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SimplyScripts Screenwriting Discussion Board    Screenwriting Discussion    The 2019 Writers' Tournament  ›  2019 Writers' Tournament Standings Moderators: Mr. Blonde
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  Author    2019 Writers' Tournament Standings  (currently 24755 views)
Don
Posted: June 11th, 2019, 9:11pm Report to Moderator
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So, what are you writing?

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Final Scores

Writers' Choice - Warren Duncan TAS: 3.68 - Scripts: 5
Second - Paul Knauer TAS: 3.50 - Scripts: 5
Third - Rene Claveau TAS: 3.40 - Scripts: 5
Fourth - John Staats TAS: 3.28 - Scripts: 5
Fifth - Matthew Taylor TAS: 3.26 - Scripts: 5

Round 5  scores Final

1 Off Grid by John Staats (JEStaats)  writing as A Prime Customer - Top Score, Top Everything
2 Unforeseen Changes by Frank MacCrory (FrankM)  writing as Loyal Subject
3 Husks by Zack Akers (Zack)  writing as Anonymous 70
4 Loophole by Paul Knauer (PKCardinal)  writing as Anonymoust 75
5 A New Present by Warren Duncan (Warren)  writing as Somebody I Used To Know
6 Close Encounters of the Nerd Kind by Gary Howell (Hawkeye)  writing as Richard Doofus
7 The Cold Invasion by Rene Claveau (ReneC)  writing as A Fellow Human
8 SimplyScript Fest by Javier Torregrosa (jayrex)  writing as Dr. Draper
9 A Message of Hope by Matthew Taylor (Matthew Taylor)  writing as I Wish I Was Asleep
10 The Bridge by Anthony Cawood (AnthonyCawood)  writing as Wells Farrago- Top Criteria
11 To the Poor by Alex Brauck (PrussianMosby)  writing as Carson Sawmill- Top Criteria
12 Duel in the Desert by Joe Garza (SPQR)  writing as Hermann Buhl- Top Criteria

Round 4  scores Final

1 Redemption by Warren Duncan (Warren) Top Average Score, Top Character, Prose, Dialogue, Meets Criteria
2 Sanctuary by Paul Knauer (PKCardinal) Top Story, Top Meets Criteria
3 Black Mamba by Rene Claveau (ReneC) Top Meets Criteria
4 Saints and Sinners by John Staats (JEStaats) Top Meets Criteria
5 Crucified by Gary Howell (Hawkeye) Top Meets Criteria
6 Deities of the Apocalypse by Matthew Taylor (Matthew Taylor) Top Meets Criteria
7 A Place of Worship by Anthony Cawood (AnthonyCawood)
8 Skate The Church by Alex Brauck (PrussianMosby) Top Meets Criteria
9 The Fool by Joe Garza (SPQR)
10 Card Chase by Frank MacCrory (FrankM) Top Meets Criteria
11 Circle of Greed by Steve McDonell (stevie) Top Meets Criteria
12 Street Cinema by Richard D. Kinsella (Scar Tissue Films)
13 Red Wedding by Dena McKinnon (paleyellow)
14 Deciphering Fenn by Javier Torregrosa (jayrex)
15 A Warrior's Anguish by Zack Akers (Zack)


Round 3 Tentative scores Final

1 3 Hail Marys by Paul Knauer (PKCardinal)Top Ave Score, Top Story, Character, Dialoge, Prose
2 The Red Weed by Rene Claveau (ReneC)Top Meets Criteria
3 The Belly of the Beast by Warren Duncan (Warren)
4 Mayday by Anthony Cawood (AnthonyCawood)
5 Spore by Richard D. Kinsella (Scar Tissue Films)Top Meets Criteria
6 Spores by kevin lenihan (leitskev)Top Meets Criteria
7 Terror From The Sky by Zack Akers (Zack)
8 Ghost Plane by Matthew Taylor (Matthew Taylor)Top Meets Criteria
9 What Would You Do...? by L. Chambers (LC)
10 Ungodliness by John Staats (JEStaats)Top Meets Criteria
11 Out of the Mist by Gary Howell (Hawkeye)Top Meets Criteria
12 A Liver Short by Alex Brauck (PrussianMosby)
13 From the Light to the Sheyd by Frank MacCrory (FrankM)
14 A Dark Reflection by Joe Garza (SPQR)Top Meets Criteria
15 Payload by Steve McDonell (stevie)Top Meets Criteria
16 Virus by Javier Torregrosa (jayrex)Top Meets Criteria
17 Reaper's Disease by Hank Biro (henb)
18 Paradise Airlines by Jeff Bush (Dreamscale)


Round 2 Tentative scores final

1 Rats of a Feather by Warren Duncan (Warren)
2 Coming Up Roses by L. Chambers (LC)
3 Dating in the Future World by Richard D. Kinsella (Scar Tissue Films)
4 An Abandoned Mine, a Golden Chalice and a Beast Named Blondie by Paul Knauer (PKCardinal)
5 The Quest for the Red Boat by Rene Claveau (ReneC)
6 Rats by Gary Howell (Hawkeye)
7 The Rat Pack by John Staats (JEStaats)
8 The Foul Case of the Feculent Fiend by Anthony Cawood (AnthonyCawood)
9 Underneath The Streets Of New York by Jeff Bush (Dreamscale)
10 Henry Schmidt: A Tosher's Tale by Matthew Taylor (Matthew Taylor)
11 Whistle While You Twerk by Zack Akers (Zack)
12 Agent Eleven: Operation Shitstorm by David GonzŠlez (Philostrate)
13 shIT by Steve McDonell (stevie)
14 Crappy Job by Frank MacCrory (FrankM)
15 Not It by Kevin Lenihan (leitskev)
16 The Wait by Khamanna Iskandarova (khamanna)
17 Cindy Tucker, Sewage Queen by Alex Brauck (PrussianMosby)
18 Whistling in the Dark by Joe Garza (SPQR)
19 Gym Coaches Blow by Hank Biro (henb)
20 If I Had A Whistle by Javier Torregrosa (jayrex)


Round 1 Scores.

1  Bobble-ageddon by Matthew Taylor (Matthew Taylor) Top Ave. Score
2  Melt by Richard D. Kinsella (Scar Tissue Films) Top Ave. Criteria/Story
3  Tucker & Doctor Daleman vs. Crazy by Warren Duncan (Warren)
4  Just Stop by Gary Howell (Hawkeye) Top Ave. Dialogue/Prose
5  I'm Being Watched by David GonzŠlez (Philostrate)
6  Dr. Schnederly, Mobile Psychiatrist by Paul Knauer (PKCardinal) Top Ave. Character
7  Bugs by kevin lenihan (leitskev)
8  Head Space by Anthony Cawood (AnthonyCawood)
9  Bobblelution by Steve McDonell (stevie) Top Ave. Criteria (tie)
10  A Head Full of Lightning by Joe Garza (SPQR)
11  Virtual Vengeance Container by Alex Brauck (PrussianMosby)
12  Treatment by Rene Claveau (ReneC)
13  The Doc is Out by John Staats (JEStaats)
14  The Package by Zack Akers (Zack)
15  Sprung by Hank Biro (henb)
16  Head Case by Pete Lane (Pete B. Lane)
17  Never Know what you'll Get by Jeff Bush (Dreamscale)
18  Where Did He Touch You? by Javier Torregrosa (jayrex)
19  Daddy by Khamanna Iskandarova (khamanna)
20  Image Problem by Frank MacCrory (FrankM)




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Revision History (13 edits; 1 reasons shown)
Don  -  July 13th, 2019, 7:52pm
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Warren
Posted: June 11th, 2019, 9:18pm Report to Moderator
Of The Ancients


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No names? Are we not revealing after each round?


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ReneC
Posted: June 11th, 2019, 10:31pm Report to Moderator
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Are the names being withheld until the final scorecards are submitted?

Mine is exactly where I expected it to be.  


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Warren
Posted: June 11th, 2019, 10:37pm Report to Moderator
Of The Ancients


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Quoted from ReneC
Are the names being withheld until the final scorecards are submitted?

Mine is exactly where I expected it to be.  


Top of the pile?


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ReneC
Posted: June 11th, 2019, 10:39pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from Warren


Top of the pile?


Heck no. Not this round either.


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PKCardinal
Posted: June 11th, 2019, 10:45pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from ReneC


Heck no. Not this round either.


So, you're just waiting to crush us. Very strategic of you.


PaulKWrites.com

60 Feet Under - Low budget, contained thriller/Feature
The Hand of God - Low budget, semi-contained thriller/Feature
Wait Till Next Year - Disney-style family sports comedy/Feature

Many shorts available for production: comedy, thriller, drama, light horror
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Warren
Posted: June 11th, 2019, 11:03pm Report to Moderator
Of The Ancients


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Quoted from PKCardinal


So, you're just waiting to crush us. Very strategic of you.


That's definitely his plan!


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khamanna
Posted: June 11th, 2019, 11:36pm Report to Moderator
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What? The Doc Is Out is 13th? That's crazy
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Dreamscale
Posted: June 11th, 2019, 11:51pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from khamanna
What? The Doc Is Out is 13th? That's crazy


I'll tell you what's even crazier - Never Know What You'll Get, soon to be retitled as The Ballad Of Pun-Li, with a logline of...

The lengths a Japanese...or Chinese woman will go through to rekindle her relationship with her sweet, little daughter, Sun-Li, are...well, quite shocking, to say the least.



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ReneC
Posted: June 12th, 2019, 12:41am Report to Moderator
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Quoted from PKCardinal


So, you're just waiting to crush us. Very strategic of you.


Iím just glad I can participate. Even with the 72 hours, I only get 4-5 hours of writing. If I can squeeze in more time, watch out! That fifth place is mine!


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FrankM
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Quoted from ReneC
Mine is exactly where I expected it to be.  


Mine is actually a couple places higher than I expected.


Feature-length scripts:
Who Wants to Be a Princess? (Family)
Glass House (Horror anthology)

TV pilots:
"Kord" (Fantasy)
"Mal Suerte" (Superhero)

Additional scripts are listed here.
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Scar Tissue Films
Posted: June 12th, 2019, 3:21am Report to Moderator
Of The Ancients


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I feel that the Titan of the round, the Leviathan that walked, the Gigantomorph of a script that was 'Melt' was brought down by the rabid, mangy dogs biting at its majestic ankles.  
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Matthew Taylor
Posted: June 12th, 2019, 3:59am Report to Moderator
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Some of these have not placed where I expected them to be... shows what I know.

I need to know if my writers guesses were correct


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Warren
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Of The Ancients


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Quoted from Scar Tissue Films
I feel that the Titan of the round, the Leviathan that walked, the Gigantomorph of a script that was 'Melt' was brought down by the rabid, mangy dogs biting at its majestic ankles.  


Wow, not quite my feelings on the script but glad you enjoyed it.


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Warren
Posted: June 12th, 2019, 4:04am Report to Moderator
Of The Ancients


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Quoted from Matthew Taylor


I need to know if my writers guesses were correct


Some of them definitely are, I just know it.

How many you got this round? I'm up to 4 so far.


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Matthew Taylor
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Quoted from Warren


Some of them definitely are, I just know it.

How many you got this round? I'm up to 4 so far.


Only 2 that I'm certain of, another 3 I have reasonable guesses - A sixth writer I am certain wrote 1 of 2 scripts... But I can't decide which lol


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jayrex
Posted: June 12th, 2019, 5:10am Report to Moderator
Old Timer


Cut to three weeks earlier

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I placed where I thought Iíd be.  I chanced it.  I knew the fusion part didnít go well but submitted anyway.


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Matthew Taylor
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Quoted from Scar Tissue Films
I feel that the Titan of the round, the Leviathan that walked, the Gigantomorph of a script that was 'Melt' was brought down by the rabid, mangy dogs biting at its majestic ankles.  


Based on the above, I'd like to add another guess to my list of who wrote what


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Warren
Posted: June 12th, 2019, 5:44am Report to Moderator
Of The Ancients


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Quoted from Matthew Taylor


Based on the above, I'd like to add another guess to my list of who wrote what


That was one of my guesses based on his review of the script, but I wasn't sure.


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Warren
Posted: June 12th, 2019, 6:35am Report to Moderator
Of The Ancients


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So will we get the standings for each round's scripts so we can see how well/bad we did compared to everyone else or will the scores just keep adding on each round?

Be good if we could have individual round standings, it's like a mini OWC every week.

Not sure if that would be more work, but just thought it would be cool to see


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Zack
Posted: June 12th, 2019, 6:39am Report to Moderator
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Don't get it right. Get it written.

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I didn't finish is last place!? Dammit.


An example of my writing...

FOR SATAN - short, horror, 14 pgs (revised draft) - A group of thrill-seekers explore a creepy old house on Halloween night. Think you know this story? Think again.
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ReneC
Posted: June 12th, 2019, 9:20am Report to Moderator
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Quoted from Warren
So will we get the standings for each round's scripts so we can see how well/bad we did compared to everyone else or will the scores just keep adding on each round?

Be good if we could have individual round standings, it's like a mini OWC every week.

Not sure if that would be more work, but just thought it would be cool to see


I agree, it would be helpful to know where each script stood in addition to overall tournament standings.


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Gary in Houston
Posted: June 12th, 2019, 9:42am Report to Moderator
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Obviously we now know how we finished in round one. Iím curious whether some writers will be dissuaded from continuing after, e.g., round three if they finished near the bottom each round. Thereís really no potential for them to move up to the top five. I guess the only incentive at that point is to try and get an entry in and work on your writing.

My guess is there will be some dropouts occurring with each round after this one.


An utterly mediocre writer who somehow still falls bass ackwards into getting some of his scripts produced.
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Zack
Posted: June 12th, 2019, 9:50am Report to Moderator
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Don't get it right. Get it written.

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Quoted from Gary in Houston
Obviously we now know how we finished in round one. Iím curious whether some writers will be dissuaded from continuing after, e.g., round three if they finished near the bottom each round. Thereís really no potential for them to move up to the top five. I guess the only incentive at that point is to try and get an entry in and work on your writing.

My guess is there will be some dropouts occurring with each round after this one.


You can't keep me down! Although, based off the reviews, my second round script is even worse. Oh well. I expected as much. Comedy is not my genre of choice.


An example of my writing...

FOR SATAN - short, horror, 14 pgs (revised draft) - A group of thrill-seekers explore a creepy old house on Halloween night. Think you know this story? Think again.
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Matthew Taylor
Posted: June 12th, 2019, 9:59am Report to Moderator
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Quoted from Zack


You can't keep me down! Although, based off the reviews, my second round script is even worse. Oh well. I expected as much. Comedy is not my genre of choice.


"I get knocked down, but I get up again, ain't never gonna keep me down" - dammit, got it stuck in my head now

I'm 99.99% sure I have guessed yours correctly for the first round, it was one of those that shocked me with where it placed... it received amongst the highest scores in my scoring


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Mr. Blonde
Posted: June 12th, 2019, 10:02am Report to Moderator
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What good are choices if they're all bad?

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Just keeping you guys up to date: still going through the scores right now. The front page will be updated when I do. At that time, the writers' names will be released. Sorry for the delay.


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JEStaats
Posted: June 12th, 2019, 10:48am Report to Moderator
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No sh*t, there I was....

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You know, I didn't expect to be on the top for round one (and now, not for round two either) but, holy shit, I'm a little shocked where I ended up. Damn depressing, actually. Oh well, endeavor to persevere. Never give up, never surrender.
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ReneC
Posted: June 12th, 2019, 11:04am Report to Moderator
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Quoted from JEStaats
You know, I didn't expect to be on the top for round one (and now, not for round two either) but, holy shit, I'm a little shocked where I ended up. Damn depressing, actually. Oh well, endeavor to persevere. Never give up, never surrender.


Remember, there might be a small spread across some of the scores. A single point might make a difference, especially in the lower half of the standings.


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Zack
Posted: June 12th, 2019, 11:07am Report to Moderator
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Don't get it right. Get it written.

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Quoted from JEStaats
You know, I didn't expect to be on the top for round one (and now, not for round two either) but, holy shit, I'm a little shocked where I ended up. Damn depressing, actually. Oh well, endeavor to persevere. Never give up, never surrender.


Don't feel bad. At least you've got some company at the bottom.


An example of my writing...

FOR SATAN - short, horror, 14 pgs (revised draft) - A group of thrill-seekers explore a creepy old house on Halloween night. Think you know this story? Think again.
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khamanna
Posted: June 12th, 2019, 11:47am Report to Moderator
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Quoted from JEStaats
You know, I didn't expect to be on the top for round one (and now, not for round two either) but, holy shit, I'm a little shocked where I ended up. Damn depressing, actually. Oh well, endeavor to persevere. Never give up, never surrender.


I'd say "privileged to have you near mine" but I know you're much higher. But I'm guessing this one of mine still did better than the second one.

Well, I don't agree with the ratings this time anyway. So, there! And #10 entry was brilliant, too. Almost as good as Doctor is Out. I gave it all 5's.
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FrankM
Posted: June 12th, 2019, 11:55am Report to Moderator
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Someone turned in a scoresheet, so the standings have changed a bit. I'm now one spot closer to where I expected to be.


Feature-length scripts:
Who Wants to Be a Princess? (Family)
Glass House (Horror anthology)

TV pilots:
"Kord" (Fantasy)
"Mal Suerte" (Superhero)

Additional scripts are listed here.
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ReneC
Posted: June 12th, 2019, 12:47pm Report to Moderator
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I'm surprised with how closely my own scores reflect the standings, with three exceptions...

I'm shocked that Head Space came in 8th. That was in my top 5.

Sprung and The Package were in my top 10, I'm really surprised to see them so far down the list.

I had Head Case up there too but who knows where that one would have ended up.


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FrankM
Posted: June 12th, 2019, 1:17pm Report to Moderator
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How is Bobble-ageddon not tied for top criteria? Who didn't think that counted as a comedy and a sci-fi?


Feature-length scripts:
Who Wants to Be a Princess? (Family)
Glass House (Horror anthology)

TV pilots:
"Kord" (Fantasy)
"Mal Suerte" (Superhero)

Additional scripts are listed here.
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Matthew Taylor
Posted: June 12th, 2019, 3:10pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from FrankM
How is Bobble-ageddon not tied for top criteria? Who didn't think that counted as a comedy and a sci-fi?


Maybe they didn't notice the giant bobblehead statue heading for Earth


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Mr. Blonde
Posted: June 12th, 2019, 3:15pm Report to Moderator
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List has been updated. It's not a fully-cleaned up update, because I have to leave for work, but the information is now 100% accurate for the first round. Scores will not be posted until the end. Feel free to discuss your scripts by name. Sorry for the delays.


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Zack
Posted: June 12th, 2019, 3:23pm Report to Moderator
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Number 14! I'm Andy Dalton. Wait... Fuck.  


An example of my writing...

FOR SATAN - short, horror, 14 pgs (revised draft) - A group of thrill-seekers explore a creepy old house on Halloween night. Think you know this story? Think again.

Revision History (1 edits)
Zack  -  June 12th, 2019, 8:28pm
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Gary in Houston
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Great, now I canít remember where each script placed, so still really donít know who wrote what. But congrats to Matthew!


An utterly mediocre writer who somehow still falls bass ackwards into getting some of his scripts produced.
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leitskev
Posted: June 12th, 2019, 3:46pm Report to Moderator
Of The Ancients


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I really don't know how any of these scripts could rise. Not a single one stood out. There were maybe 3 that should be on the bottom, and then 17 swings and misses. Not surprising, this was hard. And I worked hard reading these, going back to ones I may have misjudged. I thought the one with the bobblehead husband and shrink kind of stood out, great metaphor and very good dialog. But it also didn't really try to meet the criteria, unless you count carving the dolls at the end. So for me, this was 17 B minuses and 3 C minuses. A good exercise, you never know when quick work is going to just magically come together.
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FrankM
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Not exactly shocked with where I ended up, given that I rushed something in just to not have straight 1s. Not saying it was a pisser... it was a real effort, just not one with enough time to get it right.

Hopefully it didn't earn straight 1s.


Feature-length scripts:
Who Wants to Be a Princess? (Family)
Glass House (Horror anthology)

TV pilots:
"Kord" (Fantasy)
"Mal Suerte" (Superhero)

Additional scripts are listed here.
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Philostrate
Posted: June 12th, 2019, 3:53pm Report to Moderator
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Congrats, Matt! Didn't see that coming!

Bobble-ageddon and Tucker & Doctor Daleman vs. Crazy were my top picks, glad to see them up there.

Melt and Just Stop were pretty good too.


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AnthonyCawood
Posted: June 12th, 2019, 4:03pm Report to Moderator
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Congrats all, tough challenge on criteria and getting something done in 3 days... great fun!

(and thanks Rene!)


Anthony Cawood - Award winning screenwriter
Available Short screenplays - http://www.anthonycawood.co.uk/short-scripts
Available Feature screenplays - http://www.anthonycawood.co.uk/feature-film-scripts/
Screenwriting articles - http://www.anthonycawood.co.uk/articles
IMDB Link - http://www.imdb.com/name/nm6495672/?ref_=fn_al_nm_1
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Dreamscale
Posted: June 12th, 2019, 5:16pm Report to Moderator
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I guess I didn't score as high as I thought I would, and have quite a bit of ground to make up.

How do i change my title and logline?
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FrankM
Posted: June 12th, 2019, 5:31pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from Dreamscale
How do i change my title and logline?


Wait until the sci-fi round, write in a time machine, and use that to alter the original submission.

Easy peasy.


Feature-length scripts:
Who Wants to Be a Princess? (Family)
Glass House (Horror anthology)

TV pilots:
"Kord" (Fantasy)
"Mal Suerte" (Superhero)

Additional scripts are listed here.
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stevie
Posted: June 12th, 2019, 5:36pm Report to Moderator
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Yeah good stuff Matty.  Lol itís uncanny how we had very similar titles :



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Dreamscale
Posted: June 12th, 2019, 5:40pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from FrankM


Wait until the sci-fi round, write in a time machine, and use that to alter the original submission.

Easy peasy.


OK, good idea.

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Warren
Posted: June 12th, 2019, 5:40pm Report to Moderator
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Congrats Matthew! Well and truly time to get rid of the disclaimer


Really happy with my placement, still very much in the mix.


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Warren
Posted: June 12th, 2019, 5:43pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from Warren


Same thing Sean said, let's do this...


Never Know what youíll Get Ė Jeff

The Package Ė Zack

Virtual Vengeance ContainerĖ Alex

Melt Ė Richard

Sprung - henb


Nailed it, how did you go Matt?


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Matthew Taylor
Posted: June 12th, 2019, 5:53pm Report to Moderator
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Thanks ppl - Was unexpected, and I fear, undeserved - There were stronger entries.
Will give me a boost for the inevitable point losses in the second round though lol


Quoted from Matthew Taylor
Let's do this Warren!

Tha Package - Zack
Head Space - Anthony Cawood
Dr Schnederly - PKCardinal
Just Stop - Hawkeye
I'm Being Watched - Philostrate
Virtual Vengeance Container - Warren (Although you just guessed someone else, so I must be wrong)
The Doc is out - JEStaats
Never Know what you'll get - Dreamscale
Where did he touch you - Jayrex
Sprung - Henb


Only 1 wrong lol - Annoyingly I had yours correct for ages and then changed at the last minute


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Warren
Posted: June 12th, 2019, 5:56pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from Matthew Taylor
Thanks ppl - Was unexpected, and I fear, undeserved - There were stronger entries.
Will give me a boost for the inevitable point losses in the second round though lol



Only 1 wrong lol - Annoyingly I had yours correct for ages and then changed at the last minute


You're a guessing machine!


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LC
Posted: June 12th, 2019, 6:45pm Report to Moderator
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Just read yours, Warren. Wish I had before. Great job.
I also had a live Bobblehead in a draft of what I would have put up for this round, if I'd had time.  
Nicely horrific.  


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Warren
Posted: June 12th, 2019, 6:45pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from Philostrate


Bobble-ageddon and Tucker & Doctor Daleman vs. Crazy were my top picks, glad to see them up there.



Thanks, mate. I really enjoyed yours as well. Just need to change that last scene and you'll have a great little short all round. Glad to see you up the top as well. I think your writing has come a long way


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Warren
Posted: June 12th, 2019, 6:47pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from LC
Just read yours, Warren. Wish I had before. Great job.
I also had a live Bobblehead in a draft of what I would have put up for this round, if I'd had time.  
Nicely horrific.  


I'm almost sure you would have picked me if you did read it. And thanks, appreciate it


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Zack
Posted: June 12th, 2019, 8:31pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from Matthew Taylor


I'm 99.99% sure I have guessed yours correctly for the first round, it was one of those that shocked me with where it placed... it received amongst the highest scores in my scoring


Seems like you had me pegged from the start. Thanks for the high praise. I think you were the only one who really enjoyed it.

Really liked Bobble-geddon. It deserves top marks. Good stuff, Dude.


An example of my writing...

FOR SATAN - short, horror, 14 pgs (revised draft) - A group of thrill-seekers explore a creepy old house on Halloween night. Think you know this story? Think again.

Revision History (2 edits; 1 reasons shown)
Zack  -  June 12th, 2019, 10:34pm
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DustinBowcot
Posted: June 13th, 2019, 1:53am Report to Moderator
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Quoted from Warren


Itís a true testament to the fact that story will override writing


I don't think this is a testament to that. This is a testament to how the scoring is set up.

In a production setting, the producers wouldn't score scripts like this and pick the best one. Also, Jeff's script wasn't written very well. There were lots of technical issues I could have picked on if so inclined.
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Warren
Posted: June 13th, 2019, 2:04am Report to Moderator
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Quoted from DustinBowcot


I don't think this is a testament to that. This is a testament to how the scoring is set up.

In a production setting, the producers wouldn't score scripts like this and pick the best one. Also, Jeff's script wasn't written very well. There were lots of technical issues I could have picked on if so inclined.


I was being overly dramatic for the sake of it. But I do think there is truth to it as well. I think most people know I don't completely believe that myself, just look at any one of my reviews.

I cant see how the script would have done any better with any other scoring system, but that's also a personal taste thing. Some people seemed to like it.

The point I was trying to make is that he bangs on about all these technicalities of screenwriting but he fails to deliver time and again in the story department, and at the end of the day that what hurts him. Scripts that weren't as well written scored better and I think that's because they had better characters, stories, and met the criteria better.


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DustinBowcot
Posted: June 13th, 2019, 2:36am Report to Moderator
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Sometimes the best teachers don't make the best writers. You're free to take his advice or not. It's just his way of delivery and he does help people. Also, he's entertaining.
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Matthew Taylor
Posted: June 13th, 2019, 3:29am Report to Moderator
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Quoted from stevie
Yeah good stuff Matty.  Lol itís uncanny how we had very similar titles :


I expected more bobble related titles to be honest...

Bobbleween
Nightmare on Bobble Street
Bobble Wars
The Bobble Witch Project
Bobble Runner
Guardians of the Bobble

... I spent most of the weekend trying to work bobble into a title


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Warren
Posted: June 13th, 2019, 3:39am Report to Moderator
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Quoted from DustinBowcot
Sometimes the best teachers don't make the best writers. You're free to take his advice or not. It's just his way of delivery and he does help people. Also, he's entertaining.


I agree, but I don't necessarily think that applies here. Giving advise involves pointing out what is wrong (or thought to be wrong) and offering a correct way or better way to do something, how else would someone learn from their mistake? Jeff very rarely does that. He talks a lot about helping writers but that's not what I see. I'm sorry, but I see a bully who tears writers down at every opportunity. Others don't have to agree, this is just my opinion.

He will point something out like --


Quoted Text
Wow...WTF?  The opening here is just terrible and oh so wrong.  You know why?

First of all, how can you begin with a Flashback?  What are you flashing back from?

Secondly, don't put "FLASHBACK" in your Slug.  It needs it's own line to "BEGIN" and "END".  That way, you can have multiple scenes (Slugs) in your Flashback.

Now, we have a character we haven't met yet, doing a VO?  Oh man...not good.

And, now a 5 line passage.  In literally any reading situation other than this, where scoring is by categories, meaning, I cannot quit, I would have baled by now.

WOW...now we have "FLASHBACK CONT'D" in the Slug.  Unreal.  Just read above how to format a Flashback and make it easy on yourself.  Please.

And, now we get, "THE PRESENT" in a Slug?  Do you like this way this looks?  Seriously, do you?  I sure don't.

Love the "we see" passage ending in a lovely orphan to close out the humorless 1st page.

2 full pages and I think there's been 1 attempt at humor.  This is not comedy, as there's really no attempt to make it a comedy.

Oh fuck...another Flashback?  I'm so tempted to stop reading.

I'm sorry, but this is just simply not good.  It's awkwardly written and formatted, there's no story, and the few attempts at humor are complete misses.

Wow...Page 4 is almost completely dialogue, and it ain't good dialogue.

Who is "Alex"?

WTF is going on now?  Complete tonal shift.  Giant rats?  Rats that explode when shot?  This is really bad, sorry to say

Ending makes ZERO SENSE.

Story - Very, very weak, and completely unbelievable.

Characters - Not good.

Dialogue - Not good.

Prose - Not at all good.

Criteria - You get 5 points.  You should feel very lucky.



-- but then offers no advise. He doesn't have to and it's a free site, but he proclaims to be about helping writers, he clearly isn't. How is he helping? He even says if he didn't have to read he would quite, wouldn't someone that wanted to help keep reading and point out the issues so the writer can better their craft - well no he wouldn't because that's not what he is trying to do.

I know a lot of people don't like my reviewing style either, but for the most part I will say I don't like something, and then offer what I think is the correct way or a better way to do it (the writer can agree or disagree and use what they want, or not, no skin off my back either way). Sure I don't always do that, it's not my job, but for the most part I definitely do. The difference is I also don't proclaim to be an expert who is 'helping writers'. I do it because that is the give and take nature of the site. Great writers on this site have moulded me into the writer I am today, and I do think I should attempt to give something back to SS.

I'm not entirely sure the recipient of the above review would agree that it was entertaining.

I blocked Jeff because his opinion means nothing to me, and he has nothing to offer me as a writer. I do think Jeff, as a large contributor to the site, is worth discussing though, but that's because people need to know that there is life after a bashing from him, and to not take any of it to heart, because at the end of the day they are probably still better writers, maybe not technically, but better storytellers, and that's damn important.

I think it's worth defining what I think a great script is, as you and I have disagreed what makes a well written script. For me a script that I can read from start to finish and not be taken out of the read is a good script. That doesn't mean it needs to be technically perfect, that means it needs to be engaging. Sure I point out a lot of minuscule issues in scripts, that's because that's the way I review and that's what I like to do. That doesn't automatically mean it's a bad script. I can point 20 things out and it could still be a brilliant script, it's just my way.

With effort and determination, anybody can learn to be a technically good writer. I barely passed English, I can't spell for shit, and grammarly is my best friend. I have learnt a lot of grammar stuff here and through my own learning to become a better writer as well but all in all I've always struggled. I also read a ton of screenwriting books and a ton of scripts, I taught myself to write. But the storytelling aspect of it, I don't necessarily think is teachable. Maybe the way stories are structured, and the common tropes of certain stories, but at the end of the day it's all about what goes on in your head.

So I don't see the point in Jeff bashing writers for technical stuff and talking to them like pieces of garbage. Help them if you want to, or point them in the right direction, it's that easy.




Revision History (2 edits; 1 reasons shown)
Warren  -  June 13th, 2019, 5:35am
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stevie
Posted: June 13th, 2019, 5:59am Report to Moderator
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Quoted from Matthew Taylor


I expected more bobble related titles to be honest...

Bobbleween
Nightmare on Bobble Street
Bobble Wars
The Bobble Witch Project
Bobble Runner
Guardians of the Bobble

... I spent most of the weekend trying to work bobble into a title


Lol great options!  Iím a big fan of one word title scripts   Bobbleution came pretty quick   I asked my daughter for other ideas but she declined lol




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DustinBowcot
Posted: June 13th, 2019, 6:51am Report to Moderator
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People always disagree regarding reviewing style... but, honestly, a writer needs to be strong and believe in themselves. No matter the delivery, or what a review says. A review with good intentions can be more damaging than an honest one that bluntly says what they think is wrong. Sometimes the writer deserves a bashing... like Frank in round 1.

Also, these are always just one opinion... at least with Jeff, you know you're going to get his honest feelings. He's always been good to my scripts when they've deserved it.
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Warren
Posted: June 13th, 2019, 6:59am Report to Moderator
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Quoted from DustinBowcot
People always disagree regarding reviewing style... but, honestly, a writer needs to be strong and believe in themselves. No matter the delivery, or what a review says. A review with good intentions can be more damaging than an honest one that bluntly says what they think is wrong. Sometimes the writer deserves a bashing... like Frank in round 1.

Also, these are always just one opinion... at least with Jeff, you know you're going to get his honest feelings. He's always been good to my scripts when they've deserved it.


I think for the most part we will have to agree to disagree, and that's fine by me.


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FrankM
Posted: June 13th, 2019, 8:24am Report to Moderator
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Quoted from DustinBowcot
Sometimes the writer deserves a bashing... like Frank in round 1.


I have a pretty thick skin for this sort of thing, the feedback for the technical writing I do for work is usually blistering, unfair, and often both.

But to nitpick just a bit... no one is being paid here, but most would like to be paid for their writing at some point. Therefore it behooves people to act professionally: bash the work, not the author.

Taking that to an extreme twists your review into knots (after all, it's clearer to say the writer made this mistake than to say the script contains this mistake), so sprinkle in some of that rarest of commodities... common sense.

Edit: Also, round 2 script is faring better. This is an extremely low bar, but I'll take it


Feature-length scripts:
Who Wants to Be a Princess? (Family)
Glass House (Horror anthology)

TV pilots:
"Kord" (Fantasy)
"Mal Suerte" (Superhero)

Additional scripts are listed here.
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ReneC
Posted: June 13th, 2019, 9:44am Report to Moderator
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Quoted from FrankM


Therefore it behooves people to act professionally: bash the work, not the author.


That's definitely true. We should be reviewing the scripts, not the writers. Any comments towards the writer makes it personal and judgmental, and we can't really judge a person based on the script we read.

Like when I reviewed Jeff's round 1 script, I called it racist and sexist. Jeff, you took that personally, but I was commenting what I saw on the page. I don't know if you are sexist or racist, I highly doubt it, but the pages speak for themselves. Whether that was your intention or not, whether it was a choice or not, I can't say and haven't given another thought to.


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DustinBowcot
Posted: June 13th, 2019, 9:57am Report to Moderator
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Frank... I meant it only in that you're usually a good writer... so when you do something bad, does it really hurt to bash you a little for it? I didn't mean it as in trying to crush a writer's will to write.

Obviously, a newbie, or somebody not as forum-savvy as yourself should never be bashed on a personal level. It just wouldn't be taken in the same spirit.
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eldave1
Posted: June 13th, 2019, 11:17am Report to Moderator
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Congrats to those who finished at the top or near it and encouragement to all for round II.

In terms of the theme on critical comments....My opinion ---

Rude comments should not be conflated with honest (frank) comments. One can be quite frank and objective without being mean. The warning signs I see in this regard are:

Confusing what a writer has done with the writer's motive or character.

Okay to say the first header is not formatted correctly because...(insert whatever)

Not quite okay to take that objective thing and conclude that the writer is (insert appropriate insult here, e.g., lazy). Because the reviewer has no way of knowing. The writer could have busted their ass try to right it in the best way possible.

Hyperbolic errors

Taking a technical issue or perhaps a series of technical issues and over stating their relative importance. e.g.,  You didn't CAP your character when intro'd - the writing is terrible!.

To me, empathy is always a good thing to have in the tool box. To me when you see a crappy script, keep the honest feedback, but throttle down on the diatribe. You know the writer was struggling. And there never is the need to insult. I mean - what objective is being served??? Does "It's stupid not to put a time in your header" provide any more value than - "You need to put a time in your header."??

Now, I do agree that writers should not demand any requirements in the critiques they receive. It's free. Have the backbone to take it or leave it.  That being said, that does not make it ideal for reviewers to review in a hostile manner. We can have both.  Writers accepting criticism for what it is AND no mean-spirited reviews. It really isn't that hard.



My Scripts can all be seen here:

http://dlambertson.wix.com/scripts
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DustinBowcot
Posted: June 13th, 2019, 11:23am Report to Moderator
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Some good counterbalancing points there. Very insightful. Thanks, Dave.
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eldave1
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Quoted from DustinBowcot
Some good counterbalancing points there. Very insightful. Thanks, Dave.


Thanks, mate.


My Scripts can all be seen here:

http://dlambertson.wix.com/scripts
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khamanna
Posted: June 13th, 2019, 12:45pm Report to Moderator
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I think that a good script will make the reader swallow all of his "bad writing" comments and make him mark accordingly. If a script fails to do so it's a writer's fault.

We just need to learn to take it. Some writers can't because they started with good scripts. They  have more of a talent I guess. So what? Those writers still have a long road to go. Try to match up to someone better. There's usually always someone better out there.

So, the bottomline is - oh, just take it.
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leitskev
Posted: June 13th, 2019, 12:47pm Report to Moderator
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Reviews should be given with a goal of being constructive to the writer. Slamming a script absolutely can be constructive...but the reviewer should at least keep the goal of being constructive in mind. This is a forum for writers. It's important to help writers improve, not to make them quit or leave the forum in search of more constructive pastures.

An exercise like an OWC can make it hard for us to do this because we're reading multiple scripts, all of them raw and forced into weird parameters. So I'm sure almost everyone of us has left remarks that could have been more tactfully worded.

As far as Jeff, I first encountered him in 2011 when I joined. He was as brutally frank in his opinions then as now. He was also the only person willing to get to know me and give honest feedback. And it was extremely helpful.

He's not going to change. The things that bothered him about scripts 10 years ago still bother him. The script issues he focuses on might strike some of us as obsessive, but he's judged every script he's read in at least 10 years exactly the same way. He's not playing favorites. A writer has to take his notes, like anyone's and decide what he agrees with and what he doesn't. It can be maddening at times! lol But it has a value.
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ReneC
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All great points.


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Matthew Taylor
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If anyone gets offended by or thinks something I have written is harsh and not in the spirit of things then please call me out on it as I most likely don't realize I'm doing it... I'm terrible at human interaction which is why I hide away and write


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Philostrate
Posted: June 13th, 2019, 1:09pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from Warren

Thanks, mate. I really enjoyed yours as well. Just need to change that last scene and you'll have a great little short all round. Glad to see you up the top as well. I think your writing has come a long way


Thanks, Warren. I really appreciate the words. I still have a long way to go, but every little step is a step closer.


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FrankM
Posted: June 13th, 2019, 1:19pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from DustinBowcot
Frank... I meant it only in that you're usually a good writer... so when you do something bad, does it really hurt to bash you a little for it?


I am continually impressed with the mostly-fully-formed stories that OWC regulars churn out on demand; my vomit drafts seem... vomittier. Hopefully itís something I can get better at.


Feature-length scripts:
Who Wants to Be a Princess? (Family)
Glass House (Horror anthology)

TV pilots:
"Kord" (Fantasy)
"Mal Suerte" (Superhero)

Additional scripts are listed here.
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eldave1
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Quoted from leitskev
Reviews should be given with a goal of being constructive to the writer. Slamming a script absolutely can be constructive...but the reviewer should at least keep the goal of being constructive in mind. This is a forum for writers. It's important to help writers improve, not to make them quit or leave the forum in search of more constructive pastures.

An exercise like an OWC can make it hard for us to do this because we're reading multiple scripts, all of them raw and forced into weird parameters. So I'm sure almost everyone of us has left remarks that could have been more tactfully worded.

As far as Jeff, I first encountered him in 2011 when I joined. He was as brutally frank in his opinions then as now. He was also the only person willing to get to know me and give honest feedback. And it was extremely helpful.

He's not going to change. The things that bothered him about scripts 10 years ago still bother him. The script issues he focuses on might strike some of us as obsessive, but he's judged every script he's read in at least 10 years exactly the same way. He's not playing favorites. A writer has to take his notes, like anyone's and decide what he agrees with and what he doesn't. It can be maddening at times! lol But it has a value.


Constructive is a nice ideal.  Some peeps misinterpret it as pandering - it's not. It's just giving advice in a non-destructive manner.

Being "frank" is fine. I've never understood the benefit of being brutally frank when just being frank gets the job done.  It's a weak move, IMO.  



My Scripts can all be seen here:

http://dlambertson.wix.com/scripts
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PKCardinal
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Quoted from Matthew Taylor
If anyone gets offended by or thinks something I have written is harsh and not in the spirit of things then please call me out on it as I most likely don't realize I'm doing it... I'm terrible at human interaction which is why I hide away and write


Your reviews across the board have stood out to me these two rounds. Some excellent advice. I read a script, write a review, check the other reviews... boom, there you are... me: "That's a great point." It's happening consistently.

So, I'd say... keep on keeping on.

Oh, and great first round script for you. Well done. Can't wait to see which is yours this round.


PaulKWrites.com

60 Feet Under - Low budget, contained thriller/Feature
The Hand of God - Low budget, semi-contained thriller/Feature
Wait Till Next Year - Disney-style family sports comedy/Feature

Many shorts available for production: comedy, thriller, drama, light horror
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leitskev
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Quoted from eldave1


Constructive is a nice ideal.  Some peeps misinterpret it as pandering - it's not. It's just giving advice in a non-destructive manner.

Being "frank" is fine. I've never understood the benefit of being brutally frank when just being frank gets the job done.  It's a weak move, IMO.  



Absolutely.

I've mentioned here that I participate in the NYC Midnight contests. Those paid judges break it down this way: "what the judges liked", then "what the judges think needs work". That works very well. I try to follow that model when I can, though the rapid read format for these challenges doesn't always allow it. But if there's something the writer has done well, why not try to find it and mention it? LC does a fantastic job of that here.

Jeff's method COULD scare off a new writer. But it didn't scare me off, and I was new when I came here. And my scripts were far worse in format than anything here now. He ripped me so many new ones I was like a walking crap shower. But I think once people realize he's doing that to almost every script they can live with it.
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Dreamscale
Posted: June 13th, 2019, 1:52pm Report to Moderator
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Man, I do some real work for a few hours, come back here, and there I am again, being tossed back and forth.

Same old, same old discussion here.

What I find absolutely amazing and appalling at the same time is the staggering amount of reviews where many negatives are thrown out about the completely illogical and boring story, then something to the affect, "But, don't worry, I'll grade you down the middle."

We have so many "stories" this round that are completely shoehorning in a sewer...because...well, they have to.  Yet, I bet they're receiving fairly high scores (a high score to me is 3 and over), when they should be getting 1's and 2's across the board.

We'll see come Friday, but I'm pretty sure, just as I was correct in Round 1 scoring.
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PKCardinal
Posted: June 13th, 2019, 2:06pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from Dreamscale
Man, I do some real work for a few hours, come back here, and there I am again, being tossed back and forth.

Same old, same old discussion here.

What I find absolutely amazing and appalling at the same time is the staggering amount of reviews where many negatives are thrown out about the completely illogical and boring story, then something to the affect, "But, don't worry, I'll grade you down the middle."

We have so many "stories" this round that are completely shoehorning in a sewer...because...well, they have to.  Yet, I bet they're receiving fairly high scores (a high score to me is 3 and over), when they should be getting 1's and 2's across the board.

We'll see come Friday, but I'm pretty sure, just as I was correct in Round 1 scoring.



Not to worry. If a person grades every script, then it comes out in the wash. My worst script might grade a 14, yours a 5. Same script would still be at the bottom of our respective piles.

(Not saying my worst script is a 14... it's purely a hypothetical.)


PaulKWrites.com

60 Feet Under - Low budget, contained thriller/Feature
The Hand of God - Low budget, semi-contained thriller/Feature
Wait Till Next Year - Disney-style family sports comedy/Feature

Many shorts available for production: comedy, thriller, drama, light horror
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FrankM
Posted: June 13th, 2019, 2:09pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from eldave1
Being "frank" is fine. I've never understood the benefit of being brutally frank when just being frank gets the job done.  It's a weak move, IMO.


Maybe I should change my screen name to BrutallyFrank


Feature-length scripts:
Who Wants to Be a Princess? (Family)
Glass House (Horror anthology)

TV pilots:
"Kord" (Fantasy)
"Mal Suerte" (Superhero)

Additional scripts are listed here.
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DustinBowcot
Posted: June 13th, 2019, 2:11pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from FrankM


Maybe I should change my screen name to BrutallyFrank


But why, when just being Frank gets the job done?
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eldave1
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Quoted from FrankM


Maybe I should change my screen name to BrutallyFrank


or Perfectlyfrank


My Scripts can all be seen here:

http://dlambertson.wix.com/scripts
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eldave1
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Quoted from Dreamscale
Man, I do some real work for a few hours, come back here, and there I am again, being tossed back and forth.

Same old, same old discussion here.

What I find absolutely amazing and appalling at the same time is the staggering amount of reviews where many negatives are thrown out about the completely illogical and boring story, then something to the affect, "But, don't worry, I'll grade you down the middle."

We have so many "stories" this round that are completely shoehorning in a sewer...because...well, they have to.  Yet, I bet they're receiving fairly high scores (a high score to me is 3 and over), when they should be getting 1's and 2's across the board.

We'll see come Friday, but I'm pretty sure, just as I was correct in Round 1 scoring.


The cream will rise to the top - it always does in these things. Haven't seen an OWC yet where I had a real disagreement with the final outcome.



My Scripts can all be seen here:

http://dlambertson.wix.com/scripts
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DustinBowcot
Posted: June 13th, 2019, 2:19pm Report to Moderator
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Zack
Posted: June 13th, 2019, 2:20pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from Dreamscale
Man, I do some real work for a few hours, come back here, and there I am again, being tossed back and forth.


It's not easy being the most popular girl in school.

As for the topic of harsh reviews... I have no issues with a brutally honest review, as long as it's honest. The great Baltis once told me "Your script sucks goat nuts and porks chickens in the butt. Sorry, but SS isn't a back patting club. " God, I miss that guy.


An example of my writing...

FOR SATAN - short, horror, 14 pgs (revised draft) - A group of thrill-seekers explore a creepy old house on Halloween night. Think you know this story? Think again.

Revision History (1 edits)
Zack  -  June 13th, 2019, 2:53pm
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leitskev
Posted: June 13th, 2019, 2:25pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from eldave1


The cream will rise to the top - it always does in these things. Haven't seen an OWC yet where I had a real disagreement with the final outcome.



I didn't really agree with the outcome last round. But I'm not knocking the scripts that were at the top. I didn't think any of them really stood out. Nor have any yet for me this round. I remember once you did(I thnk it was you) an elevator OWC that clearly stood above the others. Last round the spider one clearly stood above. So far this time we could have done a lottery.

As for Jeff, I'm not taking the bait, my friend. I did not share reads with a single person, I knew none of the writers. I tried to score them as fairly as I could. ALL of the stories were foregettable. And the parameters were tough, the time limited, the pages limted. If one didn't try try to find some positive in the work might as well just check them all out and cancel the contest. So I looked for any positive I could find.
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AnthonyCawood
Posted: June 13th, 2019, 2:26pm Report to Moderator
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What I find to be one of the most distasteful things in comments is when the reviewer actually criticises other reviewers for their opinions because they are different to their own...

ALL opinions are subjective and no one on here is some sort of uber screenwriter that we should value the opinion of over all others.

I don't mean debate over technical aspects or individual aspects of a script...

I mean...

'I think this is shit and can't believe other people think it's good'

Paraphrasing, but you get the idea.



Anthony Cawood - Award winning screenwriter
Available Short screenplays - http://www.anthonycawood.co.uk/short-scripts
Available Feature screenplays - http://www.anthonycawood.co.uk/feature-film-scripts/
Screenwriting articles - http://www.anthonycawood.co.uk/articles
IMDB Link - http://www.imdb.com/name/nm6495672/?ref_=fn_al_nm_1
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Dreamscale
Posted: June 13th, 2019, 2:34pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from AnthonyCawood
What I find to be one of the most distasteful things in comments is when the reviewer actually criticises other reviewers for their opinions because they are different to their own...

ALL opinions are subjective and no one on here is some sort of uber screenwriter that we should value the opinion of over all others.

I don't mean debate over technical aspects or individual aspects of a script...

I mean...

'I think this is shit and can't believe other people think it's good'

Paraphrasing, but you get the idea.


You must not be paraphrasing me, because I wouldn't say, "I think this sucks", I'd just say, "This sucks", and I'd be right 999 times out of 1,000.

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PKCardinal
Posted: June 13th, 2019, 2:34pm Report to Moderator
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Maybe next tourney should include a "Technical" category. For people who find the technical aspects of writing important, it would give an outlet for reflecting that.


PaulKWrites.com

60 Feet Under - Low budget, contained thriller/Feature
The Hand of God - Low budget, semi-contained thriller/Feature
Wait Till Next Year - Disney-style family sports comedy/Feature

Many shorts available for production: comedy, thriller, drama, light horror
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Zack
Posted: June 13th, 2019, 2:37pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from AnthonyCawood
What I find to be one of the most distasteful things in comments is when the reviewer actually criticises other reviewers for their opinions because they are different to their own...



Completely agree. This happens far to often and it really needs to stop. Actually had someone do this on my round 2 script thread. Won't name names... But it's not cool.


An example of my writing...

FOR SATAN - short, horror, 14 pgs (revised draft) - A group of thrill-seekers explore a creepy old house on Halloween night. Think you know this story? Think again.
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Gary in Houston
Posted: June 13th, 2019, 2:38pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from FrankM


Maybe I should change my screen name to BrutallyFrank


Weíre missing the obvious here:

FranklySpeaking


An utterly mediocre writer who somehow still falls bass ackwards into getting some of his scripts produced.
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AnthonyCawood
Posted: June 13th, 2019, 2:44pm Report to Moderator
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I was paraphrasing you Jeff, to quote...

"I read this and then read the reviews, and I'm rather shocked at all the praise for being so well written and such a strong entry.  I don't get any of that."

I don't normally pay any attention to your comments Jeff, they are yours and I respect your right to have them.

But I find it sad that you feel the need to call out other writers for having their own opinions like this.


Anthony Cawood - Award winning screenwriter
Available Short screenplays - http://www.anthonycawood.co.uk/short-scripts
Available Feature screenplays - http://www.anthonycawood.co.uk/feature-film-scripts/
Screenwriting articles - http://www.anthonycawood.co.uk/articles
IMDB Link - http://www.imdb.com/name/nm6495672/?ref_=fn_al_nm_1
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Dreamscale
Posted: June 13th, 2019, 2:50pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from AnthonyCawood
I was paraphrasing you Jeff, to quote...

"I read this and then read the reviews, and I'm rather shocked at all the praise for being so well written and such a strong entry.  I don't get any of that."

I don't normally pay any attention to your comments Jeff, they are yours and I respect your right to have them.

But I find it sad that you feel the need to call out other writers for having their own opinions like this.


no reason to incorrectly paraphrase me, Anthony...just quote me!

I'm sorry to make you sad, offend you, disgust you, etc.  Seems to me you're pretty easy to upset.

Listen, some things are gray, but some are either black or white.  A shitty script is always going to be a shitty script, and if I say it's shitty, it's shitty.  Just trust me on this, Son.

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leitskev
Posted: June 13th, 2019, 2:58pm Report to Moderator
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If there's shit in a script is it shitty?
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FrankM
Posted: June 13th, 2019, 2:59pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from leitskev
If there's shit in a script is it shitty?


A script can involve shit, it can be full of shit, and it can be shitty... independently or in any combination.


Feature-length scripts:
Who Wants to Be a Princess? (Family)
Glass House (Horror anthology)

TV pilots:
"Kord" (Fantasy)
"Mal Suerte" (Superhero)

Additional scripts are listed here.
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eldave1
Posted: June 13th, 2019, 3:02pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from leitskev


I didn't really agree with the outcome last round. But I'm not knocking the scripts that were at the top. I didn't think any of them really stood out. Nor have any yet for me this round.


Maybe they are just decimal points apart. The top score could be 3.3 and the 10th score 3.


My Scripts can all be seen here:

http://dlambertson.wix.com/scripts
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eldave1
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Quoted from Dreamscale


You must not be paraphrasing me, because I wouldn't say, "I think this sucks", I'd just say, "This sucks", and I'd be right 999 times out of 1,000.



Typo

Missing a decimal point.


My Scripts can all be seen here:

http://dlambertson.wix.com/scripts
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Dreamscale
Posted: June 13th, 2019, 3:04pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from eldave1


Maybe they are just decimal points apart. The top score could be 3.3 and the 10th score 3.


Yeah...and the 17th script is at 2.999999999.

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AnthonyCawood
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Sadly Jeff, like most internet trolls, I think you actually believe the shit you peddle, but c'est la vie.


Anthony Cawood - Award winning screenwriter
Available Short screenplays - http://www.anthonycawood.co.uk/short-scripts
Available Feature screenplays - http://www.anthonycawood.co.uk/feature-film-scripts/
Screenwriting articles - http://www.anthonycawood.co.uk/articles
IMDB Link - http://www.imdb.com/name/nm6495672/?ref_=fn_al_nm_1
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Dreamscale
Posted: June 13th, 2019, 3:06pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from AnthonyCawood
Sadly Jeff, like most internet trolls, I think you actually believe the shit you peddle, but c'est la vie.


Name calling is not nice, Anthony.

I'm very offended and upset over this.

Please take it back and pinky promise never to do such a mean thing again.

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eldave1
Posted: June 13th, 2019, 3:11pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from Dreamscale


Yeah...and the 17th script is at 2.999999999.



You never know.


My Scripts can all be seen here:

http://dlambertson.wix.com/scripts
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eldave1
Posted: June 13th, 2019, 3:19pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from Dreamscale
Man, I do some real work for a few hours, come back here, and there I am again, being tossed back and forth.

Same old, same old discussion here.

What I find absolutely amazing and appalling at the same time is the staggering amount of reviews where many negatives are thrown out about the completely illogical and boring story, then something to the affect, "But, don't worry, I'll grade you down the middle."

We have so many "stories" this round that are completely shoehorning in a sewer...because...well, they have to.  Yet, I bet they're receiving fairly high scores (a high score to me is 3 and over), when they should be getting 1's and 2's across the board.

We'll see come Friday, but I'm pretty sure, just as I was correct in Round 1 scoring.


You're not surprised - right? I mean you post volatile stuff which by it's nature results in reaction.  



My Scripts can all be seen here:

http://dlambertson.wix.com/scripts
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FrankM
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(Deleted for math error, did not take into account each script could get a different number of scores due to DNS)


Feature-length scripts:
Who Wants to Be a Princess? (Family)
Glass House (Horror anthology)

TV pilots:
"Kord" (Fantasy)
"Mal Suerte" (Superhero)

Additional scripts are listed here.

Revision History (1 edits)
FrankM  -  June 14th, 2019, 4:33am
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Dreamscale
Posted: June 13th, 2019, 3:29pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from eldave1


You're not surprised - right? I mean you post volatile stuff which by it's nature results in reaction.  


SS is always full of surprises...so I guess nothing really surprises me anymore.

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khamanna
Posted: June 13th, 2019, 3:31pm Report to Moderator
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There's a non-reviewer by the way. 0 reviews or have I missed his reviews? I know he's not new.
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Gary in Houston
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Quoted from khamanna
There's a non-reviewer by the way. 0 reviews or have I missed his reviews? I know he's not new.


Maybe not. Libby is in this time and thereís a new addition (KevinS I think) so I think there was one non-entry from someone who entered round one. I wonít mention the writer in the event Iím wrong (as I often am).


An utterly mediocre writer who somehow still falls bass ackwards into getting some of his scripts produced.
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leitskev
Posted: June 13th, 2019, 3:44pm Report to Moderator
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There is a new writer, Kevin S. I've talked to him in PM. Seems like a nice guy, but I told you have to review if you want to make connections. He's done one or two so far. He has til the end to get caught up. I've only done 8 myself.

I have some new pressure. I've been getting behind on my novel. Dena is going to write the script version when it's done. We have an interested publisher and they contacted her today wondering what's up. So we told them a  month. I really have to put my energy into that.
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PKCardinal
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Quoted from leitskev


I have some new pressure. I've been getting behind on my novel. Dena is going to write the script version when it's done. We have an interested publisher and they contacted her today wondering what's up. So we told them a  month. I really have to put my energy into that.


That's excellent. Keep your eye on the ball! These challenges are easy/fun distractions.


PaulKWrites.com

60 Feet Under - Low budget, contained thriller/Feature
The Hand of God - Low budget, semi-contained thriller/Feature
Wait Till Next Year - Disney-style family sports comedy/Feature

Many shorts available for production: comedy, thriller, drama, light horror
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Matthew Taylor
Posted: June 13th, 2019, 3:56pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from khamanna
There's a non-reviewer by the way. 0 reviews or have I missed his reviews? I know he's not new.


Maybe he's ill again.... Or maybe we are talking about someone different


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khamanna
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Quoted from Matthew Taylor


Maybe he's ill again.... Or maybe we are talking about someone different


Aa, ill! Yes, we're talking about the same guy.
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khamanna
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Quoted from khamanna


Aa, ill! Yes, we're talking about the same guy.


To all - I'm not referring to Kevin S. Kevin is new to the site if I'm not mistaken.
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Zack
Posted: June 13th, 2019, 4:16pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from khamanna


Aa, ill! Yes, we're talking about the same guy.


If you guys are talking about who I think you're talking about, and you are   , the writer in question reviewed in round 1, though I'm not sure about round 2. Still got some time though.


An example of my writing...

FOR SATAN - short, horror, 14 pgs (revised draft) - A group of thrill-seekers explore a creepy old house on Halloween night. Think you know this story? Think again.
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khamanna
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Quoted from leitskev
There is a new writer, Kevin S. I've talked to him in PM. Seems like a nice guy, but I told you have to review if you want to make connections. He's done one or two so far. He has til the end to get caught up. I've only done 8 myself.

I have some new pressure. I've been getting behind on my novel. Dena is going to write the script version when it's done. We have an interested publisher and they contacted her today wondering what's up. So we told them a  month. I really have to put my energy into that.


Congrats, very nice. Good luck to you with it!
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khamanna
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Quoted from Zack


If you guys are talking about who I think you're talking about, and you are   , the writer in question reviewed in round 1, though I'm not sure about round 2. Still got some time though.


Oh, good. Missed his reviews, my bad then. Now let me go back to reviewing, too.
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Warren
Posted: June 13th, 2019, 5:01pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from PKCardinal


Your reviews across the board have stood out to me these two rounds. Some excellent advice. I read a script, write a review, check the other reviews... boom, there you are... me: "That's a great point." It's happening consistently.

So, I'd say... keep on keeping on.

Oh, and great first round script for you. Well done. Can't wait to see which is yours this round.


Agreed. You have a lot to offer.


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FrankM
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Quoted from DustinBowcot
Frank... I meant it only in that you're usually a good writer... so when you do something bad, does it really hurt to bash you a little for it? I didn't mean it as in trying to crush a writer's will to write.


Well, I posted a link to the before-chopped-to-five-pages version in the thread, which I expect will also please approximately 0% of readers, but it's there.


Feature-length scripts:
Who Wants to Be a Princess? (Family)
Glass House (Horror anthology)

TV pilots:
"Kord" (Fantasy)
"Mal Suerte" (Superhero)

Additional scripts are listed here.
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Mr. Blonde
Posted: June 13th, 2019, 10:35pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from eldave1
Maybe they are just decimal points apart. The top score could be 3.3 and the 10th score 3.


The combined score differential is 1.72. There are several different writers separated by .01 from others.


Quoted from FrankM
Sean has been marking ties, so at least we know the ordering is real.


That was actually from Don, regarding ties in the individual scoring categories. Oddly enough, no writers are currently tied with the overall scores.


Quoted from leitskev
I have some new pressure. I've been getting behind on my novel. Dena is going to write the script version when it's done. We have an interested publisher and they contacted her today wondering what's up. So we told them a  month. I really have to put my energy into that.


Then that has to be the priority, Kevin. This is just here for the fun of it. That is a legitimate obligation. Go for it and good luck with it. =)


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Dreamscale
Posted: June 13th, 2019, 10:55pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from Mr. Blonde
The combined score differential is 1.72. There are several different writers separated by .01 from others. =)


1.72 points between 1st and 20th?  That is totally fucked up...sorry to say.

Actually, I mean, that is kind of strange and weird.  Does this make sense?

I don't have an opinion, but will send ti off to those that are much better at this kind of thing.

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Mr. Blonde
Posted: June 13th, 2019, 10:58pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from Dreamscale
1.72 points between 1st and 20th?  That is totally fucked up...sorry to say.


In which way, just out of curiosity? What are you referring to, Jeff?


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Dreamscale
Posted: June 13th, 2019, 11:03pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from Mr. Blonde


In which way, just out of curiosity? What are you referring to, Jeff?


Nothing...that's great...for entries in 17th to 20th.

No complaints at all.  You're doing a great job, Sean.

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Mr. Blonde
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Quoted from Dreamscale
Nothing...that's great...for entries in 17th to 20th.


No, it's fine, I'm not judging or anything. I was just curious what you actually meant. Is the score differential too high or too low, less than what you thought, something like that?


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Dreamscale
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Quoted from Mr. Blonde


No, it's fine, I'm not judging or anything. I was just curious what you actually meant. Is the score differential too high or too low, less than what you thought, something like that?


It's WAY TOO LOW!!!

From 1st to 20th, we should have a differential of at least 3.0...probably more, based on peeps giving 5 scores in multiple categories, and 1 entrant losing 50% of his scores for not voting.

It's crazy to me, but you guys all think I'm crazy, period...so...it's probably  absolutely perfect.

Hey, it's like I've said over and over...the scoring system is seriously flawed, especially if that's the overall differential after 1 round of voting

Anyone else care to chime in?
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Mr. Blonde
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Quoted from Dreamscale
From 1st to 20th, we should have a differential of at least 3.0...probably more, based on peeps giving 5 scores in multiple categories, and 1 entrant losing 50% of his scores for not voting.

Hey, it's like I've said over and over...the scoring system is seriously flawed, especially if that's the overall differential after 1 round of voting


Part of the problem was how many scripts had points knocked off in the Meets Criteria category. No script had less than 3 Did Not Meet Criteria hits. That comes down on me for creating an all-or-nothing category like that. If I do this again, I'll go with a 1-5 for that one, too, to avoid this kind of problem. Live and learn, what can I say?


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khamanna
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Quoted from Mr. Blonde


Part of the problem was how many scripts had points knocked off in the Meets Criteria category. No script had less than 3 Did Not Meet Criteria hits. That comes down on me for creating an all-or-nothing category like that. If I do this again, I'll go with a 1-5 for that one, too, to avoid this kind of problem. Live and learn, what can I say?


I'm sure each one will still have no less than 3 Did not meet Criteria hits. We'll just put 1 which means did not meet criteria. And the overall score would be lower for the Criteria for each script btw.
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khamanna
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Quoted from Dreamscale


1 entrant losing 50% of his scores for not voting.


What? I mean it wasn't me or anything but do we lose 50% of the scores for our own entry for not voting? I thought there was not penalty for non-voters.

Which is a good punishment. It's just not the way I remember it.
Sean?
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Mr. Blonde
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Quoted from khamanna
What? I mean it wasn't me or anything but do we lose 50% of the scores for our own entry for not voting? I thought there was not penalty for non-voters.

Which is a good punishment. It's just not the way I remember it.
Sean?


There isn't. There are two penalties. 1. Not entering a script drops your overall score by 1 grade point. 2. Not voting for more than half the scripts results in your votes not counting for that round.


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Warren
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Quoted from Mr. Blonde


The combined score differential is 1.72. There are several different writers separated by .01 from others.


So that means it should be a really close race all the way to the end for all entrants? I donít think I understand the significance. Maths isnít a strong point.


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Dreamscale
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Quoted from Warren
So that means it should be a really close race all the way to the end for all entrants? I donít think I understand the significance. Maths isnít a strong point.


We get that, Warren, that math and a large number of things aren't your strong point, but ...do the math, brother.  It's very simple math.  I think even you can do it.

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Scar Tissue Films
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What you're saying is that there are three people who disqualified Bobbelution and Melt (the two that tied for top criteria)...both of which inarguably met the criteria...and at least four people said Bobble ageddon wasn't a comedy sci fi? Fucking hell!

I mean the way it was set up did sort of force you to disqualify some to give credit to those who nailed the fusion, but there's subjective opinion and then there's flat out wrong.
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Dreamscale
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Quoted from Scar Tissue Films

What you're saying is that there are three people who disqualified Bobbelution and Melt (the two that tied for top criteria)...both of which inarguably met the criteria...and at least four people said Bobble ageddon wasn't a comedy sci fi? Fucking hell!

I mean the way it was set up did sort of force you to disqualify some to give credit to those who nailed the fusion, but there's subjective opinion and then there's flat out wrong.


Yep!!!  Exactly!

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DustinBowcot
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Quoted from Mr. Blonde


No script had less than 3 Did Not Meet Criteria hits.



I find that incredible. Even with the 'Yes, No' thing, I still find it hard to believe that not a single script met the criteria for everybody.
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Matthew Taylor
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Any scoring system that lets me wiggle to the top is aces in my book  


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Scar Tissue Films
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Quoted from Matthew Taylor
Any scoring system that lets me wiggle to the top is aces in my book  


You should be an extra 4 clear, at least...so at least the rest of us are still in contention.
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Matthew Taylor
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Quoted from Scar Tissue Films


You should be an extra 4 clear, at least...so at least the rest of us are still in contention.


From the sounds of it, we will all be in contention right up until the last round. My round 2 entry is looking iffy anyway. I'm gonna screenshot the rankings so when I come tumbling down them I can look back with fond memories lol

Personally, if it was me I would just use a simple ranking system (IE each reviewer has to list the entries from best to worst) and then use a ranking points system similar to F1.

This way the entries are being judged against each other, it will help (but not eliminate) tactical voting as each reviewer HAS to give top marks to someone


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DustinBowcot
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That scoring system sounds like a great idea... I just don't know how the F1 ranking system works regarding the score differentiation. Scoring from 15 down to 1 (if 15 entries) would look like a mountain to climb if coming in last. Coming last twice would see your script on 2 and the top script potentially on 30.
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stevie
Posted: June 14th, 2019, 4:20am Report to Moderator
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Sorry IÔŅĹm late to this party   Am in my hometown now!

So my script Bobbleution was classed as zero criteria by 3?  It was action/comedy!  How the hell? Fair enough if peeps didnÔŅĹt like it but it was one of the few that did meet the criteria  lol

Anyway all good

So where can I vote for the Round 2 scripts? I deleted Dons email by mistake lol



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Matthew Taylor
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Quoted from DustinBowcot
That scoring system sounds like a great idea... I just don't know how the F1 ranking system works regarding the score differentiation. Scoring from 15 down to 1 (if 15 entries) would look like a mountain to climb if coming in last. Coming last twice would see your script on 2 and the top script potentially on 30.


Maybe Eurovision would have been a better example.... but most people here won't know what that is.

Yeah it would be a mountain to climb, but if they have consistently been ranked towards the bottom across all reviewers over two rounds, and another writer consistently ranked towards the top - isn't that the way it should be?
I would hope it would motivate the writer at the bottom to try harder in the following rounds rather than just give up... but that's up to the type of person they are, can't control that.



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stevie
Posted: June 14th, 2019, 4:24am Report to Moderator
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Cheers Matty



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LC
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Did you get it Stevie?
The voting ballots were PMd by Don - I wondered if that was for a reason.
Probably not, but just to be sure, Matt or anyone else can PM you the link.

Or I can.
Lemme know.

* PM'd you so that Matt doesn't have to do it twice.


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stevie
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Cheers Lib   I must deleted it inadvertently    Will fill it out tomoz   Been a long day of travel



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LC
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When does voting close?
I haven't got mine in yet either.

I'll check. Just being lazy...


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Warren
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Quoted from Matthew Taylor


Maybe Eurovision would have been a better example.... but most people here won't know what that is.




I do because Australia has a contestant, figure that shit out.


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AnthonyCawood
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I'm not sure Eurovision is a great example... England got points deducted retrospectively this year


Anthony Cawood - Award winning screenwriter
Available Short screenplays - http://www.anthonycawood.co.uk/short-scripts
Available Feature screenplays - http://www.anthonycawood.co.uk/feature-film-scripts/
Screenwriting articles - http://www.anthonycawood.co.uk/articles
IMDB Link - http://www.imdb.com/name/nm6495672/?ref_=fn_al_nm_1
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khamanna
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I do not have the card for this round. Libby could you forward it to me please?
I still have 4 to read though. Hopefully today
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LC
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Kham, coming right atcha!
P.S. I'm not at all sure it has to be on the down low, but just to be sure.


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Mr. Blonde
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Quoted from LC
When does voting close?


About 3 and a half days.


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LC
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Thanks Sean!


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khamanna
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Thanks, got it! And plenty of time to finish the reads
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khamanna
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Quoted from Matthew Taylor


Maybe Eurovision would have been a better example.... but most people here won't know what that is.

Yeah it would be a mountain to climb, but if they have consistently been ranked towards the bottom across all reviewers over two rounds, and another writer consistently ranked towards the top - isn't that the way it should be?
I would hope it would motivate the writer at the bottom to try harder in the following rounds rather than just give up... but that's up to the type of person they are, can't control that.


That's a good scoring idea. I marked one entry yesterday as all fours. And just read an entry that I wanted to give all fives but remembered that the other one was no worse. So in a way Im trying to see how they measure in relation to each other. I always do. So scoring your way would just simplify that task.
Actually we could all score that way with Seans scoring system if we wanted to.

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Gary in Houston
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Would someone mind sending me a PM with the scoresheet as well? I somehow must have deleted mine from Don. Sorry Don!


An utterly mediocre writer who somehow still falls bass ackwards into getting some of his scripts produced.
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LC
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Sent, Gary!


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Gary in Houston
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Thanks Libby! Youíre the best!


An utterly mediocre writer who somehow still falls bass ackwards into getting some of his scripts produced.
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Dreamscale
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Scoring from 1 for the worst and whatever for the best is never, ever going to work.  It's actually quite foolish to even think it would.

We're reading 20 scripts over a 7-10 day time period.  How in the world could we do that remotely fairly?  I mean, Hell, Warren has trouble with simple math - you really think he knows the difference between small numbers and large ones?  

It should be so simple with a 0-5 scoring system.  But then, again, everyone needs to understand that throwing out 5's to half the entries doesn't help, and doesn't make sense.

Kev thinks I pick on him for bringing him up alot, but I don't mean it in a bad way, but I'm going to do it again now, because I think it's a perfect example.

Kev says over and over that it's very unlikely anyone here is going to put together a truly great script in 72 hours (or 3 or 4, as it usually turns out).  And he's right.  Some are much better than others, but none are perfect, and only a few are even good.  Scores of 5 should rarely be awarded, whether it's an overall score or a category score.

I mean, c'mon, let's face it and be honest....there are alot of very poor entries in round 2.  There's just no way around that, yet, we see the same peeps routinely, over and over gush out praise to scripts that are a 2 out of 5 at best.  I honestly don't get it.

Then, we have others saying that they didn't get it at all, it's a mess, but they really like it.  Huh?  How does that even work?

How in the world can peeps get away with purposely lowering or increasing scores, for their own betterment?  I say Sean posts the actual scores each round from each voter, so we see who the cheats are.  That way, they'd be hard pressed to continue doing it, round after round, knowing their gig is up and everyone knows what they're doing.

Harsh?  Life is harsh.  And, didn't you have a cheater in this last year, who was never named?  Someone trying to increase their scores by creating phantom accounts or something?  I bet whoever that cheater was, they're doing everything they can to better their scores again this year.  Once a cheat, always a cheat.
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Zack
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Quoted from Dreamscale


How in the world can peeps get away with purposely lowering or increasing scores, for their own betterment?  I say Sean posts the actual scores each round from each voter, so we see who the cheats are.  That way, they'd be hard pressed to continue doing it, round after round, knowing their gig is up and everyone knows what they're doing.

Harsh?  Life is harsh.  And, didn't you have a cheater in this last year, who was never named?  Someone trying to increase their scores by creating phantom accounts or something?  I bet whoever that cheater was, they're doing everything they can to better their scores again this year.  Once a cheat, always a cheat.


I'm also curious to see the individual votes. Would there be any drawbacks to revealing them?

As for cheaters... Any who is caught cheating should be banned from OWC'S/Tournaments. Simple as that.


An example of my writing...

FOR SATAN - short, horror, 14 pgs (revised draft) - A group of thrill-seekers explore a creepy old house on Halloween night. Think you know this story? Think again.
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khamanna
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I wasn't saying let's do 1-20. 1-10 at most. 1-8  ideally.
And there should be and would be a lot of 4s or 5s.

It's going to be a headache to decide where each stand on the scale of 1-20. Many are on the same level even the best ones.

I do have an entry at all fives thistime. Last time it was two. Doc is Out and the other Head Full of Lightening. I'm surprised these are not the best entries. I don't lie when I say I like them the best. If anything I can't understand that everyone else doesn't share my opinion.

This time I think I'm on board with everyone else.
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Matthew Taylor
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Quoted from Dreamscale
Scoring from 1 for the worst and whatever for the best is never, ever going to work.  It's actually quite foolish to even think it would.


Why wouldn't it work? I'm not arguing by the way, I'm just curious. Who would be unable to simply list the entries in order from their favourite to least favourite?

EDIT: I mentioned it being similar to F1 because after 10th place, no one scores any points - The points are also weighted so the point gap between 1st and 2nd is greater than 9th and 10th


Quoted Text
Scores of 5 should rarely be awarded, whether it's an overall score or a category score.


Does this not contradict your argument about the difference in top and bottom scores being too low? if we don't use the two extremes in the scoring (I.E 5's and 1's) then won't that result in scores bunching together somewhere in the middle?

Whereas, if we score the entries only against each other, the end result will be a much larger score gap between top and bottom spot



Quoted Text
Harsh?  Life is harsh.  And, didn't you have a cheater in this last year, who was never named?  Someone trying to increase their scores by creating phantom accounts or something?  I bet whoever that cheater was, they're doing everything they can to better their scores again this year.  Once a cheat, always a cheat.


Did someone actually do that? That's the saddest thing I have heard in a while lol



Revision History (3 edits; 1 reasons shown)
Matthew Taylor  -  June 14th, 2019, 10:30am
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DustinBowcot
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Quoted from Dreamscale
Scoring from 1 for the worst and whatever for the best is never, ever going to work.  It's actually quite foolish to even think it would.

We're reading 20 scripts over a 7-10 day time period.  How in the world could we do that remotely fairly?  I mean, Hell, Warren has trouble with simple math - you really think he knows the difference between small numbers and large ones?  

It should be so simple with a 0-5 scoring system.  But then, again, everyone needs to understand that throwing out 5's to half the entries doesn't help, and doesn't make sense.

Kev thinks I pick on him for bringing him up alot, but I don't mean it in a bad way, but I'm going to do it again now, because I think it's a perfect example.

Kev says over and over that it's very unlikely anyone here is going to put together a truly great script in 72 hours (or 3 or 4, as it usually turns out).  And he's right.  Some are much better than others, but none are perfect, and only a few are even good.  Scores of 5 should rarely be awarded, whether it's an overall score or a category score.

I mean, c'mon, let's face it and be honest....there are alot of very poor entries in round 2.  There's just no way around that, yet, we see the same peeps routinely, over and over gush out praise to scripts that are a 2 out of 5 at best.  I honestly don't get it.

Then, we have others saying that they didn't get it at all, it's a mess, but they really like it.  Huh?  How does that even work?

How in the world can peeps get away with purposely lowering or increasing scores, for their own betterment?  I say Sean posts the actual scores each round from each voter, so we see who the cheats are.  That way, they'd be hard pressed to continue doing it, round after round, knowing their gig is up and everyone knows what they're doing.

Harsh?  Life is harsh.  And, didn't you have a cheater in this last year, who was never named?  Someone trying to increase their scores by creating phantom accounts or something?  I bet whoever that cheater was, they're doing everything they can to better their scores again this year.  Once a cheat, always a cheat.


It's a good idea to show the scores. Although some disparity is to be expected, it will still be very interesting cross-analysing who voted how and for what. Probably not everybody's idea of fun.
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Gary in Houston
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Quoted from DustinBowcot


It's a good idea to show the scores. Although some disparity is to be expected, it will still be very interesting cross-analysing who voted how and for what. Probably not everybody's idea of fun.


Boy, you think thereís backbiting and anger between writers on this board now, wait until Jeff finds out Warren gave him a 2 for story or dialogue.

I think you wind up with the undesired effect of scripts being rated way too highly because there are some people who just donít like confrontation and donít want to create difficult feelings with another writer.  I try to stay clear of fire around here, and would likely continue to do so, but Iím not going to stand for people always sniping at me because they thought I was being unfair with their grading.

Just my two cents, as always.


An utterly mediocre writer who somehow still falls bass ackwards into getting some of his scripts produced.
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Dreamscale
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Quoted from Matthew Taylor
Why wouldn't it work? I'm not arguing by the way, I'm just curious. Who would be unable to simply list the entries in order from their favourite to least favourite?


Well, as I said, these reads take place over a 7-10 day period.  Many of the reads are "fast".  Peeps have all sorts of things going on in their lives.  You really think you could  put 20 scripts in order, taking the above into account?  I sure couldn't.

I could tell you the best few and the worst few, but dolling out points in between is totally up in the air.


Quoted from Matthew Taylor
Does this not contradict your argument about the difference in top and bottom scores being too low? if we don't use the two extremes in the scoring (I.E 5's and 1's) then won't that result in scores bunching together somewhere in the middle?

Whereas, if we score the entries only against each other, the end result will be a much larger score gap between top and bottom spot


No, not at all.  In any "set" of anything that are produced randomly, by completely different people, of completely different degrees of talent, there should be some sort of "bell curve", in terms of quality or whatever you want to call it.

This means (taking into account a 5 point scoring system of 1-5) that you should have some below 2.0 and some above 4.0, and based on the "set" of peeps we have, who all have different ideas on how they score, in reality, you should have some at 1.0, and  some near 5.0,

The differential between high and low should be over a 3.0 point differential.


Quoted from Matthew Taylor
Did someone actually do that? That's the saddest thing I have heard in a while lol


I didn't partake last year, but there was quite a bit of buzz over it with some peeps calling for a public lynching and others saying no big deal.

It was a big deal, though.

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Dreamscale
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Quoted from Gary in Houston
Boy, you think thereís backbiting and anger between writers on this board now, wait until Jeff finds out Warren gave him a 2 for story or dialogue.

I think you wind up with the undesired effect of scripts being rated way too highly because there are some people who just donít like confrontation and donít want to create difficult feelings with another writer.  I try to stay clear of fire around here, and would likely continue to do so, but Iím not going to stand for people always sniping at me because they thought I was being unfair with their grading.

Just my two cents, as always.


My bet is that Warren definitely purposely rates up or down when he knows the writer, based on whether he's in love with that person, or hates them.

I also bet that several peeps involved here share which one is theirs with a certain circle, in hopes of getting better scores from them.  

I honestly do.  I've seen it before in OWC's.  In fact, I saw a post from someone giving glowing praise to a script, and then, 20 minutes later, the post was deleted, and it was all very negative, because someone told this person who had written the script, and they wanted to trash anything and everything this person wrote.

It was quite funny, but very sad, too.

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Quoted from Gary in Houston


Boy, you think thereís backbiting and anger between writers on this board now, wait until Jeff finds out Warren gave him a 2 for story or dialogue.

I think you wind up with the undesired effect of scripts being rated way too highly because there are some people who just donít like confrontation and donít want to create difficult feelings with another writer.  I try to stay clear of fire around here, and would likely continue to do so, but Iím not going to stand for people always sniping at me because they thought I was being unfair with their grading.

Just my two cents, as always.

Yeah, exactly.

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ReneC
Posted: June 14th, 2019, 11:10am Report to Moderator
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Quoted from Dreamscale
It should be so simple with a 0-5 scoring system.  But then, again, everyone needs to understand that throwing out 5's to half the entries doesn't help, and doesn't make sense.

Kev says over and over that it's very unlikely anyone here is going to put together a truly great script in 72 hours (or 3 or 4, as it usually turns out).  And he's right.  Some are much better than others, but none are perfect, and only a few are even good.  Scores of 5 should rarely be awarded, whether it's an overall score or a category score.

I mean, c'mon, let's face it and be honest....there are alot of very poor entries in round 2.  There's just no way around that, yet, we see the same peeps routinely, over and over gush out praise to scripts that are a 2 out of 5 at best.  I honestly don't get it.


What are your expectations? That an OWC or one of these 72 hour entries is going to compare to a fully polished professional script?

If you only give scores of 1-4, or worse 1-3, all you're doing is narrowing the spread even further. There is very little difference in score between the best and worst script.


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Zack
Posted: June 14th, 2019, 11:17am Report to Moderator
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Quoted from Dreamscale


I honestly do.  I've seen it before in OWC's.  In fact, I saw a post from someone giving glowing praise to a script, and then, 20 minutes later, the post was deleted, and it was all very negative, because someone told this person who had written the script, and they wanted to trash anything and everything this person wrote.

It was quite funny, but very sad, too.



This has actually happened to me. I won't name names... But I saw it. The original review was quite positive, then the review was deleted a redone like an hour later and it was brutally negative. Lol. Just petty.


An example of my writing...

FOR SATAN - short, horror, 14 pgs (revised draft) - A group of thrill-seekers explore a creepy old house on Halloween night. Think you know this story? Think again.
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khamanna
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I was checking out Nichol's yesterday and stumbled upon their criteria.
Voice and Magic - we have dialog instead. The rest is the same - they have craft for the prose, which is essentially the same thing perhaps. Actually dialog and prose together qualifies as craft.
I like their criteria though. Don't get exactly what Voice means. Consistency perhaps.
But Magic is a good one.
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AnthonyCawood
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We're a bunch of amateur writers undertaking a challenge with no entry fee and no prize attached.

If anyone is sad enough to go to the lengths as described in some of the above posts then the simplest solution is to get rid of the scoring entirely.

If there is some great need for a 'winner' then let Don or whoever is running the challenge pick one on whatever basis they see fit.

We're sure as hell never going to get consensus.


Anthony Cawood - Award winning screenwriter
Available Short screenplays - http://www.anthonycawood.co.uk/short-scripts
Available Feature screenplays - http://www.anthonycawood.co.uk/feature-film-scripts/
Screenwriting articles - http://www.anthonycawood.co.uk/articles
IMDB Link - http://www.imdb.com/name/nm6495672/?ref_=fn_al_nm_1
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Dreamscale
Posted: June 14th, 2019, 11:31am Report to Moderator
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Quoted from ReneC
  What are your expectations? That an OWC or one of these 72 hour entries is going to compare to a fully polished professional script?


No, not at all, which is what I've said multiple times.

But, let's understand, we're not talking about "fully polished professional scripts".  That has nothing to do with it.  A script should stand by itself for what it is, how it's written, how it looks, how it flows, etc.

And, the bottom line is that very few of these will be 4's and 5's...BUT...


Quoted from ReneC
If you only give scores of 1-4, or worse 1-3, all you're doing is narrowing the spread even further. There is very little difference in score between the best and worst script.


A difference of 3 points on a 5 point scale is actually alot.  The max is 4 points, so c'mon, man, do the simple math.

The point, however, is that 1 or a few will be heads and shoulders above the very worst.  In Round 1, based on the fucked up scoring and actual grading by the peeps, didn't turn out that way, which proves the flaw.

I think the problem here is that many, like Warren, just don't understand numbers and how they work.

A score of 5 vs. a score of 4, is not merely a 1 point differential.  You need to divide to see the real difference.  Obviously the same with a score of 4 vs. 1.  HUGE differentials!!

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Mr. Blonde
Posted: June 14th, 2019, 11:34am Report to Moderator
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Quoted from Dreamscale
It should be so simple with a 0-5 scoring system.  But then, again, everyone needs to understand that throwing out 5's to half the entries doesn't help, and doesn't make sense.

Kev says over and over that it's very unlikely anyone here is going to put together a truly great script in 72 hours (or 3 or 4, as it usually turns out).  And he's right.  Some are much better than others, but none are perfect, and only a few are even good.  Scores of 5 should rarely be awarded, whether it's an overall score or a category score.

I mean, c'mon, let's face it and be honest....there are alot of very poor entries in round 2.  There's just no way around that, yet, we see the same peeps routinely, over and over gush out praise to scripts that are a 2 out of 5 at best.  I honestly don't get it.

How in the world can peeps get away with purposely lowering or increasing scores, for their own betterment?  I say Sean posts the actual scores each round from each voter, so we see who the cheats are.  That way, they'd be hard pressed to continue doing it, round after round, knowing their gig is up and everyone knows what they're doing.

Harsh?  Life is harsh.  And, didn't you have a cheater in this last year, who was never named?  Someone trying to increase their scores by creating phantom accounts or something?  I bet whoever that cheater was, they're doing everything they can to better their scores again this year.  Once a cheat, always a cheat.


Actually, Jeff, both Don and I have individualized our scoring sheets (his has a more professional look than mine, but what can you do?) and in the case of nearly every reviewer AND every script, more 1s were handed out than 5s.

Here's my big issue with what you're saying, Jeff. It's a problem I come across every time I run one of these contests and it gets a bit irritating. See, you believe 5s are rare and that's fine, because you review the way you do, just like everyone does. But, I don't think enough credit is given to the idea that you only have a maximum of three days (remember, it was originally going to be two) to write a script in a genre you may not be well-versed in, using props and locations that don't fit easily together. In my personal opinion, if I were reviewing, I'd be a bit more lenient and understanding that it's a miracle these scripts came out as well as they did. Like I said, everyone reviews in their own way. You shouldn't chastise people who are lenient, just like they shouldn't chastise you for being strict.

If you're going to make a claim that people are intentionally trying to skew the scoring, Jeff, PM me about it and we'll talk about it. But, you can't just make a claim like that without any proof of it. I take things like that very personally, because these scores were gone through by both Don and I (he may or may not have done this on his end. I'm not certain) and there is no evidence of vote tampering. In actual fact, I was surprised by how much in agreement people were with their votes, on average. Now, in regards to posting the scores, no. It's not happening. As I said in the round 1 thread, there are two reasons I'm doing it. One is a personal reason of my own. The second, though, is because we have reviewers who recognize other people's writing styles. I want to dis-incentivize cheating in all forms. Period. I won't discuss the topic of making the scores public during the tournament again.

That's right. There was a caught cheater last year whom we never named. Their inflated score didn't change the scores in the round they were able to do it in. What's your point?


Quoted from Dreamscale
My bet is that Warren definitely purposely rates up or down when he knows the writer, based on whether he's in love with that person, or hates them.


Jeff, you're making accusations of cheating out of thin air. Seriously, what are you doing?


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Dreamscale
Posted: June 14th, 2019, 11:35am Report to Moderator
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Quoted from AnthonyCawood
If anyone is sad enough to go to the lengths as described in some of the above posts then the simplest solution is to get rid of the scoring entirely.


What are you referring to, Anthony?  What lengths?  Cheating?

If that's what you're talking about, you know damn well it has happened and happens probably more frequently than you realize.

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AnthonyCawood
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Yes, Jeff, cheating and/or getting your SS mates to read it to try and influence scoring.

I'm aware of the incident last year, but I've no idea if the issues you describe are widespread.

Widespread or not, my solution would make it pointless!


Anthony Cawood - Award winning screenwriter
Available Short screenplays - http://www.anthonycawood.co.uk/short-scripts
Available Feature screenplays - http://www.anthonycawood.co.uk/feature-film-scripts/
Screenwriting articles - http://www.anthonycawood.co.uk/articles
IMDB Link - http://www.imdb.com/name/nm6495672/?ref_=fn_al_nm_1
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jayrex
Posted: June 14th, 2019, 11:47am Report to Moderator
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Cut to three weeks earlier

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If you take any of these scripts, any one that you would vote a 5, and changed the timescale from 72hours to 365 days, would you still vote a 5?

31 days, would you still vote a 5?

1 week?

72 hours?

You got to put everything in perspective.

Can you really be harsh on anyone for submitting their entry of 72hours?  Many people created their entry last minute.


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Dreamscale
Posted: June 14th, 2019, 12:13pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from Mr. Blonde

Jeff, you're making accusations of cheating out of thin air. Seriously, what are you doing?


I was just messing around, as peeps have been messing around with me.  That's all.

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DustinBowcot
Posted: June 14th, 2019, 12:16pm Report to Moderator
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Who was the writer who made multiple accounts? You have to credit their desire to win that mug.
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Mr. Blonde
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Quoted from Dreamscale
I was just messing around, as peeps have been messing around with me.  That's all.


Okay. Fair enough. But, you're right. There has been way too much of that going on thus far (on both sides). It's getting kind of old.


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DustinBowcot
Posted: June 14th, 2019, 12:16pm Report to Moderator
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Is there a mug?
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Mr. Blonde
Posted: June 14th, 2019, 12:18pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from DustinBowcot
Is there a mug?


Not to my knowledge.


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DustinBowcot
Posted: June 14th, 2019, 12:20pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from Mr. Blonde


Not to my knowledge.


I could understand the mug. To some that will be worth cheating for. Cheating just to win is pointless.
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Matthew Taylor
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Quoted from Mr. Blonde


Not to my knowledge.


Da fuq? I already made a space for it in my cupboard...


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FrankM
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Quoted from Matthew Taylor
Da fuq? I already made a space for it in my cupboard...


If the leaderboard stays how it is now, Don might break into my apartment and give my mug to you


Feature-length scripts:
Who Wants to Be a Princess? (Family)
Glass House (Horror anthology)

TV pilots:
"Kord" (Fantasy)
"Mal Suerte" (Superhero)

Additional scripts are listed here.
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Dreamscale
Posted: June 14th, 2019, 1:07pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from DustinBowcot
Is there a mug?


I think it's a white Speedo bathing suit this time around - size Medium.
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Zack
Posted: June 14th, 2019, 1:17pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from Dreamscale


I think it's a white Speedo bathing suit this time around - size Medium.


Gonna have to step my game up then. I need that white speedo!!!


An example of my writing...

FOR SATAN - short, horror, 14 pgs (revised draft) - A group of thrill-seekers explore a creepy old house on Halloween night. Think you know this story? Think again.
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leitskev
Posted: June 14th, 2019, 1:32pm Report to Moderator
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If I remember correct, I gave out no 5's. I gave two 1's, both on story. I think I only listed 3 as not meeting the requirement. I shared no reads or information with anyone. I knew none of the writers, except Jeff's was easy to spot a mile away. I even gave that one some credit  because it seemed to me the writer was just trying to keep his skin in the game.

My ranking did not match too well with the ranking that came out. Tucker and Dale and the Package came out on top on my list. Just Stop was my favorite, but scored a point lower because of criteria.

So it went:
Tucker and Dale 15
Package 15
Just Stop 14
I'm Being Watched 14
Head Case 14

Scores of five were reserved for a script that hit it out of the park. None came close to that.

Looking at my list, I gave one 4, for prose in Melt, a script that didn't score that high otherwise for me because I thought it was way over the top.


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Zack
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Quoted from leitskev


My ranking did not match too well with the ranking that came out. Tucker and Dale and the Package came out on top on my list. Just Stop was my favorite, but scored a point lower because of criteria.

So it went:
Tucker and Dale 15
Package 15
Just Stop 14
I'm Being Watched 14
Head Case 14

Scores of five were reserved for a script that hit it out of the park. None came close to that.



Hell yeah! Thanks, Kevin! That counts as a huge win for me. You just made my day.

Seems like most people didn't really dig it. I really like what I was able to fit into 5 pages. First draft was much longer. It's definitely something I plan on coming back to for a rewrite, after the tournament is over, of course.


An example of my writing...

FOR SATAN - short, horror, 14 pgs (revised draft) - A group of thrill-seekers explore a creepy old house on Halloween night. Think you know this story? Think again.
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leitskev
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If the package and the robbers had not just conveniently arrived on the same day it would have done even better. Also, the main character needed development. Drinking scotch didn't really connect to anything relevant.

In kind of thought it was going to go down like this: One of the shrink's grateful patients had a premonition his doctor was going to be attacked by thieves. So he sent the monster bobblehead to protect him. The bobblehead attacks the thieves when they enter the house.

Maybe the shrink could be fleshed out in his only interactive scene, the opening with the patient.
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Zack
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Quoted from leitskev
If the package and the robbers had not just conveniently arrived on the same day it would have done even better. Also, the main character needed development. Drinking scotch didn't really connect to anything relevant.

In kind of thought it was going to go down like this: One of the shrink's grateful patients had a premonition his doctor was going to be attacked by thieves. So he sent the monster bobblehead to protect him. The bobblehead attacks the thieves when they enter the house.

Maybe the shrink could be fleshed out in his only interactive scene, the opening with the patient.


Originally The Package was gonna be a twist on the classic Trilogy of Terror segment "He Who Kills". I was even gonna title it "He Who Bobbles". The Bobble-head doll actually came alive and chased D.r Goodman around the house for a bit. The sequence with the two thief's was much longer as well.

I completely agree about the characters being under-developed. I really struggle with this aspect. Need to read some books or something, cut I just can't seem to get the hang of it.

I do like your idea about the patient having a premonition and trying to help Dr. Goodman. I may PM you after the tournament is over, if you don't mind.


An example of my writing...

FOR SATAN - short, horror, 14 pgs (revised draft) - A group of thrill-seekers explore a creepy old house on Halloween night. Think you know this story? Think again.
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leitskev
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Sure, can PM any time.

I've never heard of those films. I really don't have an extensive film awareness. That's why I pay attention when Rick talks films.

As far as character development, we all struggle with that. But one thing to consider is this: if you wrote a feature, and really spent time with that character every day, he would start to flesh out during the writing. Often what fleshes him out is the choices he makes when confronting situations. In fact, often you really don't know your character until he goes through that.

Then what happens is this: when you sit down to do the second draft you have a much better sense of the character, so you make him much more dimensional. Sometimes the character ends up very different than the way you first imagined him.

But in a 5 page challenge there's no way to do that. Let's say you were writing a 5 page challenge for a simplyscripts mug filled with gold. And you had a month. How could you flesh him out? One way could be to put him in situations that would never be in the script and just see what he does. For example, let's take your shrink. What do we know about him? He lives my himself and drinks scotch by himself as soon as the last client leaves. Is he divorced? A widower?

But instead of filling out the answers to those questions like a checklist, throw him into a situation and see what he does. Maybe the answers become clear.

Example: throw him into a bar. He's sitting at the bar by himself drinking scotch. He knows the bartender by name. He knows a couple of the other customers at the bar by name. Does he buy a round for folks? An attractive woman comes in and sits next to him. Is he shy? Maybe she talks a little with the bartender and he overhears she has a problem that he might be able to help with. He tries. Makes a half connection. But then she pulls a gun on the bartender and demands the cash. What does the shrink do? Maybe this gives us clues about who he is.

As you get better at doing these kind of exercises, eventually you can just think them out in your head.

The problem most writers have, myself included, is how to give the OTHER characters, the supporting cast, depth.
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Scar Tissue Films
Posted: June 14th, 2019, 4:10pm Report to Moderator
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A good way to get a bit of depth with very minor characters is to use a stock character, to make them look unique, and to give them a distinctive voice.

A Stock Character is a character who is instantly recognizable to us from other stories; the gruff grandpa, the snooty cheerleader, the bratty younger sibling etc. You can find good lists online. You can, of course, subvert the stereotype as well, but their presence gives a feeling of familiarity built up over centuries that fills the minor characters out just enough where development isn't possible.


Also remember that, as in real life, everyone thinks they are at the centre of the story. That all the events are about them, no matter how minor a figure they are.
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Zack
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Quoted from leitskev
Sure, can PM any time.

I've never heard of those films. I really don't have an extensive film awareness. That's why I pay attention when Rick talks films.

As far as character development, we all struggle with that. But one thing to consider is this: if you wrote a feature, and really spent time with that character every day, he would start to flesh out during the writing. Often what fleshes him out is the choices he makes when confronting situations. In fact, often you really don't know your character until he goes through that.

Then what happens is this: when you sit down to do the second draft you have a much better sense of the character, so you make him much more dimensional. Sometimes the character ends up very different than the way you first imagined him.

But in a 5 page challenge there's no way to do that. Let's say you were writing a 5 page challenge for a simplyscripts mug filled with gold. And you had a month. How could you flesh him out? One way could be to put him in situations that would never be in the script and just see what he does. For example, let's take your shrink. What do we know about him? He lives my himself and drinks scotch by himself as soon as the last client leaves. Is he divorced? A widower?

But instead of filling out the answers to those questions like a checklist, throw him into a situation and see what he does. Maybe the answers become clear.

Example: throw him into a bar. He's sitting at the bar by himself drinking scotch. He knows the bartender by name. He knows a couple of the other customers at the bar by name. Does he buy a round for folks? An attractive woman comes in and sits next to him. Is he shy? Maybe she talks a little with the bartender and he overhears she has a problem that he might be able to help with. He tries. Makes a half connection. But then she pulls a gun on the bartender and demands the cash. What does the shrink do? Maybe this gives us clues about who he is.

As you get better at doing these kind of exercises, eventually you can just think them out in your head.

The problem most writers have, myself included, is how to give the OTHER characters, the supporting cast, depth.


Awesome advice, Dude. Seriously, much appreciated.  I'm definitely gonna try this out for round 3.


An example of my writing...

FOR SATAN - short, horror, 14 pgs (revised draft) - A group of thrill-seekers explore a creepy old house on Halloween night. Think you know this story? Think again.
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Don
Posted: June 18th, 2019, 10:40pm Report to Moderator
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So, what are you writing?

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Round 2 Tentative Scores.  

Don

P.S. Pending final approval by Sean.


Visit SimplyScripts.com for what is new on the site.

-------------
You will miss 100% of the shots you don't take.
- Wayne Gretzky
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leitskev
Posted: June 18th, 2019, 10:46pm Report to Moderator
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What! I finished behind Jeff? Someone talk me off the ledge!

Just teasing. Good job folks.
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Dreamscale
Posted: June 18th, 2019, 10:46pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from Don
Round 2 Tentative Scores.  

Don

P.S. Pending final approval by Sean.

I don't see any new standings, but I am dumb...and a bit schlammied!!

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Zack
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Quoted from Dreamscale

I don't see any new standings, but I am dumb...and a bit schlammied!!



Look at the first post on this thread.


An example of my writing...

FOR SATAN - short, horror, 14 pgs (revised draft) - A group of thrill-seekers explore a creepy old house on Halloween night. Think you know this story? Think again.
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leitskev
Posted: June 18th, 2019, 10:47pm Report to Moderator
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See? And I finished behind this guy? Lol.
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Zack
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Congrats on first place, Warren! And congrats everyone else who got something in for round 2.

Comedy isn't my genre of choice, but I had a ton of fun writing my script. Glad some of you thought it was funny.


An example of my writing...

FOR SATAN - short, horror, 14 pgs (revised draft) - A group of thrill-seekers explore a creepy old house on Halloween night. Think you know this story? Think again.
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Dreamscale
Posted: June 18th, 2019, 10:51pm Report to Moderator
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My script finished in 9th place for week2?

Really?  Oh fuck, oh man, oh Jeez.

I am just playing in the wrong sandbox.

There were 2 obvious best scripts here - Rats of a Feahter and Underneath the Streets of New York.

This is complete blasphemy.  Glad I'm out.  Best of luck to the winners here!
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leitskev
Posted: June 18th, 2019, 10:57pm Report to Moderator
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3 scripts I didn't have time to get to. Under the Streets was one. Sorry.

Rats of a Feather did finish second on my list.

Rat Pack finished one.
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ReneC
Posted: June 18th, 2019, 10:59pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from Dreamscale
My script finished in 9th place for week2?

Really?  Oh fuck, oh man, oh Jeez.

I am just playing in the wrong sandbox.

There were 2 obvious best scripts here - Rats of a Feahter and Underneath the Streets of New York.

This is complete blasphemy.  Glad I'm out.  Best of luck to the winners here!


I had Underneath the Streets of New York as my number 3, Jeff. Kudos. Sorry the standings didn't agree.

I'm actually really surprised this round. My number one did win, but after that it's like opposite land.



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ReneC
Posted: June 18th, 2019, 11:19pm Report to Moderator
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Congrats, Warren. You're the one to beat so far.

And look at who decided to crash the party in second! Way to make an entrance, Libby!

Rick is still going strong, another one to beat.

Now I'm dying to know who wrote the round 3 scripts...


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stevie
Posted: June 18th, 2019, 11:28pm Report to Moderator
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Lib, yours was the only one that made me laugh a little    So good work.



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LC
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Wow.  Wasn't expecting that.
Thanks, Stevie
And thanks, Rene.
Honestly, bit of a surprise, but I'm thrilled.

And congrats, Warren and Rick. Two of my all time favs.
I really liked Rats too (Gary).



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Scar Tissue Films
Posted: June 18th, 2019, 11:52pm Report to Moderator
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Congrats, Warren and Libby.

Well done all.
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Dreamscale
Posted: June 19th, 2019, 12:03am Report to Moderator
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Congrats to Warren and a very good script.  The others that placed in the top 8, far from good, and shocking where you placed.

Special SHOUT OUT to Henb, for a very hilarious pissfest.  I just hope it was intended to be a pisser, but no reason in the world that script comes in at the bottom.  Top 5 for sure, based on what it was up against.

I smell a few rats, and I'm almost completely positive about that.  You rats know who you are, and I have a sneaky suspicion you rats will somehow keep coming up "roses".

Finally, "END OF RANT", but yeah, as Warren has said for months, do not listen to my feedback, as it obviously is way off the mark, based on what you peeps like.  I'm literally shocked and appalled at every top 5 other than my good friend Warren's.

Word out...
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Scar Tissue Films
Posted: June 19th, 2019, 12:22am Report to Moderator
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Jeff, you wrote an unfunny story about a meal.

It's where it should be. Well away from the forum heavyweights.

If you need any advice on how to write, don't hesitate to ask us. We're always happy to help our inferiors.


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Dreamscale
Posted: June 19th, 2019, 12:43am Report to Moderator
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Quoted from Scar Tissue Films
Jeff, you wrote an unfunny story about a meal.

It's where it should be. Well away from the forum heavyweights.

If you need any advice on how to write, don't hesitate to ask us. We're always happy to help our inferiors.


Thanks, Rick, I appreciate the feedback and offer.

And I do also appreciate the humor...the forum heavyweights.  Yeah.  Other than Warren's, their ain't no heavyweights showing up in the upper echelon.

And as I'll say again, if you peeps really think those scripts are solid entries, more power to the peeps!  Unreal...literally unreal.

RATS!!!  They're everywhere...again!  ARGH!!!

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Scar Tissue Films
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Mine was exceptional, but it was only for clever people

That's the price you pay for genius, you leave the mundane behind.
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LC
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Quoted from Dreamscale
...I smell a few rats, and I'm almost completely positive about that.  You rats know who you are, and I have a sneaky suspicion you rats will somehow keep coming up "roses"...

  

Thanks Jeff, I almost felt a scintilla of (what will be short-lived ) joy ebb away, but then nope... it didn't work!  

Hey, if it's any consolation my third round effort is not faring so well.



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PrussianMosby
Posted: June 19th, 2019, 1:13am Report to Moderator
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Quoted from Scar Tissue Films
Mine was exceptional


hmm, Richard, you gave 7 comments on your own scripts so far.

You're not the only one who acts like that though. Clearly.

I guess some are even deleting their traces afterwards, so good that you at least don't do so .  

Somehow I hope this general problem can be fixed one time but there seems to be no true will or concept yet. Then there are a few people, more taken back and passive screenwriters, who wouldn't ever act like that who I think, also see those interactions with the 'own'-readers as a problem. Well, just the ugliest side of these challenges, leading to a kind of vicarious embarrassment.  



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Scar Tissue Films
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Quoted from PrussianMosby


hmm, Richard, you gave 7 comments on your own scripts so far.

You're not the only one who acts like that though. Clearly.

I guess some are even deleting their traces afterwards, so good that you at least don't do so .  

Somehow I hope this general problem can be fixed one time but there seems to be no true will or concept yet. Then there are a few people, more taken back and passive screenwriters, who I think, also see those interactions with the 'own'-readers as a problem. Well, just the ugliest side of these challenges, leading to a kind of vicarious embarrassment.  


I get involved in discussions on numerous threads. That's my favourite part.
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Scar Tissue Films
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But anyway, Alex... Noted. I didn't know that was a 'thing'. So I won't respond to anything from now on.
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DustinBowcot
Posted: June 19th, 2019, 1:48am Report to Moderator
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Quoted from Dreamscale


I smell a few rats, and I'm almost completely positive about that.  You rats know who you are, and I have a sneaky suspicion you rats will somehow keep coming up "roses".



They're in almost every OWC. Certain writers here communicate through FB and Skype meetings. You can tell from certain reviews.

I have to say though, that I don't think Libby is one of them. I'm just saying that because of 'roses' being placed in inverted commas looks like a nod toward Libby.
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DustinBowcot
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Quoted from Scar Tissue Films
But anyway, Alex... Noted. I didn't know that was a 'thing'. So I won't respond to anything from now on.


It's clearly only a thing to Alex.

If anyone else is bothered then we should all stop responding and just allow conversation to die.
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Matthew Taylor
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Well done Warren - you absolutely smashed it - Rats of a Feather topped my list.
Also well done to LC, Scar, PK, Rene - Nicely done guys. Actually, well done to everyone - some seriously talented writers around here.

Philostrate - as you can tell from my review, I bloody loved yours as well lol

Too much negativity in this tournament now though, accusations being thrown around at everyone, bitchin' that writers are not in the right "place" in the standings. No wonder so few newbies join in, who from the outside would see that and think "yeah i want a piece of that"?
It's not fun anymore so round 3 is the last one for me.

Thanks Don and Mr Blonde for putting this on - Really gave me a chance to stretch my creative legs and try some new stuff

Good luck to you all - from the sounds of it, the next couple of rounds are going to be tough.



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DustinBowcot
Posted: June 19th, 2019, 3:33am Report to Moderator
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There's only really Jeff complaining and he's out anyway.

But this is tough. Too much for me to do. I'm writing non stop anyway - aside from when I'm here annoying you guys with my often insane ramblings. Competing in this contest would drive me actually mad.

I know you guys work too, so it's the same thing. No shame in bowing out. This is like an iron man race for writers.

Warren just seems unfazed by it all. Must be his army training. He could go another ten rounds.
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Scar Tissue Films
Posted: June 19th, 2019, 5:37am Report to Moderator
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All stories are subjective and comedy is the most subjective genre of all.

There are many qualities in all the scripts, and problems with them all as well.

It was a much stronger and more varied round than I expected.
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JEStaats
Posted: June 19th, 2019, 10:23am Report to Moderator
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No sh*t, there I was....

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Quoted from leitskev
3 scripts I didn't have time to get to. Under the Streets was one. Sorry.

Rats of a Feather did finish second on my list.

Rat Pack finished one.


I've no complaints on win/place/show, they were all my top picks so CONGRATS!

Kev - Thanks for the shout-out, brother! Also for taking the second read of 'The Doc is Out' from round one. Appreciate it.
~John
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JEStaats
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No sh*t, there I was....

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Quoted from Zack

Comedy isn't my genre of choice, but I had a ton of fun writing my script. Glad some of you thought it was funny.


Zack - BTW, I seriously thought yours hilarious. I don't know if it was the rum or the late night read but it hit me right where I needed it. I knew it was yours, too. Easy guess, dude!

John
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Zack
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Quoted from JEStaats


Zack - BTW, I seriously thought yours hilarious. I don't know if it was the rum or the late night read but it hit me right where I needed it. I knew it was yours, too. Easy guess, dude!

John


Thanks, Dude! Happy you enjoyed it so much. Glad I'm not the only one who thinks this kinda shit is funny.

I have a bad habit of putting myself into my stories. That might have something to do with my scripts being so easy to spot. I will be rectifying this with the final 2 rounds.


An example of my writing...

FOR SATAN - short, horror, 14 pgs (revised draft) - A group of thrill-seekers explore a creepy old house on Halloween night. Think you know this story? Think again.
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DustinBowcot
Posted: June 19th, 2019, 11:20am Report to Moderator
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Quoted from Zack


I have a bad habit of putting myself into my stories.


Never had you down as a transvestite.
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Zack
Posted: June 19th, 2019, 11:26am Report to Moderator
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Quoted from DustinBowcot


Never had you down as a transvestite.


I'm just full of surprises.


An example of my writing...

FOR SATAN - short, horror, 14 pgs (revised draft) - A group of thrill-seekers explore a creepy old house on Halloween night. Think you know this story? Think again.
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eldave1
Posted: June 19th, 2019, 11:41am Report to Moderator
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Just got back to this thread. First, congrats to all those soldiering on an special congrats to the top placements. This is an iron man/woman  contest and I salute all those making the effort.

But the whining and allegations of mis-scoring/cheating etc. is getting old fast. It I ran this site it would probably be the last OWC.

I've been in more than a dozen of these and NEVER EVER have I see an undeserving script finish at the top. Sure, there have been times I would have changed the order of the top three - but a deserving script always took down the challenge. AND - it is okay and perfectly natural for some folks to think one script is a stinker and for someone else to love it. Stop the whining because something you hated someone else liked and vice versa. Call it the Roma principle. Nominated for best screenplay. I read it - I'd give it a 1. Obviously some people gave it a 5.

And there is a strategy to winning these things that you need to follow if you are going to place well.  If you don't employ a strategy - don't whine about the results.  Jeff - I'm going to use you as an example since you've  expressed great angst about your placements in the first two rounds. e.g:


Quoted Text
My script finished in 9th place for week2?

Really?  Oh fuck, oh man, oh Jeez.

I am just playing in the wrong sandbox.

There were 2 obvious best scripts here - Rats of a Feahter and Underneath the Streets of New York.

This is complete blasphemy.  Glad I'm out.  Best of luck to the winners here


Jeff, you are in the wrong sandbox.  Assuming your two scripts were perfect - which they were not - they never had a chance because you employed a less than optimal strategy for an OWC.

Your Bobble-head entry - Dead on arrival. You have a Japanese woman, speaking in broken English, dressed like a hooker, discussing how she would never tolerate the insertion of a Eli Manning bobble-head doll into her XXX or XXX. Although she'd consider A-Rod.

Even if Aaron Sorkin wrote the rest, that script was doomed right there because it's going to offend several people. Sure - some will be find with it. But too many won't and your score will plummet. You are not writing for yourself - you're writing for an audience of 20 to 30 people.  And don't get me wrong - write whatever you want, as extreme as you want. Just don't be surprised when the extreme doesn't hit the target audience in an OWC.  

Your references are generally too narrow or dated. Here you went with American athletes.  Only some will get it. i.e., think how much broader the understanding is if you substitute Eli and A-rod with Ben Allfeck and Matt Damon.  

Finally, in this script you introduced an entirely unnecessary character (Monty) in the second part of the script. In a short - especially a five pager - clarity and simplicity are sound strategies.

Your second script. I thought - hmm - nicely done.  May have been a top five for me (can't say since I read so few) - but well written with a strategic flaw. Two way many characters (11) to digest in a five pager. Again, clarity and simplicity is king.  Had you narrowed it down to maybe half the characters you could have finished top three.

If you truly want to do better in these, be more strategic - widest appeal, simple as possible. If you just want to write what you want to write - cool. But don't whine when it doesn't land.

Anyway - Long-winded way of saying if those who are whining want to turn this from fun to work - keep it up. You may just literally choke the life out of it.  

Rant over.





My Scripts can all be seen here:

http://dlambertson.wix.com/scripts

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jayrex
Posted: June 19th, 2019, 11:50am Report to Moderator
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Cut to three weeks earlier

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I understand why I never did well in round one, there's no horror to be found.  I'm surprised I didn't finish bottom.  I just submitted for the heck of it. And I took a massive gamble on my 2nd effort but of course it doesn't work if you haven't see those TV shows.  I am where I am because of my gambles.  And I'm not fussed either.

My favourite finished 3rd.  We're not all on the same wavelength, but we're close.


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PKCardinal
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Quoted from Matthew Taylor


Too much negativity in this tournament now though, accusations being thrown around at everyone, bitchin' that writers are not in the right "place" in the standings. No wonder so few newbies join in, who from the outside would see that and think "yeah i want a piece of that"?
It's not fun anymore so round 3 is the last one for me.



That really bothers me.

You've been awesome this tourney. I hope you reconsider. Maybe just don't read these threads and do your thing. Write a script that makes you happy and leave the rest behind...

We can't lose the good ones.


PaulKWrites.com

60 Feet Under - Low budget, contained thriller/Feature
The Hand of God - Low budget, semi-contained thriller/Feature
Wait Till Next Year - Disney-style family sports comedy/Feature

Many shorts available for production: comedy, thriller, drama, light horror
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Zack
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Don't get it right. Get it written.

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I didn't realize so many people were getting upset. If someone in a thread is upsetting you, just ignore them. Don't let them ruin your experience here.


An example of my writing...

FOR SATAN - short, horror, 14 pgs (revised draft) - A group of thrill-seekers explore a creepy old house on Halloween night. Think you know this story? Think again.
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Gary in Houston
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Ditto to both Dave and Paulís comments.


An utterly mediocre writer who somehow still falls bass ackwards into getting some of his scripts produced.
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eldave1
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Quoted from Dreamscale


Special SHOUT OUT to Henb, for a very hilarious pissfest.  I just hope it was intended to be a pisser, but no reason in the world that script comes in at the bottom.  Top 5 for sure, based on what it was up against.

Word out...


I did not like that script at all. Would have given it poor ratings. Re-enforces my point - what some see as 5s, others can see as 1.


My Scripts can all be seen here:

http://dlambertson.wix.com/scripts
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Grandma Bear
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I have not been able to keep up with all the comments in the WT. Scripts threads or otherwise. If you see a post you feel is over the line, either flag the post or pm one of the mods for swift handling of the situation.

Your friendly mod.


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DustinBowcot
Posted: June 19th, 2019, 12:12pm Report to Moderator
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I honestly thought Jeff wrote pissers because he enjoyed the negative comments... I also figured he did it because he was scared to put in a real entry. His ego can't take it when he tries and loses.

It's actually quite funny to find out that he takes himself seriously. Wow.
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eldave1
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Quoted from Grandma Bear
I have not been able to keep up with all the comments in the WT. Scripts threads or otherwise. If you see a post you feel is over the line, either flag the post or pm one of the mods for swift handling of the situation.

Your friendly mod.


Personally, haven't seen anything that is over the line. Just a lot of - ughs!


My Scripts can all be seen here:

http://dlambertson.wix.com/scripts
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PKCardinal
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I think people are most upset at the implications of cheating.

Regarding Jeff... and I really don't want to add to the negative vibe...

But, I would think that he would take offending people with pride. Isn't that what "edgy" writers are going for? I've always thought that was part of his goal. So, yes, it does surprise me to see him bothered by negative scores and people reacting harshly to his work. I'd say: "Own it as a mark of meeting your objective."

But, we're all human. (Yes, it appears even Dreamscale has feelings. Shocking, I know.)


PaulKWrites.com

60 Feet Under - Low budget, contained thriller/Feature
The Hand of God - Low budget, semi-contained thriller/Feature
Wait Till Next Year - Disney-style family sports comedy/Feature

Many shorts available for production: comedy, thriller, drama, light horror
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JEStaats
Posted: June 19th, 2019, 12:25pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from DustinBowcot


Never had you down as a transvestite.


That's funny. This is what I like to see in the forum
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DustinBowcot
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Any cheating that does go on does not affect the standings to a degree where the best script doesn't win. I'm a non-bias observer and from what I've seen the scripts that deserve to win have done. I also cannot see anyhting untoward in the rankings.

The accusation against Libby was uncalled for and not true. She/he (I think she's a husband/wife team) is an excellent writer and I don't doubt at all that she can hit the top spots.

Jeff v Libby = Libby wins... IMO. Just saying.
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Philostrate
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Quoted from Matthew Taylor
Well done Warren - you absolutely smashed it - Rats of a Feather topped my list.
Also well done to LC, Scar, PK, Rene - Nicely done guys. Actually, well done to everyone - some seriously talented writers around here.

Philostrate - as you can tell from my review, I bloody loved yours as well lol

Too much negativity in this tournament now though, accusations being thrown around at everyone, bitchin' that writers are not in the right "place" in the standings. No wonder so few newbies join in, who from the outside would see that and think "yeah i want a piece of that"?
It's not fun anymore so round 3 is the last one for me.

Thanks Don and Mr Blonde for putting this on - Really gave me a chance to stretch my creative legs and try some new stuff

Good luck to you all - from the sounds of it, the next couple of rounds are going to be tough.


Thanks, Matt. I was under the gun so the script is where it should be, but I'm glad someone liked it. Yours was really good, and you were also pressed by time, nicely done.

Like Paul and Gary, I'd like you to reconsider. Keep writing. Just for fun. So far, it's worked great.


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eldave1
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Quoted from DustinBowcot
Any cheating that does go on does not affect the standings to a degree where the best script doesn't win. I'm a non-bias observer and from what I've seen the scripts that deserve to win have done. I also cannot see anyhting untoward in the rankings.

The accusation against Libby was uncalled for and not true. She/he (I think she's a husband/wife team) is an excellent writer and I don't doubt at all that she can hit the top spots.

Jeff v Libby = Libby wins... IMO. Just saying.


Wasn't aware of an accusation.  Finally found something buried in one of Jeff's posts.


Quoted Text
I smell a few rats, and I'm almost completely positive about that.  You rats know who you are, and I have a sneaky suspicion you rats will somehow keep coming up "roses".


Jeff - I think either a clarification or an apology is in order.


My Scripts can all be seen here:

http://dlambertson.wix.com/scripts
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Scar Tissue Films
Posted: June 19th, 2019, 2:25pm Report to Moderator
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It's a great tournament though.

I've had a great amount of fun. It really gets you writing and it punishes you for any mistakes.

It wouldn't be the same without Jeff, either. His visceral attacks on stories really get to the marrow of things.
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khamanna
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Hey, great job, Warren and Libby!

No I surely didnt know it was Libby's. It just happened to be super funny and thus my favorite. Happy to see people voted for it.

Rene, yours is another great one.
Thanks for the entertainment, guys
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Scar Tissue Films
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P. S. Matthew Taylor should not quit.

Great writer and great reviewer.
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khamanna
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Quoted from Scar Tissue Films


I get involved in discussions on numerous threads. That's my favourite part.


I responded to your comment on mine just for the sake of having fun. I don't see it as a problem.
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ReneC
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Quoted from Scar Tissue Films
P. S. Matthew Taylor should not quit.

Great writer and great reviewer.


Agreed.


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eldave1
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Quoted from Scar Tissue Films
P. S. Matthew Taylor should not quit.

Great writer and great reviewer.


Ageed


My Scripts can all be seen here:

http://dlambertson.wix.com/scripts
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AnthonyCawood
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Congrats to Warren and Libby, and everyone for getting a script in, it's a hard genre.

Didn't see the bit about Matthew quiting, I'll echo everyone else, good reviewer, good guy... don't quit.

Jeff stirring shit again, surely not!


Anthony Cawood - Award winning screenwriter
Available Short screenplays - http://www.anthonycawood.co.uk/short-scripts
Available Feature screenplays - http://www.anthonycawood.co.uk/feature-film-scripts/
Screenwriting articles - http://www.anthonycawood.co.uk/articles
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Dreamscale
Posted: June 19th, 2019, 5:01pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from eldave1


Wasn't aware of an accusation.  Finally found something buried in one of Jeff's posts.

Jeff - I think either a clarification or an apology is in order.


Dave (and everyone else), I'm not going to apologize for anything I said, that I truly believe.  I do apologize for upsetting everyone, pissing them off, offending them, etc.

Going back to my original comments about the scoring and placement of scripts, I completely stand by what I said.  I was literally shocked when I read down the list.  As I read it over a few times, I saw a script I couldn't even remember, sitting in 2nd place, so I opened it up, read my feedback, read all the other feedback,  and then reread the entire script.

For the life of me, I cannot figure out how it's possible this script was deemed to be the 2nd best of the bunch.  For the most part, feedback was not overly positive - yeah, 2 peeps said it was either their favorite or a top 3, but there was much feedback about the fact that it didn't even meet the requirements of the challenge.

And, it didn't.  The meat of the story had nothing at all to do with a sewer, and was told through a Flashback of talking heads, with a whistle inserted simply to show that time was up for each individual "speed date".

How this ended up with the 2nd highest scores just screams that something is wrong...wrong with the scoring system, wrong with the actual voting.  And this is my point - it makes ZERO sense this could come out in 2nd place.

I don't care who wrote the script.  What I do care about is that at best, it was a middle of the road entry that should have received a 1 in meeting the criteria.

That's all I care to say at this point.
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Scar Tissue Films
Posted: June 19th, 2019, 5:04pm Report to Moderator
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Because some people loved it and gave it very high marks. That's all there is to it.

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Warren
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Thanks all, appreciated. It was a fun script to write.

It is slightly funny to me, a self-proclaimed horror writer, that both times I've made it to the top of a list it's been for rom-coms. I should probably take the hint.

Congrats, Libby. Aussie for the 1 and 2

I'm not sure Scar needs any congrats, he does enough of his own back-patting on every and any thread he can


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Warren
Posted: June 19th, 2019, 5:15pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from DustinBowcot


Warren just seems unfazed by it all. Must be his army training. He could go another ten rounds.


Oh how I wish this was true. This tournament is brutal, fun but brutal.

I remember something you said years ago about how when you get an OWC right itís the best thing ever but when you get it wrong, look out (paraphrasing). I definitely feel the pressure of trying to stay in the upper half of the scorecard. I generally donít sleep well during an OWC, this is 5 weeks of OWCís back to back. Iím going to need a holiday after this.




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DustinBowcot
Posted: June 19th, 2019, 5:24pm Report to Moderator
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I actually agree with Jeff in that the script did cheat the challenge. I switched off on it for that reason. I would have scored it very low on everything (undeservedly so) just for trying to trick me. But others have their own minds and I'm sure Libby hasn't cheated. The writers voting were mostly being generous with criteria as was kinda mass agreed by all through posts on the boards.

So, I think this is where the wobble is coming from. It's not a cheating conspiracy, it's a psychological thing.
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DustinBowcot
Posted: June 19th, 2019, 5:28pm Report to Moderator
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I should clarify that by 'cheat the challenge' I meant not have the story set in a sewer.
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eldave1
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Quoted from Dreamscale


Dave (and everyone else), I'm not going to apologize for anything I said, that I truly believe.  I do apologize for upsetting everyone, pissing them off, offending them, etc.

Going back to my original comments about the scoring and placement of scripts, I completely stand by what I said.  I was literally shocked when I read down the list.  As I read it over a few times, I saw a script I couldn't even remember, sitting in 2nd place, so I opened it up, read my feedback, read all the other feedback,  and then reread the entire script.

For the life of me, I cannot figure out how it's possible this script was deemed to be the 2nd best of the bunch.  For the most part, feedback was not overly positive - yeah, 2 peeps said it was either their favorite or a top 3, but there was much feedback about the fact that it didn't even meet the requirements of the challenge.

And, it didn't.  The meat of the story had nothing at all to do with a sewer, and was told through a Flashback of talking heads, with a whistle inserted simply to show that time was up for each individual "speed date".

How this ended up with the 2nd highest scores just screams that something is wrong...wrong with the scoring system, wrong with the actual voting.  And this is my point - it makes ZERO sense this could come out in 2nd place.

I don't care who wrote the script.  What I do care about is that at best, it was a middle of the road entry that should have received a 1 in meeting the criteria.

That's all I care to say at this point.


You hated both the 2nd and 3rd place finishers.  Obviously you are out of touch with the majority of writers.  That is no reason to imply shenanigans on anyone 's part. It's inappropriate and definitely counter to the spirit of this site. You should apologize.  I recognize you won't.


My Scripts can all be seen here:

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eldave1
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Quoted from DustinBowcot
I actually agree with Jeff in that the script did cheat the challenge. I switched off on it for that reason. I would have scored it very low on everything (undeservedly so) just for trying to trick me. But others have their own minds and I'm sure Libby hasn't cheated. The writers voting were mostly being generous with criteria as was kinda mass agreed by all through posts on the boards.

So, I think this is where the wobble is coming from. It's not a cheating conspiracy, it's a psychological thing.


I agree with the parameter issue and said so in my review
I detest the implication by Jeff that there was something nefarious going on.


My Scripts can all be seen here:

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Scar Tissue Films
Posted: June 19th, 2019, 5:35pm Report to Moderator
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Reading that script's thread it's clear what happened...almost everyone sort of liked it and so would have given reasonable scores. Then a few people really liked it. So from a solid base it rose up in averages.

Like Dave said, one of the key strategies if you're trying to get the top spot is to not piss anybody off so that you get low scores, because one low and one great score is the same as two OK scores.

I feel bad for Libby. She should have been allowed to celebrate the monumental achievement of relegating me to third without all of this coming up. Haha.
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Dreamscale
Posted: June 19th, 2019, 5:47pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from eldave1
You hated both the 2nd and 3rd place finishers.  Obviously you are out of touch with the majority of writers.  That is no reason to imply shenanigans on anyone 's part. It's inappropriate and definitely counter to the spirit of this site. You should apologize.  I recognize you won't.


"Hate" is a strong word, Dave.

And, to say that I'm out of touch with the mindset of "the majority of writers" is also unfounded. Maybe this set of 20 writers, sure, that seems to be a fair statement, but not the majority of all writers.

I don't follow the herd.  I don't climb on bandwagons.  I'm not the Emperor with his new clothes, or lack of clothes.  I calls 'em as I sees 'em.

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Dreamscale
Posted: June 19th, 2019, 5:53pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from eldave1
I agree with the parameter issue and said so in my review
I detest the implication by Jeff that there was something nefarious going on.


Well, let's just remember that in last year's Writer's Tournament, there was something very nefarious going on, and when you see scores like we're seeing, it leads me to believe something "wrong" must be going on.

And let's all be clear and honest here.  I know for a fact that some peeps tell their buddies what they wrote.  That influences scoring.  There's no way around this.  It's fact.

Then you have peeps saying straight out they skimmed the script because of this or that, and that is not going to lead to a good score.

Finally, you have peeps who actually read a script, but decide not to score it for some strange reason.

As I said earlier, I just wish we could see the actual scores to figure out what exactly is going on...because something is definitely going on.

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eldave1
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Quoted from Dreamscale


"Hate" is a strong word, Dave.

And, to say that I'm out of touch with the mindset of "the majority of writers" is also unfounded. Maybe this set of 20 writers, sure, that seems to be a fair statement, but not the majority of all writers.

I don't follow the herd.  I don't climb on bandwagons.  I'm not the Emperor with his new clothes, or lack of clothes.  I calls 'em as I sees 'em.



Okay. Disliked rather than hate.

Of course I didn't mean all writers. I meant these writers.

Calling them as you see them isn't a virtue if you're wrong.


My Scripts can all be seen here:

http://dlambertson.wix.com/scripts
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Dreamscale
Posted: June 19th, 2019, 5:59pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from eldave1


Calling them as you see them isn't a virtue if you're wrong.


I'm not wrong.

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eldave1
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Quoted from eldave1


Okay. Disliked rather than hate.

Of course I didn't mean all writers. I meant these writers.

Calling them as you see them isn't a virtue if you're wrong.


Conjecture is not facts. If you have evidence- present it.


My Scripts can all be seen here:

http://dlambertson.wix.com/scripts
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AnthonyCawood
Posted: June 19th, 2019, 6:14pm Report to Moderator
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Jeff,

It is abundantly clear that you are out of step with the opinions of other writer's on this site, these scripts are not being reviewed anywhere else by any other writer's so who else could Dave mean.

You are never wrong in your own mind, which must be great for you, but twenty other (mostly better) writer's on here seem to constantly disagree with you.

Does that not give you the slightest, tiniest, pause for thought?


Anthony Cawood - Award winning screenwriter
Available Short screenplays - http://www.anthonycawood.co.uk/short-scripts
Available Feature screenplays - http://www.anthonycawood.co.uk/feature-film-scripts/
Screenwriting articles - http://www.anthonycawood.co.uk/articles
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Dreamscale
Posted: June 19th, 2019, 6:22pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from AnthonyCawood
Jeff,

It is abundantly clear that you are out of step with the opinions of other writer's on this site, these scripts are not being reviewed anywhere else by any other writer's so who else could Dave mean.

You are never wrong in your own mind, which must be great for you, but twenty other (mostly better) writer's on here seem to constantly disagree with you.

Does that not give you the slightest, tiniest, pause for thought?


Definitely 20 better writers here!  Hundreds of better writers, if you take all of SS into account.

Yeah, I guess I was wrong...on all my feedback.  These are top notch scripts, solid efforts, from damn solid writers.  Not sure what I was even thinking entering this, knowing that 19 or so of the writers would be capable of writing 5.0 score scripts.

I'm just so proud of myself for not being in 20th position after 2 rounds.  Things must be looking up, and if I could just copy all the mistakes on display and come up with the same type of mostly completely ludicrous stories and plotting, I think I can be a better writer.

I just need some mentors.  Anthony, I think you and I have an awful lot in common...will you help me?  Help me to be a better writer and a better all around person?  I'd really appreciate it.

Let me know, bro.  Thanks in advance!!

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leitskev
Posted: June 19th, 2019, 6:22pm Report to Moderator
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I don't understand what's worth fighting over in this round. While there was some writing talent on display in many of the scripts, none of the stories were worth even thinking about again. I'm sorry if that sounds harsh. But this was a writing exercise...useful for that purpose. But with these parameters it was highly unlikely to result in anything worthwhile. And it didn't. We should all just use the notes and move on.
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Gary in Houston
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One person voting overly high marks to a script in a collusive manner isn't enough to move the needle significantly; probably something along the lines of .089 points.  That won't move someone from twelfth to second. It might change someone from fourth to third -- maybe.  But if they're already that high to begin with, that means a lot of other reviewers liked the script as well.  But if over half the reviewers only gave average marks to the script, then 5's across the board from one reviewer trying to help someone else isn't going to make much difference.  Plus, the writer of the script can't vote for themself, so it would take a whole gaggle of people in on this nefarious scheme to get any traction on moving a script, and doing that would hurt their own script's standing. None of this makes any sense.

I looked at my scorecard and was pretty close to the actual finish -- there were a couple a little out of the ranges.  I have "Crappy Job" higher than most people, e.g., but obviously a lot of people have a different opinion than Jeff about whether the top two scripts were quality writing.

Art stirs different opinions about quality in everyone. Because we don't all tow the line regarding the quality doesn't make us wrong, and it doesn't make us right.

Peace and love to all,
Gary


An utterly mediocre writer who somehow still falls bass ackwards into getting some of his scripts produced.
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eldave1
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Quoted from Gary in Houston
One person voting overly high marks to a script in a collusive manner isn't enough to move the needle significantly; probably something along the lines of .089 points.  That won't move someone from twelfth to second. It might change someone from fourth to third -- maybe.  But if they're already that high to begin with, that means a lot of other reviewers liked the script as well.  But if over half the reviewers only gave average marks to the script, then 5's across the board from one reviewer trying to help someone else isn't going to make much difference.  Plus, the writer of the script can't vote for themself, so it would take a whole gaggle of people in on this nefarious scheme to get any traction on moving a script, and doing that would hurt their own script's standing. None of this makes any sense.

I looked at my scorecard and was pretty close to the actual finish -- there were a couple a little out of the ranges.  I have "Crappy Job" higher than most people, e.g., but obviously a lot of people have a different opinion than Jeff about whether the top two scripts were quality writing.

Art stirs different opinions about quality in everyone. Because we don't all tow the line regarding the quality doesn't make us wrong, and it doesn't make us right.

Peace and love to all,
Gary


Well said


My Scripts can all be seen here:

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Warren
Posted: June 19th, 2019, 6:41pm Report to Moderator
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3 Dating in the Future World by Richard D. Kinsella (Scar Tissue Films)

Yeesh, at least I know why you keep coming at me, over and over and over again on this thread, classy.

Worth pointing out that I was right about it being a Brit writer.



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Dreamscale
Posted: June 19th, 2019, 7:00pm Report to Moderator
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Remember, we don't know how many votes each script is getting, and I guarantee you, each script is not getting 19 votes.

You're also wrong in saying 1 or 2 5.0 scores don't have an impact.  They definitely do, and with how close the 1st to the worst script was in round 1 (1.77 points, I think it was), just do the math.  It's fairly simple math.
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Gary in Houston
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Quoted from Dreamscale
Remember, we don't know how many votes each script is getting, and I guarantee you, each script is not getting 19 votes.

You're also wrong in saying 1 or 2 5.0 scores don't have an impact.  They definitely do, and with how close the 1st to the worst script was in round 1 (1.77 points, I think it was), just do the math.  It's fairly simple math.


You're talking about the AVERAGE POINTS scored difference, not the difference in total points. That's a big difference.  For example, if one writer scored an average of 2.23 points and was in last place, that's a pretty marginal score, especially if they received a number of 5's for meeting the criteria.  If the difference was 1.77, then the top score had an average score of 4.0.  That's a very good script by my book (assuming 5 is excellent, 4 is very good, 3 is good, 2 is fair, 1 is poor).

I suppose we'll just have to agree to disagree.


An utterly mediocre writer who somehow still falls bass ackwards into getting some of his scripts produced.
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Dreamscale
Posted: June 19th, 2019, 8:06pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from Gary in Houston


You're talking about the AVERAGE POINTS scored difference, not the difference in total points. That's a big difference.  For example, if one writer scored an average of 2.23 points and was in last place, that's a pretty marginal score, especially if they received a number of 5's for meeting the criteria.  If the difference was 1.77, then the top score had an average score of 4.0.  That's a very good script by my book (assuming 5 is excellent, 4 is very good, 3 is good, 2 is fair, 1 is poor).

I suppose we'll just have to agree to disagree.


Gary, you're missing the mathematical difference.  You're missing the classic "Bell Curve" philosophy.

Sean said, as far as I think. that the difference between the very highest scored script, and the very lowest scored script, was 1.77 points.  It should be much closer to 3.0 points.

I'm not making this shit up.  It's common Math and Statistics 101,

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Gary in Houston
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Quoted from Dreamscale


Gary, you're missing the mathematical difference.  You're missing the classic "Bell Curve" philosophy.

Sean said, as far as I think. that the difference between the very highest scored script, and the very lowest scored script, was 1.77 points.  It should be much closer to 3.0 points.

I'm not making this shit up.  It's common Math and Statistics 101,



I would normally agree, but there's an outlier factoring in here, which is the criteria component is an all or nothing factor (so to speak).  So a lot of those low scoring scripts would be a lot lower scoring on average if they didn't get a 5 on the criteria.  It scues the number a little higher towards the mean rather than creating a normal shaped curve.


An utterly mediocre writer who somehow still falls bass ackwards into getting some of his scripts produced.
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LC
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Ooh, some nice early morning reading...

Few things (if anyone cares).

Dave, thanks for the strategy tips. I read very carefully, for the next rounds. Spot on imh.

Dustin, thanks for the compliments re my writing ability. Re Hubby as co-writer - he's my biggest critic. He refuses to collaborate at this stage though (maybe he thinks it'll end in divorce) and his main role is to let me know when to go back to the drawing board.  I am more often than not damned with faint praise which turns out to be a good thing.

Warren, I doubt very much an Aussie standoff at the end of this tournament. I doubt I'll have the points and honestly, I'm not at your level of creating story consistently, yet.  You and others have that over me at the moment. That comes wiith practice. I've watched you evolve fast with your writing cause you're at it all the time. Same with other top-notch writers on SS - Dustin, Dena, Pia, Dave, Rick, you're all at it all the time and the development and the effort shows.

I wasn't in Round 1, and Round 3, I'm tanking - I disliked the 'sanitiser' element vehemently and I still maintain that we'd get more potentially producable scripts out of these challenges if the parameters were still difficult but not verging on silly. Monster in the Whitehouse comes to mind. No offence, Blondie. Rounds four and five may prove beyond me. Who knows, I might not even get an entry in.

I'm going to keep trying though cause at least it's getting my writer hat on, and at least I'm getting the words on the page. I'm trying not to just give up when the first idea that comes fails.

Jeff, remember that 24-48 hour challenge some years back? One of your character's was named Micah - it was one of the best (serious toned) things I've read of yours and I think it was cause you wrote it outside of your comfort zone of bros and hot girls getting schlammied around the spa. Forgot to add: not cool you alluding to cheating.

Finally, Matty, come back!
This is typical OWC /tournament stuff.
You aced it in Round 1!

End of my rant.
Carry on.


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eldave1
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Quoted from Dreamscale


Gary, you're missing the mathematical difference.  You're missing the classic "Bell Curve" philosophy.

Sean said, as far as I think. that the difference between the very highest scored script, and the very lowest scored script, was 1.77 points.  It should be much closer to 3.0 points.

I'm not making this shit up.  It's common Math and Statistics 101,



The Bell Curve represents what statisticians call a "normal distribution." A normal distribution is a sample with an arithmetic average and an equal distribution above and below average. It assumes you have an equivalent number of people above and below average, and that there will be a very small number of people two standard deviations above and below the average (mean).

That is not always the case, especially as it applies to something like an OWC. The mixture of writers is going to favored the more experienced -  i.e., there are far more regulars than they are newbies. A bell curve distribution of scores is the last thing one should statistically expect.

Regardless. Gary's point is spot on.  Assume each script averages 12 scores. A script that got ten 2s as an average and two fake 5s is only moving from 2 to 2.5. Similarly, a script that got ten legit 3s and two fake 5s is only going to move from 3 to 3.3.

Most importantly, there is zero evidence that this phenomenon even occurred.

As ALWAYS - the cream will rise to the top.


My Scripts can all be seen here:

http://dlambertson.wix.com/scripts
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eldave1
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Quoted from LC
Ooh, some nice early morning reading...

Few things (if anyone cares).

Dave, thanks for the strategy tips. I read very carefully, for the next rounds. Spot on imh.

Dustin, thanks for the compliments re my writing ability. Re Hubby as co-writer - he's my biggest critic. He refuses to collaborate at this stage though (maybe he thinks it'll end in divorce) and his main role is to let me know when to go back to the drawing board.  I am more often than not damned with faint praise which turns out to be a good thing.

Warren, I doubt very much an Aussie standoff at the end of this tournament. I doubt I'll have the points and honestly, I'm not at your level of creating story consistently, yet.  You and others have that over me at the moment. That comes wiith practice. I've watched you evolve fast with your writing cause you're at it all the time. Same with other top-notch writers on SS - Dustin, Dena, Pia, Dave, Rick, you're all at it all the time and the development and the effort shows.

I wasn't in Round 1, and Round 3, I'm tanking - I disliked the 'sanitiser' element vehemently and I still maintain that we'd get more potentially producable scripts out of these challenges if the parameters were still difficult but not verging on silly. Monster in the Whitehouse comes to mind. No offence, Blondie. Rounds four and five may prove beyond me. Who knows, I might not even get an entry in.

I'm going to keep trying though cause at least it's getting my writer hat on, and at least I'm getting the words on the page. I'm trying not to just give up when the first idea that comes fails.

Jeff, remember that 24-48 hour challenge some years back? One of your character's was named Micah - it was one of the best (serious toned) things I've read of yours and I think it was cause you wrote it outside of your comfort zone of bros and hot girls getting schlammied around the spa. Forgot to add: not cool you alluding to cheating.

Finally, Matty, come back!
This is typical OWC /tournament stuff.
You aced it in Round 1!

End of my rant.
Carry on.


My pleasure, Libby. Glad it helped.


My Scripts can all be seen here:

http://dlambertson.wix.com/scripts
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Dreamscale
Posted: June 19th, 2019, 9:27pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from LC
Jeff, remember that 24-48 hour challenge some years back? One of your character's was named Micah - it was one of the best (serious toned) things I've read of yours and I think it was cause you wrote it outside of your comfort zone of bros and hot girls getting schlammied around the spa.


Of course I remember that script, and actually, I wrote exactly what I wanted to.

And, the script in question, mine from Round 2, had absolutely NOTHING to do with hot girls, bros, hot tubs, or even a single cuss word.


Quoted from LC
Forgot to add: not cool you alluding to cheating.


No, you're right, it's not cool, but as I've tried to say, show, whatever I can do, something is not right about this scoring, and if it's simply the system, I do apologize, and if you are 100% innocent, I do apologize, but there's absolutely no way something is not afoot here.

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eldave1
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Quoted from Dreamscale


Of course I remember that script, and actually, I wrote exactly what I wanted to.

And, the script in question, mine from Round 2, had absolutely NOTHING to do with hot girls, bros, hot tubs, or even a single cuss word.



No, you're right, it's not cool, but as I've tried to say, show, whatever I can do, something is not right about this scoring, and if it's simply the system, I do apologize, and if you are 100% innocent, I do apologize, but there's absolutely no way something is not afoot here.



If you are 100% innocent- ugh!!.



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Dreamscale
Posted: June 19th, 2019, 9:44pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from eldave1
The Bell Curve represents what statisticians call a "normal distribution." A normal distribution is a sample with an arithmetic average and an equal distribution above and below average. It assumes you have an equivalent number of people above and below average, and that there will be a very small number of people two standard deviations above and below the average (mean).

That is not always the case, especially as it applies to something like an OWC. The mixture of writers is going to favored the more experienced -  i.e., there are far more regulars than they are newbies. A bell curve distribution of scores is the last thing one should statistically expect.

Regardless. Gary's point is spot on.  Assume each script averages 12 scores. A script that got ten 2s as an average and two fake 5s is only moving from 2 to 2.5. Similarly, a script that got ten legit 3s and two fake 5s is only going to move from 3 to 3.3.

Most importantly, there is zero evidence that this phenomenon even occurred.

As ALWAYS - the cream will rise to the top.


Dave, you're a smart guy...I know that, but what you're saying about the Bell Curve is not correct.

This is not some cream of the crop dream team, writing their best scripts.  Many write it in an hour, 3 hours, whatever...anything to get a script in.  The Bell Curve should prove out in this scenario.
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Don
Posted: June 19th, 2019, 11:22pm Report to Moderator
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So, what are you writing?

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Quoted from eldave1
Just got back to this thread. First, congrats to all those soldiering on an special congrats to the top placements. This is an iron man/woman  contest and I salute all those making the effort.

But the whining and allegations of mis-scoring/cheating etc. is getting old fast. It I ran this site it would probably be the last OWC.

I've been in more than a dozen of these and NEVER EVER have I see an undeserving script finish at the top. Sure, there have been times I would have changed the order of the top three - but a deserving script always took down the challenge. AND - it is okay and perfectly natural for some folks to think one script is a stinker and for someone else to love it. Stop the whining because something you hated someone else liked and vice versa. Call it the Roma principle. Nominated for best screenplay. I read it - I'd give it a 1. Obviously some people gave it a 5.

And there is a strategy to winning these things that you need to follow if you are going to place well.  If you don't employ a strategy - don't whine about the results.  Jeff - I'm going to use you as an example since you've  expressed great angst about your placements in the first two rounds. e.g:



Jeff, you are in the wrong sandbox.  Assuming your two scripts were perfect - which they were not - they never had a chance because you employed a less than optimal strategy for an OWC.

Your Bobble-head entry - Dead on arrival. You have a Japanese woman, speaking in broken English, dressed like a hooker, discussing how she would never tolerate the insertion of a Eli Manning bobble-head doll into her XXX or XXX. Although she'd consider A-Rod.

Even if Aaron Sorkin wrote the rest, that script was doomed right there because it's going to offend several people. Sure - some will be find with it. But too many won't and your score will plummet. You are not writing for yourself - you're writing for an audience of 20 to 30 people.  And don't get me wrong - write whatever you want, as extreme as you want. Just don't be surprised when the extreme doesn't hit the target audience in an OWC.  

Your references are generally too narrow or dated. Here you went with American athletes.  Only some will get it. i.e., think how much broader the understanding is if you substitute Eli and A-rod with Ben Allfeck and Matt Damon.  

Finally, in this script you introduced an entirely unnecessary character (Monty) in the second part of the script. In a short - especially a five pager - clarity and simplicity are sound strategies.

Your second script. I thought - hmm - nicely done.  May have been a top five for me (can't say since I read so few) - but well written with a strategic flaw. Two way many characters (11) to digest in a five pager. Again, clarity and simplicity is king.  Had you narrowed it down to maybe half the characters you could have finished top three.

If you truly want to do better in these, be more strategic - widest appeal, simple as possible. If you just want to write what you want to write - cool. But don't whine when it doesn't land.

Anyway - Long-winded way of saying if those who are whining want to turn this from fun to work - keep it up. You may just literally choke the life out of it.  

Rant over.





Dave,

Thank you so much for being a steady hand and objective observer on what is going on.

I appreciate your support and you (and Bert, and Pia, and Sean, and LC and countless others too numerous to list) are the reason we continue to do this to the best of our ability in the face of cowardly, lying bastards who seek to impugn this body of people who want to write good stories that someone will buy and produce.

I also appreciate the fact you realize how much on the razors edge this all is.   Literally, the only reason this discussion board still exists is because of the moderators and people like you who keep coming back and supporting the site.

Sincerely,

Don Boose  


Visit SimplyScripts.com for what is new on the site.

-------------
You will miss 100% of the shots you don't take.
- Wayne Gretzky
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Warren
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Quoted from PKCardinal



You've been awesome this tourney. I hope you reconsider. Maybe just don't read these threads and do your thing. Write a script that makes you happy and leave the rest behind...

We can't lose the good ones.


I think you should stick it out, Matthew. Two more scripts.



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eldave1
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Quoted from Don


Dave,

Thank you so much for being a steady hand and objective observer on what is going on.

I appreciate your support and you (and Bert, and Pia, and Sean, and LC and countless others too numerous to list) are the reason we continue to do this to the best of our ability in the face of cowardly, lying bastards who seek to impugn this body of people who want to write good stories that someone will buy and produce.

I also appreciate the fact you realize how much on the razors edge this all is.   Literally, the only reason this discussion board still exists is because of the moderators and people like you who keep coming back and supporting the site.

Sincerely,

Don Boose  


Thanks to you Don for keeping this cool house open. It's the best.


My Scripts can all be seen here:

http://dlambertson.wix.com/scripts
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Warren
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Quoted from eldave1


Thanks to you Don for keeping this cool house open. It's the best.


I second that. I love this joint.


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Scar Tissue Films
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Thirded.
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LC
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Fourth-ed.  


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Quoted from LC
Fourth-ed.  


I take the fifth


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LC
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Quoted from eldave1
I take the fifth





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eldave1
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Quoted from Dreamscale


Dave, you're a smart guy...I know that, but what you're saying about the Bell Curve is not correct.

This is not some cream of the crop dream team, writing their best scripts.  Many write it in an hour, 3 hours, whatever...anything to get a script in.  The Bell Curve should prove out in this scenario.


If you asked the American population to name the judges sitting on the Supreme Court, one would expect a normal bell curve distribution of the results. If you ask the same question 2 a group a Law School students you would not get a bell curve distribution. It would be more of what they called a power graph. Everyone who participated in the challenge write scripts with a high concentration of people who have participated in the challenge before. I don't think that yields a classic bell curve distribution. At the end of the day, I guess neither one of us truly knows since we don't chart the stuff. It would be an interesting data set to see.


My Scripts can all be seen here:

http://dlambertson.wix.com/scripts
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AnthonyCawood
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Seventh it!


Anthony Cawood - Award winning screenwriter
Available Short screenplays - http://www.anthonycawood.co.uk/short-scripts
Available Feature screenplays - http://www.anthonycawood.co.uk/feature-film-scripts/
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DustinBowcot
Posted: June 20th, 2019, 1:47am Report to Moderator
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Maths was never my strongpoint... as soon as it moved into pythagoras and complicated algebra, I gave up. I've also forgotten all the rest aside from the basics.

However, even if Jeff is correct with the numbers, then it is possible that my theory on the psychology of the reviewers may be the reason. Many writers that had weaknesses in their own criteria would have been easier on the other writers - in the hope that they also get a 5.

So, people were getting 5s when they should have had 1s.

It is a factor that has not been counted in. I don't know how to do that. Well, I probably could.... I just can't be arsed as maths hurts my head.
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Scar Tissue Films
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Quoted from Warren
3 Dating in the Future World by Richard D. Kinsella (Scar Tissue Films)

Yeesh, at least I know why you keep coming at me, over and over and over again on this thread, classy.

Worth pointing out that I was right about it being a Brit writer.



What are you on about?  
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Warren
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Quoted from LC



Warren, I doubt very much an Aussie standoff at the end of this tournament. I doubt I'll have the points and honestly, I'm not at your level of creating story consistently, yet.  You and others have that over me at the moment. That comes wiith practice. I've watched you evolve fast with your writing cause you're at it all the time. Same with other top-notch writers on SS - Dustin, Dena, Pia, Dave, Rick, you're all at it all the time and the development and the effort shows.



I don't presume I'll still be up the top as the end, I hope I am, but this is a long slog with some real quality writers.

I just meant 1 and 2 for the round still cool.

Thanks for the compliment, I'd like to nominate Paul to go into that pool of writers. I actually thought your script was his. You might not know it but that means a lot in my books, probably doesn't count for too much, but anyway.



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Matthew Taylor
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Thanks for the love people - I didn't put up that post to have my ego stroked, honest  

I guess I looked at the thread at the wrong time, the latest posts were calling people rats and insinuating that a writer commenting on his own script thread was somehow nefarious.
I sat there for a few minutes thinking "Wtf is going on? I thought we were adult writers, competing in a fun tournament about bobble-heads and hand sanitiser, why is this so toxic?"

I didn't want to carry on contributing to the tournament with one eye looking over my shoulder thinking "Better not put that in my review, might get accused of favouritism" - "Better not give this a high score, might get accused of collusion" - "I hope I don't top the rankings next round, I'll have fingers pointed at me, or slammed for not deserving the spot"

Bell curve - People are aware that you can still have a bell curve with a low standard deviation, right? as in - doesn't matter if the difference between top and bottom is 1.75 or 3.0 - with normal distribution it still creates a bell curve, one would just be thinner and taller than the other.

Oh and I want to echo something LC said about making the parameters a little more production friendly - Aeroplane location may be fun to write, but I can image expensive as hell for a 5 minute short - I wouldn't want to reduce the difficulty, but more budget friendly locations might be nice - after all, if we get usable shorts from this AND still keep it as a challenge, win-win.



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Warren
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Quoted from Scar Tissue Films


What are you on about?  


Not worth getting into, there is enough negativity on the boards. Most of the posts have been deleted anyway.


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LC
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Quoted from Warren

I just meant 1 and 2 for the round still cool.

Very cool.


Quoted from Warren
Thanks for the compliment, I'd like to nominate Paul to go into that pool of writers. I actually thought your script was his. You might not know it but that means a lot in my books, probably doesn't count for too much, but anyway.

I concur. I did notice you thought it was his.  
...

You back in, Matty?



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Matthew Taylor
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Quoted from LC


You back in, Matty?



Yeah, why not lol Can't let the haters win   I much prefer panic writing scripts on Mondays rather than doing actual work anyway


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Warren
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Quoted from Matthew Taylor


Yeah, why not lol Can't let the haters win   I much prefer panic writing scripts on Mondays rather than doing actual work anyway


I'm resigned to the fact that I'm not going to get anything productive done at work for the next few weeks. Priorities.


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AnthonyCawood
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Glad to hear it Matthew!


Anthony Cawood - Award winning screenwriter
Available Short screenplays - http://www.anthonycawood.co.uk/short-scripts
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Quoted from Matthew Taylor
Oh and I want to echo something LC said about making the parameters a little more production friendly - Aeroplane location may be fun to write, but I can image expensive as hell for a 5 minute short - I wouldn't want to reduce the difficulty, but more budget friendly locations might be nice - after all, if we get usable shorts from this AND still keep it as a challenge, win-win.


I really second that.



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Philostrate
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Quoted from Matthew Taylor


Yeah, why not lol Can't let the haters win   I much prefer panic writing scripts on Mondays rather than doing actual work anyway


Cool!


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Scar Tissue Films
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Quoted from Warren


Not worth getting into, there is enough negativity on the boards. Most of the posts have been deleted anyway.


No problem. I think you're confusing me with Dustin. You had a very funny battle with him on there. It was comedy gold tbh.
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Warren
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Sean's been mighty quiet... everything good?

Will we get to see the top averages for the round 2 scripts?

Also will we see a running leader board or just the standings for each round?


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leitskev
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Quoted from DustinBowcot


However, even if Jeff is correct with the numbers, then it is possible that my theory on the psychology of the reviewers may be the reason. Many writers that had weaknesses in their own criteria would have been easier on the other writers - in the hope that they also get a 5.



A reasonable guess, but, at least in my case, not accurate. I was on record before I even wrote my own story that if people kept up this rigid demand in meeting criteria it was going to result in an awful reading experience. For several years I've been involved with a similar contest, but where there are paid judges, and the criteria requirements are not taken to such severe levels.
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Matthew Taylor
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Wait! can we start this round again?... I've just had a killer idea!....

...Pretty please?


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Gary in Houston
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Since Iím getting absolutely roasted this round and will fall out of the top ten, at least I have the freedom now not to worry anymore about my place in the standings and write absolutely batshit crazy stuff the next couple of rounds and not worry whether people care.

One other note about these OWCís, I had a film student contact me about wanting to make my script ďThe OptionĒ from a couple of challenges back (the romantic comedy one). If that happens, that would be the third script Iíve had made from these challenges, following ďRoadside AttractionĒ and ďSkipĒ (which is being submitted to festivals now). So these challenges are worth the effort ó people outside of the writers and reviewers are looking at these for sure.


An utterly mediocre writer who somehow still falls bass ackwards into getting some of his scripts produced.
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FrankM
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I think what Jeff is describing is the Central Limit Theorem, which is part of why bell curves seem to show up so often in nature. In a nutshell, it says that if you take averages of a whole lot of batches of measurements, the distribution of the averages tends to a bell curve. When there are a plethora of influences on an individual measurement, those tend to cancel each other out and the single measurement turns into an average effect which would also tend to a bell curve.

Leaving aside the censoring effects (lower limit of 1, upper limit of 5), Iíd otherwise expect the scriptsí score to look roughly bell-shaped... given a large enough sample. Roughly twenty measurements, in an environment with fairly wide variance (differences in taste), just doesnít get us there with any confidence.

If there happens to be broad agreement that a particular script sucks (to pick a purely random example, Image Problem ), scores ought to look bell-y. When reviewers canít agree on the color of an orange, all bets are off for small samples.


Feature-length scripts:
Who Wants to Be a Princess? (Family)
Glass House (Horror anthology)

TV pilots:
"Kord" (Fantasy)
"Mal Suerte" (Superhero)

Additional scripts are listed here.
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khamanna
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I had bad internet and o my God!

Matthew left and came back.
Jeff came up with a number theorem...

That's what I infer from this page.

Let me leave and come back again.
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ReneC
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Quoted from Matthew Taylor


Oh and I want to echo something LC said about making the parameters a little more production friendly - Aeroplane location may be fun to write, but I can image expensive as hell for a 5 minute short - I wouldn't want to reduce the difficulty, but more budget friendly locations might be nice - after all, if we get usable shorts from this AND still keep it as a challenge, win-win.



Glad you're back in, Matthew.

I've been selling shorts and getting them produced lately, so I was in a period of writing only what could be produced. However, I don't mind having parameters that are more budget loose. It lets me try ideas that I couldn't write with a low budget in mind.

Ultimately, I prefer writing shorts that at least have a shot at being produced, so five rounds of astronomically expensive scripts seems like a bit of a waste, but even expensive scripts are worth adding to the portfolio if they're good.


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Quoted from Gary in Houston
Since Iím getting absolutely roasted this round and will fall out of the top ten, at least I have the freedom now not to worry anymore about my place in the standings and write absolutely batshit crazy stuff the next couple of rounds and not worry whether people care.


Can't wait to see what you throw at us.  

Congrats on another possible OWC getting produced!


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Maybe we can give the math theory a rest and just go with the flow. We aren't going to get the data so it's all conjecture. I choose to have faith in the process and our Grand Overloard Sean and the Almighty Don have put in place. This isn't their first rodeo.


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LC
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Quoted from ReneC
Maybe we can give the math theory a rest and just go with the flow. We aren't going to get the data so it's all conjecture. I choose to have faith in the process and our Grand Overloard Sean and the Almighty Don have put in place. This isn't their first rodeo.

Ditto to that. Well put, Rene.


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eldave1
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Quoted from DustinBowcot
Maths was never my strongpoint... as soon as it moved into pythagoras and complicated algebra, I gave up. I've also forgotten all the rest aside from the basics.

However, even if Jeff is correct with the numbers, then it is possible that my theory on the psychology of the reviewers may be the reason. Many writers that had weaknesses in their own criteria would have been easier on the other writers - in the hope that they also get a 5.

So, people were getting 5s when they should have had 1s.

It is a factor that has not been counted in. I don't know how to do that. Well, I probably could.... I just can't be arsed as maths hurts my head.


Yeah, it's a mind numbing topic. The only reason I continued with it was that Jeff had a theory that (a) a 1.77 difference between top and bottom was a problem and (b) because that means it is not following the classic "Bell Curve" philosophy. i.e., there's something wrong.

First - you are correct in your premise.  Bell curves are only applicable in what are called normal
distributions. They (normal) really only occur when there are not significant influences on the data being measured, A great example is the roll of two dice.  Let's say you roll them a 1000 times to see what number comes up.

The number seven will always be in the dead center of the curve (highest probable outcome), two and twelve will always be at the far ends. i.e., That;s because there are no other parameters or influences to account for. Now - if you load those same dice - your bell curve is screwed.

Classic bell curves generally don't result where there are influences. i.e., those areas where talent, vision, IQ, etc make an impact. A classic example would be student grades. They don't result in classic bell curves, especially as you get into private schools.

Although you claim to dislike math (although many chess players are math junkies) you did hit the nail on the head here:


Quoted Text
.... my theory on the psychology of the reviewers may be the reason. Many writers that had weaknesses in their own criteria would have been easier on the other writers - in the hope that they also get a 5.


Exactly and another reason you wouldn't see a bell curve. Along with other subjective characteristics of each reviewer.

Long winded way of saying that from a statistical perspective - the lack of a bell curve in the distribution of scores or a deviation from top to bottom of less than the middle point (e.g., 1.77 vs vs 2.5)  means absolutely foking nothing in terms of the validity of the scoring.

I need to drink less coffee in the morning.




My Scripts can all be seen here:

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eldave1
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Quoted from Matthew Taylor
Thanks for the love people - I didn't put up that post to have my ego stroked, honest  

I guess I looked at the thread at the wrong time, the latest posts were calling people rats and insinuating that a writer commenting on his own script thread was somehow nefarious.
I sat there for a few minutes thinking "Wtf is going on? I thought we were adult writers, competing in a fun tournament about bobble-heads and hand sanitiser, why is this so toxic?"

I didn't want to carry on contributing to the tournament with one eye looking over my shoulder thinking "Better not put that in my review, might get accused of favouritism" - "Better not give this a high score, might get accused of collusion" - "I hope I don't top the rankings next round, I'll have fingers pointed at me, or slammed for not deserving the spot"

Bell curve - People are aware that you can still have a bell curve with a low standard deviation, right? as in - doesn't matter if the difference between top and bottom is 1.75 or 3.0 - with normal distribution it still creates a bell curve, one would just be thinner and taller than the other.

Oh and I want to echo something LC said about making the parameters a little more production friendly - Aeroplane location may be fun to write, but I can image expensive as hell for a 5 minute short - I wouldn't want to reduce the difficulty, but more budget friendly locations might be nice - after all, if we get usable shorts from this AND still keep it as a challenge, win-win.



Matthew - great to see you back in. You're a solid writer and a terrific reviewer.



My Scripts can all be seen here:

http://dlambertson.wix.com/scripts
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eldave1
Posted: June 20th, 2019, 10:31am Report to Moderator
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Quoted from ReneC
Maybe we can give the math theory a rest and just go with the flow. We aren't going to get the data so it's all conjecture. I choose to have faith in the process and our Grand Overloard Sean and the Almighty Don have put in place. This isn't their first rodeo.


I had calculated that there was a 86.7% chance that someone would make this statement with a 92.5% chance that it would be responded to on an average of five minutes, plus or minus one standard deviation.

I will cease math theory


My Scripts can all be seen here:

http://dlambertson.wix.com/scripts
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PKCardinal
Posted: June 20th, 2019, 10:35am Report to Moderator
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Thanks to Warren and LC for their nice comments. Appreciate that.


PaulKWrites.com

60 Feet Under - Low budget, contained thriller/Feature
The Hand of God - Low budget, semi-contained thriller/Feature
Wait Till Next Year - Disney-style family sports comedy/Feature

Many shorts available for production: comedy, thriller, drama, light horror
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leitskev
Posted: June 20th, 2019, 10:37am Report to Moderator
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People have different ways of scoring these. I didn't expect to hand out any 5's and I did not. For me, a five means a home run in that criteria. Hard to do in 72 hours with the other limitations. But I also didn't hand out many 1's. I don't think I gave any in the second round, maybe 2 in the first round. I gave out a ton of 2's and 3's.

I think some people took the approach if they liked a script they gave 5's, if they hated it 1's. I'm basing that on the comments, I don't know.

As Dave said, if scoring well means a lot to you, there are strategies. Yes, there is probably some communication between contestants. Not in my case because I'm only friends with Dena and Pia, and they didn't play in this. But there are other strategies. For one thing, don't use this to break rules or conventions. It won't piss every reader off, but plenty it will. Other possible strategies: low character count, simple story, limited exposition, no flashbacks(writers are taught to hate those).

Another sneaky strategy, which I don't recommend, is to comment early on your own and give it glowing praise. This can be very effective because a lot of people read the first couple of comments before they read the script. If a reader starts out his read with a positive expectation they are much more likely to have a positive read.
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FrankM
Posted: June 20th, 2019, 10:40am Report to Moderator
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Quoted from eldave1


I had calculated that there was a 86.7% chance that someone would make this statement with a 92.5% chance that it would be responded to on an average of five minutes, plus or minus one standard deviation.

I will cease math theory


86.2% of statistics are made up on the spot  


Feature-length scripts:
Who Wants to Be a Princess? (Family)
Glass House (Horror anthology)

TV pilots:
"Kord" (Fantasy)
"Mal Suerte" (Superhero)

Additional scripts are listed here.
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eldave1
Posted: June 20th, 2019, 10:41am Report to Moderator
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Quoted from FrankM


86.2% of statistics are made up on the spot  


Nice!


My Scripts can all be seen here:

http://dlambertson.wix.com/scripts
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DustinBowcot
Posted: June 20th, 2019, 10:42am Report to Moderator
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I'm not one of those players that likes math, although most definitely are. Chess can be just as much about creativity as calculation. I know a maths professor who plays regularly for his club as well as the county on occasion and he's around the same level as my 11-year-old son is currently. My 13-year-old is better than me now. Neither of my kids particularly like math either.

I suppose calculating numbers just isn't as exciting as outsmarting your opponent in a game of strategy and tactics.

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leitskev
Posted: June 20th, 2019, 10:47am Report to Moderator
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Quoted from DustinBowcot


I suppose calculating numbers just isn't as exciting as outsmarting your opponent in a game of strategy and tactics.



I love strategy games. But I can't see the use of applying to a competition where the writers judge each other. So what happens if you come to a script that you know will score well, do you give it 1's just to help your script gain position?
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FrankM
Posted: June 20th, 2019, 10:47am Report to Moderator
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Didnít mean to poke an issue that was settling down, just was away for a bit (intermittent access to mobile Internet) and stats is a part of my day job.

I spend about half my time doing stats, another half researching, another half teaching, and another half doing professional service like evaluating grants and othersí research. Which adds up to over 100% because Iím busy


Feature-length scripts:
Who Wants to Be a Princess? (Family)
Glass House (Horror anthology)

TV pilots:
"Kord" (Fantasy)
"Mal Suerte" (Superhero)

Additional scripts are listed here.
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eldave1
Posted: June 20th, 2019, 11:02am Report to Moderator
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Quoted from DustinBowcot
I'm not one of those players that likes math, although most definitely are. Chess can be just as much about creativity as calculation. I know a maths professor who plays regularly for his club as well as the county on occasion and he's around the same level as my 11-year-old son is currently. My 13-year-old is better than me now. Neither of my kids particularly like math either.

I suppose calculating numbers just isn't as exciting as outsmarting your opponent in a game of strategy and tactics.



No, Chess is definitely more rewarding than math. But really requires imagine and creative thinking.

As a kid, I got top scores in math and by brother was abysmal. He always kicked my ass in chess. My guess is that he could have done much better in math, but it was much more fun to  kick his brother's ass in chess.

Cool that your kids are interested.


My Scripts can all be seen here:

http://dlambertson.wix.com/scripts
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eldave1
Posted: June 20th, 2019, 11:03am Report to Moderator
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Quoted from leitskev


I love strategy games. But I can't see the use of applying to a competition where the writers judge each other. So what happens if you come to a script that you know will score well, do you give it 1's just to help your script gain position?


No.


My Scripts can all be seen here:

http://dlambertson.wix.com/scripts
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PKCardinal
Posted: June 20th, 2019, 11:03am Report to Moderator
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I would suggest that if people are employing strategy in their scoring or reviews... they're doing the challenge wrong.

This thing is designed to motivate us to write, to help each other get better and to slowly improve our own writing.

Anything beyond that is silliness.

The competition aspect is for motivation. Attempting to falsely pump your own script runs counter to that.

And, seriously, I doubt anyone is doing these things anyway. So, sound and fury signifying nothing in my book.


PaulKWrites.com

60 Feet Under - Low budget, contained thriller/Feature
The Hand of God - Low budget, semi-contained thriller/Feature
Wait Till Next Year - Disney-style family sports comedy/Feature

Many shorts available for production: comedy, thriller, drama, light horror
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eldave1
Posted: June 20th, 2019, 11:06am Report to Moderator
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Quoted from PKCardinal
I would suggest that if people are employing strategy in their scoring or reviews... they're doing the challenge wrong.

This thing is designed to motivate us to write, to help each other get better and to slowly improve our own writing.

Anything beyond that is silliness.

The competition aspect is for motivation. Attempting to falsely pump your own script runs counter to that.

And, seriously, I doubt anyone is doing these things anyway. So, sound and fury signifying nothing in my book.


Yes!


My Scripts can all be seen here:

http://dlambertson.wix.com/scripts
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PKCardinal
Posted: June 20th, 2019, 11:07am Report to Moderator
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Will we be getting an updated writer leaderboard this round?


PaulKWrites.com

60 Feet Under - Low budget, contained thriller/Feature
The Hand of God - Low budget, semi-contained thriller/Feature
Wait Till Next Year - Disney-style family sports comedy/Feature

Many shorts available for production: comedy, thriller, drama, light horror
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