NO NO!!!

Don't delete it!!  

Let's just talk further about certain aspects of the script....  Bert HELP!!!!
I'm being misunderstood every way I turn!!

Yeah!  Bre, put your post back up!  Without it, I'm all alone here!  Please, don't leave me liike this!

Quoted from Grandma Bear NO NO!!! Don't delete it!!   Let's just talk further about certain aspects of the script....  Bert HELP!!!! I'm being misunderstood every way I turn!!

It’s okay Pia. It’s copied and pasted. I still have it. I can post bits and pieces as they become relevant. Writing stuff out just helps me sort my thoughts, that’s all. It’s not a big deal.

Quoted from Dreamscale Yeah!  Bre, put your post back up!  Without it, I'm all alone here!  Please, don't leave me liike this!

Haha. I’m not leaving you. I just don’t want to disrupt the order of things. I’m confused about how this works.


Breanne

So, I’ve only gotten as far as page 50ish. I’ll finish later tonight, but figured I got the first act covered so I’ll comment. I think the fact that Dreamscale, and I guess a few others agree that the story was good, but the writing not proves that nothing beats an interesting story and/or hook. Producer probably think we can work on the details later, by details I mean removing F***, S***, but this idea is a taker.

I’m also not sure that ‘this’ is the particular script that the writer sold or production picked up. Can anyone say for certain? I think that’s important. Because otherwise I can understand why the writer takes this narrator within a story in his description for actor and directors notes. Just a thought.


  What I like about the beginning is that prior to where the story begins plenty has happen that we never saw, but creates subtext – Finn joining the crew, Ryker and Corvin’s friendship, Ryker and Mills affair and the Earth being over populated or worse, I’m still not sure. I also like that along with that the dialogue between characters’s picks up where the character in their real life seem to pick up, and not for the audience sake. I mean of course it really does. But it doesn’t seem like just exposition, also with what explain early with things happening prior gives the effect that these people were living before we got this window into their lives and will continue after the window closes, assuming they survive, even if they don’t, I’ll always wonder what of Earth? Will they send another crew after this one? Will they find another planet to inhabit?

  Which brings me to something I think the first Act requires and I do think the writer accomplishes, now the matter of whether what they came up is anygood is a different debate, but some stories don’t even have these things… like along with original desire: locate a suitable planet for Earth’s inhabitants, comes motive: the Earth is overpopulated and probably worse, and stakes: if they find a suitable planet they save human race, if they don’t find anything human race won’t survive. Those are big stakes and motives.


I think stories open with an original desire like I explained and then the Act 2 begin when that desire changes after a major revelation. I’d say finding your future self dead is one hell of a revelation. It’s also where the hook begins; this is what sells the story.


Continued....

In terms of the exercise scene I loved it, along with the vegetarian snake. It added texture, context. I also thought it was important to establish character mainly, Finn whose exercise was purely mental. I know in the description there’s mention of how cerbal he is, but this is something you can see on screen plus it adds credibility to his character traits, when he’s explaining that he shot Corvin. Even though you don’t like him it makes it easier to believe his analytical decision to shoot Corvin more believable.
And then the part where Ryker is like the heart beat didn’t raise above this, first thing I thought was that would be evidence against anybody else, but Finn would be the type of person whose heart rate didn’t jump. Ryker tests him, which takes thinking. So, in some instances where Ryker may seem less well rounded it’s moments like this where he does. He’s a thinking character that’s what you want.


As far as the shockwave and people not being strapped in, I read it as one of co-pilots mentioned the computer didn’t show any atmospheric mumble-jumble reason for them to be strapped in, this came after the shockwave. But it explains why they weren’t strapped in before. At first I thought the same thing, though because that’s common knowledge in entering another planet. But, they didn’t know they were going to be launched into a near future, which I assume what the shockwave was.


Pia, brought up the begin pregnant part I thought, enhances the drama. I also can’t fully justified the stupidity here other than, woman are stupid, joking, calm down totally joking, lol. I love woman.


To answers Pia about why it had you hooked, it was a good hook with a good opening with not only subtext created prior to where the story picks up but also conflict in the beginning, which created more subtext, and which is also the launching pad for the rest of the story, most stories weakness can be tracked back to weak beginnings. What makes a good launching pad isn’t necessarily mystery, which is great, and I think this story has, but it’s dramatic potential. It’s confidence that the write has established his ability to write conflict with the promise of more conflict.

  That’s plenty, I think I’ll finish the script. I just had to say something before things went away from Act I. I just thought some people were focusing on budget which is fine, but as an unproduced writer I find it more interesting to figure out why this story is getting produced, what is in this script that people want to put money into it. And believe it will succeed, it may not, but they think it will. I think some of the things I’ve mentioned are valued reasons why it’s getting produced.


All done.

Quoted from AnotherWriter Seriously?!  You think there are writers here that write "far" better than these A-List pros?!  I can't help but smile at that notion.  But it's that level of ignorance that keeps many pre-pro writers below-the-line.  These comments are very typical of VERY inexperienced writers/readers. I would say this script and writing easily outranks many of the Nicholl finalist/winning scripts I have read these past few years.  And if you consider this writing p!ss poor, well then, placing at top-level contests and getting Hollywood heat should be a walk in the park for you. As for cursing in the descriptive text, I guess that makes Oscar level writers like John Logan, Frank Darabont, Akiva Goldsman, Tony Gilroy etc "juvenile and amateurish".  This clearly indicates that you don't read many professional scripts. If you can't spot the quality difference in the writing between this and pre-pro scripts within the first 5 pages, then you're obviously not looking at it right.

Just to clarify my own comments, since my name is mentioned in Dreamscale’s quote above, in my own review (which has since been deleted), I think my thoughts were taken as far more negative than I intended. I thought (and said in my review) that there were a lot of positive things about this script. Overall, I liked it.

But I didn’t think it was perfect. I do think it had some problems, including one serious plot hole.

My exact comment with regard to other scripts here at Simply Scripts was this:

Quoted from Breanne Mattson I couldn’t help but think of some scripts from some unproduced writers right here at Simply Scripts, whose work I would rather see on the screen.

All I said is that there were some scripts here that I would rather see at the theater than this one. And I stand by that. And you’ve said nothing to make me think there’s anything wrong with that.

If you choose to automatically assume some people are better than you simply because they’re Hollywood insiders, that’s certainly your right. But I don’t agree with you and if that makes me an ignorant, VERY inexperienced writer, then so be it. I can fix that with experience. To me, plot holes are plot holes and on the nose dialogue is on the nose dialogue no matter who writes it.


Breanne

Hey no problem. I understand what you’re saying. I understand that this is the kind of stuff that sells in Hollywood. I was just giving my honest opinions of the script. I think the kind of people who will go see this film are people who like films like Alien or The Abyss and I think this story is pale by comparison.

As far as success in Hollywood, I don’t know if an unknown could even get this script read, much less sold. Assuming it was read, I think whether it sold or not would depend on other factors, such as the current market.

My personal view is that it basically takes talent, perseverance, and opportunities to succeed. Talent can be honed. Perseverance is something where I think a lot of people fail. You just have to keep trying. But opportunities are sadly not entirely within our control. So I don’t think success is entirely up to the individual. I know successful people always like to say that you can accomplish anything you set your mind to but quite frankly that’s easy to say after you succeed. To some degree I do think luck or whatever you want to call it plays a role. But I also think there are things to do to maximize one’s chances, such as being prepared for opportunities if and when they arise. That kind of goes back to perseverance. But then I’m speaking from the viewpoint of a failure.

In any event, I think there’s an enormous amount to be learned from reading this script. And I for one will take away from it everything I can.


Breanne

Wow, I had a feeling I'd get something back like this.

So, AnotherWriter, you're telling me that you think this is a well written, great, pro script, huh? You think it's a unique, intriguing, and entertaining idea, like nothing you've ever seen before?  You think it's well put together?  Good characterization?  Believable relationships?  Strong, visuallly written action segments?  How about those fearsome creatures?  Scary stuff, huh?  Did you like the red ones, yellow ones, or blue ones the best (I'm sorry, I think there were also some striped ones, weren't there?)?

Whether or not you or anyone else thinks this is good, in no way means that it's better than something else, just because it's a "produced" script, from a "professional" screenwriter.  I'm curious what you will say when this thing bombs at the box office.  How many movies that are released (even with big budgets) actually have "good" or solid screenplays behind them, anyway?  Not many, really.

As Bre said (and I don't mean to put words into her mouth), this thing wouldn't go anywhere if it came from an unknown writer.  It would be shitcanned before anyone even knew what it was about.  Being a successful writer definitely involves some inherent talent, but also alot of luck.  You think that every single screenplay written by produced, professional screenwriters are great, just because they wrote them?  Look at the highs and lows of Joe Eszterhas, for instance.  Obviously we could all name numerous writers who have written great scripts, as well as horrid ones.  And there's also many pro writers who've written nothing but garbage...c'mon, man, get real.

Let's hear some things that are so great about this script.  I'm an inexperienced, frustrated newbie who wants to learn from the masters.  Please, enlighten me.

  

Breanne - I think you should have left your review. It was insightful and brought up many valid points.  I especially would like to agree with you about the rope.

I have to agree that this isn't the best written script I've read.  Too many times during the script his asides and choice of language took me out of the story.  The fact that it is getting produced and others aren't simply indicates to me that someone somewhere along the line who was able to greenlight it was caught by the story.  Either that or they thought it would make money either because of the content or because of who was attached to it.

Was I caught by the story?  Not really.  Sure I would enjoy watching it because I like sci-fi.  But I have to agree this script had it's plot holes and weak points.  I thought the Corvin bit at the beginning was too obvious and underexplained.  I also thought the relationship between Ryker and Mills was not clear until much later in the script than it should have been.  And that whole thing with the little pill seemed to be little more than pro-life propaganda.

The characters in this script were not the highpoint but certainly the world the writer created was.  But even that was flawed.  The different creatures that were generated by the hook ants were just too convenient. Far better to take the ant analogy further and have them overcome their problems by their ingenuity and their hive nature.  That would have been much more frightening.      

I'm going to begin reading it this weekend.

It's been a hard couple of days because I've been stressing over my kitty cat, Merlin. He's been sick with that urological syndrome, but it had resolved itself the last time.

I couldn't have took him in yesterday really because there was a tanker truck that flipped and another truck that closed our big highway-- the #2 from the morning until late at night and the traffic was being diverted onto the small 2A that I take into Olds. It was so bad that I was travelling 20 miles an hour-- if I was traveling at all because there was a lot of stopping.

Anyways, I took him in today and he's back home now and feeling better already. He's on antibiotics because he had a bladder infection. Now, I've got him on a special diet to minimize the development of crystals which he's been prone to. I feel like I can work again finally; so I'll get to reading this one this weekend.

Pia, you're not insane; you're passionate and this is something to be admired.

Sandra

Sandra,

I hope Merlin will be okay!!  ;(

Regarding the little disagreement about this script, I lack the ability to get my point across a lot of the time so please forgive me if I don't accomplish that here either.
I read a LOT of scripts. Some produced, some non produced (pre-pro). I've read some really great ones and some REALLY bad ones. I may not be able to tell you exactly why, I think Mr. Z and Another Writer comes closest to my views, but regardless of writing style and everything else, there was something about this script that kept my attention from page one and that's something that is often missing in the non pro scripts. I think that might be something that H-wood readers saw too...  

Good job Cornetto, I think you're right on.  I'm in complete agreement with ya.  And the fact that you're a scifi fan, makes your comments even more appropriate.  Bottom line that I agree with, is that this script, or maybe story is the better way to make this point, isn't that interesting or "great".  Nothing that will make this commercially successful, IMO.

Pia, as I said earlier, and always will say, everyone has their own opinion on everything, be it a script, a painting, a song, whatever.  It comes down to personal choice, or opinion, and that's what makes the world go round!  Nothing wrong with differing view points, cause we're all gonna have them.

Sorry for my earlier rant, but that AnotherWriter took things to a different level, and a level that we don't need to go to.  We're all just offering our own opinions here and that makes for good discussion.  No need to make any universal assumptions or attacks, based on what someone likes or doesn't like.  I really don't appreciate the comments made, and think they were way out of line.

I've tried to back up everything I've said with examples, and if someone wants to add opposing viewpoints, that's totally cool, as that's what this Script Club stuff is all about.

I just hope that everyone in here bases their opinions on the source material, and not read in that because it's a produced screenplay from a professional screenwriter that it's "great".  There are so many examples of produced scripts from pro writers that are downright terrible, and that is a fact that cannot be argued.

I say we move on to another aspect of this script...what do you think people?

Hope you're all cool with what I'm saying and where I'm coming from.

Quoted from AnotherWriter Seriously?!  You think there are writers here that write "far" better than these A-List pros?!  I can't help but smile at that notion.

If you read scripts here, you would already know the answer which is F@#$%&G YEEESSS.
Sorry i got carried away hehe. Man, leave that Worldplay article we all know them, and tell me this if i'm right "Screenplay is visual writing" or this is a notion that is used in Europe. Now, where in God's name where there visuals. There was more like "He know there is no f*****g way out" gimme a break please.

And read some of Mr.Z scripts which are great in visuals and everything. Z for me is far better than those guys. And another question to you: Stephen Gregg & Scott Burn, what other have they done????? Are they really pro? Because the pro which is Michael Brandt said in a podcast these boys came with these idea to us, and they were about to make a rewrite or something. Be realistic. Give this script to Terry Rossio and you'll probably see another column at worldplay . Screenplay is visual storytelling.

Now another thing you guys, did you notice there is not Computer that talks in the ship? This is like the thing with the belts when they enter in the planet's atmosphere

Cheers
Nik

Well finally got round to reading this today from my sickbed - a really severe case of Man flu (i.e a slight cold but I am milking it for all it has got! )

I tend to think the writing in a screenplay is like a picture frame, its existence should be almost invisible to my conscious. If anyone has anything at all, good or bad, to say about the writing style then I would maybe think that the writer has not done their job 100% correctly. A great picture needs a plain frame, while an overly ornate or detailed frame might actually be trying to compensate for an inferior painting. I might be wrong in that, but it makes sense to me anyway, if the story and structure is strong enough then we really do not need the writing getting in the way of telling us the story. I think this writer did a good enough job, I read this screenplay and the action just flowed from page to page and only a couple of times do I remember being pulled out of the story or stopping to think about something the writer said  - more on that later. So I can only say that this was for the most part a nicely framed screenplay. It is worth noting however that i use swear words in my language and the really weird thing is not once did I notice any swear words in this script! How odd? I am only aware of it because of the comments on here.

Anyway, None of that probably makes any sense and you lot are probably thinking what the hell am I on? Haha, maybe I am a little doped up at the moment with lemsips. Anyway enough of the frame and onto the painting...


First of all, and nobody I think has mentioned this yet, what about the title? I think it is pretty crap as far as titles goes. I can see it related to the time counting down to when they died in the previous time, but i don't know, surely a better title could be found that sums up this movie more nicely. I mean, Countdown could really just be some mindless sci-fi action flick with Claude Van Dam in it. Anyway, that was my first thought when I finished reading it.

Just reading back on the comments I would agree fully that Act One ends on page 32 with them revealing the name of the "other" ship. I don't think it is when they find their own bodies, finding their own ship is the first major plot point and thus the end of the act. I would say the Second Act ends with the ship taking off again in an attempt to go and get help. The screenplay in this regard is perfectly paced with each act being very close to a third of the script in length. The inciting incident should appear very early in the script and this one is probably a little late coming on page 7, but it is the moment they realise that the probe is faulty and means they must land on the planet "blind". As people have already said I think there is slightly different rules for Sci-Fi and the initial set-up is often a bit longer as we are establishing a world that is unfamiliar to us, so page 7 seems a good time to introduce us to what the plot of the movie for the first time. Though it is worth noting that in this case I am not sure the writer has given us a world unfamiliar to us at all really, there is nothing about the ship that we have not already seen. This is hardly Arthur C Clarke here, we are not breaking new ground, but it certainly does help us quickly find our feet. Saying that though, the exercise sequence was well done and original but is really just a set piece and if I was to be cynical I would say it provides a nice opportunity to get some "Nike space gear" product placement into the movie. In fact if someone had told me that the studio has asked for this scene to be added primarily for that reason I would have little trouble believing it .

And here lies my first problem, at the top of page 7 we have Finn turning into Basil Exposition and giving us the plot in a nice tidy package by explaining it to the crew. I cringed when I read that and think it is lazy writing. You would probably get away with it in an episode of CSI Miami but I would like to think that an experienced screenwriter would be able to handle exposition in a better way than this. Am I really expected to believe that he is saying something the crew really do not know already? This could have been much better as a conversation, maybe one of the crew asking "so how many probes have they sent out now", "ten thousand? wow, never realized it was that many. ten thousand and only four of them found a planet with hope?, never ceases to amaze me how big this universe is" etc.. etc..  You could easily get the same amount of information to the reader/viewer but make it a little more realistic.

That, plus the title and one or two other things in the screenplay make me think that this is going to be marketed as more of a mainstream action flick rather than a sci-fi thriller/drama. I might be wrong but you would expect dialogue like that in an action movie. And looking at the writers C.V. that would certainly make sense.

Sticking to the first act I think that once we get the inciting incident out of the way then the build up and establishing of character is handled fairly well. It does indeed follow a basic and expected formula, I would hesitate to use the word cliche, but all the ingredients are there as one would expect. The wise and experienced captain, the love interest, the Company man who is on the ship to make sure that orders are followed. There is a black woman, an asian man and an East Indian woman to make sure all out bases are covered with regard to race but of course our 3 main characters are all white. This does cause me a problem by the way, I would only ever specify a characters race in a screenplay if it was important to the plot that that person was a certain race, I really do not understand why the character introductions tell us the race of the three people who are not Caucasian, are we saying that a black actor cannot play Ryker or Finn? Is there really any reason given that either of these two cannot be black?

But the first act gives us a good premise, there is an original idea going on here but it is wrapped up in familiarity, anyone who has seen Alien/s or Sunshine knows this world already, it is not difficult to sell the set-up to the viewer and therefore we can concentrate on unravelling the plot. This is clearly a screenwriter who has read Syd Field, as has been discussed, all the plot points are there, inciting incident etc.. and he even produces an excellent piece of conflict early on with the Corvin storylne and in the process delivers us an antagonist nice and early. I say an antagonist because obviously as the story progresses we realize that Finn is not really the antagonist of the movie at all, but it is important I think that we have one during the first half of the movie and Finn is a good stand-in. Most people who watch Sci-Fi and have an awareness of the genre will know that usually the antagonist turns out to be the planet they are on, or the alien they have found and I while I never did believe than Finn was really the antagonist of the story it certainly needed him to be one for the first 50 or so pages. While Finn's character was incredibly cliched and nothing we have not already seen in Aliens it was still well done and without it this would have been quite a tiresome and boring first act. - Haha, a bit like this post time to wrap it up I think.

I just want to add that I think this thread has been brilliant so far, It is exactly what I had hoped the script club would be like. I like probably everyone on here have read the books but I always had problems with them. I hate the whole idea of writing by numbers and Syd Field always makes me feel exactly like that. But as this script clearly highlights there is probably nothing more important that how a screenplay is structured and pieced together. You may say the story is the most important thing, I think that only applies to great films. I think most of what Hollywood churns out are not great films with great stories but because they are written to the formula can still be very entertaining and will make money. My first goal is to write screenplays that sell, my overall goal is to write great screenplays but I do not believe that the former is dependent on the latter.

This is not a great screenplay in the grand scheme of things, the story was not that great and I doubt it will make a really great movie. But despite one or two issues I have with it it is a well written screenplay and there is no reason not to think this movie will go on and make it's money. If someone on these boards had written it I would certainly have heaped praise on them for their technical ability to craft a script that would be certain to sell as well as a story that while being pretty average was engaging enough to make me want to keep reading. Despite what people are saying there is very little on these boards that could be considered in the same class as this script as far as screenwriting craft goes. I could maybe go along with the idea that there are one or two better writers on here, but not screenwriters, i think there are some people who are getting close though.

I was purposefully avoiding commenting on the writing style, because I know what kind of discussion would that issue spark.

Many of us know: http://www.simplyscripts.net/cgi-bin/Blah/Blah.pl?b-screenwrite/m-1205877916/s-new/

Clearly, there are two schools of thought, and they’ll reach an agreement the day hell freezes.

But since it has been brought up, for the record, I’ll say I’m with Anotherwriter on this one. I think the writing style was pretty good. I won’t try to explain why I think this nor I will try to convince anyone about my point of view; I think this horse has been beaten to death in the thread linked above.

Quoted from Murphy but i don't know, surely a better title could be found that sums up this movie more nicely.

You know, while the title doesn’t bother me, I agree with you. I think they need to find a title that conveys something more specific of this world. Like “Minority Report” in Tom Cruise’s movie.

Quoted from Murphy And here lies my first problem, at the top of page 7 we have Finn turning into Basil Exposition and giving us the plot in a nice tidy package by explaining it to the crew. I cringed when I read that and think it is lazy writing.

Overall, I think the exposition was well handed, but I agree with you here. I also had the feeling that Finn was spitting out information that the rest of the crew should know already (so it was for the audience’s benefit). This bit could definitely use a polish.

Quoted from Murphy This does cause me a problem by the way, I would only ever specify a characters race in a screenplay if it was important to the plot that that person was a certain race

I might be wrong, but I think these characters were given different races in order to help the reader visualise them. It would be a bitch to tell apart these guys from each other if the whole crew was formed by young good looking Caucasians.

Quoted from Murphy are we saying that a black actor cannot play Ryker or Finn?

Something tells me that if Denzel shows interest in playing Ryker, his character would automatically change colors.

Quoted from Murphy I say an antagonist because obviously as the story progresses we realize that Finn is not really the antagonist of the movie at all

This is an interesting angle. I think this script shows that while antagonists are usually necessary to sustain the dramatic tension, the antagonist doesn’t have to be a person. It could be a force.

The antagonist here, IMHO, is fate. It’s an invisible antagonist, but it’s definitely there. That’s what the characters are fighting against. Not the first time I see this approach (Final Destination, anyone?).

Question to our hostess: Can we officially move to the second act?