Hey Michael,

Got to finish the draft that’s posted on the first thread.

Spoilers!

When the key to the basement was mentioned, had an inkling that bumford was up to no good. Thought he was murderer not the later.

Interesting in that it’s a family business.

Enjoyed the twist.

Personally, I don’t see any script problems except maybe to find better scene environments to reduce the script budget like diner, murders, etc. But that’s script production stuff not screenwriting. I enjoy you’re writing overall.  

Hope this helps,

Gabe

Quoted Text Hey Michael, Got to finish the draft that’s posted on the first thread. Spoilers! When the key to the basement was mentioned, had an inkling that bumford was up to no good. Thought he was murderer not the later. Interesting in that it’s a family business. Enjoyed the twist. Personally, I don’t see any script problems except maybe to find better scene environments to reduce the script budget like diner, murders, etc. But that’s script production stuff not screenwriting. I enjoy you’re writing overall.   Hope this helps, Gabe

Thanks a lot for checking out the script, Gabe! Glad you enjoyed it!

-- Michael

Quoted Text Up to page 20.  Enjoying it very much so far.  I unfortunately saw that there is a big twist halfway through while scrolling through the critiques, but I don't know what it is.  Will read more tomorrow and am looking forward to this reveal

Cool, man. Hope you enjoy it.

-- Michael

Just laughed on page 49 when the wife blurts out, sorry he didn't tip you.  Good way to temper the tenseness with levity that still isn't all that levity inducing.

Just got to the big twist.  Of course!  Why would Stella kill Matilda.  This twist was good.  

Quoted Text Just laughed on page 49 when the wife blurts out, sorry he didn't tip you.  Good way to temper the tenseness with levity that still isn't all that levity inducing. Just got to the big twist.  Of course!  Why would Stella kill Matilda.  This twist was good.

Cool man, glad you're liking it so far. I like SOME comedy in my horror, whether it's in something I write or something I watch... when it's appropriate, of course. I think it can work well, especially in fun, good old fashioned slashers.

Yeah, going in knowing there's a twist can kinda kill the surprise element a little bit, but glad you liked it.

-- Michael

So I just finished.  This was tough to stop reading.  I dig your style.  I'm glad there was a protagonist because a third of the way through, I was starting to think there was nobody to root for.

Regarding their basement...I wish I hadn't seen some of the critiques while scrolling down because I had the feeling it was a house of horrors.  That said, I thought they were going to be shown to be white supremacists, so the fact that they were sexually enslaving women to be sold on the dark web still threw me for a loop.

I really like Stella's character.  Her motivations are pure, simple and well understood.

I also liked the use of Oscar and Matilda as the angel and devil on her shoulder.  It helped build the suspense and keep her character engaged with the reality facing her.  I almost shudder to say that without Oscar's presence in her life, she might not have survived.  Having Oscar as a husband may have toughened her up to survive an ordeal like this one.

I also like that Hardley was able to redeem himself.  Yeah he's a bit of a simpleton but isn't that the secondary job of being a sheriff.

I felt this could almost be under the rubric of suspense rather than horror because none of this scared me per se.  It is bloody, yes, but not scary.  Then again, Mulholland Drive scares me more than any movie I've ever seen, so I'm not sure I'm scared in the conventional ways.

Overall, I really dug the script and enjoyed the epilogue as well.

Quoted Text So I just finished.  This was tough to stop reading.  I dig your style.  I'm glad there was a protagonist because a third of the way through, I was starting to think there was nobody to root for.

That's good to hear (the tough to stop reading part). As for starting think there was nobody to root for a third of the way in, that might be something to work on. Rather than tell the audience who to root for, my intention was to have them choose who to root for... I wanted to build empathy for Stella yet kinda have the audience root for Buford and his family... for at least 10-15 pages. Yet, I wanted a lot of the characters to be unlikable so that, like in traditional slasher movies, you kind of almost want them to die or, in this case, kinda don't mind that they're already dead. I guess I was trying to play off the "Joker" type vibe of empathizing for the character but being frightened of them at the same time as the character continues to spiral.

Quoted Text Regarding their basement...I wish I hadn't seen some of the critiques while scrolling down because I had the feeling it was a house of horrors.  That said, I thought they were going to be shown to be white supremacists, so the fact that they were sexually enslaving women to be sold on the dark web still threw me for a loop.

This got me thinking that maybe I should show some racism on Buford's part... maybe when they're considering selling Stella off (because of her condition). Maybe he sees her skin color as a drawback, his wife thinking that he's talking about purely her condition.

Quoted Text I really like Stella's character.  Her motivations are pure, simple and well understood.

Thanks. She's not a very joyful character, but I hope people can identify with hers somewhat.

Quoted Text I also liked the use of Oscar and Matilda as the angel and devil on her shoulder.  It helped build the suspense and keep her character engaged with the reality facing her.  I almost shudder to say that without Oscar's presence in her life, she might not have survived.  Having Oscar as a husband may have toughened her up to survive an ordeal like this one.

Very true. Even if Stella didn't kill Oscar at the beginning, it's highly possible that the same thing would have happened at the diner. But, then again, Stella's in a psychotic fog during her shift, causing her to be a shitty waiter kinda, which sort of sets Buford off even more. Though, after not getting another job (and killing the people at the employment agency), it's still probably that he would've snapped.

Quoted Text I also like that Hardley was able to redeem himself.  Yeah he's a bit of a simpleton but isn't that the secondary job of being a sheriff.

Yeah, I didn't want everything to be so black and white. I had him act racist out of frustration (and he's somewhat of a homophobe). It's not until his daughter dies that he regrets disowning her. And it's not until that he finds out that it wasn't Stella that he kinda lets go of his racist thoughts -- he's not racist per se, but he's said some dumb racist shit out of anger. Part of that probably comes from the conservative town he's from.

Quoted Text I felt this could almost be under the rubric of suspense rather than horror because none of this scared me per se.  It is bloody, yes, but not scary.  Then again, Mulholland Drive scares me more than any movie I've ever seen, so I'm not sure I'm scared in the conventional ways.

I still think it's definitely horror -- in the vein of movies like "Don't Breathe", "You're Next", "Green Room" and a little bit of "Devil's Rejects". It's not huge on scares like, "Halloween" or like in paranormal flicks and possession flicks. It's more dependent on tense moments (with the occasional jump scare) rather than all out scares. And yes, the violence and gore definitely makes this horror IMO.

Quoted Text Overall, I really dug the script and enjoyed the epilogue as well.

Thanks man, I really appreciate the read and the comments.

-- Michael

I wouldn't take my "nobody to root for" comment to heart.  It's because of the skill of the implementation of the twist in uprooting our expectations over which character is the killer that I wasn't quite sure whether I should root for Stella.  Once the obviousness of the deviance of Buford became clear, I could sit back and root for Stella to get out of this messy evening.  And again, it never made sense why Stella would kill Matilda, so your set up in creating the whole bloody affair has a great payoff when we realize perhaps our own expectations or subtle racist inclinations lead us to believe it must be Stella, when in fact, this makes no logical sense, even with her having killed her husband in self-defense.  So again, I think you did a good job in establishing the protagonist.  

Also, I've actually never seen those movies you referenced as horror.  When it comes to horror, I generally have just seen the classics, so I'm clearly no authority on what qualifies as horror.  I just know that my interest never waned but I wasn't scared so much as I was on an adrenaline rush reading this, hoping Stella would get to avenge her lover and save her own life.

Quoted Text I wouldn't take my "nobody to root for" comment to heart.  It's because of the skill of the implementation of the twist in uprooting our expectations over which character is the killer that I wasn't quite sure whether I should root for Stella.  Once the obviousness of the deviance of Buford became clear, I could sit back and root for Stella to get out of this messy evening.  And again, it never made sense why Stella would kill Matilda, so your set up in creating the whole bloody affair has a great payoff when we realize perhaps our own expectations or subtle racist inclinations lead us to believe it must be Stella, when in fact, this makes no logical sense, even with her having killed her husband in self-defense.  So again, I think you did a good job in establishing the protagonist.

Yes! That was one of my goals... not to necessarily expose the audience as subtle racists lol. But to kinda use race juuuust a little bit as a subtle device, affecting the audience's perceptions of the characters. I didn't want to use race as a main theme because it's just too obvious and it's been done to death. Rather than making racism and homophobia the major, over-arching theme, I wanted to sprinkle it in just a bit to affect the perceptions of the characters towards each other as well as OUR perceptions of the characters as the story unfolds. I personally hate when a movie continuously tries to beat me over the head with some sort of obvious lesson.

When Sheriff Hardley loses his daughter (we don't know why exactly their relationship is strained early on), he says something racist when he suspects Stella as the killer. And we can identify with his anger, almost looking past that subtle little racist comment he says (about the color of his daughter's car). Meanwhile, somewhat subliminally, there's a part of us, the audience, that says, "Well, that racist comment was uncalled for", so even though we're led to believe that Stella may have killed all those people at the diner, there's a part of us defending her because of that subtle little racist line. So, we don't lose her completely. Now, as a person of color myself who's dealt with some racist cops before (I was roughed up pretty good for looking like someone else), there's the "minority" portion of the audience that can totally relate to her. And there's a preconceived notion with cops sometimes being racist -- this has been an issue for years. So that also prevents us from completely rooting against Stella. But yet somehow, we're identifying with Sheriff Hardley's pain and anger. If that makes any sense...

-- Michael

I'll go in random order by what I want to write about first...

What was my favorite thing: The pacing of your action and suspense. From the initial shootout at the Blumpkin household and on I was in the zone and couldn't stop reading. Slam dunk.

Before that point, I almost stopped reading. Glad I didn't, but the first twenty pages or so were my least favorite of the script. She kills her abusive husband, but it doesn't feel very powerful. I think it's a brutal scene, but I wished the brutality was a bit more emotional. I'm assuming all this gore and sex is for fulfilling niche expectations? It's not a niche I know very well, so I'm assuming this first part is to quench your niche's thirst before you start hitting your stride.

The twists were fantastic throughout. You didn't M. Night Shyamalan me, so I appreciate that. You used them really effectively, and mixed perfectly with great action, I think that's what helps make this script so entertaining to read. It's fun for all the right reasons.

My input: If you are interested in completely reworking half the script (if you're not feel free to ignore the rest of this), I'd love to see Buford get a bullet in the eye when looking through the door hole around P. 40. Kill him early, and then let the twist hit much closer to end of the script. Have it play out like Stella is hunting down Gertrude and Newton (they're so defenseless!). Really convince us that Stella is a psycho killer, Gertrude and Newton are victims, and when she is taken down by Newton or Gertrude we think, "Hooray! They're safe!" Then, we see that Stella is locked up in some hellish dungeon, and it all comes out like a flood of oh, fuck!

Totally understand it's not my place to say rewrite half the script, but I figured I'd offer some food for thought.

Quoted Text What was my favorite thing: The pacing of your action and suspense. From the initial shootout at the Blumpkin household and on I was in the zone and couldn't stop reading. Slam dunk.

Cool.

Quoted Text Before that point, I almost stopped reading. Glad I didn't, but the first twenty pages or so were my least favorite of the script. She kills her abusive husband, but it doesn't feel very powerful. I think it's a brutal scene, but I wished the brutality was a bit more emotional. I'm assuming all this gore and sex is for fulfilling niche expectations? It's not a niche I know very well, so I'm assuming this first part is to quench your niche's thirst before you start hitting your stride.

By emotional, do you mean her crying? Or maybe more hesitation? You may be right. As for all the gore and sex... there really isn't much sex in this outside of the opening scene. But, as a David Cronenberg fan, I learned that sex is a great way to reveal character. He did it wonderfully in "A History of Violence", especially. Here, with this sex scene at the beginning, you immediately understand the dynamic of this relationship. So, that was my reasoning for that. As for "niche", I wrote this for a horror audience, which may be considered niche, but it's a pretty big niche... horror films, even trashy ones (not saying mine is trashy) have a high success rate when it comes to earning back their budgets. If I could go back in time, I would've made my first film a horror film -- it's been five years and we just got out of the red and I still haven't seen any residuals. Anyway... yes, in a way, I'm giving horror fans expecting a slasher movie what they want, which is gore. But the gore, specifically in this scene, is deserved, at least I think so. I suppose I can make the Stella character cry and sob, and I may still go that direction, but I hate over-emoting and I can't stand overly melodramatic scenes unless they're well earned. Perhaps she can have an emotional outburst of tears, I'll think on that. But opening a scene with the character getting all weepy after killing her abusive husband, who's abused her for years, wasn't quite the tone I was going for, I guess I wanna say. Call it cheap, but it's easy to root for and justify an abused woman murdering an unlikable monster like her husband. If I saw it in a theater, I'd cheer my ass off for her. That being said, I still might consider adding more emotion to the scene, though I don't wanna write it like I'm trying to win an Oscar, if you get what I mean. I guess for the first 20 or so page, I was trying to build up to the madness that was going to ensue, show how her mental health was spiraling, a little bit like "Joker", and make us really buy her killing all those people. Is it a little cold? Yeah, but it was by design. I'll still have to think this over a bit.

Quoted Text My input: If you are interested in completely reworking half the script (if you're not feel free to ignore the rest of this), I'd love to see Buford get a bullet in the eye when looking through the door hole around P. 40. Kill him early, and then let the twist hit much closer to end of the script. Have it play out like Stella is hunting down Gertrude and Newton (they're so defenseless!). Really convince us that Stella is a psycho killer, Gertrude and Newton are victims, and when she is taken down by Newton or Gertrude we think, "Hooray! They're safe!" Then, we see that Stella is locked up in some hellish dungeon, and it all comes out like a flood of oh, fuck!

I definitely considered this. In fact, in the first draft -- well, before I finished the first draft -- I had Buford getting killed at the page 30 mark. Now, I think it could've worked had I changed the Newton character around... I did have the torture dungeon in a shed outside originally, so Newton could've sneaked up on Stella right there if she had shot Buford through the peephole (which is something that's been done way too many times, I've already done that in two scripts I've written). Now, the one issue with that, which kept me from writing beyond that point, is Stella no longer becomes a sympathetic character. She had no idea that the family were sex traffickers and only wanted to kill Buford knowing what he did. So, she'd be trying to kill a seemingly innocent mother and son. Even after the reveal that the mother and son are sex traffickers and not innocent, you still go back and think -- "Oh, well Stella was gonna kill them anyway, regardless if they did anything wrong"... which makes her, essentially, a psychopath and an accidental hero. Which has worked in movies, like "Taxi Driver". But I wanted the audience to root for Stella much sooner than the end of the story. And since Buford killed Matilda, I felt it appropriate to kill Buford last and have him be the main heavy. I did very much consider killing Buford early as I thought it would be reminiscent of "Psycho" and thought it'd be pretty cool... and I'm sure I could've maybe made it work somehow. But, my philosophy with screenplays is that if you change one little detail, it has a ripple effect and changes the story completely. So, a 20 page rewrite isn't a 20 page rewrite... it's a full, page one rewrite. Every scene should have its purpose and each scene should affect the scenes that come after it. Take out one scene, you don't have the same movie and the story just doesn't fit together. Now, I would consider doing a full page one rewrite if I had to, to make the script better. But I've already seriously considered killing Buford early and even had it in the outline... but it just didn't really work. And I think part of the reason why the twists work so well, at least according to me, is because they happen when you least expect them. Not saying that I'm against twist endings -- I pulled a Shyamalan with my first movie (to mixed thoughts), and I've seen some great twist endings in my time, but forcing a surprise ending, like most movies with forced surprise endings (they usually suck more times than they work), just feels, well... forced. And, with forced twist endings, you run the risk of leaving the crowd feeling cheated. And that's how it felt to me when I thought about saving the twist for the ending, specifically these twists. It just felt like I'd be cramming all these surprises into the ending.  

Quoted Text Totally understand it's not my place to say rewrite half the script, but I figured I'd offer some food for thought.

No problem, man. All worthwhile suggestions that I've considered myself. But, as I said, there's no such thing as rewriting HALF a script. If I take out one scene, it changes the whole dynamic of the whole script, pretty much. And I really did consider the big change you suggested long before I finished a 1st draft. But it just didn't work for me.

Thanks for taking the time out to read and comment, much appreciated!

-- Michael

All right, so another rewrite...

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1D3fCGwMw0lAJsGHxeOCkuh9Zx3og0z6U/view?usp=sharing

For those who've read it, no need to go through the script again. This is what I changed since earlier:

- Before the title card, instead of her licking the honey mustard, I have her scream (kinda like a war cry) down at Oscar's body. I thought it might be a more intense (more emotional) and cooler segue into the title card.

- At the beginning, instead of Oscar grabbing Stella's ankle, I just have his "dead body" tip over, alarming her. We still see him crawl out of the house later and scare the lady hanging fliers up and stuffing them into mailboxes.

- I have Matilda mention that, once they get enough money together, they'll run off and leave town.

- When Matilda sees Oscar, we get a better glimpse into her logic a little bit:

Quoted Text Oscar smiling at her deviously. That proverbial devil on her shoulder. Knife still lodged in his imaginary throat, cop uniform drenched in blood. OSCAR (CONT’D) You oughtta just march right in there... He pulls the knife out of his throat with ease. No pain. OSCAR (CONT’D) ... And stick this knife right in his fucking throat. Stella just stares at him, in a trance. OSCAR (CONT’D) Might as well just... kill them all. What do you have to lose? Only a matter of time before my friends find me and throw your black ass in jail for the rest of your piece of shit life. (a beat) What exactly was the plan? Just leave me there to rot and go about your day like nothing happened? Oscar studies her as if reading her mind. OSCAR (CONT’D) Self defense? Is that what you’re thinking? Oscar chuckles mischievously, shaking his head at her. OSCAR (CONT’D) You think anybody’s gonna believe some poor, black girl with a history of mental illness? Not only did you leave the scene of a crime... but you had a motive. Stella turns, glances into the diner’s windows and catches a glimpse of Matilda carrying a tray to a table. She turns, slowly faces Oscar again. OSCAR (CONT’D) You really are out of your fucking mind, aren’t you? With a twisted, grotesque shit-grin, Oscar’s evil chuckle becomes maniacal, hysterical laughter... Until he stops abruptly. No longer smiling. Just staring at her, dead serious. OSCAR (CONT’D) Kill them all.

- When Buford sees the news report, I have the reporter refer to her as an "African American woman" right before she says that she's suspected of murdering her cop husband (to further perpetuate the racism that exists in that town).

- I also have Deputy Roy and Officer Hayden notice that Buford's pick-up truck is shot to shit with its windows shattered.

As for the other changes, they were just a few small things here and there that don't really change the narrative.

-- Michael

This script was really good. I like the twist in the middle. And how the clues were kind out there early on. The way you cut away after the diner scene was excellent. It really kept me off guard.

and i like your writing style. Very visual. It makes it easier to film.

I'm not a big fan of the obscene amounts of gore. And a kid getting his head cut off was a little extreme.

And I think you should add a scene or two, establishing the main character before she kills her husband. The build up of tension is more exciting than the actually killing.

And I didn't understand the family. They kidnap women and sell them but the dad goes on killing sprees? Wouldn't that blow his cover? I think if he was running some illegal racket, he would want to go unnoticed. And it seems like the cops know what this dude is up to yet he's still able to pull off his operation without getting caught. I just didn't but it.

Good work tho. This would be a good movie to make on a low budget.

Quoted Text This script was really good. I like the twist in the middle. And how the clues were kind out there early on. The way you cut away after the diner scene was excellent. It really kept me off guard.

Awesome.

Quoted Text and i like your writing style. Very visual. It makes it easier to film.

Thanks.

Quoted Text I'm not a big fan of the obscene amounts of gore. And a kid getting his head cut off was a little extreme.

Fair enough. I, on the other hand, am a fan. I get what you're saying about the kid... but he's 15 and had just killed a girl. Think he got what he deserved.

Quoted Text And I think you should add a scene or two, establishing the main character before she kills her husband. The build up of tension is more exciting than the actually killing.

I think I could find a way to establish the main character without adding a bunch of "back story" scenes. I tried getting across the dynamic of their relationship just by the way the were having sex. I did feel there was tension before she killed him... there's 4 pages of it leading up to the actual killing. It already is a 4 page scene. I established that the marriage sucks, Oscar is abusive, Stella is tired of it, she may be having an affair with a woman... though I agree I can try to establish her as a character better.

Quoted Text And I didn't understand the family. They kidnap women and sell them but the dad goes on killing sprees? Wouldn't that blow his cover? I think if he was running some illegal racket, he would want to go unnoticed. And it seems like the cops know what this dude is up to yet he's still able to pull off his operation without getting caught. I just didn't but it.

Well, they're poor, so they haven't been human trafficking for long. And mass shootings, for Buford, isn't exactly something that he calculated or planned for. More of an impulsive thing after all the tension and humiliation is building up -- his wife sets up the human trafficking thing, not him. And it's never been mentioned that the police suspected Buford of kidnapping girls. He has a criminal history, but nothing that would suggest kidnapping and human trafficking. It's more small town blow-ups and fights -- he just has a bad temper that landed him in jail a few years ago. Since then, he's had to watch as his family struggles, his wife being the only one doing anything in regards to making money. It's not like the dad goes around committing mass murders everyday for leisure. On this day, he makes a horrible mistake and lets his psychotic anger get the best of him, which ultimately does blow his cover.

Quoted Text Good work tho. This would be a good movie to make on a low budget.

Thanks for taking out the time, I'm getting to your script now.

-- Michael

Quoted from spesh2k On this day, he makes a horrible mistake and lets his psychotic anger get the best of him, which ultimately does blow his cover. -- Michael

yeah i just dont buy this guy losing his cool. he should be be calm on the surface. have you seen that movie "Villains". It's kind of got the same plot as this.