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Silver, I have no problem with your defense of Jeff. I felt that way when I was a new writer too, and I will always say Jeff helped me a lot, and I remain grateful.
As for his view of screenwriting or scripts, I don't doubt that he is generally sincere in his comments. He calls it how he sees it.
He has no right or basis to doubt the sincerity of my comments, however. I have always called it how I see it, even when it rubs some the wrong way. I hope my comments prove useful to the writer, and that's my only goal when I start a review.
And keep in mind, Silver: I asked Jeff if he could name a single pro spec script that he considers to be a good model for screenwriting. A single well written pro script. He could not name one. Digest that a bit when you form conclusions about his ability as a "tried and true script mechanic". Every Don needs a Sancho.
The proof is always in the pudding. Any chance you'd PM me and tell me what your OWC script is? I'd love to have a look.
If Jeff (I hope you don't mind me calling you that) tells me that my formatting, technical writing style and that there are too many orphans then I'm going to listen to him. I've already started writing another Short (although it's moving slowly) where I'm trying my hardest to not use orphans and to avoid any passive language at all.
Pretty much much I'm trying to write something that technically, Jeff would approve of. Since if you can impress the toughest critic, then the others should be easier.
BUT...
If Kevin were to tell me my story structure sucked, that the characters were weak and that there was nothing to keep the story interesting then I'd obviously listen to him as well. I've been slowly writing out structures and beat sheets to try and organize my stories better so my screenplay flows nicely and is interesting. He's right, in a Film class I took, all we did was examine story elements and motifs and stuff like that. It is important for creation.
Why not try and write a screenplay that attempts to impress both kinds of critics? In the end is that not the best thing to do?
Then again, I have lot's to learn. Pretty much EVERYTHING to learn, since I basically knew nothing coming in here. But I already I feel I've learned a lot and hopefully I can apply it.
Anyways, I've only reviewed about 5 or 6 and have glanced at about 12. I will get to more, but I'm a student and have a lot of other work and reading I have to keep up with! It is thousands of dollars at stake!
Sorry for being long winded, I know I'm new and no one will probably read this and my opinion doesn't matter.
But just take whatever you can get, and use it as you may.
EDIT:// For what it's worth, unfortunately, a lot of the veterans reviews do sway me from reading the entries or not. But usually only if the review says that they didn't meet the challenge parameters.
A bad writer, trying to become decent...
Thank you for all who put up with my work and try and help me improve.
Kevin and Jeff BOTH raise valid points, I think. Being on SS you're gonna find a lot of new writers who don't know much about format and the like. Jeff's comments, although they can come off harsh, are usually spot on as far as proper format goes, passive writing, orphans, etc. So that kind of advice is quite useful, even, I think, to a seasoned writer. I feel everyone needs to go back to school now and then. Most of his comments are basically about readability. If it doesn't read well, or is tedious, then something needs to be said, especially to a newbie.
Kevin, I think couldn't be more right about reading pro scripts. I know it was the first thing I did when I first joined. I wanted to see how the pros did it. Sound advice as well.
I guess I'm on a fence about a lot of things. I could see both points and take them for what they are, disregard what I don't agree with and keep what I think is useful. Either way it helps me to become a better writer.
That's usually my mantra. I'll read them, but if most comments take care of most of what I have to say, my words will be few, if any. That said, there's 50 some short scripts. And I won't say to any one of the writers "you're a bad writer" or "looks like this was rushed" (*a complete dull thing to say in a OWC- Most are written in less than a week, I would think!) and everyone, even the SS seasoned such as myself wiill miss a few things here and there. I'm no Mr Perfecto in OWCs.. In fact, when I rewrite my thing, I'm going to drop the last three pages and go for another angle, so to speak.
However, if there's anything, good or bad that other folks didn't mention or mention enough, by all means bring up the subject. Or even if you like something that most seem to not like or the other way around.
It's a OWC. It should discourage nobody.
I think a week is a long time for a 10 page script. I could write the first draft on day 1. Then a draft per day after that. Every single short I've listed here was written in 24 hours. Is that rushing? I suppose it is... but a whole week? For one little short? Isn't this a site for writers?
Seb, of course you can call me Jeff. Not sure what your name is, BTW.
And, once again, for the record, I do not disagree with Kevin, I just disagree with the way he states his point over and over and doesn't seem to understand what my point is.
My point is simple - nothing is perfect and nothing is sacred. It doesn't matter what it is or who did it - there will be flaws and there will be better ways to go about it.
Just because a Pro does something, it doesn't mean it's gospel and it doesn't mean anyone and everyone can't critique it and knock it. Hell, look at all the varying opinions on movies. Look how many big budget movies are downright terrible and downright critical and financial disasters.
You can read all the Pro scripts you want to and you can either agree or disagree with the masses about the level of expertise employed. Those who blindly follow whatever seems to be cool or popular at the moment are doing themselves a huge disfavor.
Kevin likes to say that I am deeply rooted in archaic practices and that I say what I say because of that. This isn't true at all. There are numerous things/practices/rules that I don't adhere to because I've made a choice of what works and why it works and because of that, that's why I do what I do and say what I say. This opinion does not change based on what just sold and what some smartass golden children decide is the new fad.
The other issue with Kevin's position is that he's constantly looking for what he calls "superior quality" in story, character, etc. The problem is that these things rarely come around and it's highly unlikely the vast majority of amateur writers and even Pro writers can meet these requirements.
It is blantantly obvious by watching any number of random movies that superior story, characters and whatever else he stresses are met, because most movies SUCK ass on these fronts.
But, anyone who wants to, can become a good writer. And once you're a good writer, everything else comes much easier, and your works will attract more peeps and be much easier reads. You have to know what makes a good writer though and if no one tells you, how are you supposed to know?
I've had numerous peeps tell me that because no one else brought up a glaring error in their writing, it eitehr doesn't matter or what I'm saying is incorrect. Really? Because you don't realize what's wrong, it means it isn't wrong? Incorrect.
If someone doesn't love your story, your hook, your characters or whatever, at least they'll be able to get through your script easily and if nothing else, they'll know you have passion for writing and want to put your best foot forward.
We've all heard this over and over and it's 100% true - you can have the best, most unbeleivable story every created, but if no one will read it, no one will ever know.
Theory breaks down immediately bro. Kev wouldn't qualify to wear the denim cutoffs cos he follows the Pats
Your Doppleganger is Shawn (Ledbetter).
Maybe that's whay Kevin and I are always gong at it...I despise the Pats, as I despise all Boston teams - they're all too damn good every year!!!! ARGH!!!
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