Missed that one

Ok, guys. All out of your systems?  Since Me doesn't seem to be around I will ask can we keep this on topic please?  We are discussing the script, not Hollywood.  We have determined that we don't fully understand why it was produced and are not likely to gain any more information on this matter unless we talk to the producer.   I think we have also discussed the difference between this and unproduced scripts enough to establish that it causes arguments and we should avoid that topic.  

I for one think there are plenty of plot holes in this, Brea mentioned a number of them in one of her posts.  Do you think that the movie makers will correct any or do you think they will leave them in?  How do you think they can correct them?

Quoted from Dreamscale GM, based on your last post, I think you're basically admitting that what Bre has been saying all along is correct then.  If this script doesn't contain a great story, great characters, well written action, why is it being produced with a huge budget?  It's because of who they are and connections they obvioulsy have. I mean c'mon, it's begining to sound like more people in here don't think very much of this idea, concept, and the actual writing (finally).  Are you saying that no one in here could write a better script than this, based on the Matheson story?  I have a feeling that many of us could come up with much better ideas, action, characters, and conflict, and I think we could easily make it "look" better also. If this was entered in a competition, against 100 other similar scripts, you think this would rise above the rest?  Why?  What are we missing here?  And why do you continue to support this thing when you've said over and over that it's not a movie you would see, it's a weak story with weak characters, and plot holes?  Do you think the action scenes are well written or put together?  Do you like the creatures? What makes this thing so great?  I just don't understand.  Maybe it's cause I'm an inexperienced newbie who doesn't know a great script when it shoots a barb out of it's mouth at me.

Dreamscale, we are not reviewing this movie. That I am sure was never the point of the Script Club. If I were to review it I would say it was crap, if I watched the movie I would say it was crap. But, I also think National Treasure was crap and how much money have those movies made?

We need to separate our feelings of the movie from our breakdown of the writing, I am very comfortable in putting my dislike of the story aside in order to discuss the script. As I have said countless times while the premise appealed to me greatly once reading the script and realizing what direction it has taken I am no longer interested in seeing it.

Yes there are certainly many ways this script could be changed that would make it more appealing to me, but that does not mean to say it would make it better for you. Art of course is subjective, you cannot trash a script just because you do not like it.

When reviewing a script we have to put it into context otherwise we are just comparing 2 Fast 2 Furious to The Godather II, not a good idea as any of us here are far more likely to break our teeth on the former rather than the latter.

It frustrates me to see all these people that I know for a fact to be otherwise sane and rational types taking barbs at one another.

I glanced over this script.  It is alright.  If posted here, my review would probably boil down to, "So, this is pretty good -- but what is with all the underlining?"

While this conversation has not proceeded down the path that most (apparently) had hoped, it is interesting for sure, and not without value.

To paraphrase just about everyone on this thread, I think the general consensus is, "Hey, I can do that!  Maybe even better!"

I contend that has value in and of itself.  And it is quite fair to state that this is probably true.  For some.

But those who have not read a fair sampling of our works look a bit ass-like when they jump in and call us hopelessly naïve for saying so.

Anyways, the flaws in this story have been beaten to death.

I think an interesting topic to pursue -- should people be floundering about for one -- would be:

"If this story sucks so hard, how would you -- specifically -- make it better?"

First of all, I think the characters need to be fleshed out quite a bit more.  I think they need something that makes them come off as real, as people we can root for.  For me, that means more dialogue between them.  We don't see anything that makes us believe they even know each other.

I said earlier that I believe the first act needs to be longer, and we need to have a chance to see who these characters are.  I'm not saying alot longer, but maybe some scenes talking about their loved ones, their fears, their interests...something!

That way, we would probably feel more for them when things start to break down, which happens pretty quickly.

That would be a good place to start IMO.

So Breanne is allowed to edit my posts and make it look like a rant but I my response pointing that out gets deleted?

There was no rant, Breanne clearly took certain lines from my post and stuck them all together to make them look like a rant at her.

And Breanne, I was only responding to the following...

Quoted from Breanne Mattson I feel I have a talent that’s being wasted and I don’t think the writers of Countdown earned their very large paychecks with this project. And I think it’s a disgrace they make so much money while I languish as a writer. Breanne

That to me is an attitude that will get you nowhere in life.

Quoted from Dreamscale I said earlier that I believe the first act needs to be longer, and we need to have a chance to see who these characters are.  I'm not saying alot longer, but maybe some scenes talking about their loved ones, their fears, their interests...something!

And I will start the ball rolling by disagreeing.  In a friendly sort of way, of course.

While I skimmed most of the script, I did read the first act.

And for an action flick -- which this is -- I had all the character development I needed, really.

I thought the first act was too long.  I was ready for some creatures.

------------------

Edit:  Gary, I modded your last angry post at Brea.  I see you've made another.  We are moving on.  Please cut it out -- as I am sure Brea will if I ask her politely. [Brea, this is me asking politely...]

I predict you and Brea will like each other a great deal eventually if you both start afresh.

OK Bert, since you're being freindly, I will too!  

Think back to "Alien", a movie that worked on all angles.  How long was the opening act there?  Or better yet, how long beore we got to see the actual alien?  There were numerous scenes involving the various characters...eating, walking, talking...just being real people.  Even after all Hell broke loose, there was still lots of characterization going on, and that's why it really mattered when each character was put in a horrifiic situation.

That's not the case here at all.  I don't have a clue who any of these people are, now did I care based on the lack of effort to develop any of them.

Quoted from mcornetto Since Me doesn't seem to be around

I'm around Michael...

Just didn't want to end up in the middle of an argument.

I liked this script, but several people said it must have been written for ten year old boys or teenage boys. I'm not a teenage boy, I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express once though...

Quoted from Dreamscale Think back to "Alien", a movie that worked on all angles.  How long was the opening act there?  Or better yet, how long beore we got to see the actual alien?  There were numerous scenes involving the various characters...eating, walking, talking...just being real people.  Even after all Hell broke loose, there was still lots of characterization going on, and that's why it really mattered when each character was put in a horrifiic situation. That's not the case here at all.  I don't have a clue who any of these people are, now did I care based on the lack of effort to develop any of them.

Hmm...I was thinking of Alien, too, oddly enough.  How funny you should bring it up.

Yes, they were eating and talking, but what did we really learn about any of them?  Anything?

Or were we just sitting around going, "Man, I can't wait until the Alien shows up..."

Frankly, I was.  But then, I forget who I am talking to here.  The King of the Long Buildup haha.  I kid, I kid.

Here, in Countdown, I seem to recall a conversation involving children and godchildren, and pregnancy even.  Also, somebody pointed out that -- visually -- that exercise scene revealed quite a bit about the individual characters.  Particularly that guy who was exercising with just his mind.

I would say -- and don't sue me for this -- the first 20 minutes of Countdown tells us MORE about these characters than the first 20 minutes of Alien.

What do you say to that?

Well, these are just some ideas so feel free to slap them down. These are just some general thoughts too.

First off Ryker - he’s the main character and he’s boring as shit. Mills is as stale a moldy bread.

Daya is terrific - later. Not initially but as she develops, I really like her sense of commitment to duty. She develops inevitably into a great character. Far more interesting than Mills.

Finn is a better character than Ryker. In fact, Finn will be more interesting to the target audience. So I say….



Finn and Daya should be the leads. Ryker should become the villain. Ryker is the murderer who killed Finn a thousand times over. He should turn out to be the real villain and Finn should be played up as a sort of antihero.

When Finn’s body isn’t found, they should all suspect him of murder. Finn should be a philosophical outcast. The teen male audience loves philosophical outcasts.

I’m not sure about the monsters being vegetarians either. I’m afraid the target audience might get pissed to find out the monsters are vegetarians. It’s kind of the monster version of emasculation -- haha.

The shockwave needs to be something that would happen whether they take off in the ship or not but something they can stop. I like that they decide to sacrifice themselves. And that needs to stay in some capacity. But something has to happen prior to their landing that is at least partly responsible for the original crash.

Edit -- I also think this needs to come down to the final two characters, not three.

A few thoughts.


Breanne

Only because we are going off track.

Pia is right, it was written for 10 year old boys. How would adding more character development and turning it into Alien make this a better movie for 10 year old boys? It would make it a better movie for us maybe, but I think most of us are in agreement that this movie was not made for us.

So we are talking about changing the movie to appeal to us more as film goers rather than discussing the merits of this movie as it stands, as aimed for the action crowd.

It makes no sense. This is not supposed to be a film review thread, why can we not just discuss the produced script we have read instead of trying to find a way to make it better (in our minds - this whole question is subjective remember).

Quoted from Dreamscale Think back to "Alien", a movie that worked on all angles.  How long was the opening act there?  Or better yet, how long beore we got to see the actual alien?  There were numerous scenes involving the various characters...eating, walking, talking...just being real people.  Even after all Hell broke loose, there was still lots of characterization going on, and that's why it really mattered when each character was put in a horrifiic situation.

I totally agree with you about Alien, but you can't compare two movies that are separated by - what will soon be - three decades. Back in the '70s Hollywood allowed movies to build slowly and to create an actual atmosphere - yeah, even their blockbusters. This - unfortunately - rarely happens nowadays and unless you're gunning for an Best Picture win at the Oscar's (which neither Alien or Countdown was/is) this is the preferred style.

Quoted from Murphy This is not supposed to be a film review thread, why can we not just discuss the produced script

Just trying to get things back on track, Gary.

And we are starting to zero in on some of the flaws in this script -- real or perceived -- that are central to writing.

Dreamscale got us started on "Characters and Character Development" -- which is a vital topic in any script, no?

Quoted from bert Dreamscale got us started on "Characters and Character Development" -- which is a vital topic in any script, no?

I am not sure, It is a vital element in the movies I pay to go and see but I cannot say hand on heart that it really matters anymore in action scripts for the masses. The few movies I do see that would appeal to these audiences I generally find undeveloped characters lacking in real motivation other than a simple desire for something they want. I honesty believe that for the movie this script is trying to be that the characters are developed enough.  If this movie really does want to be Alien then of course the answer is no, if this movie wants to be Alien then it has fallen well short of the mark and is a complete failure. But it has no such pretensions, it is not trying to be anything better than a low brow, entertaining shoot 'em up with a Sci-Fi twist. So I am not sure it actually does need any further character development.