Quoted from Sham You're either honest or you're not. There isn't a scale for this sort of thing.

There’s no way to know if a review is honest or not. That’s why I only spoke for myself. You can only judge how constructive it is. “Your script is a piece of shit” is effectively worthless.

Quoted from Sham I truly believe that when Dreamscale called both Memories and Love Is All You Need piles of shit, he was typing exactly what was on his mind the moment he finished reading them. For him to write anything else would be dishonest, so either way, the guy can't seem to catch a break.

How constructive do you consider “Your script is a pile of shit” to be? I don’t find it very constructive.


Breanne


Edit: Just to keep my point clear, I’m not speaking as to the veracity of Dreamscale’s reviews. A script can very well be a piece of shit. I’m speaking directly with regard to the false notion that a review is honest merely by virtue of the fact that it’s harsh.

Quoted from Sham I truly believe that when Dreamscale called both Memories and Love Is All You Need piles of shit, he was typing exactly what was on his mind the moment he finished reading them. For him to write anything else would be dishonest, so either way, the guy can't seem to catch a break.

I am sorry but that is just complete BS.

He might of thought they were a pile of shit but it hardly makes him honest saying so in his review. We are dealing with many different people here in a totally anonymous setting and nobody, nobody has the right to use words like Shit and Turd when describing someones work. These could be new writers, young writers, regulars or newbies. How can anyone call this honest?

He could say he disliked a script without being so pathetic about it, he could be constructive in his criticism at the same time as disliking it. To be honest it would probably be much better if he had just not bothered saying anything.

I cannot understand anybody defending him by calling him honest. That is bollocks my friend. It is not honest, it is just downright rude and insensitive.

GM,

I see we have a very different opinion on the definition of honest.

My definition: Characterized by truth; not false.

Your definition: Marked by or displaying integrity; upright.

We're just gonna have to agree to disagree here. I agree with Dreamscale in thinking those scripts, especially Love Is All You Need, are unsalvageable. I have no advice for the writers because of this.

I just don't see how anyone could have constructive output for a script about skeet-covered potato salad.

Quoted from Sham GM, I see we have a very different opinion on the definition of honest. My definition: Characterized by truth; not false. Your definition: Marked by or displaying integrity; upright. We're just gonna have to agree to disagree here. I agree with Dreamscale in thinking those scripts, especially Love Is All You Need, are unsalvageable. I have no advice for the writers because of this..

No, my definition of honesty is the same as yours. But we happen to live in a world where tact is often used alongside honest.

I think my wife has a big arse today, but I am certainly not gonna tell her she looks like an elephant. I might tell her her arse looks fat however.

If Jeff were being honest he could have just told the truth and said he disliked the script, calling it names is not honest it is just plain rude.

You really think that being honest means calling someone names?

The real point here isn't whether Jeff is being honest or not.  The real point is how he expresses his honesty in this social situation.  Saying you didn't like a script is expressing your honest opinion. Everyone is entitled to an opinion. It is not insulting.   Calling someones script a turd is just plain rude, inflammatory and insulting regardless of how you feel about it.  

I think it was appropriate for him to call it a piece of shit. Absolutely.

Many writers put a lot of effort and time into this challenge and took it very seriously. I am one of them.

So when someone posts a script like Love Is All You Need and gets more readers and comments than others who made an effort, including myself, it's infuriating. This particular writer basically took one big shit on the challenge and nobody seems to care.

And Dreamscale is still the bad guy. It doesn't make sense.

If you don't tell 'em like it is now, they'll just do it again.

Quoted from Sham I think it was appropriate for him to call it a piece of shit. Absolutely. Many writers put a lot of effort and time into this challenge and took it very seriously. I am one of them. So when someone posts a script like Love Is All You Need and gets more readers and comments than others who made an effort, including myself, it's infuriating. This particular writer basically took one big shit on the challenge and nobody seems to care. And Dreamscale is still the bad guy. It doesn't make sense. If you don't tell 'em like it is now, they'll just do it again.

You may think it's appropriate but you are not everyone on this site and you did not write the script.  He isn't talking about your script like that.

Quoted from Sham I think it was appropriate for him to call it a piece of shit. Absolutely. Many writers put a lot of effort and time into this challenge and took it very seriously. I am one of them. So when someone posts a script like Love Is All You Need and gets more readers and comments than others who made an effort, including myself, it's infuriating. This particular writer basically took one big shit on the challenge and nobody seems to care. And Dreamscale is still the bad guy. It doesn't make sense. If you don't tell 'em like it is now, they'll just do it again.

To be honest if that was the only script that Jeff had called names like that then we would not be having this argument. Please do not assume we are just talking about that one script. There are other examples where Jeff could have been honest but instead chose to use hateful language instead.

Nobody, ever has the right to rip into someone elses work like that. It is the first rule of reviewing and if there are people out there that do not understand this simple point then to be honest they should not be reviewing scripts.

In my 18 months of being on this site I have never, ever seen anyone act like this about anybodies work. I am really pissed off about it to be honest. It is not nice to read some of the crap he writes especially when he has just a poor grasp of screenwriting himself and yet feels expert enough to comment on other peoples scripts.

Example.

This is from Jeff's review last week of 'Great White in Great Britain'.

Quoted Text 1)  Opening slug - Not well written at all.  It kind of sets the tone here, and it's not a positive one at that.

That's it, it is not written well. What help is that to anybody? How is it not written well Jeff? You totally neglect to say. And to make things worse, this is the offending slug...

INT./EXT. BOAT OUT AT SEA - NIGHT

Anybody know what is wrong this this? Co's I sure don't.


This is not even one of his hateful reviews, this is just him picking at something without explaining why.

I am not saying that any of us are experts reviewers by any stretch of the imagination but I think on the whole we are honest reviewers without resorting crap like this.

The worst thing is that he is totally incapable of taking it himself and as soon as he feels the pressure on himself he starts crying like a little baby. Unbelievable. How anybody can act in the way he does and not realise what effect his words are having is just hard to believe.

Alright, I get it.

What I don't get is what you guys are trying to accomplish out of this. Do you want Dreamscale banned? Do you want him to leave voluntarily? Or do you just want an apology?

I'm not really seeing an end here.

I don't want to see Jeff banned.  I would honestly like him to take the feedback on board and do what he can to improve his reviews.  

I don't want to see anybody banned. Jeff has had a really active role in the site of late and has been helping to drive things like Script Club. I am sure we can get passed this and move on. But it is a problem and does need addressing before we can.

Quoted from Sham So when someone posts a script like Love Is All You Need and gets more readers and comments than others who made an effort, including myself, it's infuriating. This particular writer basically took one big shit on the challenge and nobody seems to care.

I've never had these kind of reviews.  I can see what all the fuss is about.

For myself, my first review from Dreamscale was very harsh and my most recent review was less harsh.  But still not constructive.  I guess I maybe improving but I blame myself this time as I did my script in four hours, just before the deadline, and really was clutching at straws.  So can't blame the guy.

When Dreamscale likes one of my scripts, I'm sure the rest of the world won't.  Who knows?

All I can say is that if I didn't ignore Dreamscale in the beginning and took it to heart, I probably would have left.  And many of the new writers in this competition may never come back again.

Sigh...I've read 14 of these, and just as I was thinking, "Right, over halfway there, 11 more to go", Don posts more?! How many of these things are there, anyway?

Quoted from JonnyBoy Sigh...I've read 14 of these, and just as I was thinking, "Right, over halfway there, 11 more to go", Don posts more?! How many of these things are there, anyway?

He said "30-ish", so it should be just about done if that wasn't it.

Ok. For some reason, I am GOING to complete my mission to read, review and rank all of the OWC scripts. It can be done. I've done 15 so far...only another 14 to go...(sigh).