgical gloves like every other professional ME would be doing.

If I was Wade over in the corner of the room, and he said to me, "Little help", I'd call back, "What the fuck, asswipe?  Take your fucking gloves off and answer your own phone, you idiot."

If a phone rings that can't be seen, and no one knows where it's coming from and for some reason, the person can't answer it himself, yeah, it's gonna play out very awkward and confusing, especially when the person furthest away is expected to answer it for him.  Don't you think?


To ski or not to ski...that's not even a question.
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JSimon
Posted: June 6th, 2015, 8:30pm Report to Moderator
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I can't believe we are arguing this. It's so stupid.

How do we know the phone is in his pocket? Because when it rings the ME tells Wade to answer it, and we see him take it out and answer it.

If I described something that is unfilmable...like for example "there's a phone that we can't see in the ME's pocket", isn't that, oh nos, an unfilmable?

Jeff, all I can say is really? This argument is so foolish. I can only assume you are being stubborn because no one could possibly be confused here.
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Max
Posted: June 6th, 2015, 8:31pm Report to Moderator
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We can know it's there when he turns around and says "Wade, top left pocket".

Audio plays a part here, because the phone would ring like it was in someone's pocket.  The phone rings while in his pocket, he turns to Wade and tells him where the phone is.

So the audience knows straight away it's in his pocket.

I think you're being obtuse now, forget about where everybody is in the room for a second. It's obvious from the dialogue that the phone is in Wade's pocket, the audio would represent that also.

This is really a non-issue here Dreamscale.


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Stumpzian
Posted: June 6th, 2015, 8:34pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from Dreamscale

...you fucks are asking redonkulous questions...


Quite the charmer, he is.



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JSimon
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A cell phone in the ME�s pocket RINGTONES. His hands are
dirty with blood and gore though.
MEDICAL EXAMINER
Little help, Wade. Left coat
pocket.


What is unclear? What is awkward? How could this be said more efficiently?

This is the problem with your reviews, Jeff. What you want me to say is this:

A cell phone ringtones. The ME, whose hands are bloody, motions to Wade
"Little help, Wade. Left coat."


And that would be better, if that's what you want. But really, it's clear enough and anyone would understand it, Had you suggested a change like that I'd be fine and even grateful. But calling a script shit over tiny things like that suggests a nonconstructive approach.

I will admit: I originally did not see your review until after I saw Fen chastise you for calling it shit. So that might have colored by reaction.
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Max
Posted: June 6th, 2015, 8:48pm Report to Moderator
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Visually, we'd understand that the phone was in his pocket... because ME asks Wade to get it from his pocket, and Wade takes it out of his pocket - ON SCREEN.

This is why I'm struggling to understand your criticism Dreamscale, and your attitude isn't helping either.

Calling us "fucks" is not constructive at all, there is simply no need for that.


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JSimon
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Max, the way I corrected it above would actually be better. If that's what Jeff is saying, and I'm not sure, then he is right. Stuff like that is not really a basis for stopping a read or calling a script shit, but if that's the problem Jeff has, then something like my correction would in fact work better.
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Max
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It was perfectly clear without the correction though, to be perfectly honest.

We know it's in his pocket because ME calls him over and says "top left pocket", Wade comes over and takes the phone out.

LOL.

I'm not sure what else I can say about it.  Is there a person who would watch that on screen and be confused as to where the phone came from? Or where the ring came from?

You have to say the phone's in his pocket in the screenplay I imagine... because that's an audio thing, you can't just say "A PHONE RINGS" because that could mean a phone is ringing from anywhere, it could even be on a wall somewhere.

You can't film it ringing in his pocket but it's an audio thing.

A phone ringing in someone's pocket would be muffled and much quieter.


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Dreamscale
Posted: June 6th, 2015, 8:59pm Report to Moderator
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OK, guys, if you don't get it, or don't want to admit to getting it, that's fine and cool.

The more I think about this entire scene, the more i have to wonder about you guys, as there are so many redonkulous things going on, it's actually a little comical.

Why...why...why would anyone hire a guy like Wade to do whatever he's supposed to be doing?  Maybe, he was hired to answer the cell phone calls from the ME and 2 assistants, during all the autopsies going on at once in this Coroner's Building.

Why is there an elevator in the autopsy room and where might it go?  Does everyone in the Coroner's Building ride this elevator?

Why isn't anyone wearing surgivcal gloves during autopsies?  Really?  Do they all take cell phone calls whenever they come in?

Peeps, please..get a grip...or at least try and grab onto anything near you.  This is insanity...or maybe I'm the insane one...or...maybe...in the world of the insane the sane ones are deemed the insane?

Word out...or to the mutha...or whatever.  I guess I'll watch the fucking hockey game and eat some burgers.


To ski or not to ski...that's not even a question.
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Ledbetter
Posted: June 6th, 2015, 10:20pm Report to Moderator
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The whole thing has to do with awkward phrasing.

It could be ton's better.

A "cell phone ringtone" is not correct. I think that is one of the couple of things Jeff is saying here.

Any song or sound on the planet can constitute a ringtone nowadays.

Besides, the writer is missing a great opportunity to inject something good here.

"It's raining men" begins to play from somewhere.

Everyone looks around.

Eric smirks. Points to the ME.
                    
              ERIC
I think it's coming from him.

The ME holds his hands up to show bloody gloves.
               ME
My daughter likes that song.  A little help?

He points to his left coat pocket.

By raising his hands, the character is showing this. The way it's written, the writer is and not following the rules to do so.

If the writer wants us to see it other than in an action (like raising his hands) it needs to be shown as some type of direction or insert.

I do, however find it amusing that there has been such an interest in criticizing Jeff's review, that having gone back and read the thread, seems to be in line with every single review he's ever given.

Jeff gives great advice. If you don't like how it's delivered, you should get a thicker skin.

Shawn.....><
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JSimon
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Shawn, curious why you are commenting here? You've never argued with Jeff? I understand you guys are practically roomies now, but you've argued his reviews in the past and you know it.

His advice is off and I pointed out why. The description was fine as is. And there is no such thing as "correct" when the description is already perfectly clear. Which it is. Frankly, Jeff's objections were so strange here that I don't believe he was giving an honest review. If you're not going to give an honest and objective review, don't review it.

I have already posted a way for it to read better. Shawn's way lengthens it more than I want. The bottom line is there is really nothing wrong the way it is. Could it be a little better some other way? Sure, there are all kinds of stuff like that in every script. But it's perfectly clear as is and uses few lines.
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Ledbetter
Posted: June 6th, 2015, 10:45pm Report to Moderator
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What's wrong with adding lenght if it adds charector?

Look back and see when was the last time I argued with Jeff. It might supprise you.

It supprises me more that you would open a conversation with me asking me to defend my realtionship with Jeff.

It would be like me asking you to defend yours with Pia.

As for  us being roomates, that's just a fucked up way of redirecting the convesation.

I've known Jeff for years. I believe I've known YOU for years as well.

I personally didn't think your advice was all that helpful other than to clarify what was already obvious.

My attempt was to actually show a differient approach in order to expand the action to make it more clear as well as enjoyible.

Shawn.....><
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Dreamscale
Posted: June 6th, 2015, 10:46pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from JSimon
Shawn, curious why you are commenting here? You've never argued with Jeff? I understand you guys are practically roomies now, but you've argued his reviews in the past and you know it.

His advice is off and I pointed out why. The description was fine as is. And there is no such thing as "correct" when the description is already perfectly clear. Which it is. Frankly, Jeff's objections were so strange here that I don't believe he was giving an honest review. If you're not going to give an honest and objective review, don't review it.

I have already posted a way for it to read better. Shawn's way lengthens it more than I want. The bottom line is there is really nothing wrong the way it is. Could it be a little better some other way? Sure, there are all kinds of stuff like that in every script. But it's perfectly clear as is and uses few lines.


It's prefect as is, Kev.  Absolutely flawless.  The entire beautiful setup of tyhe scene is just sopt on.  I can visualize this exaclty as I think you saw it...but...I doubt you saw it at all, based on the very poor visual writing...or non visual writing.

This is an example of exaclty how to set  your scenes and write visually.  Way to go, bro!!  You are officially the King here, nd I for one will try an emulate this.  



To ski or not to ski...that's not even a question.
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Max
Posted: June 6th, 2015, 10:50pm Report to Moderator
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Now you're just being a dick :/

I'm out.


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Ledbetter
Posted: June 6th, 2015, 10:51pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from Max
Now you're just being a dick :/


Who?

Me?

Shawn.....><

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Max
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Jeff.

I'm all for criticism, but I'm not a fan of blatant dick-ish sarcasm. He never treated me like that in our PM's so maybe it's all for show, or maybe he just doesn't see eye to eye with this JSimon.

I'm out for that reason, kids shit.


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Ledbetter
Posted: June 6th, 2015, 11:01pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from Max
Jeff.

I'm all for criticism, but I'm not a fan of blatant dick-ish sarcasm. He never treated me like that in our PM's so maybe it's all for show, or maybe he just doesn't see eye to eye with this JSimon.

I'm out for that reason, kids shit.


It ain't "kids shit" FM. It's critisism.

And if you don't like / want input from Jeff, than simply ask him not to post on your thread.

It's that simple. But when there is an OWC, you are just going to have to take what comes.

Example--

It was mentioned here eariler about Jeff and I argueing and fighting.

We did. Years ago. but you know what. I saw things in his post that rang of truth. No matter how much you don't want to hear some things, there is always something in his reviews that are meant to help.

And yes, he has gone way too far sometimes, just like may of us here.

But you're not going to find a better. more honest person to give advice on how to make your work better.

If you don't like "dick-ish" then stop talking with him. But you'll also miss out.

And just so you know, that fucker in the background in my avatar...is Jeff.

Shawn.....><

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rendevous
Posted: June 6th, 2015, 11:08pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from Ledbetter


And just so you know, that fucker in the background in my avatar...is Jeff.



Are you sure? I thought it was Dr. Phil, sans moustache.

R


Out Of Character - updated


New Used Car

Green

Right Back

The Deuce - OWC - now on STS

Other scripts here
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Ledbetter
Posted: June 6th, 2015, 11:12pm Report to Moderator
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Ren,

Ha!

He does look like Dr. Phil.

Shawn.....><
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JSimon
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My advice on what, Shawn? Your script?
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Ledbetter
Posted: June 6th, 2015, 11:15pm Report to Moderator
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Care to elaborate?

What are you asking?

I always welcome your advice on my scripts?

I always have.

Shawn.....><
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JSimon
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And Shawn, are you going to say with a straight face that Jeff's review of this script was done a spirit of being constructive? Seriously? I know you feel an obligation to defend him, but nothing in his review here is designed to be constructive. The scenes were clear. Suggestions to word better are welcome, but Jeff used this little nitpicks to call the script shit and stop the read. Which I don't care about, I'm just calling it what it is: a review that was begun with malice from the getgo. Let's not kid ourselves, we know full well that was the case.
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JSimon
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Quoted Text
I personally didn't think your advice was all that helpful other than to clarify what was already obvious.
Shawn
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oJOHNNYoNUTSo
Posted: June 6th, 2015, 11:22pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from Ledbetter
He does look like Dr. Phil.


You both look like broke-ass magicians who perform at your local VFW on the weekends.

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JSimon
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Quoted Text
And you decided to throw in the nice, little  aside, "Shit!".  Yeah, shit is right.  I'm out, I'm afraid.


From Jeff's review.

And I admit I saw Fen's reaction before I saw the review. Fen, who I didn't know, had a problem with calling a script shit. And I don't think I'd consider that giving constructive remarks on a script. That kind of comment can post a response from the writer.
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Ledbetter
Posted: June 6th, 2015, 11:32pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from JSimon
And Shawn, are you going to say with a straight face that Jeff's review of this script was done a spirit of being constructive? Seriously? I know you feel an obligation to defend him, but nothing in his review here is designed to be constructive. The scenes were clear. Suggestions to word better are welcome, but Jeff used this little nitpicks to call the script shit and stop the read. Which I don't care about, I'm just calling it what it is: a review that was begun with malice from the getgo. Let's not kid ourselves, we know full well that was the case.


A COMPLETLY straight face my friend.

I see it as constructive and what is wrong with nit-picking anyway?

How many times does a writer mull over a single line when doing a write / rewrite?

Your view of malice must differ from mine.

I converse with Jeff everyday while working on screenplays and I hear ALL THE TIME that such and such is shit.

I hear that this or that scene is written like shit.

I hear that a action line is crap and should be rewritten.

You know what I do?

I do as he recommends.

In just the last few months. Jeff has been brought on board for several high end writing assingnments and has been outstanding using this same dick-ish appraoch.

He was editor to the NANCY GLASS / MTV  - screenplay - TILL DAWN  - NOW OPTIONED script.

He is currenty Co-Writer as well as Co - EP. (that's Executive Producer) on the script we just SOLD to FP / Rhino Films called REPRISAL. Due for release in November.

He is alo Editor / Co-Write on the screenplay CHERNOBYL where we already have interest from THREE production companies when completed in July.

Whether you give a shit about what Jeff has to say, you should understnd that production companies are listening to him and it seems they like what they hear.

Shawn.....><


Revision History (5 edits; 1 reasons shown)
Dreamscale  -  June 7th, 2015, 12:01am
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Dustin
Posted: June 7th, 2015, 4:15am Report to Moderator
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Quoted from Dreamscale


I'm sorry, I don't follow what you or MAx are trying to say.

If a phone is in someone's pocket, how can anyone see it?  Is that a correct statement?



Then why bother making a point of mentioning that the phone is not seen? It's obviously not seen as it is in his pocket... so why did YOU write afterwards that we do not see it. What's the point in stating the obvious?

I may well go back and take apart your other inane comments in a minute.


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LC
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I really enjoyed this story. And, I say good on you for writing something out of the box (that's what writers do).

I was a little let down by the ending - a couple of alternate ideas you got through feedback might make for a better payoff - I like Dustin's idea of it being 'all in his mind' and Richard's idea of it being a prank which is kinda good too. Nonetheless an entertaining and different take on the challenge.



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Scar Tissue Films
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Hi Kev,

"WADE, 19, stands as far away from the autopsy as possible.
Dressed in surgical outfit, he grimaces and avoids watching
when the saw cuts into the rib cage of the corpse."


Interesting opening. I'm going to concentrate on it a little bit to demonstrate some things that could help raise the standard of your writing.

The little scenario you have constructed is very professional. You've introduced a character, revealed a character flaw, introduced his profession, the setting, and hinted at a dramatic question...all in one short paragraph.

Like I say, it's Pro level in its concept.


It's not written to a professional standard, however. I hope that doesn't sound arrogant. I've been spending time improving the quality of my technical writing recently, so I've picked up a few things along the way.


Someone mentioned a book on here: Writing Tools by Roy Peter Clark. Having never even thought about the actual technical side of writing, I bought it.

Tool 2 in the book: Order words for emphasis. Place strong words at the beginning and at the end (of sentences).


Great, great advice for making your writing stronger. It also works with action. Place the strong action up front and centre.

Your script should open with:

"A saw cuts into the ribcage of a corpse".


BANG, straight in. The audience/reader is already hooked.

On film the camera would then TILT UP and there'd be a FOCUS PULL to Wade, we'd see him take a step backwards and reach the wall, or see him desperately PINNED or CLINGING to the wall.

In one shot, we'd know everything about your little scenario. The professional writer orders all the action and the description in the most powerful, and cinematic, way possible.


It's an idea we've discussed before...I intuitively realised it when we were reading Black Swan, but Writing Tools expresses the idea more definitively and succinctly.

Use that tool throughout your scripts, and they will start to shine.  Using just the words you wrote:

WADE, 19, stands as far away from the autopsy as possible.
Dressed in surgical outfit, he grimaces and avoids watching
when the saw cuts into the rib cage of the corpse

"A saw cuts into the rib cage of a corpse. WADE, 19, in surgical outfit, stands as far away from the autopsy as possible and grimaces."

A simple reordering makes it better.

Another tool: Avoid using words like "stands" (walks, runs...all the boring verbs that litter scripts) as much as possible, as well. Make it more kinetic. Have him "RETREAT" from the action, and "COLLIDE" with the wall, or perhaps some equipment. More cinematic, better for sound design, more interesting to read. Or, as mentioned above, have him "pinned" to the wall. Choose stronger action verbs.


Anyway, now I'll actually read the script! Report back later.

Rick

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Scar Tissue Films  -  June 7th, 2015, 5:39am
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Scar Tissue Films
Posted: June 7th, 2015, 6:14am Report to Moderator
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A cell phone in the ME�s pocket RINGTONES. His hands are
dirty with blood and gore though.


That's not well written. The reference to RINGTONES is very awkward. If a specific ringtone is in your mind, add the description. Otherwise, it should just be:

"A cell phone RINGS in the ME's pocket"



Page 2: The stuff with Wade answering the phone is really good.

Page 3: Obscure Tom Petty reference. Would annoy me if watching it, as I didn't get it. Just saying.

Page 4: Some of the writing irritated me a bit. The "After a long...........moment". It really didn't need the pause.

AND: After a while
...again the corpse draws his eye.


Start your sentences with subjects and verbs.

After a while...the corpse draws his eye again.

Is better.

The corpse draws his eye again. Better still...the after a while is implicit in the draws, imo.

Sorry for being pedantic, you're a good writer. These little things stick out more in a generally well written piece, than they do if the whole thing was written like that...if that makes sense. I'm only bringing it up to encourage you to get even tighter with your writing.


Good scenario with the lift. Well set up. Effective.


"Such a sexy pair of gams."

Hated that line.

"What lies beneath the wrapping?"   Unnecessary. Asides are fine, but they need to add something. That one is just too obvious.

I don't get why he pulled the emergency cord...I thought we were stopped????


If it's to try and delay the elevator even further it's not clear and even if it was..it seems to get in the way of the tension. We'll see if it pays off.....

"Such an angel"

Just "An Angel" would be better. More impact.

Page 4-5 The whole progression in the erotic scene was well handled. Felt like you were in control of your writing and of the whole visual scenario. Good stuff.

Page 7...I liked the way you did the 3
                                               4
                                               5

Some of your earlier attempts at this kind of thing felt off. This one didn't. The intangibles of pro screen-writing, eh?

Overall: The ending let it down for me. Sticking with the zombie stuff...I would suggest making Wade more obviously weird and lonely in some way and perhaps play with the idea that it's his love/desire/need for an end to his loneliness that somehow brings her back. Maybe you'd have to give the girl more of a back story (she was murdered by her partner and Wade whilst stroking her hair, says he would never have done something like that before he kisses her...then the lift breaks down and she comes to life).

I know you said you didn't set out to write a story with a theme, but I think that's what's missing a little bit.

Alternatively, there's an interesting story to be told keeping it chained entirely to plausible reality. I was intrigued and wondering where it was all heading.

Potential either way.

Rick.
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JSimon
Posted: June 7th, 2015, 6:30am Report to Moderator
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Excellent notes, Rick, many thanks!

I'm not sure I would want to give the girl a backstory, but everything else you recommended I agree with wholeheartedly. I think if I was to rewrite this I would go with Dustin's idea of showing Wade carrying her corpse at the end, which would suggest the whole thing was in in his mind. I think that ties it up rather neatly.

One thing I was trying to do in the writing in the elevator part was convey a sense of the time. So for example I wanted a sense of long pause before the corpse finally draws his eye again. It makes for awkward prose, but I really wanted the pause clear in screen format. There are other ways to create that sense of pause in prose because I can do some POV inner thought stuff. So I still find it a little tricky as to what works best in screen.

Wade  hit the emergency stop so that when the power comes back on the elevator will not start moving. Now that he is going explore the corpse in more depth he doesn't want the elevator to start moving or the door to open, so he hits the stop.

Thanks again, man! Great stuff.
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Dustin
Posted: June 7th, 2015, 7:31am Report to Moderator
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Action speaks louder...

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He not carrying her away at the end was actually the difference between a consider and recommend from me. I would have given it an 8. It's one of those quirky stories that everyone will get a little chuckle out of. It's gross in a very funny way.

Nice work.


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If you guys are going to hang in this thread, I suggest you check out Ricks' reviews above. That's how it's done. He described my writing here us "not professional standard"...and he gave specific reasons and suggestions how to fix. It was done politely and constructively. It was not used as an excuse to stop reading a basically clearly written story(like the story or not).

I also suggest you guys review my comments on the first page of Jeff's OWC. The writing there is not of high quality. It's loaded with awkwardness and poor phrasings. Which is fine, we should be here to help each other. And there should be a dose of humility because none of us are F Scott Fitzgerald and our OWC entries did not garner a lot of positive response. Humility and helping each other, why should that be hard?
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Scar Tissue Films
Posted: June 8th, 2015, 9:10am Report to Moderator
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Writers can be pretty funny when they start attacking each other.

There's probably a witty, intelligent sitcom to be made about it. A slightly darker version of Frasier.
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rendevous
Posted: June 8th, 2015, 9:10am Report to Moderator
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Away

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Okay Led

My last word, as this is definitely the wrong thread for this.

I meant play the ball, not the man. Dismissing all of someone's work because they made a smartass remark, which was about your partner, not you, was over harsh.

Pick on a script, pick on the guy, pick on his hat, but don't dismiss all his work. That isn't playing fair. And you usually do.

R


Out Of Character - updated


New Used Car

Green

Right Back

The Deuce - OWC - now on STS

Other scripts here
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Quoted Text
pick on his hat


Spilled my coffee, lol
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