Final Scores

Writers' Choice - Warren Duncan TAS: 3.68 - Scripts: 5
Second - Paul Knauer TAS: 3.50 - Scripts: 5
Third - Rene Claveau TAS: 3.40 - Scripts: 5
Fourth - John Staats TAS: 3.28 - Scripts: 5
Fifth - Matthew Taylor TAS: 3.26 - Scripts: 5

Round 5  scores Final

1 Off Grid by John Staats (JEStaats)  writing as A Prime Customer - Top Score, Top Everything
2 Unforeseen Changes by Frank MacCrory (FrankM)  writing as Loyal Subject
3 Husks by Zack Akers (Zack)  writing as Anonymous 70
4 Loophole by Paul Knauer (PKCardinal)  writing as Anonymoust 75
5 A New Present by Warren Duncan (Warren)  writing as Somebody I Used To Know
6 Close Encounters of the Nerd Kind by Gary Howell (Hawkeye)  writing as Richard Doofus
7 The Cold Invasion by Rene Claveau (ReneC)  writing as A Fellow Human
8 SimplyScript Fest by Javier Torregrosa (jayrex)  writing as Dr. Draper
9 A Message of Hope by Matthew Taylor (Matthew Taylor)  writing as I Wish I Was Asleep
10 The Bridge by Anthony Cawood (AnthonyCawood)  writing as Wells Farrago- Top Criteria
11 To the Poor by Alex Brauck (PrussianMosby)  writing as Carson Sawmill- Top Criteria
12 Duel in the Desert by Joe Garza (SPQR)  writing as Hermann Buhl- Top Criteria

Round 4  scores Final

1 Redemption by Warren Duncan (Warren) Top Average Score, Top Character, Prose, Dialogue, Meets Criteria
2 Sanctuary by Paul Knauer (PKCardinal) Top Story, Top Meets Criteria
3 Black Mamba by Rene Claveau (ReneC) Top Meets Criteria
4 Saints and Sinners by John Staats (JEStaats) Top Meets Criteria
5 Crucified by Gary Howell (Hawkeye) Top Meets Criteria
6 Deities of the Apocalypse by Matthew Taylor (Matthew Taylor) Top Meets Criteria
7 A Place of Worship by Anthony Cawood (AnthonyCawood)
8 Skate The Church by Alex Brauck (PrussianMosby) Top Meets Criteria
9 The Fool by Joe Garza (SPQR)
10 Card Chase by Frank MacCrory (FrankM) Top Meets Criteria
11 Circle of Greed by Steve McDonell (stevie) Top Meets Criteria
12 Street Cinema by Richard D. Kinsella (Scar Tissue Films)
13 Red Wedding by Dena McKinnon (paleyellow)
14 Deciphering Fenn by Javier Torregrosa (jayrex)
15 A Warrior's Anguish by Zack Akers (Zack)


Round 3 Tentative scores Final

1 3 Hail Marys by Paul Knauer (PKCardinal)Top Ave Score, Top Story, Character, Dialoge, Prose
2 The Red Weed by Rene Claveau (ReneC)Top Meets Criteria
3 The Belly of the Beast by Warren Duncan (Warren)
4 Mayday by Anthony Cawood (AnthonyCawood)
5 Spore by Richard D. Kinsella (Scar Tissue Films)Top Meets Criteria
6 Spores by kevin lenihan (leitskev)Top Meets Criteria
7 Terror From The Sky by Zack Akers (Zack)
8 Ghost Plane by Matthew Taylor (Matthew Taylor)Top Meets Criteria
9 What Would You Do...? by L. Chambers (LC)
10 Ungodliness by John Staats (JEStaats)Top Meets Criteria
11 Out of the Mist by Gary Howell (Hawkeye)Top Meets Criteria
12 A Liver Short by Alex Brauck (PrussianMosby)
13 From the Light to the Sheyd by Frank MacCrory (FrankM)
14 A Dark Reflection by Joe Garza (SPQR)Top Meets Criteria
15 Payload by Steve McDonell (stevie)Top Meets Criteria
16 Virus by Javier Torregrosa (jayrex)Top Meets Criteria
17 Reaper's Disease by Hank Biro (henb)
18 Paradise Airlines by Jeff Bush (Dreamscale)


Round 2 Tentative scores final

1 Rats of a Feather by Warren Duncan (Warren)
2 Coming Up Roses by L. Chambers (LC)
3 Dating in the Future World by Richard D. Kinsella (Scar Tissue Films)
4 An Abandoned Mine, a Golden Chalice and a Beast Named Blondie by Paul Knauer (PKCardinal)
5 The Quest for the Red Boat by Rene Claveau (ReneC)
6 Rats by Gary Howell (Hawkeye)
7 The Rat Pack by John Staats (JEStaats)
8 The Foul Case of the Feculent Fiend by Anthony Cawood (AnthonyCawood)
9 Underneath The Streets Of New York by Jeff Bush (Dreamscale)
10 Henry Schmidt: A Tosher's Tale by Matthew Taylor (Matthew Taylor)
11 Whistle While You Twerk by Zack Akers (Zack)
12 Agent Eleven: Operation Shitstorm by David González (Philostrate)
13 shIT by Steve McDonell (stevie)
14 Crappy Job by Frank MacCrory (FrankM)
15 Not It by Kevin Lenihan (leitskev)
16 The Wait by Khamanna Iskandarova (khamanna)
17 Cindy Tucker, Sewage Queen by Alex Brauck (PrussianMosby)
18 Whistling in the Dark by Joe Garza (SPQR)
19 Gym Coaches Blow by Hank Biro (henb)
20 If I Had A Whistle by Javier Torregrosa (jayrex)


Round 1 Scores.

1  Bobble-ageddon by Matthew Taylor (Matthew Taylor) Top Ave. Score
2  Melt by Richard D. Kinsella (Scar Tissue Films) Top Ave. Criteria/Story
3  Tucker & Doctor Daleman vs. Crazy by Warren Duncan (Warren)
4  Just Stop by Gary Howell (Hawkeye) Top Ave. Dialogue/Prose
5  I'm Being Watched by David González (Philostrate)
6  Dr. Schnederly, Mobile Psychiatrist by Paul Knauer (PKCardinal) Top Ave. Character
7  Bugs by kevin lenihan (leitskev)
8  Head Space by Anthony Cawood (AnthonyCawood)
9  Bobblelution by Steve McDonell (stevie) Top Ave. Criteria (tie)
10  A Head Full of Lightning by Joe Garza (SPQR)
11  Virtual Vengeance Container by Alex Brauck (PrussianMosby)
12  Treatment by Rene Claveau (ReneC)
13  The Doc is Out by John Staats (JEStaats)
14  The Package by Zack Akers (Zack)
15  Sprung by Hank Biro (henb)
16  Head Case by Pete Lane (Pete B. Lane)
17  Never Know what you'll Get by Jeff Bush (Dreamscale)
18  Where Did He Touch You? by Javier Torregrosa (jayrex)
19  Daddy by Khamanna Iskandarova (khamanna)
20  Image Problem by Frank MacCrory (FrankM)

No names? Are we not revealing after each round?

Are the names being withheld until the final scorecards are submitted?

Mine is exactly where I expected it to be.  

Quoted from ReneC Are the names being withheld until the final scorecards are submitted? Mine is exactly where I expected it to be.

Top of the pile?

Quoted from Warren Top of the pile?

Heck no. Not this round either.

Quoted from ReneC Heck no. Not this round either.

So, you're just waiting to crush us. Very strategic of you.

Quoted from PKCardinal So, you're just waiting to crush us. Very strategic of you.

That's definitely his plan!

What? The Doc Is Out is 13th? That's crazy

Quoted from khamanna What? The Doc Is Out is 13th? That's crazy

I'll tell you what's even crazier - Never Know What You'll Get, soon to be retitled as The Ballad Of Pun-Li, with a logline of...

The lengths a Japanese...or Chinese woman will go through to rekindle her relationship with her sweet, little daughter, Sun-Li, are...well, quite shocking, to say the least.

Quoted from PKCardinal So, you're just waiting to crush us. Very strategic of you.

I’m just glad I can participate. Even with the 72 hours, I only get 4-5 hours of writing. If I can squeeze in more time, watch out! That fifth place is mine!

Quoted from ReneC Mine is exactly where I expected it to be.

Mine is actually a couple places higher than I expected.

I feel that the Titan of the round, the Leviathan that walked, the Gigantomorph of a script that was 'Melt' was brought down by the rabid, mangy dogs biting at its majestic ankles.  

Some of these have not placed where I expected them to be... shows what I know.

I need to know if my writers guesses were correct

Quoted from Scar Tissue Films I feel that the Titan of the round, the Leviathan that walked, the Gigantomorph of a script that was 'Melt' was brought down by the rabid, mangy dogs biting at its majestic ankles.

Wow, not quite my feelings on the script but glad you enjoyed it.

Quoted from Matthew Taylor I need to know if my writers guesses were correct

Some of them definitely are, I just know it.

How many you got this round? I'm up to 4 so far.

Quoted from Warren Some of them definitely are, I just know it. How many you got this round? I'm up to 4 so far.

Only 2 that I'm certain of, another 3 I have reasonable guesses - A sixth writer I am certain wrote 1 of 2 scripts... But I can't decide which lol

I placed where I thought I’d be.  I chanced it.  I knew the fusion part didn’t go well but submitted anyway.

Quoted from Scar Tissue Films I feel that the Titan of the round, the Leviathan that walked, the Gigantomorph of a script that was 'Melt' was brought down by the rabid, mangy dogs biting at its majestic ankles.

Based on the above, I'd like to add another guess to my list of who wrote what

Quoted from Matthew Taylor Based on the above, I'd like to add another guess to my list of who wrote what

That was one of my guesses based on his review of the script, but I wasn't sure.

So will we get the standings for each round's scripts so we can see how well/bad we did compared to everyone else or will the scores just keep adding on each round?

Be good if we could have individual round standings, it's like a mini OWC every week.

Not sure if that would be more work, but just thought it would be cool to see

I didn't finish is last place!? Dammit.

Quoted from Warren So will we get the standings for each round's scripts so we can see how well/bad we did compared to everyone else or will the scores just keep adding on each round? Be good if we could have individual round standings, it's like a mini OWC every week. Not sure if that would be more work, but just thought it would be cool to see

I agree, it would be helpful to know where each script stood in addition to overall tournament standings.

Obviously we now know how we finished in round one. I’m curious whether some writers will be dissuaded from continuing after, e.g., round three if they finished near the bottom each round. There’s really no potential for them to move up to the top five. I guess the only incentive at that point is to try and get an entry in and work on your writing.

My guess is there will be some dropouts occurring with each round after this one.

Quoted from Gary in Houston Obviously we now know how we finished in round one. I’m curious whether some writers will be dissuaded from continuing after, e.g., round three if they finished near the bottom each round. There’s really no potential for them to move up to the top five. I guess the only incentive at that point is to try and get an entry in and work on your writing. My guess is there will be some dropouts occurring with each round after this one.

You can't keep me down! Although, based off the reviews, my second round script is even worse. Oh well. I expected as much. Comedy is not my genre of choice.

Quoted from Zack You can't keep me down! Although, based off the reviews, my second round script is even worse. Oh well. I expected as much. Comedy is not my genre of choice.

"I get knocked down, but I get up again, ain't never gonna keep me down" - dammit, got it stuck in my head now

I'm 99.99% sure I have guessed yours correctly for the first round, it was one of those that shocked me with where it placed... it received amongst the highest scores in my scoring

Just keeping you guys up to date: still going through the scores right now. The front page will be updated when I do. At that time, the writers' names will be released. Sorry for the delay.

You know, I didn't expect to be on the top for round one (and now, not for round two either) but, holy shit, I'm a little shocked where I ended up. Damn depressing, actually. Oh well, endeavor to persevere. Never give up, never surrender.

Quoted from JEStaats You know, I didn't expect to be on the top for round one (and now, not for round two either) but, holy shit, I'm a little shocked where I ended up. Damn depressing, actually. Oh well, endeavor to persevere. Never give up, never surrender.

Remember, there might be a small spread across some of the scores. A single point might make a difference, especially in the lower half of the standings.

Quoted from JEStaats You know, I didn't expect to be on the top for round one (and now, not for round two either) but, holy shit, I'm a little shocked where I ended up. Damn depressing, actually. Oh well, endeavor to persevere. Never give up, never surrender.

Don't feel bad. At least you've got some company at the bottom.

Quoted from JEStaats You know, I didn't expect to be on the top for round one (and now, not for round two either) but, holy shit, I'm a little shocked where I ended up. Damn depressing, actually. Oh well, endeavor to persevere. Never give up, never surrender.

I'd say "privileged to have you near mine" but I know you're much higher. But I'm guessing this one of mine still did better than the second one.

Well, I don't agree with the ratings this time anyway. So, there! And #10 entry was brilliant, too. Almost as good as Doctor is Out. I gave it all 5's.

Someone turned in a scoresheet, so the standings have changed a bit. I'm now one spot closer to where I expected to be.

I'm surprised with how closely my own scores reflect the standings, with three exceptions...

I'm shocked that Head Space came in 8th. That was in my top 5.

Sprung and The Package were in my top 10, I'm really surprised to see them so far down the list.

I had Head Case up there too but who knows where that one would have ended up.

How is Bobble-ageddon not tied for top criteria? Who didn't think that counted as a comedy and a sci-fi?

Quoted from FrankM How is Bobble-ageddon not tied for top criteria? Who didn't think that counted as a comedy and a sci-fi?

Maybe they didn't notice the giant bobblehead statue heading for Earth

List has been updated. It's not a fully-cleaned up update, because I have to leave for work, but the information is now 100% accurate for the first round. Scores will not be posted until the end. Feel free to discuss your scripts by name. Sorry for the delays.

Number 14! I'm Andy Dalton. Wait... Fuck.  

Great, now I can’t remember where each script placed, so still really don’t know who wrote what. But congrats to Matthew!

I really don't know how any of these scripts could rise. Not a single one stood out. There were maybe 3 that should be on the bottom, and then 17 swings and misses. Not surprising, this was hard. And I worked hard reading these, going back to ones I may have misjudged. I thought the one with the bobblehead husband and shrink kind of stood out, great metaphor and very good dialog. But it also didn't really try to meet the criteria, unless you count carving the dolls at the end. So for me, this was 17 B minuses and 3 C minuses. A good exercise, you never know when quick work is going to just magically come together.

Not exactly shocked with where I ended up, given that I rushed something in just to not have straight 1s. Not saying it was a pisser... it was a real effort, just not one with enough time to get it right.

Hopefully it didn't earn straight 1s.

Congrats, Matt! Didn't see that coming!

Bobble-ageddon and Tucker & Doctor Daleman vs. Crazy were my top picks, glad to see them up there.

Melt and Just Stop were pretty good too.

Congrats all, tough challenge on criteria and getting something done in 3 days... great fun!

(and thanks Rene!)

I guess I didn't score as high as I thought I would, and have quite a bit of ground to make up.

How do i change my title and logline?

Quoted from Dreamscale How do i change my title and logline?

Wait until the sci-fi round, write in a time machine, and use that to alter the original submission.

Easy peasy.

Yeah good stuff Matty.  Lol it’s uncanny how we had very similar titles :

Quoted from FrankM Wait until the sci-fi round, write in a time machine, and use that to alter the original submission. Easy peasy.

OK, good idea.

Congrats Matthew! Well and truly time to get rid of the disclaimer


Really happy with my placement, still very much in the mix.

Quoted from Warren Same thing Sean said, let's do this... Never Know what you’ll Get – Jeff The Package – Zack Virtual Vengeance Container– Alex Melt – Richard Sprung - henb

Nailed it, how did you go Matt?

Thanks ppl - Was unexpected, and I fear, undeserved - There were stronger entries.
Will give me a boost for the inevitable point losses in the second round though lol

Quoted from Matthew Taylor Let's do this Warren! Tha Package - Zack Head Space - Anthony Cawood Dr Schnederly - PKCardinal Just Stop - Hawkeye I'm Being Watched - Philostrate Virtual Vengeance Container - Warren (Although you just guessed someone else, so I must be wrong) The Doc is out - JEStaats Never Know what you'll get - Dreamscale Where did he touch you - Jayrex Sprung - Henb

Only 1 wrong lol - Annoyingly I had yours correct for ages and then changed at the last minute

Quoted from Matthew Taylor Thanks ppl - Was unexpected, and I fear, undeserved - There were stronger entries. Will give me a boost for the inevitable point losses in the second round though lol Only 1 wrong lol - Annoyingly I had yours correct for ages and then changed at the last minute

You're a guessing machine!

Just read yours, Warren. Wish I had before. Great job.
I also had a live Bobblehead in a draft of what I would have put up for this round, if I'd had time.  
Nicely horrific.  

Quoted from Philostrate Bobble-ageddon and Tucker & Doctor Daleman vs. Crazy were my top picks, glad to see them up there.

Thanks, mate. I really enjoyed yours as well. Just need to change that last scene and you'll have a great little short all round. Glad to see you up the top as well. I think your writing has come a long way

Quoted from LC Just read yours, Warren. Wish I had before. Great job. I also had a live Bobblehead in a draft of what I would have put up for this round, if I'd had time.   Nicely horrific.

I'm almost sure you would have picked me if you did read it. And thanks, appreciate it

Quoted from Matthew Taylor I'm 99.99% sure I have guessed yours correctly for the first round, it was one of those that shocked me with where it placed... it received amongst the highest scores in my scoring

Seems like you had me pegged from the start. Thanks for the high praise. I think you were the only one who really enjoyed it.

Really liked Bobble-geddon. It deserves top marks. Good stuff, Dude.

Quoted from Warren It’s a true testament to the fact that story will override writing

I don't think this is a testament to that. This is a testament to how the scoring is set up.

In a production setting, the producers wouldn't score scripts like this and pick the best one. Also, Jeff's script wasn't written very well. There were lots of technical issues I could have picked on if so inclined.

Quoted from DustinBowcot I don't think this is a testament to that. This is a testament to how the scoring is set up. In a production setting, the producers wouldn't score scripts like this and pick the best one. Also, Jeff's script wasn't written very well. There were lots of technical issues I could have picked on if so inclined.

I was being overly dramatic for the sake of it. But I do think there is truth to it as well. I think most people know I don't completely believe that myself, just look at any one of my reviews.

I cant see how the script would have done any better with any other scoring system, but that's also a personal taste thing. Some people seemed to like it.

The point I was trying to make is that he bangs on about all these technicalities of screenwriting but he fails to deliver time and again in the story department, and at the end of the day that what hurts him. Scripts that weren't as well written scored better and I think that's because they had better characters, stories, and met the criteria better.

Sometimes the best teachers don't make the best writers. You're free to take his advice or not. It's just his way of delivery and he does help people. Also, he's entertaining.

Quoted from stevie Yeah good stuff Matty.  Lol it’s uncanny how we had very similar titles :

I expected more bobble related titles to be honest...

Bobbleween
Nightmare on Bobble Street
Bobble Wars
The Bobble Witch Project
Bobble Runner
Guardians of the Bobble

... I spent most of the weekend trying to work bobble into a title

Quoted from DustinBowcot Sometimes the best teachers don't make the best writers. You're free to take his advice or not. It's just his way of delivery and he does help people. Also, he's entertaining.

I agree, but I don't necessarily think that applies here. Giving advise involves pointing out what is wrong (or thought to be wrong) and offering a correct way or better way to do something, how else would someone learn from their mistake? Jeff very rarely does that. He talks a lot about helping writers but that's not what I see. I'm sorry, but I see a bully who tears writers down at every opportunity. Others don't have to agree, this is just my opinion.

He will point something out like --

Quoted Text Wow...WTF?  The opening here is just terrible and oh so wrong.  You know why? First of all, how can you begin with a Flashback?  What are you flashing back from? Secondly, don't put "FLASHBACK" in your Slug.  It needs it's own line to "BEGIN" and "END".  That way, you can have multiple scenes (Slugs) in your Flashback. Now, we have a character we haven't met yet, doing a VO?  Oh man...not good. And, now a 5 line passage.  In literally any reading situation other than this, where scoring is by categories, meaning, I cannot quit, I would have baled by now. WOW...now we have "FLASHBACK CONT'D" in the Slug.  Unreal.  Just read above how to format a Flashback and make it easy on yourself.  Please. And, now we get, "THE PRESENT" in a Slug?  Do you like this way this looks?  Seriously, do you?  I sure don't. Love the "we see" passage ending in a lovely orphan to close out the humorless 1st page. 2 full pages and I think there's been 1 attempt at humor.  This is not comedy, as there's really no attempt to make it a comedy. Oh fuck...another Flashback?  I'm so tempted to stop reading. I'm sorry, but this is just simply not good.  It's awkwardly written and formatted, there's no story, and the few attempts at humor are complete misses. Wow...Page 4 is almost completely dialogue, and it ain't good dialogue. Who is "Alex"? WTF is going on now?  Complete tonal shift.  Giant rats?  Rats that explode when shot?  This is really bad, sorry to say Ending makes ZERO SENSE. Story - Very, very weak, and completely unbelievable. Characters - Not good. Dialogue - Not good. Prose - Not at all good. Criteria - You get 5 points.  You should feel very lucky.

-- but then offers no advise. He doesn't have to and it's a free site, but he proclaims to be about helping writers, he clearly isn't. How is he helping? He even says if he didn't have to read he would quite, wouldn't someone that wanted to help keep reading and point out the issues so the writer can better their craft - well no he wouldn't because that's not what he is trying to do.

I know a lot of people don't like my reviewing style either, but for the most part I will say I don't like something, and then offer what I think is the correct way or a better way to do it (the writer can agree or disagree and use what they want, or not, no skin off my back either way). Sure I don't always do that, it's not my job, but for the most part I definitely do. The difference is I also don't proclaim to be an expert who is 'helping writers'. I do it because that is the give and take nature of the site. Great writers on this site have moulded me into the writer I am today, and I do think I should attempt to give something back to SS.

I'm not entirely sure the recipient of the above review would agree that it was entertaining.

I blocked Jeff because his opinion means nothing to me, and he has nothing to offer me as a writer. I do think Jeff, as a large contributor to the site, is worth discussing though, but that's because people need to know that there is life after a bashing from him, and to not take any of it to heart, because at the end of the day they are probably still better writers, maybe not technically, but better storytellers, and that's damn important.

I think it's worth defining what I think a great script is, as you and I have disagreed what makes a well written script. For me a script that I can read from start to finish and not be taken out of the read is a good script. That doesn't mean it needs to be technically perfect, that means it needs to be engaging. Sure I point out a lot of minuscule issues in scripts, that's because that's the way I review and that's what I like to do. That doesn't automatically mean it's a bad script. I can point 20 things out and it could still be a brilliant script, it's just my way.

With effort and determination, anybody can learn to be a technically good writer. I barely passed English, I can't spell for shit, and grammarly is my best friend. I have learnt a lot of grammar stuff here and through my own learning to become a better writer as well but all in all I've always struggled. I also read a ton of screenwriting books and a ton of scripts, I taught myself to write. But the storytelling aspect of it, I don't necessarily think is teachable. Maybe the way stories are structured, and the common tropes of certain stories, but at the end of the day it's all about what goes on in your head.

So I don't see the point in Jeff bashing writers for technical stuff and talking to them like pieces of garbage. Help them if you want to, or point them in the right direction, it's that easy.

Quoted from Matthew Taylor I expected more bobble related titles to be honest... Bobbleween Nightmare on Bobble Street Bobble Wars The Bobble Witch Project Bobble Runner Guardians of the Bobble ... I spent most of the weekend trying to work bobble into a title

Lol great options!  I’m a big fan of one word title scripts   Bobbleution came pretty quick   I asked my daughter for other ideas but she declined lol

People always disagree regarding reviewing style... but, honestly, a writer needs to be strong and believe in themselves. No matter the delivery, or what a review says. A review with good intentions can be more damaging than an honest one that bluntly says what they think is wrong. Sometimes the writer deserves a bashing... like Frank in round 1.

Also, these are always just one opinion... at least with Jeff, you know you're going to get his honest feelings. He's always been good to my scripts when they've deserved it.

Quoted from DustinBowcot People always disagree regarding reviewing style... but, honestly, a writer needs to be strong and believe in themselves. No matter the delivery, or what a review says. A review with good intentions can be more damaging than an honest one that bluntly says what they think is wrong. Sometimes the writer deserves a bashing... like Frank in round 1. Also, these are always just one opinion... at least with Jeff, you know you're going to get his honest feelings. He's always been good to my scripts when they've deserved it.

I think for the most part we will have to agree to disagree, and that's fine by me.

Quoted from DustinBowcot Sometimes the writer deserves a bashing... like Frank in round 1.

I have a pretty thick skin for this sort of thing, the feedback for the technical writing I do for work is usually blistering, unfair, and often both.

But to nitpick just a bit... no one is being paid here, but most would like to be paid for their writing at some point. Therefore it behooves people to act professionally: bash the work, not the author.

Taking that to an extreme twists your review into knots (after all, it's clearer to say the writer made this mistake than to say the script contains this mistake), so sprinkle in some of that rarest of commodities... common sense.

Edit: Also, round 2 script is faring better. This is an extremely low bar, but I'll take it

Quoted from FrankM Therefore it behooves people to act professionally: bash the work, not the author.

That's definitely true. We should be reviewing the scripts, not the writers. Any comments towards the writer makes it personal and judgmental, and we can't really judge a person based on the script we read.

Like when I reviewed Jeff's round 1 script, I called it racist and sexist. Jeff, you took that personally, but I was commenting what I saw on the page. I don't know if you are sexist or racist, I highly doubt it, but the pages speak for themselves. Whether that was your intention or not, whether it was a choice or not, I can't say and haven't given another thought to.

Frank... I meant it only in that you're usually a good writer... so when you do something bad, does it really hurt to bash you a little for it? I didn't mean it as in trying to crush a writer's will to write.

Obviously, a newbie, or somebody not as forum-savvy as yourself should never be bashed on a personal level. It just wouldn't be taken in the same spirit.

Congrats to those who finished at the top or near it and encouragement to all for round II.

In terms of the theme on critical comments....My opinion ---

Rude comments should not be conflated with honest (frank) comments. One can be quite frank and objective without being mean. The warning signs I see in this regard are:

Confusing what a writer has done with the writer's motive or character.

Okay to say the first header is not formatted correctly because...(insert whatever)

Not quite okay to take that objective thing and conclude that the writer is (insert appropriate insult here, e.g., lazy). Because the reviewer has no way of knowing. The writer could have busted their ass try to right it in the best way possible.

Hyperbolic errors

Taking a technical issue or perhaps a series of technical issues and over stating their relative importance. e.g.,  You didn't CAP your character when intro'd - the writing is terrible!.

To me, empathy is always a good thing to have in the tool box. To me when you see a crappy script, keep the honest feedback, but throttle down on the diatribe. You know the writer was struggling. And there never is the need to insult. I mean - what objective is being served??? Does "It's stupid not to put a time in your header" provide any more value than - "You need to put a time in your header."??

Now, I do agree that writers should not demand any requirements in the critiques they receive. It's free. Have the backbone to take it or leave it.  That being said, that does not make it ideal for reviewers to review in a hostile manner. We can have both.  Writers accepting criticism for what it is AND no mean-spirited reviews. It really isn't that hard.

Some good counterbalancing points there. Very insightful. Thanks, Dave.

Quoted from DustinBowcot Some good counterbalancing points there. Very insightful. Thanks, Dave.

Thanks, mate.

I think that a good script will make the reader swallow all of his "bad writing" comments and make him mark accordingly. If a script fails to do so it's a writer's fault.

We just need to learn to take it. Some writers can't because they started with good scripts. They  have more of a talent I guess. So what? Those writers still have a long road to go. Try to match up to someone better. There's usually always someone better out there.

So, the bottomline is - oh, just take it.

Reviews should be given with a goal of being constructive to the writer. Slamming a script absolutely can be constructive...but the reviewer should at least keep the goal of being constructive in mind. This is a forum for writers. It's important to help writers improve, not to make them quit or leave the forum in search of more constructive pastures.

An exercise like an OWC can make it hard for us to do this because we're reading multiple scripts, all of them raw and forced into weird parameters. So I'm sure almost everyone of us has left remarks that could have been more tactfully worded.

As far as Jeff, I first encountered him in 2011 when I joined. He was as brutally frank in his opinions then as now. He was also the only person willing to get to know me and give honest feedback. And it was extremely helpful.

He's not going to change. The things that bothered him about scripts 10 years ago still bother him. The script issues he focuses on might strike some of us as obsessive, but he's judged every script he's read in at least 10 years exactly the same way. He's not playing favorites. A writer has to take his notes, like anyone's and decide what he agrees with and what he doesn't. It can be maddening at times! lol But it has a value.

All great points.

If anyone gets offended by or thinks something I have written is harsh and not in the spirit of things then please call me out on it as I most likely don't realize I'm doing it... I'm terrible at human interaction which is why I hide away and write

Quoted from Warren Thanks, mate. I really enjoyed yours as well. Just need to change that last scene and you'll have a great little short all round. Glad to see you up the top as well. I think your writing has come a long way

Thanks, Warren. I really appreciate the words. I still have a long way to go, but every little step is a step closer.

Quoted from DustinBowcot Frank... I meant it only in that you're usually a good writer... so when you do something bad, does it really hurt to bash you a little for it?

I am continually impressed with the mostly-fully-formed stories that OWC regulars churn out on demand; my vomit drafts seem... vomittier. Hopefully it’s something I can get better at.

Quoted from leitskev Reviews should be given with a goal of being constructive to the writer. Slamming a script absolutely can be constructive...but the reviewer should at least keep the goal of being constructive in mind. This is a forum for writers. It's important to help writers improve, not to make them quit or leave the forum in search of more constructive pastures. An exercise like an OWC can make it hard for us to do this because we're reading multiple scripts, all of them raw and forced into weird parameters. So I'm sure almost everyone of us has left remarks that could have been more tactfully worded. As far as Jeff, I first encountered him in 2011 when I joined. He was as brutally frank in his opinions then as now. He was also the only person willing to get to know me and give honest feedback. And it was extremely helpful. He's not going to change. The things that bothered him about scripts 10 years ago still bother him. The script issues he focuses on might strike some of us as obsessive, but he's judged every script he's read in at least 10 years exactly the same way. He's not playing favorites. A writer has to take his notes, like anyone's and decide what he agrees with and what he doesn't. It can be maddening at times! lol But it has a value.

Constructive is a nice ideal.  Some peeps misinterpret it as pandering - it's not. It's just giving advice in a non-destructive manner.

Being "frank" is fine. I've never understood the benefit of being brutally frank when just being frank gets the job done.  It's a weak move, IMO.  

Quoted from Matthew Taylor If anyone gets offended by or thinks something I have written is harsh and not in the spirit of things then please call me out on it as I most likely don't realize I'm doing it... I'm terrible at human interaction which is why I hide away and write

Your reviews across the board have stood out to me these two rounds. Some excellent advice. I read a script, write a review, check the other reviews... boom, there you are... me: "That's a great point." It's happening consistently.

So, I'd say... keep on keeping on.

Oh, and great first round script for you. Well done. Can't wait to see which is yours this round.

Quoted from eldave1 Constructive is a nice ideal.  Some peeps misinterpret it as pandering - it's not. It's just giving advice in a non-destructive manner. Being "frank" is fine. I've never understood the benefit of being brutally frank when just being frank gets the job done.  It's a weak move, IMO.

Absolutely.

I've mentioned here that I participate in the NYC Midnight contests. Those paid judges break it down this way: "what the judges liked", then "what the judges think needs work". That works very well. I try to follow that model when I can, though the rapid read format for these challenges doesn't always allow it. But if there's something the writer has done well, why not try to find it and mention it? LC does a fantastic job of that here.

Jeff's method COULD scare off a new writer. But it didn't scare me off, and I was new when I came here. And my scripts were far worse in format than anything here now. He ripped me so many new ones I was like a walking crap shower. But I think once people realize he's doing that to almost every script they can live with it.

Man, I do some real work for a few hours, come back here, and there I am again, being tossed back and forth.

Same old, same old discussion here.

What I find absolutely amazing and appalling at the same time is the staggering amount of reviews where many negatives are thrown out about the completely illogical and boring story, then something to the affect, "But, don't worry, I'll grade you down the middle."

We have so many "stories" this round that are completely shoehorning in a sewer...because...well, they have to.  Yet, I bet they're receiving fairly high scores (a high score to me is 3 and over), when they should be getting 1's and 2's across the board.

We'll see come Friday, but I'm pretty sure, just as I was correct in Round 1 scoring.

Quoted from Dreamscale Man, I do some real work for a few hours, come back here, and there I am again, being tossed back and forth. Same old, same old discussion here. What I find absolutely amazing and appalling at the same time is the staggering amount of reviews where many negatives are thrown out about the completely illogical and boring story, then something to the affect, "But, don't worry, I'll grade you down the middle." We have so many "stories" this round that are completely shoehorning in a sewer...because...well, they have to.  Yet, I bet they're receiving fairly high scores (a high score to me is 3 and over), when they should be getting 1's and 2's across the board. We'll see come Friday, but I'm pretty sure, just as I was correct in Round 1 scoring.

Not to worry. If a person grades every script, then it comes out in the wash. My worst script might grade a 14, yours a 5. Same script would still be at the bottom of our respective piles.

(Not saying my worst script is a 14... it's purely a hypothetical.)

Quoted from eldave1 Being "frank" is fine. I've never understood the benefit of being brutally frank when just being frank gets the job done.  It's a weak move, IMO.

Maybe I should change my screen name to BrutallyFrank

Quoted from FrankM Maybe I should change my screen name to BrutallyFrank

But why, when just being Frank gets the job done?

Quoted from FrankM Maybe I should change my screen name to BrutallyFrank

or Perfectlyfrank