In America the Westboro Baptist Church hate everyone who does anything wrong and go as far to call them all fags.

They protest dead soldiers coming home.

On youtube they have a documentary on this church group called "God Hates Fags" it is a very good look into how extreme some people take it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2QRyr3_nCF4

It is sad that people can't just leave them be and Michael Moore is just trying to make money off this hot topic and the amount of activity in this thread proves he's going to make a lot of green.

Quoted from The boy who could fly I thought this movie was about gays not bible belters, seems kinda weird, all the Christians I know support gay rights, in fact the only anti gay people i know are atheists, well one that is Hindu, so i dunno y this movie will be about religion.

I realize you’re speaking only of people you know but the views of the people you know don’t jibe with statistics. Christians are overwhelmingly antigay. There is no question that Christians largely have been outspoken in their contempt for homosexuals.

I am an Atheist and I can assure you that statistically my view represents the majority of Atheists. An Atheist who’s antigay would indeed be a rarity since Atheists themselves are a minority and the overwhelming majority of them support gay rights. Most Atheists are logical, level headed people. Being antigay simply doesn’t hold up to logic.



Breanne

Watching a Michael Moore documentary is like watching an old fashion film. The heroes are heroes and the villians are villians. It's pretty basic black and white. Liberals are Godsends and Conservatives are backwards bastards. And Moore will twist facts and footage until it fits that black and white world he lives in.

I mean that I like Moore's films and as a director he manages to make a good film. However, as documentaries, his films are shady.

This will be the right wing bible belters against gays. We'll have a study of Fred Phelps and a story on Matthew Shepard, or people of the same sort. It'll have Michael Moores same smart-ass tone and of course be a rally call for leftwingers.

It'll be entertaining, but not informative. I mean how informative can it be if you have to sort through Moore's bullshit?

Quoted from Death Monkey Christian argument: Free will. Being gay is a choice, not something you're born with. Thus did God not create gay people, gay people chose to be gay. For the record, I don't believe this, but that's their argument.

This argument is because Christians believe it is a sin. So in our eyes, saying God creates gay people is like saying "God creates murderers" or that he creates liars.

-Chris

You know there are more facets to homophobia then just the Christian community. While alot of disdain extends from Christian beleifs, there are also other religious groups which condem gays as well.

Most christians I know are not literalist but take the bible for what it is: morality stories and ways to show one how to live life. I.E do unto others and basically what we'd call common human decency.

Hate to say it but the bible does condemn gays. Moore was wrong in that statement. I don't agree with it, for obivious reasons, but I'm not going to say it's not in there.

The fact is that this thread is about Moores docu. Like what do gays think of this project?

Am I the only one who thinks nixon tossed this thread out here because he knew it would be a big stink-bomb?

That guy can be such a stinker.

Don't get sucked into some big debate here, Chris -- but if you do -- I think you can make a reasonable case for entrapment haha.

Quoted from bert Am I the only one who thinks nixon tossed this thread out here because he knew it would be a big stink-bomb?

Well, the Rumor Board has been kind of slow lately.

Anyway, just wanted to remind everyone not to drift off-topic. This thread is about Michael Moore's next documentary and the proposed topic, Homophobia. The line between debate and personal attacks is starting to become blurred. So be warned, some posts might disappear.  

Just to get all the facts straight, where exactly does Michael Moore ever say the Bible doesn’t condemn homosexuality? I’ve seen him called a liar in this thread for falsely saying the Bible doesn’t condemn homosexuals. But I haven’t see where he’s actually said that.

Here is the quote from the first post:

“I think it’s a very ripe subject for someone like me to make a movie about. Simply because we are not there yet and it remains one of the last open wounds on our soul that we are not willing to fix yet,” Moore told The Advocate. “There is nowhere in the four Gospels where Jesus uses the word homosexual.’ The right wing has appropriated this guy … and they have used him to attack gays and lesbians, when he never said a single word against people who are homosexual. Anyone who professes to be a Christian and does that is certainly not following the teachings of Jesus Christ.”

Nowhere in this quote does Michael Moore say the Bible doesn’t condemn homosexuals. He only says that Jesus doesn’t say anything about homosexuals in any of the Gospels - which is true. Is there another quote being used in this thread other than the above one?


Breanne

Quoted from Elmer This argument is because Christians believe it is a sin. So in our eyes, saying God creates gay people is like saying "God creates murderers" or that he creates liars. -Chris

I know, that was my point. That the fundamental beliefs of Christianity is that man chooses to sin, and some (most?) Christians consider homosexuality a sin.

Perhaps moreso in North America than Europe because of the puritan history.

Hmm. Interesting thread. I think everything is pretty much covered. But all I want to add is a response to what Doggelbe said in regard to that Homosexuals come in handy when you need to stabalize an over growing population.

I used to think that way too but then I know a lesbian couple who are about to use IVF and donar Sperm to start a family so that theory got blasted to bits.

I'd love to hear your thoughts on that one Chris.

And to the post above regarding sin, Man does not choose sin he is born into sin because of some stupid weak woman who had to pluck forbidden fruit from the tree of knowledge when God told her "NO!, that's bad". Dumb broad! and now we all have to suffer for it.  That is the whole purpose of Jesus existence to absorb our sins if we choose to except his love so we are clensed and so enter the glorious kingdom of heaven- or something like that.

The Bible is one of my all time favourite books and sits on my book shelf between my Buddha graphic novels and Hindu mythology books.

See, even Atheist appreciate the Bible for what it is- a fable.      

Quoted from tonkatough Hmm. Interesting thread. I think everything is pretty much covered. But all I want to add is a response to what Doggelbe said in regard to that Homosexuals come in handy when you need to stabalize an over growing population. I used to think that way too but then I know a lesbian couple who are about to use IVF and donar Sperm to start a family so that theory got blasted to bits.

The theory still stands:  homosexuality can be nature's birth control.  There's nothing natural about IVF.

Getting back to Moore's movie, I'm willing to bet that he casts all conservatives as gay bashers and all liberals are kind, loving and open minded people.  That's his style.


Phil

Christ was a remarkable figure.

He preached tolerance (Love thine enemies, turn the other cheek), told us not to Judge other people because Judgement is God's alone and said to do unto others as we we have them do to ourselves.

These are his Golden Rules and anyone who doesn't follow them has no real reason to call themselves "Christians".

I think it is fairly clear that the tolerant and compassionate Jesus would hardly turn his back on people for the small matter of their sexual orientation.

It is irrelevant what the causes of homosexuality are. Social reasons for becoming homosexual can or may be as potent and irreversible as genetic causes. The only question should be how you should treat them as a Christian or Atheist, and Christ's teachings are fairly easy to follow. Treat them with the same respect as you would want to be treated yourself.

Michael Moore's documentaries have their problems but at least they encourage debate.

It is high time that Jesus as an inspirational figure was rescued from the hands of people and structures whom his teachings reveal he would have little time for.

Quoted from Scar Tissue Films It is high time that Jesus as an inspirational figure was rescued from the hands of people and structures whom his teachings reveal he would have little time for.

Spot on. I think it's laughable that the neocons in America claim to be disciples of Jesus. They and their republican buddies support big business, which is driven by greed and pollutes the planet. Didn't Christ take to whipping some capitalists for conducting business in a temple?

Then you have the rabid fundamentalist Christians claiming to be the true disciples of Christ, again this is laughable. I'm no expert on the Bible, but weren't the Pharisees (who were fundamentalists) the ones who persecuted Christ for being too unorthodox?

Wow, I want to commend everyone who has commented in this thread. You have all brought it full circle. This is one of the best debates I have seen.

As far as Michael Moore's new film idea, I say why not? Keep the lines of debate open and keep people talking. That is the only way we can work towards effective change in ideals as respect to society.

It more than likely won't be on the merits of his film but at least the topic.

Keep talking and debating and soon we might build the foundation for change.

--Kotton

I believe in Faith... and my faith is centered around Christian Ideology. i agree 100% with what decadencefilms said. Christ preached tolerance, he did not hate anyone, not even his enemies. he preached forgiveness.

those who go around condeming other people to hell for their religious beliefs and sexual orientations are going against what Christ himself preached.