I don't believe I have ever left a review that said anything like either of those remarks.  

Quoted from RayW Honestly, constructively, both are equally useless to writers of any skill level, although the latter is certainly just plain crazy.

Not true at all!  Being constructive and nurturing will encourage them to improve their work and try again; telling them they suck will not.

Quoted from RayW "You need to work on character development" communicates no useful information going forward. It's like telling someone "You're lost." Oh. Okay. Well... Can you point me in a direction? "Nope. I'm just going to tell you that you're lost/you need to work on character development."

My examples here are usually followed up with examples taken from the script.  If someone describes their protagonist as:

SID (45) an overweight, unkept slob who once was the high school football star sits behind the wheel of his car.

I would ask how we're supposed he used to be a football star.  And work from there.

Quoted from RayW "The terrified teens talk like electricians and lawyers." "Law enforcement is going to call for backup before entering that structure." "Waitaminit. They were too tired to walk back to the car - but - they magically had the energy to run into the dark forest? WTH?!" "How does the creature grab the postal worker if it only comes out at night?" "No one in real life is going to stick their finger into a pool of blood and rub it around to see if it's really blood." There. Those are examples of useful constructive character development critiques.

The funny thing is, I've seen similar mistakes from the more 'experienced' people on this board.  Mistakes will always be made.

Quoted from RayW "You need to work on character development" is just useless bitching.

No, it's not.  Many writers see things in their head that they don't know how to put on paper.  They assume you're seeing what they're imagining.

Quoted from RayW As I said earlier - nubes have all year to learn BEFORE the challenge.

Not everyone signs up on these boards after the last Halloween challenge (or past any challenge).  Some show up just in time to join in on the so-called fun.

Quoted from RayW Those sincere "You suck"s are just wasted on them. So, you're right. DON'T tell them they suck.

"You suck's" are wasted on everyone.

Quoted from RayW These entrants are patting themselves on the back just for turning on their celtx for the first time in ten months. These entrants just want a participation award, in which case what is it that you're really providing them if THEY really just don't givashit? They're not patting themselves on the back for entering; other people are doing that,. [quote=RayW]Seriously, you think that if these adults need to be spoon fed they will begin to ACTUALLY challenge themselves to do the research to craft a better story for 2015? One OWC a year, get some constructive feedback, and next year they'll do less-sucky? Okay. I think you're onto something here. Then let's NOT be patient with them. Let's be a little more PROACTIVE. Let's GIVE them the tools they need BEFORE this year's Oct OWC. And then we'll GIVE them ACTIONABLE advisement so that their 2015 OWC will show some genuine improvement. Let's NOT wait until after they've loused up their one shot per year* at some praise and adulation!

Stop going full-retard!  I have to pay RDJ a few bucks each time I use that clip.

Believe it or not, there is a middle ground between automatically patting someone on the back and comparing reading someone's script to a concentration camp.  If you can't find the right words to politely criticize a bad script, then how are you suppose to find the right words to tell your story?


Phil

I hope the new writers appreciate the guidance they receive in the spirit in which it was intended, and that they learn from their mistakes to produce even better work the next time.

Follow good formatting specs and your criticisms will be reduced to fairly harmless "I don't get what you're trying to say", "I'm confused by the story", and "I just thought it was boring" sort of remarks.

Good luck & best wishes.

You impress me with your pretentiousness.


Phil

I apologize, Phil.

To conclude....be nice, constructive and leave your own issues behind.

But, I would also say, do speak your mind. That's the way we learn.

Whilst I almost gave up after my first OWC I have to say it was one of the fastest and best script educations you could ask for. Not for everyone I suppose.

Now, as for this week's  topic, well, I'm never even close on that, except....there will be blood.

Left twiddling my thumbs for a few days now. I am writing another feature, a drama, but I don't want to dive back in just yet with a short to write in a few days. I suppose I'll spend the time trying to sell my work, kidnap an agent... or something.

Quoted from RayW Likewise. Let's be friends!

I try to help people.  You try hard to scare them away.


Phil

I help people to NOT fall down.
You help them AFTER they've fallen.

TEAMWORK!  

You make them afraid to get back up.


Phil

Appreciate your words Phil. The last few times, I've said 'I'm so done with these challenges' but gawd it's hard not to write one at this time of year since this is where it all started for me...this owc three years ago so it's like an anniversary for me, but I wish there was a way to really remain anonymous. I mean, some readers in here have a way of knowing who wrote what from the get-go. So if any of you techy people want to give some tips on how to keep a pdf anonymous, I'd sure like to know.

I also agree about 'not' reading the posts until you've read and commented. I KNOW that if a script gets a review...even the first review that is bad for whatever reason, it greatly effects how others read/feel about it and comment on it.

It's been an iffy decision... to write or not to write in this thing.

DON....are we allowed to cowrite a script with a friend this time?

Quoted from Pale Yellow I also agree about 'not' reading the posts until you've read and commented. I KNOW that if a script gets a review...even the first review that is bad for whatever reason, it greatly effects how others read/feel about it and comment on it.

One way around this would be to make all comments unviewable until the end of voting. I'm no forum tech wizard, so no idea if this is even possible or more trouble than it's worth for Don.
It would be interesting to see how diverse the comments varied from each other at the end of the challenge.  It could also help keep writers who have received harsh criticism from retaliating, throwing in the towel early and giving up on reading other scripts.  It might prolong healthy interest.

Well, Don does enough work posting all these I'm sure...hate to make it more work for the Don...but even if the comments weren't released until it was time for voting or something. I know the comments help the writer, but they sway opinions I believe so much that often it affects the outcome. Wonder if there is a way to post the comments after the voting. Now that would be something

Quoted from Scoob One way around this would be to make all comments unviewable until the end of voting. I'm no forum tech wizard, so no idea if this is even possible or more trouble than it's worth for Don. It would be interesting to see how diverse the comments varied from each other at the end of the challenge.  It could also help keep writers who have received harsh criticism from retaliating, throwing in the towel early and giving up on reading other scripts.  It might prolong healthy interest.

That's how MP was done and I think most people who participated over there would agree that Chris came up with a SUPREME voting system. The only problem here though, would be that this is not a contest with votes. Just a challenge. It's supposed to be fun.