Quoted from bert I am not sure how we attracted your attention, Verdugo, but you are a welcome participant here. I hope the chatter doesn't scrare you off.  There are people listening.

I just want to second Bert's comments.

I would like to hear anything you can say about this and most interested in hearing more about the 2nd script you mentioned. Are you saying the writer is a member here? I would like to take a look at the script if possible.

Quoted from Breanne Mattson Well, there you go. Can’t get any plainer than that. So how about shifting the discussion to the points here? 1) Understanding the market 2) Writing the script 3) Making the deal Thanks Verdugo. Or do we need a separate thread for this? Breanne

Well to be perfectly honest I thought the first two points is exactly what I have been trying to shift the discussion to for the last few pages but failing miserably it seems.

I cannot see why a new thread is needed for that.

We'll see if it's truly what the people want when it's released.

It will be interesting for sure.  If I'm wrong in what I've said, I'll be the first to admit it...maybe I'll even send the writers a bottle of cheap wine!

Thanks for your answer, Verdugo.

Quoted from Verdugo   It's just seems wrongheaded that you keep trying to rewrite this one.  This sold.  It's what people want.  They don't want it changed so why are you trying to change it?

Hey Verdugo...welcome.

We aren't going to rewrite the script - but as an exercise we are analyzing it, criticizing it, and at the same time possibly making suggestions for how to improve it.  That is what the script club does with scripts.  

We thought this one would be interesting because it will be produced but is not yet viewable - therefore the final film could not influence peoples perceptions of the script.  We expect that changes will happen to this script as it goes through the process of being filmed.  It will be interesting to see what changes are made to the final film and then look back at this thread and see how well we did with our predictions.

Quoted from Breanne Mattson Well, there you go. Can’t get any plainer than that. So how about shifting the discussion to the points here? 1) Understanding the market 2) Writing the script 3) Making the deal Thanks Verdugo. Or do we need a separate thread for this? Breanne

A separate thread.


  

Quoted from mcornetto We aren't going to rewrite the script - but as an exercise we are analyzing it, criticizing it, and at the same time possibly making suggestions for how to improve it.  That is what the script club does with scripts.

I will just add that that is what the script club does with unproduced scripts. I am sure you were not talking for everybody when you say "we".

I am under not allusion whatsoever that I am qualified enough to even think I can improve a script written by professional screenwriters with a heap of successful movies under their belt already. We should have been looking at this script and analyzing it to try and get a better understanding of why this is being produced. What is the commercial drivers as to why a studio thinks this script will be successful? How could we use this information to improve our own skills as writers? But no, let's not bother with that, there is obviously some mistake here, because it does not match up to our own expectations of what a produced screenplay should look like then surely someone has got it wrong!

I have got no interest in criticizing or improving this script at all, I can critique movies in the movie review section and I can offer improvement to scripts in the unproduced section, But this script has succeeded in doing exactly what we all want for ourselves and all people want to do it rip it to shreds to prove how we are better writers anyway.  I thought that everyone here wanted to learn more about what makes a successful script so successful and thought this was was the thread to do it. But all we ended up with was a pissing contest about how this script is not very good and how we could all do better and life isn't fair. An opportunity missed and a huge disappointment for me personally.

So the 'we' certainly does not speak for me on this Michael and this really is my last post of the script club.

This script seems to have sparked a rather lively conversation, albeit not entirely related to the script itself.  Might I suggest you keep plugging along in the produced section (since I don't know what SS script to suggest) and you guys do The Wrestler for the next script club?

I'd be really interested in seeing what you guys have to say about it, since I think the script has Oscar nod written all over it, and it would offer, in my opinion, a complete 180 to what's go on in regards to this script.

Quoted from mcornetto A separate thread.

Hey thanks Michael.

I apologize to the script club members for harping so much on the salability issues of scripts. Obviously it’s important to us all but this is not the place for such discussions.

I don’t have the time right now but maybe later I’ll start a separate discussion thread for the purpose of examining those other issues.

I respect the purposes of the script club. I just didn’t fully understand them. I do believe a lot of productive things have come from this script club and I’m interested in continuing the discussion in the capacity it’s meant to be. But I also want to discuss those other issues so I’ll probably start another thread sometime.

Thanks and sorry for all the conflict. Honestly I think a little conflict is inevitable in a long thread like this. So I have no hard feelings toward anyone. And I hope no one has any toward me. Or at least can get over them eventually.

Quoted from AnotherWriter I'm gonna bite on this on, 'cause I'm not sure whether you're joking or not.  It's big talk you're making there -- no, it's smackdown talk -- it's the howls of the Ultimate Warrior.  And I feel kinda embarassed on your behalf.

AnotherWriter, from now on we need to take this up outside of this forum. I sent you a pm.


Breanne

Hello people!  My goodness...a lot of juicy chatter here!  I have so missed out...sorry I have been away.

Me-Me =)   Is it possible to get a copy of the script?  If it's too late to jump on the band wagon (gidee-up!) then I'll wait for the next one

m

The Dark Knight being better than this is not a revelation. The Dark Knight is rubbing elbows with the Godfather, so… TDK should get nominated for best screenplay, if these guys who not only nominated but gave Oscars to ‘The Departed’ and “Return of The King’, no anything at all.

Plot Point is a tad vague. It may tell you where something should go, but it doesn’t tell you how to convey it in a clever, unique and insightful way. You’re better of reading about comedy and comparative philosophy than Syd Field.


Twelve pages, I think it’s time to move on since we can’t have the writers chim in, boy would that be interesting. I think we should do a Drama, Western, or drama/thriller, unproduced, of course. I want to see the response more character, less plot (not that there’s a difference).

What do you say, Pia? Or anybody, any suggestions?

GM -

I agree, the Dark Knight probably isn't the best example.  If it wins any OScars, it won't be for best picture or best screenplay, but it certainly was going to make a tone of money one way or another.  But the fact that it made almost enough money to bail out our fiasco of an economy is proof that you can have good writing and commercial success.  (Rumor has it that W's original economic plan was to throw up the bat signal and see what happens.)

I conceded a point to you.  By your own words, this is not a well written script, but it may in fact be a well constructed script.  You say that it hits all its plot points.  I  would love to see you develop that point.  Give us some specific examples.  Show Don't tell!  It could lead to a constrcutive conversation and one that you seem to want to have.

I'm making the claim tht this is the worst screenplay that I have ever read that has sold and is being produced.  You seem to think there are worse out there.  Please provide an example.

The staement that it sould and that's all we should care about is scynical and silly.  As aspiring screenwriters. what we should care about is writing the best possible srceenplay.  

Bert - I am in fact suing you.  Tell your lawyers to get ready.

Anotherwrtier - Your points will have a beeter chance of resonating if you refrain from personal attacks and quouting the Ultimate Warrior.

Pia - You rock.  No reason in particular, just a general statemnet of fact.

Last but not least,  I think this discussion is awesome.  We're talking about writing, What works and what doesn't, and I think that's great.  But remember don't take it personally.  We're all here for the same reason.  We may not always agree, but we're all in the same boat.

184 replies!!

I think MBCgirl might be reading this one at the moment even if  a little late.

Personally I think this one is done.

I'm happy that so many people participated. That was great. Maybe the next one can be "hosted" by Shelton or Bert. Someone that can actually do something if things turn personal.

Regarding what script to do next I have mixed feelings. A lot of people took part in this one. Was it only because it was a produced script? I think our original idea about this script club was to discuss members scripts so they could receive the best ideas, suggestions, analysis of their script possible... for free too.

It's up to you guys what you want to do next.  

I want another shot of Jager and group hug!

Seamus has issued a challenge to GM (or maybe AnotherWriter or Vedunga would want to chime in).  I say we wait a bit and see if anything else interesting comes up today.

I agree with Pia though in that this forum should be used for unproduced SS member's scripts.

Quoted from Grandma Bear Maybe the next one can be "hosted" by Shelton or Bert. Someone that can actually do something if things turn personal.

Just for the record, GM and I totally worked all that out. I took some of his comments personally and responded with personal remarks. I’ve now removed those remarks from the offending post and I publicly apologize to GM over it. There’s always a better way to handle a situation.

Quoted from Verdugo Yes. But it wouldn't be produced.  It's too expensive for a first timers spec.  It could get you an agent and it could get you work.  It's solid and clean and it meets all the requirements for a high concept film.

Z asked if Countdown would break an amateur in and Verdugo responded with the above. I just want to clarify something here because someone said this is basically what AnotherWriter said.

I draw a distinction between what Verdugo said and what AnotherWriter said. I did not take what Verdugo said as any sort of guarantee of success. If however Verdugo is claiming this script would guarantee an amateur success, then all I can say is that I don’t agree that anyone can know such a thing and leave it at that.

All of that aside:

I think this thread has been terrific. I think there have been a lot of things here that will help me improve as a writer. I think the whole thing was worth it.


Breanne

I think all the turmoil is winding up.  I found my way here because someone named Mike Shelton told someone named Tierney who used to post here that you were doing Countdown.  Tierney and I have friends in common and she remembered that I had talked about the resurrection of this script.  Here I am.  By way of an introduction, I am retired but I have worked in development and in management for over thirty years.

Breanne asked about the guarantee of success with the Countdown script.  No guarantees ever when there is a human involved but it is the correctly shaped key for the lock.

A couple of people asked me about demo and budget and casting.  

The movie is at Summit Entertainment and they do mid-level budget films which means $30 to $35 million dollars.

As far as demographic this is an action movie with monsters.  15-34 year old males in the US and then there’s the rest of the world.  This will make its money overseas.  It’s like the last Mummy movie which made 65% of its total gross internationally.  Look at the script again and take into account the dialogue.  There’s not a lot of nuance going on here.  Also look at how little dialogue there is in chunks of the movie.  It will play the same in Topeka as it will in India.

As far as the cast I have no idea.  There is still no guarantee that this will make it to the screen.  I don't think it's been moved into production. I think another rewrite is underway. Does it have a better chance now that Brandt and Haas are the soup of the day?  Sure.  

I think you should try another purchased script before you give up this exercise.  Reading each others work will only get you so far.  You’re writing and critiquing to meet your own narrative needs which have nothing to do with what the market wants.    I have character and story wants that Countdown doesn’t meet but I can look at it and see what is there without letting my own taste interfere.  There are giant tongue monsters running around.  Would I see this?  No, but I’m not a teenager raised on video games.  Can I see the trailer in my head and see it making back the budget domestically.  Yes.

This thread got stuck in a fight about quality.  There was a reference to The Wrestler which is nice script and straightforward.  The Curious Case of Benjamin Button is on everyone’s Oscar screenplay shortlist and you’d be in good hands with Eric Roth.  Those are both sort of "important" scripts. I’m sure that there are plenty of leaked scripts (like Alex Garland’s Halo) on the internet that are more high concept if that's what you are looking for.

If you do pick another script don’t pick one that has been written by the person directing the film. Those scripts have everything to do with directing and little to do with writing.