Quoted from ericdickson    I may put a disclaimer on all my title pages.   If you have no intention of compensating writer, please do not contact.           At least when I don't hear back, I'll know where I stand.   I may be onto something here.

Thank you, that’s all I was asking.

Yes this is probably an idea you could work with.

Quoted from LC Eric, I can only sympathise. The writer unfortunately (unless famous) is at the bottom of the totem pole. I've been in a slump when emails have gone unanswered after very excited filmmakers have signed on the dotted line for Shorts, and nothing has come of it. And also when scripts have been made without my knowledge or permission, and then made badly. I think you've had a particular run of bad luck with unconscionable people who've probably run out of money and are devoid of common courtesy. Perhaps the only way around it is in the fine details of the contract. You give them the Contract on your terms, not the other way around, unless of course it's Netflix et al. Get paid for the Option, an amount you specify, and/or for rewrites and then at least you've been financially compensated. You clearly have some sought after feature film scripts (and if names are attached) I'd be using that clout to acquire an Agent.

I think this is some good advice as well.

So much goes into getting that end result, maybe ensuring you are compensated correctly along the way will take some of the sting out of not getting all the way there if something falls through.

Yes, I deleted because I was wrong.  And it's not worth getting into a holy war over.    

I'm gonna have a beer and watch some Cheers on Netflix.    
      

I think most of us have stories like this. I wrote a script for a guy who wanted to keep it in his drawer and show to his friends. He paid... so I don't care what he does with it. I've written a feature too for a first-time wannabe producer, she also paid, who never did become a producer. A feature for a director who soured on the idea and went on to make something else. Not to mention all the shorts that have gone nowhere... or been made badly.

After 15 years though, I'd be pissed too. I started in 2014. I suppose it depends on your aims. If you're in this to make it as a writer as I am then every year that passes would make you angrier.

I feel that the most important thing a writer can have is hunger and the desire to succeed. Now you're single, and somewhat angry, inject that passion into your work and write the best thing you've ever written.

Thanks for the discussion on horrors and rules. I enjoyed reading your thoughts on the subject. Just to clarify, this isn’t a rant about people not scoring scripts because they insisted on rules, more of an exploration around if audiences would enjoy a horror if they didn’t understand the rules.

Vampires was mentioned a few times. One of the earliest stories about a vampire was Varney The Vampire, also known as The Feast Of Blood, written in 1845. If you have a lot of time on your hands (as it is huge) I’d recommend a read. It’s brilliant. The ‘Vampire’ in that isn’t given an explanation – it just is. It also doesn’t operate on the rules modern vampires operate under. Part of the horror of the story is this creature that shouldn’t exist, existing and doing horrible things.

Fast-forward to Freddie Kruger, Michael Myers and Jason Voorhees. Killers who go on rampages using supernatural means. In the original movies they just did coz they were bad people. Subsequent movies tried to explain their origin and instil some rules into their existence. These sucked.

A more modern horror movie, Us. I won’t go into specifics in case it spoils it for those who hasn’t seen in but the ‘explanation’ the movie comes up with makes no logical sense whatsoever. Neither does the twist in my opinion. However, what makes this movie enjoyable and such a success is the moments when the main characters are being chased and attacked by ‘Us’. They have no idea why, it’s a crazy situation but when you are being attacked it doesn’t matter if you are being attacked by something you believe is real and something that is impossible; you are being attacked. And it is obvious from the reviews the audience love this aspect, many don’t get or buy the explanation at all but it doesn’t matter – they enjoy the scary bits.

For me I think readers takes too much of a logical viewpoint when reviewing a script (and I’m not just on about the OWC but the industry in general) and say things like, I don’t think this is obvious enough, or this needs to be explained , or I don’t think the audience will get this and then they add stuff to make it ‘clearer’ not realising that audiences sat in the seat will go for the ride if they dig the characters and enjoy the action. The explanation is secondary.

The industry thinks the modern audience wants everything explained, I don’t think they do but that’s my opinion.


Thanks for the discussion. It has been fun.

As for the hijacking topic (grr lol!) about producers etc. going dark and silent after showing an interest in your work, I feel your pain and from the comments of others, we all do. Like Dustin, I only started on this journey around 2014 and there are dark days when I question everything.

I had a short filmed in December 2018 in New York. I last heard from the director in February and all was going great with post-production, since then nothing and he’s not answering my emails. Why? Why seek me out (which he did) option my script, work on it with me for 9 months, film it and then – wham…nothing? He may get back in touch at some point, I don’t know but why not send me an email just letting me know what’s going on?

I currently have 5 scripts optioned. Again, every one of the directors approached me, I didn’t go to them. 4 of the scripts are in limbo with the directors disappearing and one is currently progressing nicely but I have serious doubts this will ever see the light of day. However, I got paid for the option so the way I see it, at least I made some money from it and once the options expire, they all return to me.

So in the meantime, I carry on with new projects and promote existing ones. That’s all I can do. It’s all any of us can do. This seems to be the nature of this beast we are in. I know some folks who are further up the chain than me, with serious players and investments involved and it’s just the same, actually, it can get a whole lot nastier. Not answering emails and silently dropping projects is the least of their issues.

At least now you know you are not the only one, not sure if that helps or not but I hope it does!

Quoted from DustinBowcot I think most of us have stories like this. I wrote a script for a guy who wanted to keep it in his drawer and show to his friends. He paid... so I don't care what he does with it. I've written a feature too for a first-time wannabe producer, she also paid, who never did become a producer. A feature for a director who soured on the idea and went on to make something else. Not to mention all the shorts that have gone nowhere... or been made badly. After 15 years though, I'd be pissed too. I started in 2014. I suppose it depends on your aims. If you're in this to make it as a writer as I am then every year that passes would make you angrier. I feel that the most important thing a writer can have is hunger and the desire to succeed. Now you're single, and somewhat angry, inject that passion into your work and write the best thing you've ever written.

Thanks for sharing.  It seems we've all had similar experiences.    

Quoted from MarkRenshaw As for the hijacking topic (grr lol!) about producers etc. going dark and silent after showing an interest in your work, I feel your pain and from the comments of others, we all do. Like Dustin, I only started on this journey around 2014 and there are dark days when I question everything. I had a short filmed in December 2018 in New York. I last heard from the director in February and all was going great with post-production, since then nothing and he’s not answering my emails. Why? Why seek me out (which he did) option my script, work on it with me for 9 months, film it and then – wham…nothing? He may get back in touch at some point, I don’t know but why not send me an email just letting me know what’s going on? I currently have 5 scripts optioned. Again, every one of the directors approached me, I didn’t go to them. 4 of the scripts are in limbo with the directors disappearing and one is currently progressing nicely but I have serious doubts this will ever see the light of day. However, I got paid for the option so the way I see it, at least I made some money from it and once the options expire, they all return to me. So in the meantime, I carry on with new projects and promote existing ones. That’s all I can do. It’s all any of us can do. This seems to be the nature of this beast we are in. I know some folks who are further up the chain than me, with serious players and investments involved and it’s just the same, actually, it can get a whole lot nastier. Not answering emails and silently dropping projects is the least of their issues. At least now you know you are not the only one, not sure if that helps or not but I hope it does!

Telling me they are shooting in May less than two weeks ago and finding out this isn't even close to the truth is what confuses the hell out of me.  I get running out of post production money and abandoning the project for whatever reason.  

It boils down to making sure the other party is willing to pay for the option, right off the bat, and knowing how to put your foot down when they talk in circles.   I can't tell you how many times I've worked on rewrites for nothing.    

Quoted from ericdickson So, here we are.  And I am not sure I want to continue this journey as I've come to learn that most so called producers, filmmakers, directors you meet online are completely full of shit.  No one ever follows through with most of what comes out of their big mouths and it's a big slap in the face to the writers who have put so much time and effort into crafting their work.     I'm not sure I can call my self any kind of real screenwriter as I've discovered the last fifteen or so years has been all for not.  Dealing with frauds, fakers, jive ass producers with fake Imdb credentials and flashy instagrams and people who want something for nothing.   Has anyone else here ever gotten royally fucked??  Or am I a special case??  With regard to production, I've not once had a good experience with anyone.  I don't get it.

I hate to tell you, but you are not a special case. I think most of us who've been around for awhile have had the same frustrating experiences. We've been lied to, stolen from, pissed on and even shat on. It's frustrating and even depressing. Most of the time though, I think it's because people have big plans and ideas, but it's that "little" thing called money that grinds thing to a halt. From a producer/directors perspective, it's not easy making a film come together. Besides the costs involved, it's a little bit like herding cats. Your cast and crew can't always be relied on unless they get paid, then that part changes somewhat. Whenever I make a film I always try to show my appreciation for all involved's talent. Actors, DP, make-up and so on. The two times I have filmed something that someone else wrote, one of them basically just said, Thanks, when we showed him the film. He didn't care at all, so that was a little disappointing. The other time the writer was much more appreciative, but I learned something else. Something very depressing from a writer's point of view. It was a two day shoot and everyone including cast and crew had a paper copy of the script in their hands. On the second day, I asked everyone not to peek at the script and then asked if anyone could tell me the name of the writer. It was on the freaking cover page! No one knew the writer's name. I think when that realization hit me, it was one of the most depressing days in my writing experience. This is the reality and I hear it every day from writers.  We are the lowest rung on the ladder.  

Quoted from MarkRenshaw I had a short filmed in December 2018 in New York. I last heard from the director in February and all was going great with post-production, since then nothing and he’s not answering my emails. Why? Why seek me out (which he did) option my script, work on it with me for 9 months, film it and then – wham…nothing? He may get back in touch at some point, I don’t know but why not send me an email just letting me know what’s going on?

I wrote a script called Initiation. It caused a stir. Producers were fighting over it. At one point John Boyega was attached! But, here we are a few years later and the last guy interested filmed it, cut a trailer, see below, and then disappeared... WTF? I haven't heard from him in six months, so I'm thinking about putting the script up for availability again. I'm left scratching my head.

Meanwhile, Dena has a feature showing in Cannes. Big deal, but the director credited herself as writer and there's no mention of Dena. Talk about infuriating!    >

initiation from Indie Me on Vimeo.

I prefer to think of it as the 'first' rung on the ladder.

Have I got this right? Dena has written a feature showing in Cannes and the Director's claiming writing credit?!

Just infuriating?

That's surely not even legal, it's fraud, false representation in the least? There has to be some recourse with officialdom in Cannes. ??
...
Pia, Initiation is a terrific script. If the Option's run out definitely put it up as available again.

Quoted from Grandma Bear I wrote a script called Initiation. It caused a stir. Producers were fighting over it. At one point John Boyega was attached! But, here we are a few years later and the last guy interested filmed it, cut a trailer, see below, and then disappeared... WTF? I haven't heard from him in six months, so I'm thinking about putting the script up for availability again. I'm left scratching my head. Meanwhile, Dena has a feature showing in Cannes. Big deal, but the director credited herself as writer and there's no mention of Dena. Talk about infuriating!    > initiation from Indie Me on Vimeo.

Holy shit! Both of those are insane. This is a crazy industry we are in. Writers are seen in a poor light and are taken advantage of all the time.

Following up on the others.

I did not start writing until I was retired. I can assure you that if folks conducted themselves in the business world - public or private sector - like those in the film world do, they wouldn't hold on to their jobs. You all know the grind - false promises. misleading funding information, no response to emails, etc. etc.

After having gone through this many times I've just concluded t is just the nature of this industry.

1) We are primarily dealing with newbies on the production side. They not only new in the film industry, they've never worked in an industry where they developed and practiced standard business practices.

2) The script is the first rung on the latter. They have to get funding, distribution, actors, directors, etc. etc. as they go on - but they can get none of those without a script. So we will be always over promised and even lied to at the start of the process to that they can use our product to go and lie and over promise to the next person in the food chain.

I've now become pretty much inoculated. I take every thing with a grain of salt and just accept it for what it is. All you can do is protect your work. Every option I agree to now has fixed automatic expiration dates if a film isn't produced as an example. So I don't give a fuck any longer if they don't respond to emails. They get one from me when that date comes.