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Ray, please I am so not trying to be a smartAss here, and I do know how important STORY is, but if it is all about story and not how it is written, then why is it so damn hard to write a screenplay.
Since they rip it up, then why can't they be a little more lenient with the scripts then. Why do some make it and some get tossed - even if the story is good.
We're cool. It's hard because we still have to demonstrate a minimum industry proficiency, and that's leaps and bounds above some of the novels in screenplay pseudo-format on a doc file routinely submitted here.
Considerably more difficult.
The producers and directors who actually pony up the thousands, tens of thousands, hundreds of thousands, millions, tens of millions of dollars feel entitled to nudge stuff around at their discretion because... it's their money.
Film's don't just waft into the theater like FM radio.
Even if you're filming your own short, it don't take much to blow a few hundred dollars just on props and costumes. Probably gotta feed people, too. Might oughtta step up from a one man show to a two man camera&audio team. Who's paying to incentivize everyone to show up on time and prepared?
Watch enough behind the scenes and director/producer commentary and you'll eventually pick up on just how "high" writers rate in the grand scheme of the industry, studio or indie.
Story selection is largely based on budget and upon talent resource pool. First, any director without a bucket load of his own stories to pursue production of is suspect. Second, since they're shopping for someone else's story they gotta be mindful of what they can and can't do. Third, us home gamers writing pie-in-the-sky stories are shooting bullets to hit bullets of the few director/producers that haven't even got a bucket of their own ideas.
That's some pretty ugly looking math there.
Even if a director/producer taps you on the shoulder to write something for them, as in the case of Heyman by Aronofsky, you can plainly see the Director still changed all but the fundamentals of the story around.
Write. Write well. Be cool about it. Try to make a story someone else might wanna enjoy. Understand that someone else's $1,000,000 to invest low-budget budget wipes our $0 invested creativity off the map.
I hear ya. I am willing to let someone rape and plunder it if they pay me! Heck, I will just figure out another clever idea! LOL
"bounds above some of the novels in screenplay pseudo-format" That is funny and exactly what I am trying to avoid!
As soon as I get this done, I will hopefully post here for review. I am giving myself until October, but I might get it done before that, I have been on fire~!
The whole interview is quite interesting, but at the time mentioned above, Mark Heyman talks about theme.
At around 50:00 Heyman would appear to confirm my statements about "reality" and subjective perspective to some point.
And DMC, they talk about her dad at 1:03:00
Thank you so much for bringing this in. I've listened to just over the 50 mark and it's lovely. When he's asked whether we should view it as reality or dream, his answer is:
Sure, if you want to.
And
It's all real and not real because it's through Nina's eyes that we see it.
I'll finish listening tomorrow. Loved the words about writer's block. Whether that is real or unreal is probably too both real and unreal depending upon what you think. Also, the advice to have small goals daily is excellent. In general, for anything, that is best.
dmc, I'm the last person you want to ask those kinds of questions to, because I don't believe in them, nor do I care where they are. I just don't work like that...I don't write like that, and I don't watch movies like that.
Ray, Rick, of Chris can easily answer these questions for you.
IMO, these things are all natural progressions in story telling and don't need to be forced, shoe horned in, or even worried about.
Guess that's one of many reasons I appear to be a rebel.
Do not trust in "screenplay structure". The teachings of Aristotle and the observations of Joseph Campbell have been bastardized by hacks who think that creative vision can be achieved solely through a logically applied proven system. This is false. Syd Field can f*** himself. We write myth, we don't build it from blueprints.
Dreamscale, thanks and I am glad you got the play on your name. To answer, I enjoyed the script - I couldn't put it down. The movie was not as gripping to me, and the ending I think was spoiled by the script so I knew it was coming..
Ray, thanks I am gonna go check those out later! Thanks!!
Heretic... yep, S. Fields is the one I have been learning/reading about! 3 act structure, plot points, pardigms, etc. I think I have to learn before I can poo poo it right? I have seen so many so far that I can see it as plain as day!!!
I will check out your link later!!!
This thread might have gone all over the map, but I have enjoyed it so much! Probably I haven't contributed much, but thanks for your patience so far~
Alright, I've listened to the interview with the writers that Heretic posted.
The first thing that I can appreciate is the creative process at work in so many aspects of development. Everything happened over a long exciting haul where every element was given a chance to be questioned and changed. This is the kind of flexibility that I admire. Especially to hear about lucky accidents, shots that couldn't have been done better if they had been planned. This is what excites me so. It's living breathing art that transcends all formula. It's like this wonderful level of faith where the love of the craft surpasses understanding. It's humans being and not just doing. That's the difference between just outlining and working it after that phase, indeed, many phases.
It's interesting to note the importance of outlining and I would think that for many it's a critical element. Not that those outlines aren't being reworked, but I think it helps the writer really get to know their story because that is the be all and end all of it all after all. It sounds so simple, but it's the hardest thing of all and brilliance really is the ability to reduce something down into its simplest form. After that, then you can start building it up again and working with all of the details until nothing is extraneous.
What I loved too was learning that many ballerinas are very quiet, hence, the lack of dialogue on Nina's part. Interesting too, actions really do speak louder than words and when she bites Thomas or Yevna or whoever you want to call him, that spoke louder than anything. In the script that I read, she only slaps him. I wonder how that change came about.
Anyways, even though I'm way on the outside, I do know internally that film making is all about the process of distillation. That's actually the part I really am interested in. All of the evolutions and revelations that you make in the discovery process.
I don't know if they intended it, but when I think of the padding that she lands on at her death, I think of the "padded room" designed to protect, designed to confine.
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Script Club XIV - Black Swan
Logged
and exactly what I am trying to avoid!
