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Not to take this off-topic but this does feel like an amateur script. Not amateur in the sense of being bad, but it feels like the type of script someone would write to break into Hollywood.
I've always been trying to pinpoint other scripts that have that feel, too, but it's tough. The only other one I've thought of, in that way (which is odd because the guy who wrote it had been produced for about a decade), is "Joy Ride".
"Joy Ride" feels just like "The Disciple Program", but I can't put my finger on why. It's one of those unexplainable things.
There are times when my scripts are written not to be understood
See, it's your fault. I know the way you write, Michael and when I read one of "those" scripts, I don't even attempt to give advice to the author because I have no idea where to begin.
I was just saying its bad advice to not listen to those who don't understand your script, if you're trying to write a script you want to have understood.
Read the first 34 of this today. The writing is a bit novelistic at times, but it doesn't detract from the read. I'll admit, I like it thus far. It's driving me forward. I want to know what this big conspiracy is. Why jocelyn had to die. What they're going to do with Roger.
It's working. I just feel like I've seen this before and I'm hoping there's something fresh waiting for me.
James, I think you'll find the whole script familiar. It's a storyline that's been repeated often since at least the 1960s. It has its own twist to it, nothing too shocking, but one can see where the script is marketable.
Also, I have to say, I've read a lot of scripts that last 6 months that actually have been optioned, and it's amazing how many of them are not good. I also read one of the Nichols winners a few weeks ago, and this actually happened in the middle of the script: they played whiffle ball, then cards...then chess! I swear, it really happened that way.
I read a script this morning that I had to review and it was so bad I feel like a need a shower. If we ever wish to kill Jeff, all we have to do is send a copy. This thing was written as though passive writing was actually the goal of writing a script.
What I conclude from all this is that it's damn hard to write a good script. That's why it takes teams of pro writers to create scripts in Hollywood.
Compared to many of these, Disciple was a real pleasure to read.
See, it's your fault. I know the way you write, Michael and when I read one of "those" scripts, I don't even attempt to give advice to the author because I have no idea where to begin.
I was just saying its bad advice to not listen to those who don't understand your script, if you're trying to write a script you want to have understood.
I think if you watch something like Un Chien Andalou then you will get where Thrice comes from...
I don't think Dali would have thought twice if someone said they didn't understand the film and as a matter of fact he would probably ignore anyone that insisted he should should make it more "understandable". It's his vision, his art -- scripts like Thrice are mine...
As far as your second comment goes, yep that makes sense. Yet, again, you should be careful about the advice you take -- everyone probably has their own way of making that decision. You shouldn't just implement every suggestion people make, unless it's from people paying you to write the script.
EDIT: Changed the link because the other one did have an odd soundtrack.
Sorry, two minutes and I'm out. wtf was that idiotic soundtrack added by some brazilian "artist" in 2009? Kept waiting for my phone to ring after I turned it off. Expecting a little girls voice on the other line to say... "seven days."
It was an assigned script, I think it's been optioned, and it was horribly written. I would have rather have finished yours, believe me! The script I was referring to was not from anyone here.
I will finish yours tomorrow, promise. Burned out on reading at the moment.
I've always been trying to pinpoint other scripts that have that feel, too, but it's tough. The only other one I've thought of, in that way (which is odd because the guy who wrote it had been produced for about a decade), is "Joy Ride".
"Joy Ride" feels just like "The Disciple Program", but I can't put my finger on why. It's one of those unexplainable things.
I enjoyed Joy Ride despite the fact that it made very little sense. It had a nice style and (for the most part) likable characters. But when you really break down the plot you realize how there's basically a giant canyon of bizarre logic that tries to connect point A to point Z.
I've only read the first 10 pages of Disciple, so I can't really compare it yet. What I will say is I wasn't amazed with those first 10. It's written in such a way that at times it feels overwritten but maintains a good pace and flow. I thought it was a decent hook, that's all. I'm still looking forward to finishing it at some point (I've got a queue to fulfill) to see what about it generated such a buzz.
Well, I've been done with "The Disciple Program" for a few days and it has lots of story-related flaws. It's got lots of payoffs, but they take so long to develop that it almost doesn't matter.
But, the biggest thing is the dialogue. This guy, who basically ran through the thesaurus on his prose, couldn't do dialogue to save his life. If that were improved, I may have enjoyed this more, but it did get weaker as it went along.
Blonde, what do you think of my idea for that script? To move the reveal about the chip in his head up to about that half way point?
I think that solves the drag in middle issue. After that, the stakes in every scene will be ramped up dramatically. He knows he could snap any time.
**OBVIOUS SPOILERS**
It definitely would've changed the last half of the script, but not necessarily improved. It should have been moved there (for pacing purposes) but you run the risk of a... I can't think of the word. Basically, the audience might feel cheated with that thought going on. They'd wonder why they don't "activate" him to kill himself or anything like that, that they suggest he do to himself at the end, with the doctor.
The guy painted himself into a corner when he made the main character a "defective" Disciple. Right there, you lose ALL tension. But, for some reason, his psychotic rampage leads him to the last remaining Disciple (if I got that right. That Meachem guy) even though he knows it's not the Disciple's fault he kills people.
Anyway, the most annoying thing was the random jump in the middle of the story to the two battling CIA guys. We introduce them once then basically leave them alone for 40-50 pages. Then, we bring them back to just kill them (or him, rather)?
Like I said, I think it gets weaker as it goes along and they hardly made any use out of the drone concept which, while Carson suggested a good but flawed idea, should have had a little more promenance than just showing up once with about 10 pages left in the script.
I think I'd give it roughly 6.5-7/10 for his good prose, the beginnings of a good idea but a not-so good execution and poor dialogue.
I don't think the audience would feel cheated because no one knows how they get the signal to activate him. So he becomes terrified of phones, strangers, electronic signals, afraid they will activate him as an assassin. We don't know and he doesn't know that the chip was jarred loose, so cannot be activated. I think it would add tension to everything he does.
I read a lot of reviews on Scriptshadow, half for, half against. That is the first I've hear anyone criticize the dialogue, however. As for prose, well, most liked it, but as it doesn't get in the film, I really don't care one way or the other, as long as I can follow the story.
The problem most people had was: plot points that didn't make complete sense; a static middle; and an overly familiar premise.
Carson recognized the familiar premise, but that it was set apart because the dialogue was so good.
I just know I've read a ton of scripts the last 6 months, and most have major problems. This one holds up well by comparison.
I understand what you're saying and I agree, but what I meant is that when we find out he couldn't be activated, it felt all for nought. It would feel like a cheat or a cop out. At least, I think so.
I'm very particular about my dialogue. Subtext is all well and good (and this was over-saturated with it in parts and under, in others) but if it's not interesting, it may as well not be there at all.
As for the prose, it painted a good enough picture without being too flowery and very little of it couldn't be filmed. Of course, had he used wrylies instead of action lines for his dialogue deliveries, he could've saved a solid 3-5 pages, but people don't really like wrylies.
It mostly made sense but it took so LONG to develop, it just didn't work. The story could get along fine without adding or cutting anything. All he'd need to do is re-arrange the order of some scenes and I think it'd work out.
I disagree strongly with that, but I'm not the one people send scripts to, to be reviewed.
It does. I think anybody should be able to see WHY it was picked up. Mostly because the problems is has can be fixed relatively easily.
This script discouraged me when I heard everyone praising the first act. I was not impressed by it at all. Then when he went on the road I started to get hooked. I really loved how the payoff is so obvious that you don't even consider it.
By the end, it was just one payoff after another, so I do agree that they could be spread out a little more.
Kevin, do you think Norman could be the one to tell him he's been bugged? If his wife knew, then maybe Norman would too.
'Artist' is not a term you should use to refer to yourself. Let others, and your work, do it for you.
Cin, that makes sense. It should definitely come around that point in the story. Though I have to admit, I think the whole Norman thing has to be replaced. It felt to me like the writer just didn't have an idea what to do next. I mean how did his wife figure this thing out, and how did she find out about Norman? And then how did she FIND "off the grid" Norman? Apparently the government can't find him, but out little psychologist can. And then it turns out the government really CAN find him. This part of the story dragged and made little sense. Even the fact that Norman wouldn't tell him anything until they slept on things. I hate it when writers do that.
I'll tell you, at the moment I am firmly convinced that to sell a spec script, as an unknown writer, you should do two things: first, have an unforgettable first act, so first 25 pages. I mean, to the point where should almost look at it is if that's your script. If you've wowed the reader by the end of the first act, you're in great shape. If not, you're dead in the water with almost no chance.
The second thing I think you should have is a big turn at the midpoint. Doesn't matter if it's a high or low, just something that really wakes the reader up. A big turn here will drive the reader right through the dreaded second half of second act. Then as long as your ending doesn't stink, you've sold a script!
Disciple did not have that big turn at the midpoint, but it could. Imagine if you have a chip in your head that could turn on and make you an assassin at any moment? And you have no idea how the signal will come. The phone, the tv, the car radio...everything becomes dangerous. Meanwhile, you're in a race to get to the people who control that signal. All the while you're paranoid about everything around you that could carry the signal. And as you don't know when you might suddenly become a killer, other things disturb you too. Things almost become opposite of norm: let's say you pick up a hitchhiker. In the regular movie scenario, we wonder if the hitchhiker is a killer. But now this guy has to wonder if HE will suddenly become a killer. Innocent people around him are in danger, and this terrorizes him, fills every scene with automatic conflict and tension.
That's the script he should have done!
I don't really understand Blonde's perception that this story started slow. I think the success of this script is due to the fact that it starts fast. A lot happens in the opening act. This guy sold his script based on the opening act(or at least used the script to launch a career). IMO.
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