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You may be happy to know that I did make a change you recommended - the "eastern European accent" now reads "German accent".
"A" change? Just one? You didn't even fix music box/boom box, which was unequivocally a confusing mistake?
(Also, it said "thick European accent"--no region specified)
Quoted from Dreamscale
If you'd like, I will send you the latest
I was curious to see if you made any salutary changes based on my and others' comments. As in, cut it down to a reasonable number of characters (what was it, 25?), replace the twenty-something pages of goofing around in a bar with story, etc.
If the accent thing was the only change worth mentioning, then I guess there's no reason for another look.
Quoted from Dreamscale
I'm hoping that you don't go into another line by line cutup, as I rally don't need or want that
Certainly I wouldn't do that if the writer doesn't appreciate it (even if it may sting initially, the idea is point out areas where the writing is perhaps careless in a way that the writer can't see). In any case, that was a pretty small part of my comments.
Quoted from Dreamscale
On a different note, as I said earlier, I would love to rad something you've written. Let me know with an E-mail or PM.
Maybe in the future.
(By the way, it seems like your "e" key is sticking.)
Atlas, many of my keys are sticking, or maybe it's that my fingers are getting or have gotten old.
Bro, you've got to remember that the version posted here (the one you read) is very old. There have been numerous updates since this was posted. What I'm saying is that when I say I changed this or that, it does not necessarily mean that it was changed from exactly what you read.
The bar scene is cut way back and there is also a new element added to that scene - a giant octopus is hiding up in the rafters and an ancient cave bear wanders in later. Oh yeah, I forgot - there's also an extended, 12 minute sequence in which 3 characters do karaoke - Rock you like a Hurricane, Shout at the Devil, and Greased Lightning.
Sorry it took me so long to read it but I finally finished it. I was reading here and there when I could sneak an opportunity at work. I’m glad I reached out to you before I finished the draft that is currently up and received the latest draft you have. I should finish reading the one on SS just to compare, I might have to do that.
First off, I love your writing style; professional and easy to read. I liked your usage of descriptions when killing off your characters – I could literally picture it in my head lol. I also liked how you used just sheer brutality in your violence and not some overly clever way in dispatching your victims.
Your opening – Incredibly gripping and catching. BUT the one thing that kind of bugged me – would Cyndi and Marshall really be swimming naked with their parents just in the other room? LOL that’s incredibly ballsy of them. Nice for some gratuitous T&A shots though, so I didn’t overly mind.
The scene behind the back alley – The scene where the tire iron comes down onto the drunk, grizzled man. Hmmm, okay. I became a little suspicious of Danny after that only because you made it a point to show Danny emerge from an alley right after that. I think your average horror fan would probably think the same…
Characters – I was kind of bummed when Carlie and Danny were only described as a good-looking couple yet everyone at the bar got some much more in their descriptions. Okay, so I kind of hate it when we meet like every single character in a given scene and in your case we literally meet 7 characters within a half page. OMFG! That’s a whole lot to keep track of (I kept notes of who’s who/who’s with who at first). I felt overwhelmed. I would’ve spaced it out, maybe some outside smoking, or at the bar, or girls in the bathroom, etc. But luckily you quickly (and with great applause) distinguish your characters and I didn’t have to refer to my notes.
Side-note. I’m glad you dropped the overly cutesy relationship between Danny and Carlie. That got old super fast and I disliked them almost immediately. I actually liked them in the draft you sent me.
The Horny Toad – So I’ve read some, not all, just some of what others have said about this scene. I really wish you didn’t have to cut out the character’s dialogue. I love character interactions and/or pointless chitchat in films/screenplays AS LONG as it’s interesting/acted well, etc. Dialogue was smooth, fun, and lively and I don’t think anything in particular ever read forced or awkward. I felt your characters had awesome chemistry together, I believed they were friends. Not one unlikable character to mention.
The Woman’s Stall – I’m glad you eventually had Carlie confess to Danny about this incident because I was going to be pissed if this was never brought up again. She only returned with an odd look? C’mon! LOL. But – I know Johnny had that encounter with the Mexican bouncer but why would he do this to Carlie? This seemed completely out of character for him because even at the Horny Toad, he seemed like a nice guy.
Pg.38 – Doesn’t bother me, just figured I’d let you know because I catch weird things. In your slug HORNY TOAD became THE HORNY TOAD. Not like it matters just didn’t know if you’re OCD about certain things. Sometimes I am lol.
The Wood Shed – My suspicions about Danny were right! Nice to see some violence kick in but again, I didn’t mind this build up as I found your earlier scenes great.
Pg. 49 – Pssshhh I was waiting for this. I was like, how are you going to include a lesbian character and not have a little action? Lol
Pg. 68 – I figured Carlie must know and wasn’t all to surprised when she cut Meg’s throat. I was more curious how this tied into the beginning and why they were doing this? A cult of some sort? Hmm.
Pg. 90 – Thought you should know, you have officer “ociffer”. No biggy.
Jeff, I liked this a lot. Right up my alley – I like body count films. I’m jealous you wrote something that looked so good and professional.
I think I scrolled through a message on here and said you’re working on a sequel? Ha! Definitely look forward to that.
Hey Oney, thanks so much for the read and feedback. I really appreciate it.
Glad you liked it. Also glad I stopped you in time and gave you the new draft.
You should have seen how long the original Horny Toad scene was years ago...shockingly long banter. I'm pretty happy with the length of it now and I think the characters get their chance to show who they are, as well.
Damn...1 of my Slugs for The Horny Toad is off? I am a perfectionist and will change this right now, damnit! Good catch.
I've said this many time and I'll say it again, the "typo" "ociffer", isn't a typo, actually. It's a little fun D& C are having at Jacobs' expense - the old slur routine when someone who has been drinking is pulled over by a cop, the first thing out of their mouth dooms them, "Hello Ociffer..oh shit..."
I'm surprised you considered Danny to have killed the drunk. My intention was twofold here - make it seem like Tobias (possibly) was now in Durango and D & C, and all the kids wold be his next batch of victims, or, throw out a "reverse red herring", in which it looks like Danny may have just killed the guy, but it seems too obvious and he seems like he's going to be the main Protag.
Yeah, I do have the sequel pretty much done in my head, but nothing on paper, as unless I can do something with this, I just don't see the value of writing a sequel...but it's pretty fucking cool, anyways, with a rip roaring intro, a new Antag, and some pretty wild set piece scenes in Telluride. There's a great scene that takes place right on the mountain involving some brutal deaths.
Speaking of brutal, you definitely hit the nail on he head when you noted the brutality in the kill scenes. Exactly what I was after, as I too have gotten bored with the ridiculous, over the top kills in most horror movies. I wanted the kills here to be old school violent, yet still believable and realistic.
Thanks again, Oney. I look forward to reading your new horror script, Willie12.
I guess maybe you had Danny emerging from an alley right after the drunk was killed – I was immediately like “hmmm, was it the SAME alley? I wonder if Danny witnessed it. Oh wait – I wonder if Danny DID it.” Lol it’s just how my brain works. I briefly worked in a courthouse so I would hear all kinds of “detective” talk lol. I don’t think I would’ve gotten any red flags if it just cut to Danny walking in front of the Horny Toad…
Figured it was about time I got my review up. Finished the script last night, really enjoyed it. It's kinda hard to explain, but this read like I was watching a movie. The dialogue, pacing, even the scene transitions all seemed very cinematic, and I found myself imagining this on screen rather than just reading the words.
The margins are kinda odd here... There's barely any white space at the top. Not a major issue, but still...
Pg. 3: So Tobias points the rifle at Cyndi, and you said he's calm... then Marshall gasps and it somehow makes Tobias miss? I'd think of a more plausible way for this to happen.
Pg. 11-12: Eight characters are introduced within a few paragraphs, which may get confusing. I tend to have the problem of mixing up/forgetting characters, so it may just be me...
Pg. 18: I don't care for references like "looked like we were in a fucking horror movie!" because we're instantly reminded we're watching a horror movie. Takes me out of the story, but that's probably personal taste.
I caught a couple of times you used "it's" instead of "its".
Pg. 43:
DANNY (CONT'D) Frozen? There's no water or anything, is there?
JAKE Well, there's obviously a leak in the roof somewhere, and it seems to be hitting the piles, cause I've seen 'em frozen like this before.
This exchange didn't do anything for me. Something about it didn't seem realistic.
Pg. 47: it's "beet red" not "beat".
Pg. 81-82: Janelle doens't have the quickest reaction, huh? She walks in on Danny murdering Johnny with a frying pan, and just stands there telling Johnny to get back up.
I thought Jill and Bobby were kind of useless for the plot. Don't get me wrong, I liked the characters... but what was their purpose for the story?
Pg. 98-99:
BLACKBOURN Is he...what I think he is? Like Satan or something?
Didn't seem very realistic to me, even a tad corny.
Pg. 101: Don't you need to write a transition like "FADE OUT" before the credits start again?
All right, done. Like I said, I really enjoyed this. Solid all around. I've got some notes above... probably nothing major, but I hope this helps.
Glad you enjoyed it and your comments about how it read like you were actually watching a movie is so cool to hear. That's obviously always my goal and I'm very happy it shows through here.
I can't believe I had "its" and "it's" issues, but thanks to you, I found the 3 buggers and cleaned their asses up.
Also fixed the "beet red" problem. Thanks!
The other things I understand what you're saying but I chose to leave them alone. The "FADE OUT" before the credits roll was fixed at some time, but I guess I never made a new PDF - actually, I think there were alot of things that had been changed but never turned into a final PDF. So, thanks to you, I now do have a new PDF which hopefully fixes the remaining problems.
My biggest thanks, though is for "seeing" that my top margin was incorrectly set. How that happened, I have no clue, but it's now fixed. It actually added several pages, which makes sense. Unreal that I never noticed that, or I wonder if I made some other changes at some point and that somehow got changed? No clue, but we're cool now.
Thanks again, Will. You've definitely helped here, and if I can return the favor, just let me know.
I’m not the hugest fan of horror as a genre (nothing against it, I just haven’t found too many films to my taste, compared to other genres), but I really enjoyed this. It was a quick, painless and enjoyable read. Your descriptions were clear, and I could easily visualise the settings. So congrats on that, you can definitely write, bro.
Below are my running notes. I’ll get these out the way first, before I do the main analysis, as there will be a few points I make which I will use as the basis of the main discussion. As I made these notes when I was reading, one or two are redundant, as something later in the script clears the issue up! Hope they make sense. If any don’t, swing me a message or a reply on this thread, and I will try to further clarify my thoughts!
Page 2 – Nice, bodies falling already! This is my kind of horror story.
Page 3- “Pellets riddle the water as well as Marshall's head.” This read slightly awkwardly for me. Could just be “pellets riddle the water and Marshall’s head”?
Page 4 – Killing a kid this early on? Always have respect for someone who has the balls to do that, especially this early on. You’ve got my attention, good sir!
That was a brilliant opening 4 pages. Congrats on that, man.
Page 4- “...his Co-PILOT to his right”. I believe “Co” needs to be completely capitalised? As you’re introducing him as a co-pilot, verses just a pilot, right? Real minor issue, though.
Page 8- Carlie: “Pretty close, but I think it's cute...and the Captain even said we were cute.” Real minor adjustment, but I think this dialogue would work better if you moved the position of the “even”, so it read like: “... even the Captain said we were cute.”
Page 9- Carlie: “Don't worry about the new office. Xavier's gonna take care of it for us...” This was a bit too sudden/ OTN for my liking. Maybe, after Carlie strokes Danny’s legs, have Danny say “But no, I’m not nervous. I’m just...” And then have Carlie be like “Worried then? You know there’s no need to worry about the new office. Xavier's gonna take care of it for us...” I feel like that would read a bit more natural, as it’s like she’s sprouting this info in response to what Danny’s saying, if that makes sense?
Page 10- “Carlie looks up, attempts another snowflake in the mouth catch.” This reads a little awkward. Maybe just keep it simple, and have “Carlie looks up, attempts to catch another snowflake in her mouth.”
The Horny Toad. Now there is a bar I want to make my regular! What a name.
Right, I have a feeling I’m going to be coming back to page 12 more than once to refresh myself with all these characters. Might be because 3/7 of the characters have names beginning with J. Is there anyway to introduce them slightly less at once? Even if it’s having 4 of them sitting down, and the other 3 standing at the bar, or playing pool, or darts, or something? And then they wander over when the drinks have been brought over in time for the toast? Just an idea.
Page 13- Lisa: “Janey, are you in, I'm sure not.” This line of dialogue didn’t really stick well with me. I’m guessing she’s asking Janey if she’ll do a shot, but something about it just read a bit awkwardly.
Page 15- Jake: “OK, enough, McD.” McD? Never heard that term before. Oooooh, I see, it’s a reference to his surname. Stupid me
Page 16- “They walk over to the group's tables. Danny pulls one of them away from the other two.” The second sentence is a little bit confusing, bro. I know what you’re trying to say, but it took me two reads to get my head around it.
Page 26- Martin’s breast toast made me chuckle.
Bottom page 29/ top of page 30 (The scene where Danny and Carlie are in their car)- If you are looking to trim your script down, I would consider potentially getting rid of this, just because it didn’t really do too much for me. Didn’t really drive the story, or reveal anything we didn’t already know.
Page 30- Megan: “I think they'll be OK. He's got that look like he's able to take care of things, you know?” I think this would read better if it was “I think they'll be OK. He strikes me as someone who can take care of things, you know?”
Page 34- Megan: “Carlie, you're really funny. You've got a cute way about you.” This line felt pretty unnatural to me.
I love the way you use the snowdrops to cut between locations. Good work there, bro. That is genius.
And the bodies start dropping again! Nice and unexpected. Danny, you dark horse.
Seinfeld reference- nice. Always space for one of them in a script.
Page 54- Danny: “He wanted me to tell you that he wanted you to go out for a minute.” Something about this line reads a bit awkwardly for me. Could be the double “wanted”.
The beating of Lisa was intense... I love a script which is not scared to shock its readers. Bravo for having the balls to inflict such brutal damage!
Page 66- “He has a funny look on his face.” I’d try and be a bit more specific, if at all possible? As whenever I read this, I automatically picture Jim Carey doing some kind of stupid facial expression.
Page 76- Danny: “Jake and Lisa are too”. Need a full-stop at the end here, bud.
Page 77- Danny: “I bet. Glad I didn't find out first hand how sharp it is.” I would maybe change this to: “I bet. I’m glad I didn't find that out first hand.” Otherwise he is just echoing what Carlie just said.
Whenever a character in a horror flick makes future plans, you know it’s never going to end well for them. I wonder what’s in store for Jacobs?
Haha, I like Danny calling Johnny a “sick fuck”.
Page 86- Janelle: “You Fucking Freaks!” Any reason why “fucking” and “freaks” are capitalised?
Dirty Harry reference as well. Very nice.
Page 100- You introduce a character as MAN, but then give him the name Blackbourn in his dialogue? I was a little confused at first as to whether or not they were the same person, but I’m guessing they are. If they’re not, then Blackbourn needs an introduction Ok, so Blackbourn is the pilot. I would maybe make a reference to that when you reintroduce him, as I thought he was just going to be a one-off character, so didn’t make a conscious effort to remember his name. Or call him Captain Blackbourn, or something. Just so we know he’s the pilot.
Ok, in regards to a scene I said you could cut out earlier, scrap that: I’ve just seen it’s used in the credit flashback sequence.
Not too fond of the whole credits stopping-and-starting thing. They did it in Seven Psychopaths, and although I liked the film, that was one thing I didn’t really like. I also feel like some of these flashbacks aren’t really necessary as they don’t really add anything. Like I think you could cut out the alley one, and have it revealed that there’s a bomb in the bag, and then have the next flashback with them in the car, blowing out the tires. I also thought you could cut out the flashbacks of Carlie and Danny in the house, as I didn’t think they added anything to our understanding of the story. Do we need to see them finding their weapons? To be honest, I’m not even sure if it’s necessary that we see that the jeep’s tires blew out. I already presumed that Danny and Carlie did something to make this happen. But I did like the dialogue in that scene, so...
More General Thoughts:
As I said, I absolutely loved the opening scene. Tone was set right off the bat. You got straight down to business, and grabbed my attention straight away. Also, I'm guessing some may have an issue with the killing of the kid, but I am not when of them. Not that I'm this crazy, sick guy who lives it when kids get snuffed. It's just I respect films that push boundaries.
Now, that this opening scene was so great lead to some problems for me with the next portion of the script: the first half. Compared to the opening, it moved just a little bit slow for my liking. I almost forgot I was even watching a horror film! Although the hobo guy did get his head cracked. Regarding that part, I presume that was done so we think that mayeb Johnny is going to be the killer? If so, I would suggest maybe fooling us a bit more, maybe have the hobo bump into Johnny earlier, or something. And then Johnny disappear outside, or something like that? Just a thought. But back to what I was saying before. The first half was justa bit of a slow read for me. But I'm guessing that was kind of what you were going for, the calm before the storm, so to speak?
The second half of the script was bloody brilliant, though. Action-packed, fast moving, highly enjoyable, and we even get a couple of boobies! Everyone's a winner (maybe milk the whole Megan/ Nicole romance a bit more though?) I liked how easily Johnny got killed as well, in comparison to Janelle. I completely thought it was going to be the other way around (not based on sexist views, but based on the earlier dialogue about Johnny's mean/ violent streak). So congrats for throwing that curveball my way.
I thought the ending worked well, but I would maybe suggest making maybe one or two more references to Xavier throughout the script. The best twists/ surprises work so well because they've been under our noses the whole time. At the moment, it's slightly too left-field. But only slightly. A couple more references, maybe, and I feel like it would work much better.
I liked the characters in this as well. I thought you introduced a good range. Danny and Carlie were interesting, not your typical killers. I liked them (bar the whole killings, and stuff). Your victims were decent as well. They felt like real people, as you created well developed characters, each with distinct, different personality.
Overall, as I said in the introduction, I thought this was great. I could definitely see how much time had been put into this, with all the re-writes and stuff. The writing was, for the most part, flawless.
Hey Toby, thanks so much for the well thought out notes here. Glad you enjoyed this.
I'm actually going to make a few changes based on some of the things you brought up. Being Christmas Eve, I'm not going to go into detail here, but I honestly mean this that you've helped me with some things I had overlooked or neglected.
So...I heard a rumor that there was going to be a rewrite up sometime in the future? Is this true? I'd like to read it. My post back 2009 as CrazyArtist was back when I had no clue what I was doing and zero experience. Now that I have somewhat of a clue and a modicum of experience I'd like to take a fresh look at the new version. Do you maybe have an ETA on that, Jeff?
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