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A small audience...one which finds this funny...and entertaining...and worth choosing over many other options.
I do believe there is an audience for this, and I do think it's well written and put together. I just don't think there's much here and for me personally, I don't find it funny at all, or entertaining, and as many have said, it definitely suffers in terms of many, many "technical" things.
George tends to check out the site a few times during the day and then be almost completely absent at night. It's because I should work at work instead of surfing the net.
As for moving on a subject, this is going remarkably well for a sort of stream of consciousness discussion. Most people have started with thier first impressions and then discussed some general highs and lows. These have flowed into the major problem areas for the script in terms of character and structure.
We've discussed commercial potential which seems to be there if the script is someone's "thing" and most seem to think that Mike's actual writing is good even though this might not be their favorite of his works.
I don't know how many people are still reading, but I encourage them to continue and do what everyone else has done: start at first impressions and then explain yourself. Since the daily points have been softened to talking points, it's going very, very well.
What we know so far (based on the consensus): 1) the structure is generally weak primarily due to the lead character's goal of overcoming writer's block and his general lack of action to overcome it. 2) the characters are a little odd in that they come and go and tell anyone anything as long as it factors into the plot. I did note that some of the dialogue transitions were awkward, the one where Gabe comments on Goodfellas standing out to me in a negative way. 3) Jill is a nebulous character though there is a general disagreement over whether more is needed of her to make her more real or whether she amounts to a device that represents the block and no more is needed. I'm of the latter persuasion, and think she's better as the symbol not knowing how we should feel about her as a person since only Gabe's memory of her truly exists.
I think the conversation can continue since more minds have caused it to flow in different directions and not continually beat a dead horse. I found the read of the last dozen posts interesting. If you need a point to talk from, consider how it could have been done differently. Since this is being produced, it won't change the script, but we can learn how others might have written the same thing differently.
On page 68, the character Cam states in reference to Gabe that Jill is:
“His ex, and the source of the most fucked up case of writer’s block I’ve ever seen.”
But that quote is basically an assumption from Cam - on page one.
CAM I’d have to go with the last one. Obsession. GABE I guess it’s possible.
Gabe guesses that obsession is a possibility but I take it from this that he doesn't really believe it. There's another reason hidden there in the subtext.
A little later in the dialogue
GABE I’ve been working on the book. I’m just not getting anywhere. And it certainly doesn’t help when I can’t think of any characters besides me and you.
All Gabe can think about is himself and Cam. Hmmm. Sounds like he has something else on his mind other than Jill. And perhaps he isn't expressing his true feelings for Cam.
Dreamscale... Would you think this would be a cult movie?
"one which finds this funny...and entertaining" can't you say that about any comedy? And more specifically, the "entertaining" bit for nearly every movie?
Sure, based on the quote..I'd agree. But I'm not thinking...or saying that thsi script will have a large audience. That's based on lots of comments in here, not only from me (or even ME ).
Are you saying you find this to be a big hit? Are you saying it works for you? Just curious.
You don’t see how developing Jill’s character could contribute positively to the situation? It would give us tremendous insight into Gabe’s character, his motives, his goals, his obstacles, how he will overcome his obstacles. It would not only contribute positively to the situation, it’s virtually imperative for a complete story.
As mcornetto pointed out, you're basing your reasoning on something Cam said. And really...do you wanna trust Cam? In the process, you're ignoring the subtext...the fact that Gabe never says anything about her, never has any aversions or emotional responses when she's brought up. Clearly, he isn't obsessed with her. He's simply using her as a character because he can't think of any others. Her presence is a result of writers block rather than the cause.
Sure, Shelton could develop her character more. But that would completely alter the script. We'd be looking at a romcom then, or even a drama. But I don't really feel like I need more insight into Gabe's character. His goal is to write the great American novel, his obstacle is writers block, and I think even his motives come across fine. For a light-hearted comedy, that is more than sufficient. What IS lacking is how he will overcome those obstacles. Personally, I think any development of Jill would be a distraction from the actual story, and a further hindrance of seeing how Gabe overcomes his obstacle.
Quoted from mcornetto
All Gabe can think about is himself and Cam. Hmmm. Sounds like he has something else on his mind other than Jill. And perhaps he isn't expressing his true feelings for Cam.
Now this is hilarious! Let Barb express this idea in the script, and you've got one heck of a joke, especially with her "gift".
Dreamscale... I don't think it will be a big hit. It is okay, in terms of it working for me. I think the fact that Mike wrote it as a low budget script gives him some boundaries, which could explain why you don't think it will be a big hit.
I think we have had enough of the "me" "Me" jokes!!
As mcornetto pointed out, you're basing your reasoning on something Cam said. And really...do you wanna trust Cam? In the process, you're ignoring the subtext...
I’m not basing my view solely on what Cam said. There are other passages that almost directly say the same thing. I’m basing my view on the story as a whole.
I can’t believe so many people actually think there’s some subtext to Jill’s character or that the author intended her as a use of symbolism. I don’t see how anyone can arrive at any other conclusion than that Jill is used as a weak catalyst for a very thin storyline. Other than that, Jill is almost completely arbitrary.
In any event, I’m not sure what else there is to say about this script. I would be interested to hear Mike’s thoughts on why it was picked up.
1) the structure is generally weak primarily due to the lead character's goal of overcoming writer's block and his general lack of action to overcome it.
This was my main thought as I read the script - who's the lead character here? I know it's supposed to be Gabe, but he's just so passive throughout the entire story. I can't think of one thing he actually does for himself. Cam suggests the coffee shop, Gabe goes. Barb points out who everyone is. Jack Amsterdam suggests they go to the bar, which they later do. It's Cam who first meets Lily. And then Gabe's actually unconscious for a good chunk of the last bit! I think he could be a little more active, have a bit more incentive. After all, as people have said, he's the one with the problem, but he just lets everyone ELSE solve it for him.
So true Jonnyboy. Gabe does change as a character, but doesn't grow. I would like to see him be more active, fixing things himself instead of relying on others.
Slightly off topic.... I was annoyed about how in every flashback, it was the same thing. I said to myself, "here we go again". It's a bit too predictable in a way.
I can’t believe so many people actually think there’s some subtext to Jill’s character or that the author intended her as a use of symbolism. I don’t see how anyone can arrive at any other conclusion than that Jill is used as a weak catalyst for a very thin storyline. Other than that, Jill is almost completely arbitrary.
I agree, here. Jill doesn't represent anything. She's Gabe's reason for his block and the punchline for some jokes.
Slightly off topic.... I was annoyed about how in every flashback, it was the same thing. I said to myself, "here we go again". It's a bit too predictable in a way.
The flashbacks didn't move the story along at all, IMHO. They were just jokes, it seemed. The first one could be considered needed, as it helps set up the story, but the additional ones aren't important. You could just as easily show Gabe 'snapping out' of the additional ones.
I agree with Phil that it feels like a first draft. Looking through it, I see a bunch of things that could have been developed and made funnier.
And I think Shetlon said it was for Lifetime, which I can definitely see. They may have to change the line about getting railed by seventeen guys in two days. But I hope they don't.
And I think Shetlon said it was for Lifetime, which I can definitely see.
Really, Lifetime? Am I remembering incorrectly or is Lifetime the channel that mostly shows movies targeted towards middle-aged women? I don't really see this having that much appeal for that demographic.
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In the process, you're ignoring the subtext...the fact that Gabe never says anything about her, never has any aversions or emotional responses when she's brought up. Clearly, he isn't obsessed with her. He's simply using her as a character because he can't think of any others. Her presence is a result of writers block rather than the cause.
