Quoted from Verdugo Someone listed Sunshine (and Aliens which is too out of date to use as a sample script) in one of the posts as being a similar movie.  It is and it isn’t. Sunshine is a philosophical script about the existence of God.  Countdown is a script about giant monsters and a crew in jeopardy.  Is Countdown the best script I’ve ever read?  No.  Does it have the same level of artistry as Sunshine? No. But Countdown delivers what the people with the open checkbook wanted. Which is a summer monster movie that will sell well when dubbed to meet the overseas market.   If someone had a copy of Sunshine it would be a great exercise to read these two side by side because what is and isn’t in Countdown might be more apparent.

In case you come back, it was actually me who referenced Sunshine. But i was not comparing this script to Sunshine, I was only saying that this script was not really Sci-Fi in the sense it gave us a world we had not already seen before in Sunshine or Aliens. I am in agreement with most of your points, this is not Sunshine but never wanted to be Sunshine, so I would not compare it to it. I would compare this to any other action flicks aimed at an audience who know what they want from action flicks.

"The story is weak, the characters are weak and the movie contains plot holes....

But it is still a well written script "

Does not compute!  Danger Will Robinson! (or am I confusing my poorly written science fiction movie robots?)

Sorry, but you can't have a well written script witha weak story, weak character and plot holes.  

And your art vs. commerce argument is weak.  I haven't read the Dark Knight returns, but it won't win an Oscar, made a ton of money, and it has to be better written then this.

YOu'er argument seems to be that he hits all his plot points.  Any body with twelve bucks can buy aone of Syd Fileds books and find their plot points.  It doesn't make it well written.  Hell, I've hit all my plot points in my screenplay.  It doesn't make it well written.  Compentently crafted at best.

And as far as finding a script on here that's better, go check out The Thing by Sniper.  He needs to proofread it and clean up the typos, but it is at least one if not two steps above this.

GM,

I have to say I don’t think I’ve ever read a post that more misrepresented what I’m trying to say. You appear to have completely missed my point.

An amateur writer can write as good - or better - than the writing in this script and still not succeed in Hollywood.

That’s my point. That’s all there is to it. Not every amateur. But some. Some amateurs write as good or better than Hollywood pros and still don’t break into Hollywood.

I don’t deny that this stuff sells. I never did. And I never said this wasn’t a good script overall. What I take exception to is that a good writer who fails is automatically a failure for the reason that he or she is not of the same quality as a Hollywood professional.

Quoted from seamus19382 I haven't read the Dark Knight returns, but it won't win an Oscar, made a ton of money, and it has to be better written then this.

Thanks for your post Seamus. Just for the record; I have read The Dark Knight and it’s far superior to this.


Breanne


[Edit -- I took some comments GM said personally and responded in kind in this post. Those remarks have now been removed.]

Cheers Breanne,

If you want to patronize me any further I am sure you could have tried. Go on give it a go, sure you can do it. I'm just naive, should be an easy target for you.

I am finished with this Script Club. Breanne, if you want to have a cry about how better writers for whatever reason do not get produced and yet crap like this does then go on. While you are crying about it I will carry on learning how to write a script that can be sold. We will wait and see which path gets us to our goals first shall we.

And Please Seamus, using The Dark Knight as an example is pretty pathetic. The Dark Knight will be nominated for Oscars, that is a given. Maybe not in the writing department but still will be nominated. By the way, The Dark Knight has plot holes of it's own you know. And was written and directed by one of the greatest filmmakers around at present. it really is in a class of it's own.

Did the writers get paid for writing Countdown, yes or no?

If you want to be a screenwriter then that is all you should be bothered about.


Let me know when the Script Club starts talking about scripts again and maybe I will come back.

So, um, what did everyone think of the second act?

Quoted from Murphy If you want to patronize me any further I am sure you could have tried. Go on give it a go, sure you can do it. I'm just naive, should be an easy target for you. I am finished with this Script Club. Breanne, if you want to have a cry about how better writers for whatever reason do not get produced and yet crap like this does then go on. While you are crying about it I will carry on learning how to write a script that can be sold. We will wait and see which path gets us to our goals first shall we.

Excuse me? Where did the patronization begin?

Quoted from Murphy Breanne, You sound like you have not been to the cinema for years…. Can you not see how this script has been built? You really need to be able to spot the difference between a script that has been put together by a professional and one put together by someone who has not mastered their craft yet. I really think you are allowing your feelings for the story get in the way of your feelings for the script itself. The story is a movie that will sell tickets and make money, if you cannot see that then I would suggest you go to IMDB and take a look at some of the most successful movies over the last 10 years…

I found the tone of your post extremely patronizing. And to be patronized over something I never even said in the first place is insult to injury. You call me emotional. You’re the one who sounds emotional.

Where did you get the idea that I don’t understand why this movie is being made? You didn’t get it from anything I said. I understand that this movie will get its money out of its target male teens’ pockets before they realize they’ve been duped with a poor imitation of previous movies they liked. I understand it’s about money.

I also understand that this film’s target audience isn’t as stupid as Hollywood thinks they are and this film’s investors may lose their shirts.

Where did you get the idea that I’m not willing to do what it takes to succeed? You didn’t get it from anything I said.

I’ve reiterated time and again my willingness to make any number of concessions to succeed.

None of what you’re saying negates my point.

Quoted from Murphy While you are crying about it I will carry on learning how to write a script that can be sold. We will wait and see which path gets us to our goals first shall we.

If you go back over all the posts, I think most will agree that no one here has been more adamant about trying to get at what makes a script sell than me. How you can be so backward in your understanding of that, I don’t know.

And actually, we may not see who gets there first. We may neither of us make it. That’s my point. No matter how good you are, you still might not make it. I hope you do make it. I really do. But if you do make it, I hope you’re not arrogant enough to think you did it all on your own.


Breanne

I think we need a bottle of Jager and another group hug.

Bre, I hear your point, and I think you are 100% correct. Actually, there's now way you couldn't be correct.  It's not just in screenwriting, it's everywhere, and in all industries.  There are extremely talented musicians playing in dive bars, while no talent singers make millions.  Starving artists are all around us waiting to be discovered.  It's the way it is, and most likely, the way it will be.  All we can do is keep trying and believing.

GM, I have to agree with Seamus completely, that your argument doesn't make any sense.  We're not experts or pros in here, but I think many of us know what works, what doesn't work, and why.  Of course, to each is always own though.

But to say that a well written script contains a weak story. weak characters, and plot holes just doesn't make any sense.  I thought most of us had agreed awhile back that story is King, and the actual writing takes a back seat to a great, unique story?  It does for me at least.  Anyone can learn to write a screenplay that looks however someone wants it to look, but few can actually create something that's unique, well thought out, and entertaining.  At least that's the way it should be.

I still don't buy everything that Verdugo had to say.  I also don't agree with everything he had to say at all.  I have trouble believing that a pro writer just decided out of the blue to resurect this old Matheson story, and based on his spec script, got a greenlight and a big paycheck.  It doesn't make sense.  Why would 3 other writers have to be brought in to work on the script?  Why would the original writer even pursue something like this, knowing that Matheson holds the rights to the story?  And why would this script look like it does (with no characterization, terrible action writing, pathetic creatures, and plot holes so big you could fly the Talon through) after all this?  Couldn't 3 or 4 pro writers clean this thing up a bit?

We all are going to have our own opinions here and that's what makes each of us who we are.  Thank God we all don't think alike!  It makes the world go round, and hopefully, we keep turning!

And for the record, I do want to write a screenplay that sells in Hollywood, but I want that movie to be good, and make a profit.  Think of all the huge budgeted flops over the years.  Someone greenlighted them based on their writing, obviously, not their story, characters, and the like.  I think we all need to see beyond the actual screenplay, and how it looks or reads...we need to invision it as a movie adn think about what works and what doesn't.

This thing doesn't work,a dn unless MAJOR changes have been made to the script, it's going to tank miserably.

Quoted from seamus19382 "The story is weak, the characters are weak and the movie contains plot holes.... But it is still a well written script " Does not compute!  Danger Will Robinson! (or am I confusing my poorly written science fiction movie robots?) Sorry, but you can't have a well written script witha weak story, weak character and plot holes.   And your art vs. commerce argument is weak.  I haven't read the Dark Knight returns, but it won't win an Oscar, made a ton of money, and it has to be better written then this. YOu'er argument seems to be that he hits all his plot points.  Any body with twelve bucks can buy aone of Syd Fileds books and find their plot points.  It doesn't make it well written.  Hell, I've hit all my plot points in my screenplay.  It doesn't make it well written.  Compentently crafted at best. And as far as finding a script on here that's better, go check out The Thing by Sniper.  He needs to proofread it and clean up the typos, but it is at least one if not two steps above this.

Of course it is better written than this, it is the second most successful movie of all time!! Nobody is saying that Countdown has any aspirations to match that. But just because there is a  better written script than this does not make this script bad. That is the strangest logic I have ever heard in my life.

There are countless movies that are as bad as this that have made plenty of money, I don't often watch them but they are out there and sell many many more tickets than the movies I love and think are superior.

Do you really believe that writers who write scripts for crappy action flims are bad screenwriters then? The guys that wrote this script have made far more money from screenwriting than anybody on this site, would you not consider that success? What gives anybody the cheek to say they are a better writer than someone who has worked hard, made it and now makes a good living from it?

Cornetto, my friend, you are a true comedian!  Nicely put!

Quoted from Dreamscale But to say that a well written script contains a weak story. weak characters, and plot holes just doesn't make any sense.  I thought most of us had agreed awhile back that story is King, and the actual writing takes a back seat to a great, unique story?

Of course it does, we all strive to come up with a great, unique story. But the fact of the matter is that most of the movies made today are not great and unique stories. BUT they still make lots of money and the writers still get paid.  This script was never meant to be a great and unique story. It is not as though the writers sat down to write a Sci-Fi classic and this was the best they could come up because Sci-Fi classics do not as a rule sell movie tickets. The writers no doubt sat down with the sole intention of making an action movie for the masses and that is exactly what they have achieved, end of story.

My point is that we have deviated far off course from the intention of the Script Club by talking about how good a movie this is.

The facts of the matter is that this script is for a produced movie whether we like it or not. This is a produced script. We are supposed to be figuring out why, but because some people have the believe that this does not deserve to be a produced script then we are stuck in a rut. If you do not think this script deserves to be produced then fine, we all are entitled to our own opinions. But don't you still want to try and work out why it is being produced? Because believe it or not there is something right about this script, there has to be. Otherwise you are expecting me to believe that somebody greenlit it has a joke, maybe someone was in a good mood that day, or maybe they read another script called Countdown and got confused?

GM, based on your last post, I think you're basically admitting that what Bre has been saying all along is correct then.  If this script doesn't contain a great story, great characters, well written action, why is it being produced with a huge budget?  It's because of who they are and connections they obvioulsy have.

I mean c'mon, it's begining to sound like more people in here don't think very much of this idea, concept, and the actual writing (finally).  Are you saying that no one in here could write a better script than this, based on the Matheson story?  I have a feeling that many of us could come up with much better ideas, action, characters, and conflict, and I think we could easily make it "look" better also.

If this was entered in a competition, against 100 other similar scripts, you think this would rise above the rest?  Why?  What are we missing here?  And why do you continue to support this thing when you've said over and over that it's not a movie you would see, it's a weak story with weak characters, and plot holes?  Do you think the action scenes are well written or put together?  Do you like the creatures?

What makes this thing so great?  I just don't understand.  Maybe it's cause I'm an inexperienced newbie who doesn't know a great script when it shoots a barb out of it's mouth at me.

Quoted from Murphy My point is that we have deviated far off course from the intention of the Script Club by talking about how good a movie this is.

How can we discuss why this script got produced without discussing the quality of the writing?

Quoted from Murphy …don't you still want to try and work out why it is being produced?

Yes. And actually I was one of the first to start discussing why it got produced. That’s why I was so surprised that you started condescending to me over things I never said.

Quoted from Dreamscale GM, based on your last post, I think you're basically admitting that what Bre has been saying all along is correct then.

This is what I don't get about GM. He’s parroting what I said a long time ago. But when he posted his rant to me, it was like he just made up a bunch of stuff and attributed it all to me.


Breanne

Quoted from Breanne Mattson Listen very carefully GM. I’m going to try and say this as clearly as I can so that there’s no misunderstanding. Please try and pay very close attention to what I’m about to say. Listen… Here it comes…. Are you paying attention?….

Okay, now I'm thinking you shouldn't be a mod, Brea.

Quoted from sniper Okay, now I'm thinking you shouldn't be a mod, Brea.

I’m sorry I let you down.

But this is what set me off:

Quoted from Murphy Breanne, You sound like you have not been to the cinema for years…. Can you not see how this script has been built? You really need to be able to spot the difference between a script that has been put together by a professional and one put together by someone who has not mastered their craft yet. I really think you are allowing your feelings for the story get in the way of your feelings for the script itself. The story is a movie that will sell tickets and make money, if you cannot see that then I would suggest you go to IMDB and take a look at some of the most successful movies over the last 10 years…

Keep in mind, I never said anything about this script not deserving to be produced. Nothing. Not one thing. This rant came out of nowhere.


Breanne


[Edit -- I took some comments GM said personally and responded in kind in an earlier post. Those remarks have now been removed from that post.]