Ok... retract my last post...

Oh my Pia, I’m sorry. I don’t know what to do now. What do you want me to do?

I think having two separate threads is an excellent idea!!!!

All serious people will try and devote time to both I would hope.

I really do see the benefits of discussing both produced and amateur scripts. It would be interesting too, to see the difference and similarities in the threads.

Sandra

I do not agree.

I do not think SS is big enough to sustain two threads at the same time.

I feel that the unproduced SS writer's scripts will suffer, but that's just my opinion.

I would have suggested one produced then one unproduced and so on, but if these produced ones are what you want to do. Go ahead. Personally I can't participate right now because I'm reading three scripts by unproduced writers.

Quoted from Grandma Bear I do not agree. I do not think SS is big enough to sustain two threads at the same time. I feel that the unproduced SS writer's scripts will suffer, but that's just my opinion. I would have suggested one produced then one unproduced and so on, but if these produced ones are what you want to do. Go ahead. Personally I can't participate right now because I'm reading three scripts by unproduced writers.

Pia, I’m sorry. That was a concern for me. The only reason I ever considered it was because we weren’t allowed to discuss the salability issue here in this thread. There were things I wanted to discuss that the Script Club didn’t allow.

Doing a produced script here is fine for looking at ways to improve but if anyone wants to discuss salability and marketability, there wasn’t anywhere to do that.

Sorry. I’m not sure what to do now. Bert???? Help!!!!


Breanne

Who said we weren't allowed to discuss salability?

Who said we didn't allow something?

I thought everything was up for discussion as long as we tried to stick to one topic at the time.

Okay I don’t know what’s going on here. I was told I needed a separate thread to discuss those things. I don’t want to start an argument here. This is all stuff that’s been ongoing in this thread.

For most of this time I’ve wanted to discuss the salability issue. I thought Verdugo had a valid point about studying the characteristics of a sold script rather than looking at how to improve it. Plus Verdugo isn’t interested in discussing how to improve a sold script. I felt we would lose valuable input if we cut him out of the discussion.

I felt there was value in both avenues of discussion so I asked if I needed a new thread to discuss salability and was told I did.

I’m confused. And I don’t want to cause more problems.

Bert?????? Help!!!!!!

Breanne asked this question

Quoted from Breanne Mattson Well, there you go. Can’t get any plainer than that. So how about shifting the discussion to the points here? 1) Understanding the market 2) Writing the script 3) Making the deal Thanks Verdugo. Or do we need a separate thread for this? Breanne

I told her another thread.

Though number two falls into the scope of why the script club was started.  Number one and number three fall out of that scope.

They do deserve discussion but they have nothing to do with analysis of a script.

I think that if people are afraid that the scripts here will suffer from reads due to a separate thread, then it is at the discretion of those in charge to determine and then we should all follow along with whatever that may be.

If we are feeling in desperate need of dissecting and discussing produced scripts, there are other ways to do it without upsetting the balance here.

I know this is a difficult thing because we enter into "time management" issues-- and these are both personal as well as public concerns here.

Sandra

What an interesting thread!

There has been so much debate here, and personally i think this script club was very informative in many aspects. I learned from it. Can't wait for the next script club, and is weird because I was thinking to send a PM to Pia, suggesting The Wrestler but Shelton got it on time. Yes, Pia you were a great hostess

So, to get back to the script, Countdown has many plot holes and the strange thing is that if I was the writer I would have probably passed it till I’d had the solution for those plot holes; the last one Bre mentioned is huge. Guess I have to change my way of choosing ideas...

Now, what makes this script better than the other scripts here? Personally nothing, but I see something Countdown has that many of the scripts here do not and the fact is that Countdown is commercial. The script has commercial values that scripts here do not have.

But I stay faithful to my earlier post saying that I believe that here are some writers that could pull off script like this. For the high concept that Z pointed out, I give credit for it to Matheson not the writers. I think some writers (and this is my opinion) on the board write scripts for franchises that have been already produced. There are scripts about Friday 13, Halloween (if I’m not wrong) and many other well known films. So what's the point in writing something nobody will get his hands off? To me, it would be better to find an article or a short story and try to get permission and develop something out of it. It's more rewarding.

Breanne, what you have said is true. I have one suggestion for you. I know you are a good writer and i know you can pull off many things, but it's kind of hard that someone will come and knock at your door so easily. So, why not try and shoot a short script you've already written? You will get noticed more this way and probably you will discover more about film and your own abilities. I suggest this because I consider myself a director first, but I love writing.

AnotherWriter, your comments have been insightful, I’m curious to know if i can read a script of yours somewhere. And could you tell us the name of that script that was placed highly on Nicholls contest?

The way i came to know about Countdown, is from a podcast of Michael Brandt where he talks about the script and the guys who wrote it, and he says that he will direct it. So i was more interested to know about his directing duty, and I admit that i will watch the movie when it comes out. But now I’m curious to read more from the other writers Scott Burn & Stephen Gregg, perhaps Verdugo or AnotherWriter can tell us if there is something else from these guys.
And i like Z's question to Verdugo hehe.

I have some suggestions for the other Script Club, the scripts are:

The Wrestler (as Shelton suggested before)
Changeling
Blindness
W
Imaginarium Of dr.Parnassus
Valkyrie
Shutter Island

Many scripts here I know, but I think these are pretty interesting and they're not so commercial. I can provide the chosen script. Let's keep Script Club up and I personally want to thank everyone who contributed and posted here. THANKS
Cheers
Nik

Nick, thank YOU, for giving a big thanks and yes I agree, we should keep this around.

The dialogue here has been excellent-- including Brea and GM's debate. I don't think it took away from the thread, I think it added to it.

Sandra

Okay, I did write a comment on Breannes thread but realise now I should have come here first. I will leave my comment there as I still believe in what i said, but perhaps you guys are right and seem to have sorted in out anyway.

My only issue was with the idea of spending time trying to improve a script that has generated allot of interest in Hollywood anyway instead of learning from it. I am dying to try an analogy but it might be seen as really poor, but what the hell. Too me it is like reading Toy Story and suggesting it would be a much better script with a gunfight and a sex scene. There is no doubt it may make it a better movie for us to watch but it certainly would not help sell it to the market it was intended for. So instead of spending time discussing how to make it better for us would it not be better spending time trying to work out why it got so much interest as a kids movie in the first place?

I wrote this on Breannes thread..

Quoted Text One thing that very rarely gets discussed here at Simply Scripts is the commercial appeal of the script. i.e. actually writing a script with a clear idea in mind of who the audience is, how much money can we get from them and from there what is the maximum our script can cost to produce. It was only this week that I realized how crazy that was that we never discuss it because this is without doubt the most important thing in the mind of anybody who is in the position to say yes or no to our script.

Hollywood is a business where people invest a heap of money into movie projects with the main objective of making a return on their investment. If all we are doing is just writing a spec script and hoping that somebody likes it then we are relying on a huge slice of luck. But I have to think that we can begin to think like salespeople when writing our scripts i.e. find out what the market wants first and then write to meet that demand. Reading scripts that have managed to do that and together trying to understand how surely must be a good thing?

Maybe I am full of crap, please do not be afraid to tell me if I am. After all I don't have time to waste, like everybody else here I have a real life too. But I am prepared to put my time into anything that would increase my chances of writing a script that can sell.

Quoted from Murphy My only issue was with the idea of spending time trying to improve a script that has generated allot of interest in Hollywood anyway instead of learning from it. I am dying to try an analogy but it might be seen as really poor, but what the hell. Too me it is like reading Toy Story and suggesting it would be a much better script with a gunfight and a sex scene. There is no doubt it may make it a better movie for us to watch but it certainly would not help sell it to the market it was intended for. So instead of spending time discussing how to make it better for us would it not be better spending time trying to work out why it got so much interest as a kids movie in the first place?

Any script can be improved.  Just because someone got paid for it does not mean it is perfect. In all likelihood Countdown will change before it is released.   A great deal can be learned as an exercise from finding the weak points in professional scripts and looking at how you can fix them.  People get paid to do that too.

The problem I have with discussing the marketing is that it is pure speculation and because of that the ability to learn from it is diminished.  We were lucky because Verdugo came to visit and he did tell us what market Countdown was aimed for.  Otherwise we wouldn't have known.  We could have decided it was for an entirely different market than it was actually for (actually we did because we thought it was being marketed for the states).  

And if we're wrong about the market how do we learn from that?  Do we learn the wrong thing from that?  I confused about how you think we learn anything from speculation.

I think both discussions have value -- produced and unproduced -- and I also see the value in keeping those discussions separate.

Am I reading this wrong -- it seems that people are concerned about these two discussions running concurrently?

There is room -- and apparently interest -- for both if you run them one at a time.  A "pro" script club and a "non-pro" script club.

Just do not do them at the same time, or both will suffer.

And I agree with comments that your "pro" discussion would benefit from clearly defined goals at the outset.

The thread will thrive or perish based upon participation -- just like any other thread -- and then you will know for sure.

I do not see a problem here.

Quoted from mcornetto Any script can be improved.  Just because someone got paid for it does not mean it is perfect. In all likelihood Countdown will change before it is released.   A great deal can be learned as an exercise from finding the weak points in professional scripts and looking at how you can fix them.  People get paid to do that too. The problem I have with discussing the marketing is that it is pure speculation and because of that the ability to learn from it is diminished.  We were lucky because Verdugo came to visit and he did tell us what market Countdown was aimed for.  Otherwise we wouldn't have known.  We could have decided it was for an entirely different market than it was actually for (actually we did because we thought it was being marketed for the states).   And if we're wrong about the market how do we learn from that?  Do we learn the wrong thing from that?  I confused about how you think we learn anything from speculation.

Michael, As soon as I got to the 2nd act I was under no illusions at all what market this movie was aimed for. If you read all of my comments on this script I have always clearly said that this was a popcorn movie, an action movie for 15-25 year olds that will get bums on seats. I even specifically made reference to the crowd that went to watch the Mummy sequel before Verdugo said the same thing. So it is somewhat strange to hear you say that Verdugo enlightened "us" all so much when really Verdugo has echoed what I had always been saying. Honestly, this business aint that different to any other business and thinking it is is probably not gonna help you go forward. You think it is speculation? fair enough, I personally do not. As someone who has a very keen interest in movies, who watches movies of all kinds I think I am qualified enough to have an opinion that is more than just speculation. But I would have thought that the same would go for everybody else on these boards, you really think that the business of making movies is just too complicated for any of us to really understand?  And you are a screenwriter?

Yes, any script can be improved, you are right. Maybe we could whip out The Godfather and discuss how leaving the gun taped in the toilet was a really weak idea. A major plot moment hanging on the fact that the cleaner was not working that day, terrible writing. So we could fix up The Godfather and that makes us better writers, co's at least then we know we can write a script better than The Godfather.

But hey, I know when the horse has been flogged to death and I am certainly getting close, I tried anyway.

Maybe I am wrong, sounds like I am. But it ain't gonna change my mind. I would like to be part of a discussion that wanted to learn from scripts that have been SUCCESSFUL already but I am not going to waste my time if the aim is to try and turn them into something else If you really think there is anything to learn there then good, go for it and good luck to you. Really, I mean it.