I have just one thing to say:


All the time that writers spend trying to perfect their technical style would be, in my humble opinion, better spent in coming up with fresh CONCEPTS.


99.9% of scripts written by pre-pros are dead before the pen even touches the page, the basic premise/concept simply isn't strong enough.

Quoted from eldave1 Hmmm. The line that you don't see that I just deleted was - "No, it's just a hobby because...." Then your comment about the competitions made me think (I fucking hate when that happens).   Hmmm, again. At age 20, I wanted to write (sports Journalist of all things). Instead, I got married, had two children by age 23 and spent the next 35 years as a government employee. Didn't write anything other than reports and presentations on subjects that bored me to tears. So after retirement, I started writing and have labeled it a hobby. Your comment gave me pause. No, I wouldn't enter competitions or engage here if it were merely a hobby. Hmmm again. I think I'm trying to recapture lost time or maybe through some success at it demonstrating that I could have been a writer instead of a bureaucrat. And now that I think about it, what end would that serve? Hmmm. Okay - I think I'm going to open a thread one day about 'Why One Writes? - just not today. I'm still hmmmming.

Eldave1
I was gonna write something in a different post, but, I will respond here.  I hope you don't stop writing and bury your story (u had said that).  Writers' block does suck.  Sometimes, taking a few days, or even weeks away does wonders.

Or use this site and post the issue, and perhaps one of the peeps on here might offer you a way out of the writers' block.  One thing this site seems to have a lot of, personality.  All different types with backgrounds, specialists etc.  So, instead of getting frustrated, I'd write a post about it.

I'm not as old as you, but, I turn 50 this year (actually, my spine is older then u as it turns 150, but, I digress) and I'm just getting back into writing.  I'm getting into the swing of it, and i won't lie, it's been hard.  But, after a crazy OWC, I feel a bit better.  I got some good feedback and as I work on the 250 script and a few other stories, including a few shorts, I am hopeful that I can make them better then they were.  

So, keep plugging away and ask us for advice or help.  I know I'm always willing to help out if I can.  No harm in asking, right?

Hope that helps.
Dan

Quoted from Scar Tissue Films I have just one thing to say: All the time that writers spend trying to perfect their technical style would be, in my humble opinion, better spent in coming up with fresh CONCEPTS. 99.9% of scripts written by pre-pros are dead before the pen even touches the page, the basic premise/concept simply isn't strong enough.

Hasn't every concept been done a lot?  So, what is original anymore?

Quoted from DanC Hasn't every concept been done a lot?  So, what is original anymore?

Sharknado!!!!!!!!!!!!  

It took me a while to figure out what I wanted from taking my writing public. At first I thought it might be money or fame, but it isn't any of those things. It really is appreciation. There's nothing like the high of knowing somebody has enjoyed your story. Just like there's nothing like the low when somebody doesn't.

Imagine the high of millions liking your story, all at once... across the world. That's a high I'd like to feel, that's why I'm here.

Quoted from DustinBowcot It took me a while to figure out what I wanted from taking my writing public. At first I thought it might be money or fame, but it isn't any of those things. It really is appreciation. There's nothing like the high of knowing somebody has enjoyed your story. Just like there's nothing like the low when somebody doesn't. Imagine the high of millions liking your story, all at once... across the world. That's a high I'd like to feel, that's why I'm here.

Dustin, we have that in common.  The money and fame come with that.

The highlight of my life.  I write, directed, produced and did everything on my thesis movie called Who is Angela (I'm sure it's horrific by today's standards) done in 92.

It was shown on local access and I got a few letters in the mail from people who had written the station (no internet back then, imagine, SNAIL MAIL) and said how much my movie touched their lives.  It was awesome.  I still have those letters.

I hope I can do that again someday.

Not so much original, chief...though fresh takes and angles on the old favourites are always welcome.

I just mean interesting, more high concept, bigger in scope, more focussed, more...something I don't even really know how to define. Most pro-scripts simply have a more enticing premise/concept from the word go than the vast majority of pre-pro scripts.

Just an example so you can try and understand better what I mean:

The Purge.

A film I enjoyed, and many thought was poor/mediocre. That's immaterial here.

The Purge has a premise that, in my honest opinion, is better than any pre-pro, genre script I've ever seen. On here, Talentville, Inktip, Stage 32, Zoetrope, in all the scripts I've been sent over the years in hard copy or through email. Almost none come even close.

The basic concept of "What if we lived in a world where there were no laws for one day each year".

Is better than anything any pre-pro here or elsewhere has thus far come up with (that I've seen, of course...but I've seen a lot) in my humble opinion.

The point is that I've seen arguments about rules and technicalities for ten years, but the truth is most of us are not even getting to rung one on the ladder...getting a marketable, grab your attention concept.

Without that it's all a waste of time anyway.

Just my two cents, as you lot over the pond say.

There's no question that concept is king. But it's hard to come up with that concept that people will find to be exceptional. Many writers who come up with one are never struck by lightning again.

Arguing about rules is a waste of time.

Discussing what works best for writing techniques, however. is very worthwhile. Again, by that I mean what conveys the story in the best possible way...not what conforms to rules in the best possible way.

I recently helped someone with a short script that was being filmed. It was a simple story and we wrote a simple shooting script where the shots were all perfectly clear. And yet the camera crew and the co-director kept making mistakes because they kept going off script with what they thought were good ideas. The reason they kept doing so was because the story was not clear enough to them. Clarity is always a giant issue, and most people are very poor readers, so what WE think is clear is seldom clear enough.

I've seen writers perform mental gymnastics in order to try to satisfy two often conflicting needs: clarity and format. They do crazy and awkward things that are tedious to read and often not as clear as they should be...just to stay within the "rules"!!!

Is that logical?

I personally am always interested in improving my work. Any insight I get from a reader is extremely valuable. In fact, in my OWC script there was one important part that I was afraid some readers would miss because all readers are prone to skimming. I know I do. So I considered ways to draw attention to that one line, which though perfectly clear, might easily be skimmed. In the end I just left it as is. And at least one reader mentioned missing it at first and having to read back, just as I had feared.

This is the main reason writers use asides: clarity. To make sure the reader is kept on track and that everything is understood.

Of course the main thing to try to learn when it comes to executing story is the emotional engagement/reaction of the audience. What works and why. If you do come into a very good concept you'll want to be able to execute the story. If the concept is can't miss and worth a million bucks, then someone will buy your story but then that's the end of your involvement. But if you've got a good concept and you've executed the story well then you become a writer that could be hired for assignment. The last work I read by Rick is pretty darn close to being able to do that!

Rick, you bring up an age old issue, but it's actually impossible to define. It's also something you bring up time and time again, much as the things I bring up over and over, and much as Mr. Simon does as well, through different names over many years.

You now state that The Purge is the very best "Script", or actually "concept" is what you really mean, that you've ever seen, be it from a Pro or an amateur.  OK, that's cool.  And I even tend to agree to some degree, that the concept of The Purge is very good.  I even thought it was a pretty damn good "little" movie, but it cuold also have been much more, if handled differently.

It was made on a very deceiving budget of $3 Million, and went on to gross just under #90 Million at the WWBO.  Many, many more millions were made after the fact, as well.  I say deceiving, because the actors worked for scale and took backend points, which proved to be a very smart move for all invovled.

Shockingly, the movie has a less than luke-warm reception on Rotten Tomatoes of only 38%, and if you look over the feedback here on SS, you'll see again how little support the film received.

What's my point?  My point is that no single person can gauge what an incredible idea/concept is, as everyone has their own opinions/likes/dislikes/etc.

But, when you master how to write a script, few will argue your talents and skills.

Whatever it is you decide to write about will be viewed as everything is...hit and miss, depending on the reader/viewer.

Why not kjust learn how to write and hope you hit on a concept that works for most, or at least a few that matter?

Finally, as I've said over and voer and will say again here...look at the movies we're served up year in and year out.  Look at both teh big budget theatrical releases as well as the no to low DTV dreck.  You realy think the movies based on original screenplays are all that impressive?  Impressive at all?

It's obvious what sells, and a very small % is based on original screnplays from original concepts, where that actual concept is what sells the film.  Very few and extremely far between.  

"Mr. Simon", your first paragragh is spot on and I agree 100%, as noted in my above reply to Rick.

But from there on, once again, it's you throwing out all sorts of rants about rules.

If you so despise rules, stop talking about them.  Seriously, man.  Look at your posts how many times you use the word "rules".  Unreal...

You get me?

I didn't say it was the best script, or even, premise ever. Just that it's better than any pre-pro concept I've seen.

And it only cost $3M as you say. That is entry level, essentially.

The point is simply that, as my other thread on here today shows, there aren't people desperately trying to give people opportunities...they give them to people they know, trust, drink with or give birth to.

The only way you;re getting in the door is with a concept that's kick in the balls and punch in the tits good and gets people talking.

I'm not saying the quality of the writing isn't important, but that aspect can be fixed later. The premise you're stuck with.

OK, but Rick, James DeMonaco has been a Pro Writer for 20 years.  Whether or not this concept/script he came up with is better than Pre-Pro Writers or other Pro Writers means absolutely nothing, doesn't it?

Once a "screenwriter" sells a script, he or she is a Pro Writer.  It doesn't mean that he or she is now a better writer, it simply means they sold a script, and once that happens on a mid or big level, doors open up. Hell, when a writer sells a small school script, certain doors open that were closed before.  Right?

I would imagine every Pro Writer continues to try to come up with the next big/great concept, but in reality, very, very few do...just like very, very few amateur writers do, as well.

Does that make sense?

Agree with Rick about 'The Purge'. Obviously I haven't seen it but I recall reading about the concept and thinking how cool is that. Then being disappointed by reviews from you guys that had seen it.

I recently read the novelisation of Interstellar just for the hell of it. Your reviews of the film were mixed so I wanted to see how it went wrong. Great story and premise but over halfway into the book it becomes tedious and boring. The twist and explanation are pretty average. I was thinking ' how could this Nolan guy bugger up this'? But it was trying to hard to be 2001.

A couple of years back I started a script about fans travelling back in time to stop Marilyn Monroe's murder. Cool concept right? I'm a huge fan of hers so looking good. But it became a real pain and chore to write and it lies on my computer half done. I will get back to it at some stage after I approach it from a new angle.

Anyway just throwing in my two bobs worth. Lol

@Jeff,

To your first point...I think it does mean something. He is the direct competition. He's been in and around Hollywood for twenty years, and is clearly still relevant now...indeed he appears to be on the rise. If anyone here wants to be pro, he's the kind of person they have to replace and outgun. And he has the advantage of 20 years of friends who are letting him direct a movie (Purge 3).

If you are writing to have stuff made at a professional level, then his level is a decent benchmark...that $3M. That's low budget, SAG level pay.

To get in we're going to have to do better than him. Not even equal..because he's already there surrounded by mates.

So until we start regularly churning out top level concepts, we're fucked. To put it bluntly.

Being Pro doesn't automatically make you better than a non-pro, but the reason people become pros is by being better than amateurs.

In the same way professional footballers become pros because they are the best of the amateurs...although the waters are definitely slightly muddier because merit in writing is more subjective than in the meritocracy that is sport.

I didn't care for the concept behind the purge when I first heard it discussed, I believe on Scriptshadow. But the proof is certainly in the pudding, so I was wrong.

I watched the Rodriquez interview with Taranino recently. The original studio producer of Pulp Fiction backed out and even QT was worried he had screwed up the whole story.

Great concepts are not only hard to come by, they are not always recognized for their value at first.

Also, we it's not talked about much here, but TV writing is the biggest opportunity now. Netflix aims to release a new series every two weeks, and HBO is looking to buy 150 specs a year! Not to mention that all kinds of channels are producing their own stuff. It's a huge opportunity. Not just to sell concepts, but to get work as a writer. Learning how to do dialogue and how to work with narrative concepts is critical.